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Stephen Strasburg and Rookie Contracts

Hey all,

First of all I was really thrilled by some of the responses to my last post about differential basbeall analysis. I am doing some of the math behind the project right now (I unfortunately had no takers in helping me on the stats/data mining side), and I am already seeing some very interesting results about the real, negative value of "ground ball" hitters as well as guys without patience. One of the interesting consequences of differentials is the existence of many secondary effects, and GB hitters as well as those who don't see too many pitches have a very real and negative type of secondary effect that I will be measuring. Hint: in this system, Bartlett is a very, very poor hitter for your team, not individually.

Second of all, I wanted to ask everyone's opinion about Stephen Strasburg, the rookie phenom who is apparently the next coming of everyone from Barry Sanders to Carey Price and everything in between. His agent, venerable Scott Boras, is reportedly seeking a $50 MM deal for Strasburg's rookie contract.

Strasburg is clearly the best available player in the draft. He throws in the high 90's, sometimes topping 100, doesn't walk many people, and seems to have at least three major-league quality pitches already. One scout (probably a cronie of Mr. Boras) has hyped that Strasburg is already a better pitcher than AJ Burnett, a claim I find pretty ridiculous given Strasburg's zero pro ball experience.

The Nationals, thanks to winning fewer than 60 games last season, have the distinct advantage of picking first this year, and Strasburg should be a no-brainer. Except the kid (Boras) wants a $50 MM deal with a $10 MM signing bonus included. This is more money than we committed to Pat Burrell, a proven (if defensively inept) major league hitter who is expected to provide an impact bat to the offense. Washington really has its hands tied here: the financial committment to Strasburg, however large it may be, will probably tie its hands over the next few seasons. Who's to say Strasburg doesn't crash and burn at the major league level, or at least not produce up to expectations for a season or two. For $50 MM, you can get three years of Derek Lowe consistency or two years of the best right-handed hitter in baseball. For $50 MM, you should be getting a sure thing. And, financially-strapped, small-market teams (which are more likely to receive high draft picks due to smaller budgets) are now being put in a position where they may not be able to select the best overall available player because the player is willing to sit out.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm a big believer in the free market, and I think that the draft may not really even be the best or most fair way to get rookie players to teams. I'm totally against a salary cap in baseball (or any organized sport) and I like to see market-setting behavior from teams such as the Yankees and Dodgers, who basically determine player prices after acquiring top-line talent. The problem is, without any way of controlling rookie salary demands, struggling organizations such as Washington will not be able to select the best overall player, and if they choose to do so, they risk not being able to sign him to an earthly deal. This is a problem going on in many sports, including the NFL.

The NHL caps rookie contracts. I don't think this is the right approach. But, players who declare for the draft should be signable at a modest rate, no matter what kind of potential or current skills the players may possess. If the player is truly spectacular, he will make money through the arbitration process in as soon as two years. He could be commanding Ryan Howard money if he is successful, and then the Nationals will be even more strapped for cash. At least if he is signed, however, he is tradeable, and they can move him before arbitration kicks in.

What should baseball do? Here's my suggestion: Create an "opt-in" system. What  mean by this is that baseball should force rookies to declare whether or not they will go to and agree by an arbitration hearing should they not sign a contract with a willing team. If the player opts in, he and/or the team can request arbitration, and the two parties must agree to abide and sign by the arbitor's decision. If a player opts in, he is eligible for arbitration as a "Super Two."

If the player chooses not to opt-in, he can still declare for the draft but his status will be noted as such and he will not be eligible for arbitration until after his third year, no matter how he performs the first three.

I don't know if the players' union will go for this (most likely not) but it could easily be tied into other changes in the arbitration and compensation system that make equal or better concessions for veteran players and other such nonsense. The point is that by forcing an arbitration hearing, the team knows that cost control won't be so much of an issue (it will be hard for any agent, including Boras himself, to convince an arbitor that his rookie should receive a $50 MM deal before ever playing a single day in the majors).

That's just my two cents. Let me know what your suggestions are!

1 recs  |  Comment 45 comments

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All of it is a can of worms

MLBPA has made the draft one of their issues for whatever reason, and since it’s covered by the collective bargaining agreement, any change to the system that favors the owners means that the owners would need to give up something else big to the players. I don’t think the owners would want this ‘opt in’ system though. Over time, it probably means that drafted players would get paid more, rather than less, and considering the number of minor leaguers there are out there, it would probably end up being a huge administrative expense for the ballclubs.

BTW, I agree that Strasburg is already better than AJ Burnett. He needs to be stretched out to work over a full season, but on a pitch for pitch basis, he would immediately be one of the best pitchers in the majors. However, he does pitch with an “Inverted W”, which a lot of the mechanics analysis folks say is a red flag for having injuries down the line.

That said, Boras is blowing smoke up the Nats’ ass. $50M is ridiculous, and even Boras knows it. Sure, he can threaten to have Strasburg sign over in Japan for a year, but it’s very unlikely that the amount of money he makes there would compensate Strasburg for the difference. Strasburg absolutely will get a major league record bonus when he signs, but something reasonable would be in the $12 – 15M range with a major league contract.

Also, while MLBPA has veto rights over the draft, it’s not REALLY the MLBPA’s issue. If MLB is willing to go there, they could probably overhaul the draft system to have pure slotting (and to cover international players, although I’m not sure that most of the teams actually want that) if they give up something relatively major that probably should be done anyway in this era of increased specialization – increase the size of the active roster to 26 or 27.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, we had this debate on minorleagueball

but,

However, he does pitch with an "Inverted W", which a lot of the mechanics analysis folks say is a red flag for having injuries down the line.

Kyle Boddy is the only person I’ve seen saying the “inverted w” is harmful and a lot of folks picked up on it from him. I still haven’t heard what qualifies him to make that assertion. James Andrews doesn’t agree, neither do scouts Callis or Law have talked too. And Huskerbob from minor leagueball, who really knows his stuff doesn’t think it’s an issue either.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another thing that annoys me about Boddy's site is posts like this:
I would like to point out (as I always seem to do) that I can’t control the fact that 99.9% of pitchers in the major leagues throw at least one breaking ball with a supinated grip. Due to this, they’ll all have inflamed elbows and eventually will suffer elbow damage – regardless of how their mechanics grade out otherwise.

This is his response to Duchscherer having surgery. He had previously written an article saying Duke had awesome mechanics and he loved them. His goal is to be able to predict injuries based on the mechanics of a pitcher, then when he’s wrong he says it’s not his fault, which brings us back to where everyone else is, that pitchers get hurt. Analyzing mechanics to allow a pitcher to gain better command or a better breaking pitch or whatever. I’m fine with that. But trying to predict injuries is silly, because there is no possible way you can.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, that sounds like a cop out

It’s like saying “throwing overhand is an unnatural motion, so most pitchers will probably get hurt”. It would be true, but it’s not useful information.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree or disagree with the theory

I just want to see some kind of correlation, which nobody has been able to provide. I practically got into a flame war with someone over this at Minorleagueball.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

As it is, it’s not really evidence.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 31, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Graham put it pretty well.

Something like, “In real world land, we call it a M.”.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris O'Leary started the whole "inverted W" thing when he "pinpointed" it,

as the cause of Mark Prior’s problems.

Also, I believe Boddy said the Nats would be stupid to not sign Strasburg.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 31, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, James Andrews is a surgeon. Not even a fake mechanics expert.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 31, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Andrews runs a research institute in Alabama.

that does the most advanced research in the world on how a pitchers throwing motion stresses his joints. He’s really the authority on how mechanics affect a pitchers joints. And even he is years away.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roster Size

Good post. I don’t know about changing the roster size. On one hand, it’s pretty ridiculous that MLB expects a team that has 4 bench spots (3 not including the back up C) and 12 pitchers to complete a 162 game schedule. On the other hand, that’s what roster moves are for. Part of what makes baseball great is the selectivity at the top end of the spectrum. By limiting major league active roster sizes to 25, we are preventing teams from “hoarding” big league prospects who should be playing every day in simple bench roles. Everything that GM’s plan around requires a 25 man roster… so changing the size would be a pretty big deal and wouldn’t likely go down too quickly. Ultimately, eventually, I do think you’re right and the active roster size will increase, but I think that may be 10-20 years down the road. I’ve thought that the fairest way to handle it would be to add 5 extra roster spots on the active but provide some sort of provision to protect good prospects from riding the bench too much a la Rule 5, just with AB’s.

by elijahdukes on Mar 31, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Increasing it one at a time makes the most sense

But 30 more big league spots with big league salaries would be a big win for the MLBPA, and at this point it’s probably something the owners should want as well.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not absurd at all.
One scout (probably a cronie of Mr. Boras) has hyped that Strasburg is already a better pitcher than AJ Burnett, a claim I find pretty ridiculous given Strasburg’s zero pro ball experience.

Strasburg has better stuff and is universally considered a better prospect than Mark Prior. Take a look at Priors number the year he was drafted and the following seasons and tell me Strasburg can’t be better than Burnett. Now, how he responds to pitching in the big leagues is anyone’s guess, but he currently does everything better than Burnett. Better fastball, breaking ball and command.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How does his ability to get blisters and hangnails rate?

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 31, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If PitchFX existed for college baseball

You wouldn’t even question which one is better. Strasburg has better stuff, and better control, and better command. He has the second filthiest fastball I’ve ever seen, after early 90’s Randy Johnson.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prior's first season he was a 3 win pitcher.

Last three years Burnett is ~4.

We’re talking about Strasburg going from college to the rotation and being better than a 4 win pitcher immediately? That seems unlikely, even if he is Sidd Finch.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meant to add.

Prior only spent 51 innings in the minors, so he wasn’t too far removed.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't mean that

Obviously he’d have to get to the point where he can pitch 200 innings, so he’d need to spend a year in the minors and have his pitch counts and innings severely limited his first year or two. He’s by no means past the injury nexus and they have to protect him. But, assuming that they don’t overwork him, I think he’s better on a per inning basis than Burnett is right now. If he was in the major leagues today, his K/9 would be over 10.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, maybe that's exaggerating a hair

But he could do it. He has two 80 pitches on the 20-80 scouting scale, and he generally knows where they’re going.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still a pretty lofty claim

LINK
I had AJ as the best BAa and OBPa in 2008. So much of his success came from a ton of innings, which he has shown is not repeatable for him. In that regard Strasburg may be better, he may not. I want to see him throw to AAA players at the very least before I anoint him.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, you go ahead and wait

You’ll come around. People have come around on Weiters too.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think it's easy to get lost in hyperbole

No doubt he grades as high, if not higher, than any of those that have come before him. I just don’t want to get swept up in the hysteria too early.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, what's the significance of the 20-80 scale?

Until we actually see the pitches get real hitters out, that really is not an instructive number. It’s just made up by a scout. Granted, I’m sure the fastball is an 80 (what 100 mph fastball isn’t?) but younger players who get by with a slider in college often turn out to be playing with an inferior pitch.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 31, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody is saying he couldn't eventually do it.

It’s the people saying he’s a 4 win pitcher the day he’s drafted.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody is saying he couldn't eventually do it.

It’s the people saying he’s a 4 win pitcher the day he’s drafted.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Better than Burnett" doesn't necessarily mean 4+ wins

It can also mean that you think an individual batter would be more afraid of facing Strasburg than facing Burnett, and to that I agree.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the record

And I think as I expressed above, I don’t think Strasburg would immediately be a 4 win pitcher. No way he could pitch that many innings.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Statcorner doesn't have Prior's 2002 season listed,

but looking at his baseball reference page and looking at traditional stats, I’m not sure how Prior wasn’t more than a 3 win pitcher his rookie year, unless the stats weren’t adjusted to time spent in the majors. Statcorner has Burnett as a 5.5 win pitcher last year and Prior did everything better than Burnett his rookie year except prevent home runs. He K’d 2 more hitters/9, walked a .5 hitter/9 less, gave up fewer hits as a result (again, don’t have LD rates for 2002). He did allow .3 more HR/9. Priors second season he was a 10 win pitcher.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still doesn't make sense to me.

How is Burnett worth more per IP that Prior when ever one of Priors stats is better, including his FIP (which is a stat I don’t particularly like).

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Park adjustments? Difference in league averages?

Seriously. KLaw said that was asinine, and KLaw has seen Strasburg. I’m going to take his word over some anonymous scout.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prior was a 10 win pitcher the next season. KLaw called Stasburg better than Prior.

Sorry, but it’s not asinine using KLaws own assessments.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

I’m talking about Strasburg being > A.J.

Also, I’m pretty sure you’re riding the Strasburg engine a little too hard. Come off it a bit.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Immediately*

I’m sure at some point he’ll be that good, but not immediately.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm saying Prior>>>>Burnett.

If Strasburg is clearly better than Prior and according to KLaw, he is and Prior was a 10 win pitcher in his first full season in the big leagues, it’s not outlandish to say Strasburg could be a 4 win pitcher this season on a pro-rated basis. My logic is not that hard to follow. Strasburg probably won’t pitch in the big leagues this season anyway. But if he does, I still say he can be better than Burnett right now.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm also not saying it's a mortal lock

that he’ll be better, but it’s not anything close to a stretch to say he could be.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 31, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is going in circles.

The only thing I took objection to was “Strasburg > A.J. right now”

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 31, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

AJ Burnett is a proven ML starter with a career FIP and K’s to back it up. Strasburg is dominating at SAN DIEGO STATE. Get real, people! Boras hires crony scouts to drive up the market value of his rookies. Even I didn’t think he would go this far, though. I think he’s really trying to push the market ( the owners) and see if their wallets are quite as thin as they claim them to be. Boras is an expert at getting top dollar and that’s why young studs like Strasburg pay him the big bucks to represent them.

by elijahdukes on Mar 31, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Note to everyone in the world: not all #1 picks hit!

Strasburg does look pretty straight and I would love to have him on my team, but $50 MM is a huge committment for a mid-market team to spend on a single player who has NEVER played professional ball. 50 MM over 6 years is about 8.3 MM per year, but of course, he will have to spend some of his time in minor league ball. I think it is likely that after injury expectations, minor league time, and/or failing to live up to asinine expectations, he is not a $50 MM rookie. Nobody is.

by elijahdukes on Mar 31, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

50 MM is just the Boras number.

He wanted 100MM for Daisuke’s contract, he said Oliver Perez was the next Sandy Koufax.

People should not be worked up over this.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 31, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watch him pitch, not the results

Yes, the results are astounding as well, but that just buttresses the fact that right this minute he has the best “stuff” of any pitcher in the world.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I do agree that 50M is ridiculous

As I said above, I think this is posturing, and it will end up in the $12 – 15M range (possibly with fewer years), which would still be a record by a good margin.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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