David Price: "My slider's gone away"
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 9:27 AM EDT
47 comments
We recapped David Price's outing last night. 2.1 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 3 K's. R.J. mentioned that while Price was still good, his fastball command wasn't great. It took Price 58 pitches to get through the 2.1 innings, but overall Price was happy with his stuff.
"I had real good stuff. I've worked on my changeup so much, my slider's gone away. It's something I'm going to have to get back." MLB.com
Well that's good to hear. The changeup we've all been talking about is coming along, but did he just say "my slider's gone away and it's something I'm going to have to get back "? That is definitely not good to hear. The slider might be Price's most important pitch since it is his out pitch. If Price is going to be the dominant starter we all imagine he will be, he's going to need to get all three pitches working simultaneously. He can't just be a fastball/slider or a fastball/changeup pitcher. For those who are screaming for Price to start in the Majors, this should serve as a wakeup call. Price is admitting that he does not have all his pitches developed like he needs them need to be.
Look, Price is great. We're not arguing how awesome he is. And yes, he is one of 
the five best starting pitchers in the organization, however, that does not mean we should throw his development out the window. I have no doubt that right now Price could be a nifty two pitch starter with a modest third offering, but without proper development we're risking the chance that that's all he'll ever be and really that would be a waste of talent. If at all possible, it is not smart to develop a pitcher at the major league level and the Rays have the option to avoid that. If the Rays front office feels that six weeks in Durham will make Price a complete pitcher, who can use and command three pitches effectively, then that is exactly what they should do.
Silverman: One of the positive byproducts of depth with pitching is that it also reduces the temptation to move guys ahead in the organization just because a slot may be available. It allows us to fully develop our pitchers, so that it benefits both them and us. You need patience with prospects, they don’t all develop at the same pace. --ESPN.com
People seem to be very short sighted on this issue. We need David Price in 2009; this is true, but we also need David Price to lead this rotation for the next 10 years. After James Shields, Scott Kazmir and Matt Garza are gone, we are still going to need Price to be that dominant figure in the rotation. You could say I hate the Rays and hate baseball, but if six weeks or so in Durham in 2009 can truly turn him in to a finished product, then six weeks in Durham in 2009 is what we should all be rooting for.
Photo By Dennis Adair
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It is very good to know we have a FO that is willing to send him to the minors.
When you look at a team like Detroit it makes me even more happy. IMO, they rushed Andrew Miller and now I hear Porcello is the leading candidate for their 5th starter. (If you can trust ESPN)
I’m now fully behind Price starting in the Minors for April and/or part of May.
www.milfhunter.com
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Mar 17, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why from reading that would anyone say you "hate the Rays and hate baseball"?
by davidsmarch on Mar 17, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haters are going to hate.
If you don’t have anyone to hate on, feel free to hate on me.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Mar 17, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's their job to hate.
dont sit back and say my hair aint luxurious when you know it is bitch
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
How can he be happy with his outing if he can’t command his slider? Come on Price!
And yes, his command so far makes it hard to keep fighting for him get a rotation spot. Hopefully he will be the Price we all know and love by May in the majors
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Mar 17, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is one positive and 5-6 negatives of him starting out at the big league level
He is not in the competition for 5th spot to start the season.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his No. 1 priority this spring is his change up
He hasn’t lost his slider, but because he’s been focusing so much on improving his change-up, some other areas have suffered. Essentially this is the cost of trying to prove he is ready to start in the majors on opening day. What this ultimately shows is he could use the time in the minors to put it all together. By the end of spring he will have a good feel for his change up and have confidence in that pitch. During the first few weeks in the minors he’ll be able to put all three pitches into practice until the Rays have a solid need for a #5 starter.
Price was happy with his outing because his change up has continued to improve. This is the only goal he has this spring. It was a challenge the Rays gave him. Here’s what Joe Maddon had to say in the same article: “He’s the kind of guy, once you lay out the challenge for him, he’s going to accept it and do something about it. And I think he has done a nice job with that to this point.”
by raysfaninminnesota on Mar 17, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching him briefly pitch last night....
His slider looked flat and without much tilt. In fact, there were a few pitches that I couldnt tell what they were….which rarely happens to me as I used to pitch and can easily tell by how it looks, or worst case looking at the speed of the pitch.
The game was on MLBTV and several of the pitches were in the upper 80’s and had little movement…but were definitely not fastballs. Lets hope it is just a “feel thing”, and he can find his slider again quickly.
by td32 on Mar 17, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He threw a couple nasty sliders to LaRoche early in the count
His first few pitches were 94-96 and he threw 2 good sliders and then it all just disappeared. I don’t recall seeing a changeup at all last night and his location was rather Edwin like
by Jason Collette on Mar 17, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont say such things
they hurt my soul
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Mar 17, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Carroll on Price's mechanics.
Humeral retroversion is an anatomical change in the body, where the head of the humerus, the "ball" that fits into the shoulder joint, actually changes as a result of use. This change allows for "greater external rotation which increases the range of shoulder motion to generate energy and therefore greater ball velocity." (The Athlete’s Shoulder by Andrews, Wilk, Reinold*) As seen in the picture of Price, his shoulder is "laying back" more, apparently both parallel to the slope of the mound and at a ninety degree angle to the line of the spine.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm beginning to hate the slider.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 17, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The slider is awesome. It looks like a fastball then falls off the planet. How can you hate such a beautiful thing?
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Mar 17, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's back came back to one of them and I'm confident Price and slider will work it out. They were made for each other.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Mar 17, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change-ups is the girl next door. It's the best match but you never notice it until it's too late.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 17, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah right I've hooked up with many a girl next door
you just gotta narrow your focus a little bit
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been known to bore in on occasion
as well as bring it high and hard
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not that worried about it
The way I took it is that he’s worked on his changeup so much that he probably hasn’t taken the proper time to get his slider in, and therefore, has lost his feel for it. Once he starts throwing it more often, I’m sure he’ll get it back.
Hello.
by killa3312 on Mar 17, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's how I took it as, but it also shows that he needs a little more time to get everything together.
I’m not worried that the slider is “gone” and it will never come back, I’m just saying give the guy the time he needs to get everything right.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was a proponent of starting Price in the majors
but his first two spring appearances show he still has a lot of work to do. He’ll be a good one, but I’m willing to give it time.
Hello.
by killa3312 on Mar 17, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm unconcered as well
This is spring training. This is what it’s there for. He’s still get probably 3 or 4 more appearances before it’s over then off too Durham. Essentially he’s got 2 months to get everything worked out before he comes to the show. Until he starts complaining about his elbow hurting, I’m not worried.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Mar 17, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ding Ding!
Essentially he’s got 2 months to get everything worked out before he comes to the show. Until he starts complaining about his elbow hurting, I’m not worried.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After Kaz and Garza are gone?
Kaz is about 16 mos older than Price
Garza <2 yrs older
Point is, these are not ‘aging veterans’ we’re talking about
by Raymondo on Mar 17, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Point is, Kaz has 3 years left on his contract and probably will be out of our contract range.
I believe Garza is arb eligible after this season so he’s going to start commanding some $$$
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Kaz and Garza leave
it’s because we won’t want them here any longer
Trying to look to far ahead is a bit risky
by Raymondo on Mar 17, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter what the reason is.
We all know we won’t be able to keep everybody together forever.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tommy, I have to disagree with you
Based on all the evidence you presented, as well as the track records this spring for Hammel and the Giant, I do not agree with the statement:
he is one of the five best starting pitchers in the organization
If he lost one of his pitches, he is most defiinitely not one of the five best SP’s. It logically follows that he is a one pitch pitcher right now, since his slider is now a work in progress, just like his change-up.
I would agree with your statement if you were to say he has the POTENTIAL to be one of the 5 best starters on the team.
by plasticman on Mar 17, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have the potential to be on of the best block quote users
by plasticman on Mar 17, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think that even with one plust pitch and two developing offerings, his stuff is better than Hammel
but, I also don’t think that means we bypass the rest of his development and rush him.
I’ve started to train myself to look at Niemann as a relief pitcher. Otherwise I’d say he is probably the fifth most complete starter.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus*
And I still feel the slider gives him two plus pitches, he’s just been concentrating so hard on the change-up that he’s neglected the slider a bit. Like Tyler said, just let him get the feel for everything and then bring him up.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in six weeks he'll be one of the best five SP's
could he work on the fly in the bigs? He’s got the composure for it, but why put that added pressure on him when you don’t need a 5th starter until around mid-may?
His slider is not a “work in progress”. It just needs to be thrown a little more to have a mid-season feel to it. He’s not doing that right now because he’s trying to work on his change up. He wants to be in the bigs. He has been told that in order to be in the bigs a change-up has to be a third pitch in his arsenal. So what is he doing? Working on his change up. All he admitted was there have been some short-term drawbacks while he’s been working on the pitch.
If Price comes away from spring training with confidence and a good feel on his change, then mission accomplished. He can then use his time in the minors to put all three pitches into practice and be ready for the majors in May.
by raysfaninminnesota on Mar 17, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long will it take?
If the Rays front office feels that six weeks in Durham will make Price a complete pitcher, who can use and command three pitches effectively, then that is exactly what they should do.
Twice in the article the 6 weeks timeframe is mentioned. Where is this coming from? Is this a guess? Is it based on his ’super-two time"?
For the Rays, I agree with him being sent down to improve his changeup and become a more polished pitcher. At least in April, the 5th starter is scheduled to go— in Balt, home v. Chicago, in Seattle and in Minny. Not the powerhouses of the AL.
by TheGrinch on Mar 17, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Based on a number of factors. Super two time, the need for a fifth starter in May, but nothing set it stone.
Truly, the Rays need to take all the time they need. If they don’t feel he’s ready in May and he comes up in June that’s ok.
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To postpone Super 2 status
Price would have to stay in Durham into June. Season clock doesn’t start until April 5, and he already has 31 service days. He’d need to cover those 31 plus at least 40 – 45 more, barring more time spent in the minors in the future. 75 service days missed would take him well into June.
I don’t think this is the issue for the org in this case – I really think the issue is his development. And with the need to keep or lose Niemann and Hammel, it’s probably a bonus that he works on things in AAA. I have a higher opinion on Hammel, and a lower one on Niemann, than most here. But I think both could be at least adequate until Price is ready.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 17, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it's not like he's gone smell blind
He just needs to throw it a little and next thing you know guys will be looking like J. D. Drew in the most important AB of his life.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
looking like J. D. Drew?
What they’ll have back problem?
by Tommy Rancel on Mar 17, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and not care about baseball
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Price and fastball command
He has always had some struggles with his fastball command. Its just always been so good that guys still swung at it. Watching him in the minors last season he was usually around the strikezone with it, but he often wouldn’t hit his spot. I think its probably best for him if he does head back to AAA and work on some things for a little bit.
by dougdirt on Mar 17, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not be harsh.
He did get the win, didn’t he?
by steve-o1285 on Mar 17, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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