Cut Gabe Gross Now!

by Japhei on Feb 22, 2009 12:05 PM EST Comment 55 comments

What was the Rays front office thinking when they cut Jonny Gomes and kept Gabe Gross? What were they thinking when they traded our 14 game winner Edwin Jackson for a RF with similiar yet better skills and then signing Gross for over a million dollars? What were they thinking when they let Rocco go for less then what they paid Gross and Kapler? I know Pat Burrell is a upgrade but how much of a upgrade is he to the platoon of Hinske/Rocco/Floyd. To me the good does not outweigh the bad. We only got better at DH basically with no improvement to the RF scenario as long as Gross is out there.

Read this line and tell me if he even deserves a minor league offer.

Worst post season line ever

19 abs 7 k's, 1 h , .174 ops, .053 SLG , 174 OBP 0 HR no extra base hits and some of the worst defense I have ever seen in RF. It was like he was playing for the Phillies the whole game.

Can you say CHOKE artist.

Rocco has a .OPS of 804 and he hit some dramatic home runs and hits that counted. We could of resigned him for a simliar deal. Yet we hand out million dollar contracts to washed up journeymen relievers and outfielders who have somewhat decent seasons.

I think there is some huge concern to be made seeing as there are alot of irrational descisions being made in light of all the goodwill to the core players who got us to where we went.

The solution to all of this is to allow Matt Joyce to platoon with Gabe Kapler and hope for the best. There will be no improvement in RF as long as they keep running Gabriel Gross out there!

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Gabe gross doesn't really hurt with the bat and carries a good glove, while Jonny Gomes is not an OF, I don't see why you would think this.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Feb 22, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You must be new.

Please read the following links and take them into consideration before venturing further.

http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/5/709471/average-bad
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/9/715468/more-average-talk
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/15/725096/oh-dear#11496518

Thank you and welcome to our community.

by R.J. Anderson on Feb 22, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You are being kind, R.J.

by bobr on Feb 22, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure he's been around here for a while

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Feb 22, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

http://www.draysbay.com/2008/11/24/669204/church-for-jackson#10366672

There’s more where that came from. Best to just walk away.

NCAA Baseball Opening Day - Feb. 20th

by RATW on Feb 22, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did Gabe Gross take your mother out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again?

Seriously whats with the gabe hate. Do you really believe cutting him this instant is in the best interest of the team?

wait a second…..Jonny Gomes is that you?

by Sveet on Feb 23, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fire A-Rod! He sucks in the post-season.

Give Jeter more money! He’s clutch.

by Albertrayon on Feb 22, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Onion Draysbay style??

'talkin 'bout practice?

by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 22, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The point I am trying to make is

Why is everyone here so set on Matt Joyce going to the minors?

He is a better option then Gabe Gross.

Am I wrong?

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Feb 22, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not necessarily better

And if he is better than Gross at this point, he’s only a little better. But it makes more sense to start Joyce in the minors for a multitude of reasons:

- If he’s in the minors, he can play every day and work on his hitting against lefties, so maybe he eventually becomes an everyday player and not just a platoon player
- One more year until he becomes a free agent
- One more year until arbitration
- Works out a bit cheaper for the team this year
- Even if Joyce is better, he’s not much better, but he has the potential to become much better with more minor league seasoning

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Feb 22, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Precisely.

by bobr on Feb 22, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with you, gross is more of a bench player/Defensive replacement

TB Rays in 09!!!

by RaysOfHope on Feb 22, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes of course. And here are some other stat lines that indicate the teams should have

dumped these players’ sorry asses. They are their stat lines in their first World Series.

1. 22 ABs: .182/.250/.182 0 XBHs
2. 25 ABs: .200/.333/.200 0 XBHs
3. 20 ABs: .200/.238/.300
4. 18 ABs: .222/.364/.278
5. 19 ABs: .158/.200/.316
6. 16 ABs: .063/.118/.063 0 XBHs

And these are the players:
1. Willie Mays
2. Ted Williams
3. Ty Cobb
4. Stan Musial
5 & 6: Yogi Berra in his first two World Series.

Someone more modern? How about this line?
18 ABs: .111/.200/.278

That is what Albert Pujols did in his first taste of post-season play.

But let’s find a ballplayer closer to Gabe Gross’s type. Here is one, a lefty often used as a platoon outfielder. Good speed and a very honorable career in the majors. Al Bumbry played for 14 seasons and at age 33 made the all-star team and even came in 13th in the MVP voting. But many years he was a role player.

In his first taste of the post-season, he got just 7 ABs and hit .000/.222/.000. The next year he failed to get on base in just 1 AB. Overall, he played in 6 post season series and got 64 ABs with a final line of .141/.243/.203. Still, Earl Weaver considered him valuable enough to keep him on the Orioles for 13 years, even after his second full year when his season’s line was .233/.288/.304 with just 1 home run and 10 doubles at age 27.

One could go on and on with similar stories. (Irv Noren might be even more comparable.) It is simply nonsensical to focus on Gross’s admittedly terrible post-season to make any judgments about his value to the team.

And yes, you are wrong about Joyce, or rather you may be wrong. We know what Gross is, and it is unlikely he will develop further. He is a valuable platoon/bench player who can help a team win. But we hope that Joyce is much more. We hope that he is a future regular who can do well enough against lefties to play every day. To attain that stature though, he may need more seasoning in the minors to work on his weaknesses. So while the Rays have a useful lefty outfielder available in Gross, it may make sense to allow Joyce that opportunity rather than suffering with his ineptness against lefties in the majors or platooning him and so retarding his development. Of course, Joyce may prove he is ready during the spring, but the Rays do not anticipate that, and with good reason.

by bobr on Feb 22, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So does this mean that Gross is as good as Pujols?

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 23, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there any other possible interpretation?

But of course, neither can hold a candle to Brian Doyle.

by bobr on Feb 23, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice one!

by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 24, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally I thought this was the worst entire post-season these eyes have peeped

Click Here

Soriano 2003

I will always remember it for this Yankee fan that was going between fully passed out to semi-coherent on my couch during this playoff party I threw. He woke up after Soriano K’ed for the 17th time and said, “Soriano sucks, he sucks so dick.” He then passed back out but the rest of us kinda looked at each other and erupted in laughter. He went on to be just as shitty the rest of the playoffs. There are most likely worst post-seasons but this one I will always remember for how futile he looked. For the record Sori’s Slash that year was .290/.338/.525 for an OPS of .863, 38 HR’s, 35 SB’s. Surely, he carried many a fantasy team that year as an absolute stud, but the playoffs are a whole other animal.

Please take a moment to glance at the link above. It took a little bit of time, but I think you will see that clearly Soriano was pathetic.

Why yes, I am this big of an asshole in person.

by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Yea let’s cut Gross. And while you’re at it cut Aki too. He’s so average.

by Tommy Rancel on Feb 22, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I know Andrew Freidman is sooo stupid

I wish you were running the team Japhei

by Sveet on Feb 22, 2009 4:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

I smell a petition

Griffey come home

by Taylor H on Feb 23, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's fire up the petition to Freidman right now:

Sign Manny

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Feb 22, 2009 8:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree!!!

Also,
What the hell was the FO thinking when they sent Longoria down at the beginning of last year? That’s just busch league my friend.

9=2 apparently

by mrichardkent on Feb 22, 2009 9:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They shouldn't have tried to hold Kazmir out of the WBC, they hate their players.

by kericr on Feb 22, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They hate our wallets and our waterfronts.

by R.J. Anderson on Feb 22, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And babies. Poor, defenseless babies.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Feb 23, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They were asking for it.

by R.J. Anderson on Feb 23, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's some quality satire!

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Feb 23, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Gabe Gross Sucked during the regular season too. He plays ok RF and is a liability with the bat. Would you want him up in a big game again?

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Feb 23, 2009 12:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Your definition of "sucked" and "liability" aren't the same as ours.

Your baseline is far too high if an average player “sucked”. Newsflash: average players don’t suck, they’re quite valuable, especially when they’re paid less than market value.

Also Longoria was statistically less clutch than Gross. So actually, you’d rather have Gross up than Longoria if you think clutch is a skill.

by R.J. Anderson on Feb 23, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You make sense. As much sense as this

by kericr on Feb 23, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

is that newspaper article at the end really part of the cartoon?

by Sveet on Feb 23, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't stop suplexin' Gators

Hilarious

by Sveet on Feb 23, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't tell you for certain, but my guess is no

The Batman Animated Series has always been pretty serious; that paper on the other hand is downright absurd.

by kericr on Feb 23, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am curious.

Why do you choose to post this kind of stuff on this site? There are myriad sites available that thrive on emotional outbursts and at hurling indefensible positions at each other under the guise of “well, it’s my opinion.” And if you are desperate for the attention, there is always sports talk radio. That is a perfect home for this kind of nonsense.

The whole point of this site is to encourage conversation based on progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument. It seems to me that sort of atmosphere chokes you. It requires some effort to respond to other’s arguments, not simply to repeat your own assertions. If you are unable or unwilling to participate that way, why do so at all?

It’s as if you voluntarily join a science club and in all the discussions insist on reading the entrails of animals for omens that make your point.

by bobr on Feb 23, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And we have our mission statement.

The whole point of this site is to encourage conversation based on progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument.

by Tommy Rancel on Feb 23, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

New mission statement

The whole point of this site is to make outlandish claims based on omens read from the entrails of animals.

by Albertrayon on Feb 23, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

by mittens on Feb 26, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cue the freedom of speech argument in...3...2...1

by kericr on Feb 23, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well sir, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

by Sveet on Feb 23, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well actually, in this case

A freedom of speech argument is a straw man here, but I expect to see it anyway whenever anybody questions anybody else on saying things that don’t make sense.

In my eyes, yeah people can go ahead and express their opinions but they shouldn’t be surprised that over the course of time, their ignorant, uneducated opinions are met with increasingly vulgar, nasty, and prejudicially dismissive responses.

by kericr on Feb 23, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can start your own blog and have ALL the free speech you like...

Regressing to the mean streets of St. Pete

by stpetelawyer on Feb 23, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be clear,

I am not trying to limit her/his freedom to speak her/his mind, although the issue would not apply here anyway. I am simply wondering why s/he decides to post stuff on a site that is inimitable to the type of thinking expressed-not the points themselves but the reasoning (or lack thereof) behind it.

by bobr on Feb 23, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

exactly

props to people commenting on this thread for being relatively very kind to Japhei, you will usually get a lot more flack for posting arguments with more substantiated claims. (Also why cut Gross, at the least trade him if you feel that way)

'talkin 'bout practice?

by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 23, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I will give you Josh Butler for him.

BCB || Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Feb 23, 2009 7:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

here is my emotional outburst for keeping Gabe Gross

it was a hot June 1 day outside, but inside the Trop the game was heating up. The Rays were down by 2 runs to the White Sox in the bottom of the fifth. I was feeling pretty good about the Rays chances, they had 2 runners on, and then up steps Gabe Gross. I turn to my friends “Good God why does this guy have to come up to the plate now? He is useless”. He dropped the dynamite and hits a 2-run triple, ties the game. I shut my mouth for a while.

The game goes into extras, ole’ Gabe comes up again. I said it again, thought well there is no way luck could strike twice. He hits a walk-off, everyone goes home happy.

So I say keep Gabe Gross.

by free hotdogs on Feb 23, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

how about the 3 run bomb he hit against the Indians during that day game to tie it?

Also, during that game, he hit a zinger of a foul ball and it hit this a-hole of a guy next to me in the face… The man got smited!!!

needless to say, Gross won me over that day.

9=2 apparently

by mrichardkent on Feb 24, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That alone is reason to keep him. But on the bench.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Feb 24, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But on the bench.

Sure, against lefties.

Why yes, I am this big of an asshole in person.

by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 24, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

That is not a reason to keep him any more than the fact that I saw a game in which Tomas Perez went 5 for 5 with 4 doubles would have been a reason to keep him. And that was against the Yankees no less, and he went 3 for 4 the next day!

In any case, I am guessing that both free hotdogs and mrichardkent are kidding. Are you?

by bobr on Feb 24, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a reason to keep him.

I just like the man’s ability to pinpoint who should be hit with a foul ball. Also, I think he came very close to hitting the “cowbell” kid with the homer.

The real reason to keep him:

who else is going to play “blessed be the name” as their walk up song? Zobrist?

9=2 apparently

by mrichardkent on Feb 24, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, only kidding

at least about that being a reason to keep him. But I do enjoy reliving Gabe Gross moments…..thanks to mrrichardkent for reminding me of that other one.

by free hotdogs on Feb 25, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs