Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

The Tampa Bay Rays Rotation is a Mess

Of all the things I figured I would be writing about as a weakness, never, not even in a thousand simulations, would I have expected the rotation to be quite this horrendous. Look at our StatCorner page. That's all five starters with below league average tRAs. Look at our FanGraphs page. We have one starter with a sub-4 FIP, two with a sub-4.5 FIP, one at 5.42, and two near 6. That's simply awful.

Remember those qualms about Jason Hammel being about a quarter of a win worse than Jeff Niemann? Right now, that would be the least of our worries. With the exception of Matt Garza and Scott Kazmir, the rotation has yet to get multiple good starts from any of the pitchers.

Star-divide

James Shields had a decent enough start in Baltimore, but gave up multiple homeruns against the White Sox - and for whatever reason got a standing ovation because of it. Andrew Sonnanstine was decent last night, barring the questionable pitch location on back-to-back hitters that resulted in consecutive triples, and a misplayed ball in the first that lead to a run. Jeff Niemann fared well enough against the White Sox, although you would hope to see a few more strikeouts.

Shields has been missing less bats and allowing more homeruns. The most concerning thing - outside of an increase in walks and a decrease in strikeouts - is that Shields BABIP is a miniscule .244. His career BABIP is .299. That suggests Shields is going to allow quite a few more hits as the season goes on, and those will be of the non-homerun variety. The interesting usage adjustment Shields has made this season; less change-ups, more curveballs. So far, it's not working out.

Kazmir got squeezed in his last outing. Although I suppose that's simply the cosmos correcting the expanded strikezone he saw to open the season. I'm more encouraged by Kazmir than any other starter because the groundballs and breaking pitches are there.

Garza is like Kazmir. Two solid starts, then one disastrous one.

We talked about the issues with Sonnanstine earlier on. Each of the incumbent four are missing less bats than previously. That's not a good problem to have, and honestly I don't know what the problem really is.

Niemann's batted ball splits look about what you would expect from him. His .334 BABIP against is on the high side. The strikeouts haven't been there while the walks and homeruns have. That's not the formula for success we were hopeful he could mix.

If any of these problems are severe and persistent, at least the Rays have options a few  hundred miles away.  David Price is probably close, Wade Davis isn't too far behind, and even if the Rays don't want to start Davis' clock quite yet, Mitch Talbot is still around. I'm hardly suggesting replacing any of them at the moment or anytime soon, but if things absolutely take a turn for the worst, the team does have options.

Hitters are swinging out of zone on the Rays starters the second last in the majors, only to the New York Mets. Last year the Rays were closer to the middle of the pack. The Rays were also middle of the pack in contact percentage against, this year second to last, near 85%. Less balls are being thrown in the strike zone, but the team is still getting about the same amount of first pitch strikes. That means it's not as much about control or command, and more about stuff.

The lineup and bullpen have been easy targets for ridicule thus far, but don't just assume the rotation has been clean-handed through all of this. A rough start, yes, and one that the entire team has contributed to.

Comment 49 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from DRaysBay

Pena's May Struggles

May 2012 by jcmitchell - 69 comments

Toughness Quantified!

May 2012 by Whelk - 21 comments

The Ones That Got Away

May 2012 by Imperialism32 - 10 comments

Around SB Nation

The Beauty Of Opening Day

Apr 2012 from Pinstripe Alley - 135 comments

Opening Day Overflow

Apr 2012 from Pinstripe Alley - 556 comments

Comments

Display:

Cut the Shift!

It isn’t the starting pitchers, it is the “spraychart shifts” and insistence on playing the outfield ridiculously shallow even when BJ isn’t in the lineup. Gardner burned them twice in a game that should have been a Rays win, and there were at least three balls last night that a CF in average position makes the play with average effort. Instead the result is two of them being triples and Sonnanstine taking heat for giving up fly balls that turn into XBH due to poor positioning.

Especially with a guy like Andy, who when he gets hit gets hit hard, the outfield should possibly err a little more on the side of caution rather than this game of "baseball chicken’ that they are playing now. And losing badly…

by Doyouseeit? on Apr 22, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

walks

I would say that the pitchers are more hesitant to throw strikes with the OF playing shallow, and they are trying to throw perfect pitches to get K’s rather than BIP.

It’s a perspective…

by Doyouseeit? on Apr 22, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

wouldn't matter

If those fly balls last night were outs and Sonny got the win, there would be less concern over those categories.

Same with the Yankee game with Gardner’s double leading to Jeter’s two out HR to win the game. Jeter does not get to the plate since there were two outs. Extra AB for the middle of the order leads to more HR.

by Doyouseeit? on Apr 22, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not a retort to the result of last night's game.

Even if B.J. palys and catches them, it’s still not changing the fact that our pitchers are getting less whiffs.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

But there are a number of pitchers whose repetoire and mechanics have been tinkered with, and could easily be command issues.

My theory would have more to do with the fact that for the most part the Rays only attack the bottom half of the strike zone and rarely change sight lines up and down. Nearly every pitch when ahead in the count is not anywhere near being a strike, and it might be that the majority are in the dirt.

Kaz last outing was a pretty good example of a guy who pounds certain areas and pretty much ignores the rest.

by Doyouseeit? on Apr 22, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shiftiness

There is no excuse for Kapler to play at BJ depth unless the winning run is on third base with less than two outs in the 9th. As for the infield, I don’t mind having the shift beat with no outs, but to eliminate the double play possibility with Slow-Mo Thome did not make sense. Regardless I have faith that if the shifts mathematically seem to be working to our disadvantage, adjustments will be made.

by FreeZorilla on Apr 22, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that I disagree...

… but how many plays have been made by the crazy shifts that would not have been made by traditional location?

That would make for a great article, showing screenshots of shifts and comparing to a hitter’s actual spray chart…

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 22, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why the panic?

One bad outing from Garza and Kazmir are easy to forgive, especially given how good the first two outings went.

Sonny was awful against the Os but has put two solid outings together despite not collecting a win.

Niemann deserves slack. Getting comfortble in the bigs. He showed some heart pitching out of jams against the Sox. Outside of the first inning vs the Os, he has been adequate.

Shields pitched our best game of the season, but also has struggled. I’m not worried about our arms in the rotation.

Are there stats to show team’s fielding independant hitting? or team offensive swinging strike %? I’m curious as to if some of deviations from the norm can be explained by facing above average offense.

by FreeZorilla on Apr 22, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

There is no panic, instead I'm pointing out that the rotation has been an issue just like the lineup.

There are team offensive swinging strike%, on FG, and I’m not sure what you mean by fielding independent hitting.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Touche

Just was the first time I heard you mention an “If” scenario on anyone other than Wheelz or Boy Troy and at the position with the smallest sample size. By FIH, I mean a stat to seperate what a leaguewide FIP was vs a certain opponent last yr.

by FreeZorilla on Apr 22, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably shouldn't have included that if part, although it was actually placed to attempt and curb overreaction.

Go figure it had the opposite result, eh?

I don’t think we have anything like that. Although applying the FIP formula to team’s hitting isn’t that hard. Where’s RGlass when you need him?

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is a way to fix the bullpen
Kevin (San Diego): Heath Bell for Niemann and Hellickson of Tampa. Who says No? Bell makes just over a million this year and is arb. eligible next so he’s fairly cheap money wise and is an upgrade in Tampa’s pen.

 Jim Callis: (2:11 PM ET ) Interesting, but I wonder if the Rays would turn that down.

Pass.

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base."
~Dave Barry

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Apr 22, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy cow, that's a ridiculous trade offer

I don’t think I’d trade either of those two for Bell straight up…the two of them together and that’s a resounding No. I second what Tommy said.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Apr 22, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Callis reaction.

It’s like he honestly considers that even close to a fair deal.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people don't like Hellickson or Niemann

There are a lot of folks out there who think they both have #5 starter upside, and if you’re in that camp, then trading two future #5s for a good reliever isn’t a bad deal if you’ve got about 15 other guys who could also fill the #5 role.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Apr 22, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people are stupid.

Why wouldn’t you just convert one (or both) to relief?

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's to say either would be as good?

A lot of prospect people don’t like his stuff, and BA is one of those groups. So to trade a prospect they don’t like that much that is two years away to fill a definite need is not a bad move. This team is a lot better with a true bullpen ace, and Bell could be that bullpen ace.

by rglass44 on Apr 22, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not just trading one prospect, it's trading two.

And does a career 3.14 FIP qualify as a relief ace? Not to mention, he had homer issues before hitting Petco.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 22, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with you.

I am merely arguing that from Callis’ POV it makes sense. He doesn’t see Hellickson as a great prospect, and I don’t believe he values Niemann too highly.

by rglass44 on Apr 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Way too rational of an analysis.

Where’s the crazy optimism or useless pessimism?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 22, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Blame the playoffs.

Oh noes! Rockies-Tigers-White Sox disease!

Get ready, this will be a popular theory if the current struggles continue.

Today, we are all Honkballers.

by RATW on Apr 22, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Playoff fatigue has been happening for years

I realize the other indicators aren’t there, but the popular wisdom for 40 years now has been that a team won’t do as well the year after the first time they make the playoffs since their bodies aren’t used to the higher workload and shorter offseason. Haven’t seen anything that goes back to the original playoff expansion though.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Apr 22, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something else to consider is the late ST start for most of the starters.

Behind the curve versus most pitchers, but this excuse starts to fade when you get close to May.

by twenty5psi on Apr 22, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, "Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."

Please read our Community Guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
MLB needs to help bring All-Star game to Bay Area
Small
Who's That in My Old Seats?

Recent FanPosts

Images_small
Post-Game (Over)Reactions here
Small
Proposal: Rays play a series in Durham each year
Ag_-_hector_gomez_-_63_small
Visiting Tampa Bay from Colorado
Images_small
Immediate Reactions: Rays Win, But Likely Lose Another Guy
100_1952_small
Lawrie Suspension? Video: Other great blowups.
Whelk_small
Price vs. Alvarez Immediate Reactions
Zim_head_suttery_small
Superliga Stayin Alive After Five (weeks)
Images_small
Immediate Reactions: We suck again!

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Baseball Card Fans...check out my Ebay Auctions

Recent FanShots

Other Side of the Coin: Rodney's Fortune on Called Strikes
Does anyone have any information on Josh Sale? He doubled in a run in his...
Orlando Hudson released
Rays sign Garko to minor league...
Cameron Seitzer Growing Up Baseball
Longo injury apparently is apparently not good
Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Rays (Double-A Montgomery) Lee had a breakout year in...
Rays to sign Hideki Matsui to minor league deal
Molina Effect?

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Friends of the Site

DRB Suggestion Box

Drb4_medium

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Slowsky__1__small Steve Slowinski

Images_small Jason Collette

Brad_small BWoodrum

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Analysts

Small td32

Rutg_uakjmedjwh9ndzd4lkll_small Imperialism32

100_1952_small MrNegative1

Steak-with-crown_small CBJones

Whelk_small Whelk

Scaled_php_small mr. maniac

Tampa_theatre_small jcmitchell

Me_small John Gregg

Small SGrauer