Colorado Rockies Still Like Jason Hammel
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 2, 2009 3:24 PM EDT
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PrintThe push for Tampa’s Jason Hammel has not stopped. The Rockies like his age and power arm. If unable to make a deal — and one could still come down next week — Juan Morillo is favored to make the team over Matt Belisle for the final bullpen spot.
Cannot blame them. When I think about power, I think about Jason Hammel. His pitches, that is. Power curve. Power fastball. Also throws the powerball. That's a joke, based off the lottery term. You know, when you have a chance of getting lucky (therefore winning some unbelievable amount of cash) but in the end just end up with disappointment and dispair? Yeah, Jason Hammel throws that, and throws it damn well.
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But...
Mulligan (Cohasset MA): Jeff Niemann, 28 starts in 2009, over/under? If over, for who? TB, SD, PIT?
Keith Law: Under. You could go 2.8 and I might still say “under.” Good luck getting that arm to hold up in the rotation.
www.draysbay.com
Ugh
Do some research KLaw. Please. He’s like the SG of good baseball analysts. He doesn’t even try any more, he just makes quips and takes Klaw-bait.
Bear Stearns?
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Gee...
I’m so glad you find me useful.
I’ve seen Niemann’s medicals from when he was drafted, watched him pitch, and talked to people in and outside the Rays’ organization about him. It is my opinion that he can not hold up as a major-league starter. That’s not a lack of research of a lack of trying. It is my analysis. If you disagree, attack the analysis, not me.
by Keith Law on Apr 2, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wooow
Are you the real keith law? I don’t trust people.
by CB,DT,LB,OR DE is what we need on Apr 2, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Ouch
What about the last two years of data KLAW? He started 25 and 24 games. That is over 2.8 by a wide margin. Would he get hurt? Maybe, but I have serious doubts he couldn’t make 10 starts.
Sorry for the ad hominem, I just used to love the chats. Now I have trouble reading them because there are too many dumb questions (hence the “blogs still useful” comment). I love the blogs and have thoroughly enjoyed all the updates of late.
As long as we can still give the Sports Guy a hard time.
How many times do I have to read about his trip to Vegas. How many articles can your write about the same 7 subjects.
ehhh why can't I use brackets!?!?!?!
insert RJ joke about when was I ever active….
Third time’s a charm?
Well
Hello, Keith!!! Where do you think hammel or niemann will end up
by CB,DT,LB,OR DE is what we need on Apr 2, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I
meant to say sorry!! Its so hard to trust people these days. Welcome anyway, keith?
by CB,DT,LB,OR DE is what we need on Apr 2, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You can wipe off your chin now
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 2, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is it specifically that you see in him that makes you think he won't hold up?
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
He already said
I’ve seen Niemann’s medicals from when he was drafted, watched him pitch, and talked to people in and outside the Rays’ organization about him. It is my opinion that he can not hold up as a major-league starter. That’s not a lack of research of a lack of trying. It is my analysis. If you disagree, attack the analysis, not me.
Tools Whore
Given Niemann's track record, can anyone honestly disagree?
He’s been hurt every season minus 2008. If I’m betting on it, Niemann’s making at least one trip to the DL in any given year. One data point doesn’t change that, nor should it.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 2, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He made 25 starts the year before.
No, he does not have a good track record. No, I would not bet on him finishing a season without a DL trip, but he isn’t Adam Miller.
I don't think Law called him Adam Miller.
Of course I have no idea what his definition of holding up is either, but if it’s 25+ starts, I can certainly see why he would say it. 25/~35 is what, 70% or so? I think it’s reasonable to think he may not be capable of doing so.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 2, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd use a stop-sniffing joke here, but, well, you should.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
He only threw 149 innings last year and that's his career high.
Our #5 starter last year threw 183IP. It’s not a stretch to say he couldn’t handle a full time gig.
I think he should be our #5 to start the season, but I also think he could be our best reliever, so I won’t be disappointed if he’s there from the get go.
Tools Whore
We'll see.
His health is going the right way since his last surgery. I don’t think he’s a good LT option at SP, but he doesn’t need to be for this team. (crosses fingers)
Oh golly this is about to get good
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
That's not specific. That is a recap of the research he has done, followed by the conclusion he reached based on his research.
Being specific would be, “I think his arm is going to fall off” or “I think he’s got good stuff” or “I don’t think he’ll ever get his location good enough.” or something along those lines.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
Apparently, I'm the only one who didn't interpret "can not hold up as a major-league starter" as "injury risk"
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
Stupid English language, I hate English.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
You're either with us or you're with the terrorists
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Ahh durka durka
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
We're not asking him to hold up as a Major League starter
we need 60 innings as a starter and maybe another 40 as a reliever. I think, treated correctly, that should not be a problem. As far as down the road I hope he goes apeshit this year and he’s someone else’s problem.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
He was clearly being hyperbolic when he said he's take the under on 2.8.
But he wasn’t asked if he could hold up for us as our #5 until Price takes over, he was asked over/under on 28 starts and his position is really pretty easily justified. I don’t know if he’ll get hurt, but last year he made a career high 26 starts and threw a career high 149 innings. He’s 26. That tells you something about his durability.
Tools Whore
Bigger guys seem to get stuff ironed out later
http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml
This tall pitcher went from 26 to 160 to 200+ at age 26
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
It's not Niemann's stuff, it's his arm that's the problem.
Niemann didn’t take a long time to “figure it out” like Randy Johnson, he couldn’t stay healthy. If someone could have drafted him after his freshman year in college, he could have pitched effectively in the big leagues at 20.
Tools Whore
Ineffectiveness and injuries can both be tied to poor mechanics, no?
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Could be or they could be tied to a weak shoulder or some genetic downfall.
I’m just saying the Randy Johnson struggled to find his command and control and it didn’t come together for him until he was 26. Niemann had it all together and had an elite combination of command and stuff at 20.
Tools Whore
One time I saw Jeff wrestle a giraffe to the ground
Nothing wrong with this shoulder on that day.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
+1
Although I think sophomore year would be more accurate. Graham slagged those three kids’ arms, and none has been quite the same since.
Niemann’s arm action has changed for the worse since he was drafted. It is my opinion that he is a valuable asset, but in a relief role, not as a starter.
So what is a realistic amount of innings he should start before the anointed one comes up?
I would think 10 starts (~60 innings) would be just fine. I don’t wan’t to sound argumentative, because I agree that him and starting a full season of games would be a bad idea, but we don’t need him to do that.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Yeah.
When I said his Freshman year, I meant that he would have been big league ready sometime during the 2003 baseball season.
Tools Whore
Well Wade Townsend will always have a shiny trophy.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Wade Townsend will be a millionaire too.
It doesn’t exist anymore, but on Facebook, Wade Townsend created a group called, “Coach Graham eats elbows for breakfast…slathers them with peanut butter, but he gets you paid, so get over it Savery.”
This what when Joe Savery was a frosh or sophomore. Pretty funny stuff, but also a little sad.
Tools Whore
It is my opinion that he is a valuable asset, but in a relief role, not as a starter.
Couldn’t agree more.
I think that’s what his role should be because the process of stretching him out would likely send him to the DL and I wouldn’t be surprised if the reverse was true as well.
If someone wants to trade for him under the guise of him as a a decent starter, though, I’d be very willing.
Wasn’t Papelbon converted partly out of injury concerns?
Partly, but they also had a full rotation and no closer.
Could be a very similar situation to Niemann actually. Papelbon’s fastball is moves more and is just as hard and that splitter is unhittable. But Niemann’s curve could be unhittable too if it’s used properly.
Tools Whore
I'm not saying Niemann will be as good as Papelbon
but he could be a well above-average closer soon.
Tools Whore
Just those three?
I can’t think of a single pitcher to come out of Rice and not have major injury problems. Humber, Niemann, Townsend, Baugh, Savery, etc. etc.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
He was Roger Clemens pitching coach too.
And he broke his shoulder, but Andrews was able to put it back together.
Tools Whore
I still like Chris Nelson
please Friedman! you heard my prayers for Burrell. now I kindly beseech you again
You only get 3 wishes do you really want to burn them up this early in the game?
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
10/2/09
After that it’s in B.J.’s hands
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
SOUVENEIR CITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Fuck no
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
McDaniel believes he's the GOAT.
2 ones and Kyle Orton?
Tools Whore
Orton is the steal of this
Him and B-Marsh (UCF) are going to go wild on weak AFCW defenses
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
I know I am a huuuge Orton fan mostly because he likes Cougars, Whiskey, and handing the ball off
two of my three favorite things. Plus he can rock the best beard in Colorado since Plummer said Fuck the Bucs
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Do you have a tracking number for my prize?
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Dammit man what are you waiting for
Make it a goal to step out of your dorm today and drop that thing off time is of the essence.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
I hope there is not shit anywhere
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Agreed
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Yo, Keith
Can you get one of your espn colleagues to go to buc’em? I think buc’em really needs it, some of the fans are really clueless. Plus, this way at least tampa has a clue what’s going on. Again, Just a favor.
P.S. Anybody but Mel Kiper.
by CB,DT,LB,OR DE is what we need on Apr 2, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
This started out as a good post.
Then it went straight down the toilet. Please quit ripping Hammel until after we trade him. It should only be a few days. Thanks in advance.
I agree with RJ. Better this than another Dugout ripoff about smoking weed
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Apr 2, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus if anyone honestly think an organization is going to be teetered by what I write here
Than either you assume I have far too much influence or I should have a job in baseball.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 2, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't help but notice you're ignoring my burn.
I CAN’T WAIT FOR BASEBALL AND GAMEDAY THREADS!
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Apr 2, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that I've never used LOLcats before.
I think you should give me the power to ban people who are unfunny in GDTs
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Apr 2, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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