Tampa Bay Rays' Attendance: Why Not to Worry, Part 2
For a quick update, Friday night's game against the White Sox ended up drawing 28,927 people and Saturday night's game drew 31,916, which are quite impressive numbers. So if anyone was questioning Thursday night's attendance, I hope at least this helped assure you that it was simply a product of it being a lousy night and a low-drawing team. Really, nothing to get worked up about.
However, I do still want to address the statement made by a commenter on my piece a couple weeks ago about hoping the Rays' attendance never fell before 20K for any game. While made in good faith, such high expectations set us up to be disappointed. Even if the Rays were to draw an average of 30,000 fans a game, there would still be individual games that dipped under the 20,000 mark. That's the nature of averages - you're going to have some games much higher than your average and some much lower.
What I want to know, though, is two things: how low is too low and how many low attendance games can we tolerate before we should get worried? Obviously, if we only draw about 5,000 fans to one game, that's a huge cause for concern. And also obviously, if we consistently start drawing only 13K fans per game, that's also a problem. So where do we draw the line between what's low attendance based on random fluctuations and what's low attendance based on...well, low attendance?
Okay, so this explanation is going to get a bit mathematical/statistical and I'm going to do the best I can to explain everything in terms hopefully everyone can understand. If anything is not clear to you, though, please leave a comment and I'll be happy to elaborate and/or fix the section that you were confused by.
In order to answer these questions, I'm going to use the statistical concept of the normal curve. The normal curve goes by a bunch of different names - bell curve, normal distribution, Gaussian function , stuff like that - and it's a pretty common concept (at least I feel like it is, though I may be biased) so hopefully you already have a pretty good idea of what it is. If you don't off the top of your head, all you really need to know for now is that the normal curve basically is a way of approximating any distribution of data that groups around an average.
Whether you're familiar with the normal curve or not, though, I'm going to walk us through this step by step. Take a look at this image - that's the normal curve. That u-like symbol (the μ thingy) in the middle of the x-axis represents the mean (AKA "average") of whatever sample it is you're dealing with. In our case, we're dealing with attendance figures over the course of a season. The percentage figures represent how much of your sample should theoretically end up within each distance from the mean. For example, look at the section directly to the left of the mean. In that section, which is slightly less than the average, you should theoretically find about 34.1% of your total sample. In our case, that would mean that we should find about 34.1% of Rays' home games have attendance figures falling in this range of being slightly less than the average for the year. On the flip side, about 34.1% of Rays' games should have attendance figures slightly higher than the average. And then, also looking at the graph, about 13.6% of Rays' games should have attendance figures slightly higher than that section. Make sense?
Now the trick is, how do we determine where these cut-offs between sections are? That's where the term "standard deviation" comes in (represented by the symbol σ in the picture), which is basically just a statistical way of calculating how spread apart your sample is and therefore, where these different intervals are cut off. The standard deviation for the Rays' attendance per game last year was 8,340, meaning that about 68% of the Rays' games should have had attendance figures that were within ±8,340 of the average (22,370 per game), which ends up being a range between 14,030 and 30,710 fans per game. In actuality, the Rays had 44 games that fell into that range last year out of 78 home games (I discounted the ones at Disney because the smaller capacity of that stadium screwed with things), which is about 56% of our home games - damn close to the theoretical estimate of 68%.
If you'll notice, though, that huge range still only accounted for 56% of our games, meaning that there are still 34 games to be accounted for. If you look at the next two sections of the normal curve (within two standard deviations of the mean, or anything between the 2σ cutoffs), you'll see that each section should hold about 13.6% of our sample. In 2008, there were 16 games that fell between -1σ and -2σ (between 14,030 fans per game and 5,690) and 18 games that fell between 1σ and 2σ (between 30,710 fans per game and 39,050). That's around 20% (16 out of 78) of the Rays' home games that fell within each of these intervals.
We've only looked at 2008 so far, but the distribution of games is very similar each of the last few years. Here's a summary of the last 3 years: Normal Curve. Very similar, with even a couple games in '06 and '07 reaching into the category between 2 and 3 standard deviations above the mean. This was possible those years because we sold out days like our home opener, but our overall attendance average for the year was very low.
So this is all well and good, but what does all this mean going forward? Basically, we now know that most (if not all) of the games the Rays will play at home this year will fall within ±2σ (plus/minus two standard deviations) from the mean. I'm going to estimate our standard deviation this year as 8000, which is about where our standard deviations have been for the last three years (8,340; 7,960; and 7,500). Using this standard deviation, let's look at where our cut-offs for this year would be depending what our average attendance per game was:
(2σ)
(1σ)
Mean
1σ
2σ
9000
17000
25000
33000
41000
11000
19000
27000
35000
43000
13000
21000
29000
37000
45000
15000
23000
31000
39000
47000
17000
25000
33000
41000
49000
Based on this, even if we were to average 33,000 fans per game, there would still be a good chance that we'd have some games bottoming out as low as 17,000 fans. I personally think it is more realistic to expect our average attendance for the year to end up around 25,000 - 28,000 per game (see this piece on the potential effects of the recession), meaning that we could theoretically see games as low as 9,000 per game. Considering the lowest we got last year was 10,500, I really doubt we'll get that low, but it's not unreasonable to expect a couple more games down around 11,000 - 13,000 fans in attendance.
How many games, though? Based on the distribution of games over the past couple of years, here's my estimate of how many games to expect fitting into each section of the normal curve:
| (2σ - 1σ) | (1σ - Mean) | Mean - 1σ | 1σ - 2σ |
| 13 | 28 | 18 | 19 |
If that looks really similar to what we did last year...well, that's because it is. I expect us to have fewer games on the very low end (since last year it took about half the season before Tampa-St. Pete recognized how good we were and started attending games) and about the same number of games in each other category.
Anyway, to summarize, I expect the Rays draw an average of about 25K-28K per game, yet to bottom out around 11,000 - 12,000 fans in a few games and to have about 13 games this year with under 20,000 fans per game. As the season progresses, I'll revisit these estimates and see how we're fairing but for now, we're looking pretty darn fine. Again, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
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22 comments
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Comments
Counting the games we've already played...
42 of the 81 home games we have this year are either Friday night games, Concert Games, or games against the Red Sox/Yankees/Phillies.
Assuming a complete collapse of the local economy (moreso than has already happened) doesn’t occur, those 42 games are going to be healthy crowds. I’d venture to say that this past Friday will be one of the lowest-attended of those games.
The Concert Series will probably be 30K+ for each night. Granted, I don’t know who some of the bands are, but when I said that to people, I got strange glares. So, I assume they’re well-known, just not my cup of tea as far as music goes.
The problem here is the mid-week series against the jobber teams. When we play the Royals on Thursday afternoon in June with a 4 o’ clock start, the place will be barren. But the sellouts should temper it, and we’ll see somewhere in the high-20s to finish the year.
Of course, if you guarantee me that Willy Aybar will get on stage with Flo-Rida and sing Low, I will buy each and every seat to guarantee a sellout.
Also, if they want to inflate attendance, they should open the SRO sections for the Prime games that they know will sell out. Jack up the capacity to compensate for the horrible mid-week matchups that will bring the average down.
by ReasonableDoubt on Apr 19, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
29,142
That’s our attendance today.
AC/DC + Tampa Bay Rays = Big Balls on a Budget
by Orlando Rays on Apr 19, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Attendance skews.....
I’ll say this having watched all the games on TV, If we had that many people at Friday’s game they bought a ticket, entered the stadium, the quickly left and went back to tailgate in the parking lot. I saw an enormous amount of empty seats, same for Saturday. Again, I know they base it on tickets purchased and possibly people clicking through the turnstiles, but…cmon’ Did anyone watching the games on TV notice the same? Hey, its great they sold that many, but I’ve been to games with crowds of 29K and its pretty tight in there, I saw alot of blue both days. Today, I could see that many
by RayGuy3 on Apr 19, 2009 10:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game on Friday.
Not surprisingly, the baseline box seats and the lower box seats that stretch into the outfield were fairly empty. But the upper deck and outfield seats were packed. I though to myself about 25,000-26,000…so it doesn’t seem too far off.
by steve-o1285 on Apr 19, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was there as well, the only spaces that looked wildly empty to me were the corners of the baselines.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 19, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The baseline boxes are always the last to go
I have no idea why.
AC/DC + Tampa Bay Rays = Big Balls on a Budget
by Orlando Rays on Apr 19, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because once you're that far down...you may as well just by an outfield seat for less money
Also a few people I’ve talked to don’t like them because the seats face the outfield, so you have to turn your body to face the action. I’ve never been in those seats, but I could understand that.
by steve-o1285 on Apr 19, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
The baseline box seats are far too much money for the price they charge. And for whatever reason, Ticketmaster crowds people into the first and last section in an area. That’s why the last section of infield boxes are empty, and whenever you go to Ticketmaster for a not-crowded game and ask for outfield seats, they put you behind the foul pole in 139.
This is also why I’ve taken to buying an outfield seat and just sitting in the baseline box. Because screw Ticketmaster.
by ReasonableDoubt on Apr 20, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*upper deck, not outfield.
The outfield seats are a hell of a view. I don’t like right field because you miss the video board, but the left field stands are quite nice.
by ReasonableDoubt on Apr 20, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at Saturday's Game
And I didn’t see many open spaces, except for a few sections in RF and LF. 31k seemed right on to me.
by Lithia Rays on Apr 19, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was there Saturday and it was pretty full
Another point of the seats down the line behind the bullpen is that when the show a side view of the pitcher on tv those seats are in the background. So when you are watching on tv you see these sparsely filled sections and assume the rest of the stadium is like that. When in actuality these are pretty much the only empty seats in the stadium.
Also I agree these are by far the worst value seats in the stadium. The outfield seats are much better and cheaper. They should make these seats the same price as the outfield
by Sveet on Apr 20, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll get a good sense of how low it can go
When the A’s come to town Mon-Thurs in the middle of May.
by steve-o1285 on Apr 19, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The stadium is in the wrong place
The comments about the Rays attendance from around the country (especially from Boston, NY, Philly) are a joke. I spent 30 years in Philly (which is basically the same type of city as NY) and the attendance was based on W-L. The Phils attendance in the late 90’s was worse than the attendance at the Trop, the team wasn’t in contention and they had way lower than 20k actual attendance at the Vet. They played games with the tickets sold and the sportswriters in Philly at the time admitted it. Baseball was dead in the town until they built the new ballpark and attracted a younger crowd with the amenities. The Rays have a lot more obstacles to face than the teams from the NE. First off, the have to deal with the transplants and winning over loyalty. Also, it is a new market. Finally, the stadium, while I love the Trop, is in the wrong place. Put it on I-4 – 75 at the fairgrounds and you get Hills, Pinellas, Pasco, and the Orlando market. The demo’s don’t work in St. Pete. This is a very vibrant area for baseball.
by Lithia Rays on Apr 19, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone else noticed 90% of these suggestions can be boiled down to "Put it closer to where I live"?
After all the multi-million dollar lawsuits (some of which are still pending) when the Amphitheater went up, building a baseball stadium there would cause a riot.
A very slow riot filled with people in walkers, but a riot nonetheless. Remember, the old fogies that write letters to the editor are the ones who go to town hall meetings and vote.
by ReasonableDoubt on Apr 20, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can people stop suggesting the fairgrounds?
There couldn’t be a worse place. Can anyone get their easy on a weekday after 5? Traffic is a nightmare.
No offense, but I don’t think people who live in Pasco and far east hillsbourough have the right to complain. A lot of people who live there work in Tampa, but choose to live there because you can get more house for your money. You are trading location for value. So to complain about how close things are to you is kind of funny to me.
by Sveet on Apr 20, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Build a huge joint parking structure
And build the frakking thing across from RJS.
by PlayOnWords on Apr 20, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
question about the standard deviation
Because the Rays attendance went up a lot for the last two months of year, and in past years it may have gone down the last few months when it was clear the team was awful, is it reasonable to assume that in a year with high expectations where we meat those expectations that the standard deviation becomes a smaller number?
Maybe another way of looking at it is to ask if other small market teams with high expectations who play well, such as the twins or d’backs have a smaller deviation similar to big market clubs, or if there is always going to be higher standard deviation for a small market team.
by behn on Apr 20, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...very good questions.
My gut instinct would say that the more years that a team is competitive and wins, regardless of their market size, the lower its standard deviation will get because they’ll be getting more and more fans to their games consistently. Whether the small market teams will always have a larger standard deviation than the large market teams….that I don’t know, but it does seem to make sense. I can look into that, but it’ll take me a couple days to get the numbers together.
As for the Rays specifically, last year our standard deviation after the all-star break was 7,905, while our SD before the all star break was 8,200. So it definitely did lower some, but not a ridiculous amount. I’ll be interested to see if our SD this year ends up being significantly less than in years past….in the meantime, though, I’ll try and find some historical comparisons and see if that happened.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Apr 20, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attendance.....
It was more than just the side pitcher shot seats that were empty. The outfield seats in Friday’s game were very empty. Sat’s game was a bit better and Sunday was even better than Sat. I can’t see the upper deck seats so I can’t honestly say what it looked like there. I would love to go but can’t afford to at this time, but the fans in Tampa are front-runners having lived here for 29 years. Once the Rays get rolling again, we’ll be fine I think.
by RayGuy3 on Apr 20, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched Fridays game and I don't remember seeing the outfield seats being very empty
to me they looked pretty full
by Sveet on Apr 20, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're fine already
Averaging 28K at the moment? Not too shabby.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Apr 20, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the seats on Friday were dressed like people
They didn’t look empty at all on TV.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
by kericr on Apr 20, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think trying to use the standard deviations from last year in analysis this year is going to fudge your results a bit.
For the first almost three months, the game attendance figures were pretty much the same as what was seen in a typical year, 13-15k for average teams, with 10k or so for the Jays, Rangers, and White Sox and 25k+ for the Yankees, BoSox and Marlins. Sprinkle in the Sat. concert series games which had high attendance regardless of opponent and your dot graph is going to look like it was blasted with a shotgun from 100 yards.
I think you’re going to see a smaller deviation throughout attendance this year, +/- 5k or so, but I think your estimate on average is pretty spot on assuming the team does improve and manages to play competitively in the division all year.
Very good stuff though. Anybody who wants to really get a good grip on the analysis of this site should really take a good hard look at this post. This kind of work contains some most basic and useful statistical formulae used when doing general statistics.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
by kericr on Apr 20, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I debated about that, but I feel like the best estimate for our standard deviation this year that I can make is simply what we’ve already had. Maybe that’s not the case…maybe if I looked at our innaugural year, I’d find a much smaller SD. I’ll have to look into that, I guess.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Apr 20, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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