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The Rays and Marlins: Attendance Trends over Time

When looking at some historical attendance data, I couldn't help but be surprised by the similarities between how the Rays and the Marlins have drawn over the years.  Take a look at this:

Attendance_medium


That's right, for the years that the Rays and Marlins have both been in existence, the Rays have outdrawn the Marlins for 8 out of 11 years.  And despite the Marlins' peak in 2004 and 2005, the Rays still have a higher average attendance over that time period: 17,913 per game to 17,054.  Given that the Marlins won the World Series in both 1997 and 2003, plus all the negative press dedicated to the Rays' poor attendance figures, I couldn't help but ask the obvious question: why?

 

Star-divide

To begin with, when looking at a club's attendance history over time, there are a couple key variables that contribute to how well a team grosses: length of existence of the franchise, the population size of the team's fanbase, and both the historical and short-term competitiveness of the franchise.  These variables are not the be-all-and-end-all, but for the most part, they provide a good lens through which to analyze a team's attendance.

So when comparing the Rays' and Marlins' attendance histories, we need to keep these variables in mind.  The Marlins have been around since 1993, five years earlier than the Rays, plus they are located in the largest metropolitan area in all of Florida.  Actually, the Miami metropolitan area is massive, ranking seventh in size (approximately 5.4 million people in 2007) out of the entire nation.  The Rays, on the other hand, are located in the Tampa-St. Pete metropolitan area, which comes in 19th with around 2.7 million residents.  Here's a good visual representation of what this looks like:

 

Attendance2_medium

In case you're curious, the three outlier cities are, from right to left, New York, Los Angelos, and Chicago.  This isn't a perfect study since it only goes back four years, but at least from this data, it appears that there is a pretty strong correlation between the size of a city's metropolitan area and average attendance.  The Rays are that dot just above 3 million residents (don't ask me why...Excel is being weird) and just below 20K people per game, while the Marlins are the rather extreme outlier with less than 20K people per game and more than 5 million people in their metropolitan area.  At 17,713 people per game over this time period, they are the only team located in a metropolitan area with more than 5 million residents that failed to gross more than 28K per game.  In fact, they had the lowest average attendance from any team during this time period.  That's not just bad - that's horrendous.

So far, though, we haven't begun to answer any questions.  In fact, all indicators seem to point towards the Marlins having a large fanbase...but they most certainly don't.  This is because of our last two variables: the historical and short-term competitiveness of the franchise.  During their innaugural year, the Marlins drew like a team from a metropolitan area with more than 5 million individuals (averaging almost 38K per game), which is much more than the Rays averaged their innaugural year (~31K per game).  However, since then, the franchise has dedicated no effort towards sustained competitiveness.  Sure, the Marlins won two World Series', but their owners dismantled the teams shortly thereafter.  In return, the area has said, "Screw you, if you don't care about us, why should we care about you?"  And hey, who can blame them?

Okay...so how does this relate to the Rays?  Well, although we don't have the large metropolitan area that would give us the potential to sustain larger attendance figures over long periods of time, our Front Office has dedicated itself to winning not only now, but in the future as well.  With a solid young core that is locked up for a long period of time and with an expanding payroll, the team has showed that it cares about winning.  Looking at past trends, I fully expect the fanbase to recognize this and to jump on board.  Over the course of the next few years, expect our average attendance figures to keep creeping up, reaching up to 30,000 and slightly above (which would put us around average for the size of our metropolitan area).  Attendance could always reach even higher, but it depends how long our team's performance peak lasts.

Anyway, despite our history, lack of a new stadium, smaller metropolitan area, whatever....we're in much better shape than our friends across the state.  The Marlins could have such an impressive fanbase, but they've squandered that by focusing their energies on keeping a low payroll at all costs and applying pressure on the local government to give them a new stadium.  The Rays, though....I really like the way they're running things.  Things are certainly on the way up in St. Pete.

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The Trop is a big part of why

I know everyone likes to bash the Pit, but it is a much better place to watch a ball game in July than Dolphin/Pro Player/Joe Robby. The marlins NEED a new stadium to draw more fans. It is too hot in Miami to play games in the middle of summer in an outdoor football stadium.

by Devil Ray on Mar 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Very true

But I don’t think a new stadium is really going to solve their problems. Stadiums will boost attendance temporarily, but that will only take you so far…being competitive and winning is really the only way to ensure high attendance.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Mar 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent job, very interesting

A couple of things about South Florida though. You are correct when you say that the Marlins’ FO dismantled the team after their 1997 championship, that is true. And perhaps there was some lasting resentment in the fan base from that year that has overridden any other moves made since.

However following their championship in 2003, the Marlins have pretty much maintained a competitive team since. They maintained payroll size through 2005, keeping their team intact for contention in those years. They even signed Carlos Delgado for the 2005 season. I think their commitment in those years was tangible.

Now you can argue that they sort of dismantled the team after that, what with Delgado, Burnett, and Beckett all leaving. But let’s look at that, really. The Delgado trade was a salary dump, and the only player of consequence claimed was Mike Jacobs, but his salary was large and he still hasn’t come close to matching his 2005-level production in New York.

As for Burnett and Beckett, Burnett was signed by Toronto to a huge free agent contract that most regarded as an overpayment on the Jays’ part. The exodus of Beckett brought back Hanley Ramirez, whom the Marlins just signed to a long-term extension.

Now if you want to look at the Miguel Cabrera trade, yeah losing him sucks, but they clearly sold high on Dontrelle Willis. Besides, Cameron Maybin will be awesome, and I think Andrew Miller will get it together to.

So I would say that the Marlins have dumped salary lately, yes, but I don’t think that necessarily reflects a lack of commitment to winning. I think it reflects the reality of poor attendance figures and a stadium not conducive to making money forcing the team to keep its payroll at a level where it can sustain itself as a business. But they’ve been smart every single time they’ve dumped salary, getting quality talent in return that allows them to sustain themselves at a high level of competitiveness.

They’ve averaged about 80 wins a season since their World Series year, which isn’t great, but it often far outpaces expectations, and they do stick around in the playoff hunt until September perennially. The problem I think no longer lies with Marlins management. They’ve made every effort to stay in the South Florida area given the circumstances, and they’ve been putting a quality product out on the field for several years now.

I think that the Marlins franchise is actually in good shape now that they’ve got their stadium deal all but done. I think that should be a revenue-generator for them, and hopefully they begin to attract attendance levels that allow that market to sustain a good baseball team. Their TV ratings have always been great, but hopefully the new ballpark will end up being the catalyst for a bit of stability in the way that franchise has been run.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Mar 21, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, those are all good points

I definitely agree that the FL front office has done a great job making trades and stockpiling young talent…their front office definitely has done a great job putting a competitive team on the field, given the resources that they have. But I think the trick is that poor attendance figures don’t have to be a forgone conclusion, which their ownership group seems to have assumed of late. Yes, a new stadium will probably help them wonders, but I don’t see how their stadium alone would take them down from 35,000 fans per game to 17,000 per game. Yes, it could lower their average a good amount, but that’s a rather extreme amount.

If you look, the Marlins’ attendance was increasing in every year after their 2003 World Series victory, up until the 2006 season. Given another year of increased competitiveness, their attendance would have passed 25,000 per game and probably could have touched 30,000. Instead, like you pointed out, that was the off-season AJ Burnett, Delgado, and Beckett all left the team. Even though those moves were savvy front-office decisions, allowing the Marlins to get cheap talent like Hanley, they were based around the notion that if they attempted to expand payroll at all, their attendance figures would not raise to support it. After those players all left, the Marlins’ attendance dropped dramatically (probably because their fans had already been burned after the 1997 dismantling), which seemingly justified the Marlins’ decisions. I say, though, that the Marlins created their own problem by not having faith in their fanbase.

If you look at the Rays, they’ve gone the opposite route: increase payroll to show that you are dedicated, and then hope for an increased fan support. I’d argue that the support will come from fans if you show them you’re commited to them. While the Marlins commited to their team, their attendance kept increasing every year. Once they bailed, attendance dropped horrendously low.

So maybe in the end, the Marlins worked things the right way because now they have a new stadium that should allow them to increase attendance figures. However, it their management continues to refuse to expand payroll until they see dedication from their fans, they’re never going to do it. Dedication must come from the front-office first….the fans simply follow.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Mar 21, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The spend more money to get better players thing was done before

I think with the Rays it went beyond that; attendance increased just with a change in ownership and nothing else. Namoli’s reputation had gotten so bad in the area that he really couldn’t show his face in public anymore. You can’t tell the fans, ’we’re not going to spend any more money on this team until you come out and watch the games.’ You can imply it, you can dance around it, but you cannot come flat out and say it, and that’s what Namoli did.

Whether he or anybody else wants to admit it or not, Jeff Loria has the stigma associated with him running teams into the ground. He had a competitive team in Montreal, had a fire sale, demanded a new stadium, didn’t get it, then went scorched earth on the Expos. Then he gets the Marlins, has a competitive team, fire-sales it, and surprise, now he’s demanding a new stadium, or he’s going to move this team too. I really don’t think there’s anything he can do to build a fanbase, because I don’t think anybody there trusts him.

Check out my blog on (mostly ColdFusion, but some PHP) web development at kericr.wordpress.com

by kericr on Mar 21, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is there not to like about Jeff Loria

Just a squirrel trying to get a nut

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 22, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is curious to me

I think the Rays FO is making solid forward looking moves, but they haven’t yet faced the kind of attendance changing issues the Marlins have. I see the Rays on a path similar to the Fish in 2002 – 2006. How the Rays continue from there is the true test.

Payroll is lowered by going wqith more minimum pay players through internal; development. But as a team rides (hopefully upward) with their prospects, those players start to move into their arb years and push team payroll up. Contending teams often supplement with trades and FA’s that also push pay upward. It’s this processs the Rays are working through right now.

But the true org test, and one that will impact attendance going forward, is the next 3 seasons (’10-12) when the current crop is working through Arb or approaching / reaching FA status. And big holes will have to be filled if contention is to be maintained – not all of which the Rays have prospects in place to fill. When the payroll starts to push against the $80MM level, what will the org do? 2009 is likely the first season in their reign that their payroll will exceed their Revenue Sahring plus Central fund receipts, and their local revenue will have to be dedicated to that task. So growing that will be increasingly important – unfortunately right at the moment when the economy is exerting downward pressure.

I don’t see that comparing the Rays to the worst revenue org in baseball is a testament to their approach. Pretty low bar to hurdle in my mind.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 21, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There will be more comparisons coming

I just started with the Marlins because well, they’re the other team in Florida and we’ve both had attendance issues.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Mar 21, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Expanding the "Metropolitan Area"

The Rays were pretty clear about wanting to grow the awareness of the Rays throughout Florida when they moved Spring Training out of St. Pete. Of course, improved facilities were probably the main impetus, but it makes strategic sense.

I’m not sure if the Tampa/St. Pete area counts in Sarasota and Bradenton, but I’m thinking no. I am sure that awareness in Port Charlotte is way up, and it is pretty clear from the Rays’ draw in Spring that Sarasota and Bradenton are on-board as well. In addition to extra fans at the games, you have to expect that ad revenues will be climbing in spite of the economy.

If the Rays can permanently capture these fans, then they will become more like a regional team with the capacity to push up payrolls and remain viable- especially if a new stadium can be built that would become a “destination” for regional residents, much like Turner Field was in the Braves heyday with fans all around the southeast making at least 1 trip a year to Atlanta. The Rays would have a smaller region to work with, but no reason why a fan in Ocala or Punta Gorda couldn’t make it to 3-4 games a year.
    

by Thejeffg on Mar 22, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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