4/7/09 Game Recap: Tampa Bay Rays Fall To Red Sox 5-3
We're trying out a few new things here on DRaysBay in terms of the game recaps. For now we're going to try and go with a round table discussion/open thread. A few of the DRB writers will drop in at different times and give their individual takes on a few aspects of the game. The goal is to give you a few different perspectives while not stepping on each others toes and talking about the same thing. Of course, we also encourage you guys to give your takes on what went right and wrong.
Carlos Pena was a central figure in today's game. He had a few opportunities to get the Rays back in the game, but each time he came up to bat the result was the same; Strikeout, Strikeout, Strikeout, and Strikeout. Strikeouts are nothing new for Pena; he does it a lot. He's struck out three times in a game 45 times in his career. Today was the seventh time he has worn the golden sombrero. However, today Pena showed a very un-Pena like approach at the plate.
His first two strikeouts came via the swinging variety on a total of six pitches, including his first strikeout on three straight heaters. His third strikeout would be a back breaker as Pena represented the tying run at the plate with one out. Pena would strike out on five pitches thanks to a wonder set-up job by Josh Beckett. On the fourth pitch of the at-bat, Beckett threw a changeup out the outer half of the plate at 87 mph. The next pitch, a 96 mph fastball, would freeze Pena and catch the high inside portion of the strike zone. The fourth and final strike out would see Pena frozen once again. This time was courtesy of Justin Masterson on an eighth inning, 94 mph sinker that painted the black on the outer half of the plate. On the day, Pena saw 15 pitches in his four at bats with only three of those pitches going for a ball. His WPA of -0.176 was the lowest of any position player.
Lance Cormier wasn't perfect, but he did show a few of the things that made me a fan of his. Cormier was able to pick up James Shields and give the Rays 1.2 scoreless innings. He held the Red Sox down by throwing strikes and getting three of his five outs via the ground ball, his specialty. A questionable seven pitch walk to David Ortiz would be the only blemish on Cormier's stat sheet. He would get a double play ground ball in the next at-bat, but the Rays defense was unable to turn two. All-in-all it was good to see some of the stuff I've been talking about with Cormier transfer into live game action.~Tommy Rancel
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As far as opening games go, this one was rather poor. Using Bill James' Log5 formula and plugging in last year's win percentage numbers, you would expect the Rays to win about 51% of the time. Take the road aspect into account and you're looking at what amount to a coin flip's chance at winning any of the games in this series. Today, we called heads, and the coin landed tails. It happens. Both of these teams are extremely well built and if you expect the Rays to play anything more than ~.500 ball against them, then frankly, you should adjust your standards.
James Shields was off today. Of course, he wasn't exactly helped by the strike zone:
Yeah, I really don't know about some of those pitches either, although a few of the "bottom" pitches were to Dustin Pedroia. Early on, Shields seemed intent on using his fastball. Throwing only one change-up of the first 10 pitches, that in the dirt to David Ortiz. As the game progressed Shields went more and more to his breaking stuff, although for one set of pitches he worked primarily with his change.
| Group | CH | SL | CU |
| First 10 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Second 10 | 2 | 1 | 3 |
| Third 10 | 2 | 0 | 1 |
| Fourth 10 | 2 | 0 | 1 |
| Fifth 10 | 4 | 0 | 0 |
| Sixth 10 | 2 | 0 | 3 |
Take poor control, throw a non-existent lower strike zone, and sprinkle in a few flatter than usual pitches, and that's James Shields' effort today. One other tidbit, Shields got five swinging strikes today - two on his change-up - that's a total of ~8.1% -- not quite at his previous levels, but acceptable.
Shields' next start will come in the Baltimore. Let's hope it's better than this one
Okay, now let's talk about the Rays hitters and the lack of patience. Beckett threw 11 pitches in the first, then 5, 23, 9, 14, 19, and 12. 63 fastballs, 26 curves, and 4 changes. . Most of the batters looked antsy early on and it shows.

-R.J.
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It was a shame the Rays struggled so mightily with men on base, because Aki Iwamura was setting the table quite nicely. In a game where Josh Beckett dominated the Rays lineup one of the only bright spots on the afternoon was Iwamura. The second basemen went 1-2, with two walks, a steal and a run scored. He also only struck out once, as opposed to Gabe Gross and Carlos Pena who whiffed three and four times respectively. Aki's two walks accounted for half of the teams total, while perennial 90+ walk men Pena and Patt Burrell put up goose eggs. It was disappointing the Rays couldn't get on base more, give what a weak arm Varitek has. They managed only seven base runners, but stole three bases. An extra base runner here or there could have made a huge difference.
Another player who didn't totally suck today was Carl Crawford. Coming off a season in which he was hampered by injuries all year, and I know this is based on an EXTREMELY small sample size, Crawford looked to be back to his old self. Yes he swung at too many pitches, and chased a few others out of the zone, but given the team's output his day wasn't so bad. After Iwamura walked to lead off the 6th Crawford followed with a double, giving the Rays men on second and third with no outs, only the 3-5 hitters failed to get a ball out of the infield. The middle of the order obviously won't be this bad all season, so if Iwamura and Crawford can put together more games like they had today the team should be just fine.
-Erik
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Not scoring with 2nd and 3rd no outs
was huuuuge
And maybe it’s just me but it looked like Aki could’ve scored fairly easily on Crawford’s double
I know it's only one game
But this exact circumstance drove me nuts all last year. By the end of the season, every time the Rays had players in scoring position with no outs and ended up stranding them and not producing runs out of the effort I was ready to punch holes in my wall. This stuff is murder.
On the plus side, just last year, in the 2nd game of the season against the Orioles, in the 8th inning of a game where the Rays held a 6-5 lead, Al Reyes stepped in and proceeded to blow up and give up 4 runs in 2/3s an inning, resulting in a 9-6 loss, immediately bringing back memories of the horrible bullpen that plagued the team in 2007. Ultimately though, that demonstrated to be more the exception then the rule last year.
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Things I liked:
Cormier
Nelson
Pena play at first
Gross stolen base
double steal to set up the Longo 2 RBI single
Things I didn’t like:
home plate ump giving away the outside corner like it was a free sundae
strikeouts at the dish (unfortunately I think that’s the way this season will go)
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
Cormier
3 groundouts to 2 other outs is nice. Hopefully he can stay away from the walk and maybe add a K or 2.
He will be very good if he stays within his role.
He’s in the role that JP started off doing last year and he showed how good he could be. We need Cormier to give us innings while it is still within reach. By no means is he a fireman.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 8, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok my below post was supposed to be to this, but seriously...
….do we have to keep doing this.
We moved Edwin to save money and because we had lots of people in line behind him. Do you think we would have gotten Joyce for Sonnanstine. You have to do what it takes to replenish the system. If he has a good season, that’s fabulous. So will Sonnanstine, and for less money.
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Apr 7, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
*phew*
My memory is not so good. It’s been a long day. Glad you agree!
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Apr 7, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Whenever any regular here even remotely implies regrets for trading away Edwin, it's sarcasm.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
But he did pitch 7.1 innings, 4k v. 1BB
We messed up. We should have never traded him.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
OMG U R SOOOOOOOOO WRONG
EDWIN SUX WAKE UP AND REALISE IT
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 7, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Kericr, are you going to PAX this year?
by Erik Hahmann on Apr 8, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
If everything works out with this job I'm doing now, it's possible.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
Edwin gets no respect on this board

I would like to think of myself as a regular and while I don’t “regret” trading jackson. I do think our rotation would be better with him instead of Niemann. But he was traded to clear a spot for Price and obviously Price>Ejax. I wasn’t always a Edwin fan, but grew to be one last year. I think I usually have a special affinity for players who get what I perceive as an unfair rap. I think Edwin is a lot better then most of you give him credit for.
Saying this I definitely agree with the trade and I am excited at the prospect of Joyce turning into an above average regular for us.
Is this really the best place to put Edwin updates?
We’re putting together a ton of good info in this post within a ridiculously short period and one of the first comments is about Edwin Jackson? That’s irritating.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 7, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Also don't get this twisted.
I hope he does well, I just don’t care what he does on a start-by-start basis.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 7, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Simmer down man
It’s a game recap post. We all acknowledge you and Tommy work your asses off to get stuff pulled together, but you shouldn’t get grumpy about people commenting on other games besides the Rays.
by ReasonableDoubt on Apr 7, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i didn't think it was worth creating a fanpost over it. moreover, i didn't think it would ruffle any feathers. i figured the post-game recap was just a general comment thread. guess not.
It's fine.
I’m sorry for the assholeish reply.
Rough day.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 7, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This would be it.
I misunderstood the purpose of this thread, and the first thing I saw after my edit was that comment. I didn’t know Tommy dictated this an open thread.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 7, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackson Updates
Its not so much that we traded Jackson (an excellent-5th pitcher)…..Its what we got for him!
A future minor league player…
That's asinine.
If you’re going to make outlandish claims, back them up. There is nothing in Joyce’s profile that suggests he’ll be anything less than a league average player. And there is a good chance he’ll be better than that.
Tools Whore
"Joyce to Minors"
Wait till next week! Then were stuck in right field again…Gabe, Gabe or who knows?
He's not going to the minors because he sucks.
He’s going to work on becoming an everyday player.
www.draysbay.com
You're still not making an argument that's he's not good.
David Price got sent to the minors, so did 9 out of our top 10 prospects (depending on who’s ranking them). So by your logic, the only one of our prospects that even has a chance to be decent is Jeff Niemann.
Tools Whore
If you want to say things that don't make any sense
and expect people to agree with you or at least not challenge you, this is not the board for you. If you’d like to back up your opinion, we’ll be glad to listen. If not, perhaps a place like The Heater is a better place for you.
Tools Whore
We're* for one
“Stuck in right field again”
Please read.
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/5/709471/average-bad
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/9/715468/more-average-talk#11283253
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 8, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
BACK IT UP WITH FACTS!!!!!
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 8, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Here are the 'FACTS'
WE gave up a top flight pitcher (14 wins), proven to be a major league starter.
WE got a player who would now be playing in the minors if everyone was healthy.
Whether he will help this year or any year nobody knows?
The only known product was given away!
Would someone tell me if I missed anything……???
Certainly not his performance yesterday…I seen that! …On the bench today!
Prod me with a chainsaw soaked in AIDS blood.
For the love of all that is holy, read:
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/1/26/736782/the-draysbay-stats-guide
Reference this:
Star-divide
Pitching
Win/Losses/Saves
Absolutely have zero value. If Scott Kazmir is on the mound, goes five, gives up five runs, and has his team bomb the opposing starter for seven, he’s in line for a win. If James Shields pitches eight, gives up a lone run, and the opposing starter shuts the Rays down, Shields might get charged with a loss. Troy Percival can walk the bases loaded, allow two sac flies, and as long as he kept the lead, get credited with a save. W/L/S do not speak for a players actions, but rather his team actions. Starters on good teams will probably have more wins than starters on poor teams, the same goes for saves.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 8, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackson didn't get the win yesterday. That was a piss-poor pitching performance by him. I'm glad we traded him.
Boy, that’s full of all kinds of mixed signals.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
What?
The same guy that quotes meaningless facts all day…..
Says “Win/Losses/Saves have zero value”.. I’m going to save this one for your next ridiculous post about some players stats..
Next year the Cy Young award is going to be given for “teams actions”!
Please pass the chainsaw!
...
Go be an idiot somewhere else.
Thanks much.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 8, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're trolling you should stop
If you are serious you may just want to check out another site. Innovative stats may not be your thing.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 8, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Add some exclamation points.
Then make some comments you have no way of backing up with anything other than dumbass logic.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 8, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
From now on
when people get banned we should just start using their email address to sign up for free porn. That way we get free porn and they get the spam.
Wins mean nothing.
Jackson was not a good pitcher last year. He got lucky and had a great defense behind him. Please don’t use wins. It also isn’t a zero-sum game. If we keep Jackson, then not only do we have to pay him, but we have to lose another person on the 25-man roster (likely Niemann or Cormier). Throw in the fact that it also opened up a spot for Niemann for now and Price later, and you get that upgrade too. So Joyce+Niemann+Cormier+Price>Jackson
So at the time you were against the Zambrano for Kazmir trade?
Or the Bagwell for Larry Anderson trade?
Or any trade where a proven Major league starter was traded for a guy that is about to burst on the scene?
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
The thing I liked...
about this game was when Boston put in Masterson- Longo’s arch-enemy- with 2 on. He came through with a single to make the game a bit more tense for the Sox.
Much like everyone else, I didn’t like all the strike-outs….but I think as the year goes on this group can improve on that.
Very nice analysis
That’s great stuff Tommy and Erik. I thought he threw a few more sliders early on – though I know the difference between slider/cutter is slim. But they looked to have more break and noticed them because it looked like a new wrinkle to his arsenal. I guess we’ll see if my eyes were deceiving me as the season goes on (I’m assuming you got that pitch breakdown via Gameday). Agreed on Cormier as well – he and Nelson certainly did their job and gave the offense a chance.
I was never a big Magrane fan but the lack of Rays knowledge from Kennedy leaves something missing in the telecasts. I know it’s not his fault, but one could easily sense that 99% of the posters at this site know more about the Rays than he does. I cringe when I hear him say something like “the few times I’ve seen Shields”. Again not his fault and something I’ll get used to but it’s going to take some time.
Let’s hope we get that coin flip tomorrow.
Ditto on Kennedy
I missed Magrane. It was nice to see Nelson not give up a HR too.
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Apr 7, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
once he knew he got the job he should have asked for a bunch of tapes of last years rays games and watched them. Get to know the team before the season not during
Good heavens
Mark Grace and the Arizona play-by-play guy can’t stop criticizing Justin Upton. This is worse than Magrane’s BJ hate by a mile.
Tools Whore
Magrane would criticise BJ back when he first go called up
for not using his lower body. Last year, Magrane damn near had “happy moments” talking about how great BJ is. Perhaps that is my take.
In the name of Shinji Mori, we shall win!
by thebaddancingraysfan on Apr 7, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Tough game, but the Red Sox earned the win
with annoying hits, at the right times. I liked Kennedy a lot in the booth, I did think he reminisced a bit much on his “managing” days. I thought Joyce played a “serviceable” center field, much better then Zobrist would have done. I am dissapointed in Burrell on jumping on some bad pitches and not working the count a bit more. Let’s forget about this one and look forward tot eh next 161! Go Rays go!
In the name of Shinji Mori, we shall win!
by thebaddancingraysfan on Apr 7, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions
Shields will never be
a true #1 till he can pitch on the road
Shields just doesn't seem to like pitching in Fenway(let alone when it's cold out).
That and Beckett was throwing gas out there today.
Enter Scott Kazmir……
We should get 1
FYI: This always happens. 1st 20 games since 2005:
2005 – 8-12
2006 – 8-12
2007 – 9-11
2008 – 9-11
Good or bad, this team has pretty much started the same way the last 4 years.
Check out my blog on web development at kericr.wordpress.com
Not a good showing
i thought Shields was terrible. He was missing his spots and walking people. I am amazed five runs is all they got. The sixth inning made me sick…Bartlett and AKi setting the table with the double steal. Then a Longoria foul out, pena strickout and burrel tapper to short. That cant happen. Bad news is…Looks like Josh Beckett is back to being Josh Beckett
we can win the division and not have much success at fenway. i think we won only 2 games at fenway all of last year's regular season.
As long as we keep up the dominance at the Trop against the Soxs,
we will be fine.Thats how last season went.The home team won all of the series(besides that last series where the Rays took 2 of 3
I'm just worried about the process
We are definitely going to lose games. I just want us to play good fundamental (not in the traditional sense) baseball. If we do that we have the talent to win tons of games and we will win tons of games. We didn’t totally do that today, but we did a lot of things well. Crawford played excellent with the stick and in the field. The problem was just hitting and moving runners over.
We just have a disconnect between offense and defense. On defense we seem to understand the run values, probabilities, and win probabilities constantly change. Hence why we shift like mad. On offense we don’t seem to do that. We seem to treat nearly all situations the same (hitters at least). When you don’t do that you aren’t taking into account the new values of each outcome. The ideal way would be that we would constantly behave based on the changing values in each scenario. If we did this would average out to the average that we currently peg to.
Interesting dichotomy....
I’m just worried about the process
Crawford played excellent with the stick and in the field. The problem was just hitting and moving runners over.
I'm not sure your point
He played very well. His play throwing the guy out at 3rd was very good baseball. CC sure has his problems, but I’m not sure how you can nitpick about his play yesterday. He scored a running from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Had an XBH. Played great defense. What more do you want?
The issue of processes and CC and moving runners over.
CC’s ABs do not equal good processes. Moving runners over is not good processes.
Scoring runners from 3rd base and less then 2 outs is excellent process
If done consciously in the majority of scenarios.
I really can’t imagine a scenario in baseball that more emphasizes a good process.
You need to adjust your values based on the given situations instead of just sticking with the average for all scenarios. Remember your averages are made up of those exact scenarios. Being able to adjust your approach based upon the changing values of K’s, Singles, FBs, GBs etc in such a scenario is extremely critical.
When you say getting runners over.
That isn’t what comes to mind, to me at least. I think hitting it to the right side of the IF to move the guy over to third or bunting. Not necessarily good processes. I don’t disagree that the approach needs to be addressed with x23 and 0 outs. Striking out there is just not an option.
I understand
Something like this is hard to determine what is a true good process. Perhaps CC just got lucky by hitting the ball in the air? However if he adjusted his approach at the plate in order to have a higher probability of hitting into a good outcome than that is truly a good process.
Basically I’m just saying I think a good process in this general scenario is for the batter to understand the value of a K (and pop up) has become far worse while the value of a GB, FB, and 1B have gone way up and adjusts accordingly. If the hitter had a good process his K rate should plummet in such a scenario.
When we are talking about the typical moving runners over (as you mentioned) I don’t think the values of the outcomes changes that significantly to make a significant change of approach at the plate. Of course the score and situation could change that. But I’m in agreement that in the vast majority of the time bunting and changing your approach (to say hit a GB to the right side to move a runner to 3rd) is the wrong move.
Pitch Chart
I’m sure it has been explained on here before. Are the charts shown above supposedly pitch location (and not break data).
Also, what is the Shields chart showing, seems to be about 20-30 pitches?
Shields chart is balls called.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Apr 8, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Ooooh...
Now that image actually makes me mad. I thought he was getting squeezed. Where can I find the same type of chart for Beckett’s strike zone yesterday (for comparison’s sake)?
B Rad the Ray Fan
Much like Shields above
Some of those aren’t even close, I thought that ump was doing a pisspoor job, but without pitch f/x or k-zone or whatever on the game it was hard to tell. I didn’t want to sound like a whiny bitch to the people I was watching with, but that 9th was tough. Pap Smear was getting everything away as well.
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 8, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
if we could win one in boston we woill be ok.
who has the better chance for a win? kaz or garza thursday?
Lester is going to get Burrelled over this game
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 8, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

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