The Time is NOW Joe!

by ConnorManning on May 1, 2009 8:23 AM EDT Comment 74 comments

After witnessing the shalacking of the Red Sox last night and being enthralled in "how great" it would have been to see Mathew get his no-no against the Red Sox, then came the disturbing fact. If Dioner Navarro had been catching just how many of those runs would be off the board? I believe it may have been a MUCH closer game if the hitless round man from Venezuela had been in the game. Consider these stats:

1-HR, 3 -RBI, 181 BA, .192 OBP, .264 SLG%, 1-bb, 14 K'S 13-H, 72 AB's

That my friends is totally unacceptable! Oh, wait, do I hear all the naysayers and what great defense Navi plays and what a great game he calls EHHHHHHHHH! :::Buzzer::::. I liked the game Hernandez called last night and caught, how 'bout you? Moreso Hernandez has something Navarro hasn't had all season, a multi-hit game! He also has 1 -HR & 3 RBI as does Navi in just 14 AB's.

Call me negative if you must but Doiner needs a one way ticket to Durham or even Montgomery. He is absolutely killing this ball club being in the line up. It's not just the multi-hit game and HR of Hernandez last night. It was the night before with Navarro batting behind Pat "I used to be the bat but Navi hits behind me" Bat Burrell. Burrell on 3rd in the 2nd, 1 - out, Navi hits a little pop out to LF. The run doesn't score. Later in the game he comes up with 1 - out, runners on 2nd & 3rd and he hits a deep fly ball to 2nd base.

People are asking questions what to do with the offense. The answer is getting Navarro the hell out of it. This team cannot perform with the automatic out in it every single night.

My rant is over, defend Navarro if you must. The bottom line is this team is a better team with Navarro not on it. Play Hernandez, Jaso, Riggans when he's back to health. Anyone but DOINER!

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Did I wake up in 2007?

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on May 1, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

first half 2007 called and wants the dioner navarro fan exacerbation station back. im inclined to give it to them.

5 dollar foot loooooong

by HAHAHA OH WOW on May 1, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

YOu'RE BACK! :D

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on May 1, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Sirs,

There are far too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three.

P.S. I am not a crackpot.

by ReasonableDoubt on May 1, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

heh

DOINER

by PlayOnWords on May 1, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How would that be pronounced?

DOY-ner or DO-I-NER?

by R.J. Anderson on May 1, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Dee yoner? Heh heh, that's a funny name" - Rangers broadcasters (2007)

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 1, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's funnier as DOY-ner

But I turn eight on Tuesday so what do I know.

by PlayOnWords on May 1, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just noticed taht DOINER should probably be punctuated thusly:

Doin’ ’er

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

*that

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

THE TIME IS NOW, JOE.

TO MAKE RASH DECISIONS BASED ON ONE GAME BY A CAREER MINOR LEAGUE.

TO COMPLETELY UPSET WELL-LAID PLANS, DESPITE THEIR TENDENCY TO BE EFFECTIVE.

TO GIVE UP ON A 25 YEAR OLD CATCHER AFTER 72 ABS INSTEAD OF PAYING ATTENTION TO HIS STRETCHES OF QUALITY, OR THE FACT THAT POSADA AND VARITEK WEREN’T FULL TIMERS UNTIL THEY WERE 27-28.

by Suttree on May 1, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs

I rec'd this fanpost, I recommend you do the same.

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 1, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You little rebel you.

Rec’ing posts and arguments you don’t actually agree with solely for the sake of comedy.

by Suttree on May 1, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rash Decision or smart decision?

The fact is anyone can play to Navi’s level because he is not an athletic type player. I’d rather have anyone in there rather than Dioner <— got it right this time. Even a season ago I didn’t consider Navarro anything more than avg. and it was his career year. If Dioner was in shape and svelt and looking like a stallion ready to burst from the seems like Upton maybe I’d have a different view. When your short, overweight, slow and non-athletic it’s time to give another a shot at the catchers position.

Hey, thast’s just my view. I understand he’s 25, I just don’t see any upside to Navarro.

by ConnorManning on May 1, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Pudge Rodriguez guy was really svelt.

So I see where you’re coming from.

It’s not like Navarro was a top minor league prospect in the Yankees organization and put up a .750 OPS as a 24-year old. Clearly that doesn’t equate with upside – being young, having room to grow as a baseball player and still putting up good numbers in a position notorious for late bloomers.

by Suttree on May 1, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah cause there's just so many catchers that look like "a stallion ready to burst from the seams"

Hernandez has one good game, the first of his career, and you want to make him a starter? And I don’t really think Garza’s pitching had much to do with Hernandez

by rays1234 on May 1, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is kinda creepy.

Why do you care what a player looks like? Billy Beane was a total hottie and he sucked.

by mittens on May 1, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"We're not selling jeans here."

Too bad that was applied to Jeremy Brown and didn’t work out real well.

by Suttree on May 1, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

right, and send upton with him while you're at it...

come on dude, it’s a slump to start the season. he’s a proven hitter over seasons now, he’ll figure it out and everything will be fine…

by davidsmarch on May 1, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, your wish will not be granted

Shawn Riggans, on the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis, is aiming to catch Matt Garza’s scheduled May 10 start in Boston.
Riggans is feeling less discomfort and is hoping to begin a rehab assignment next week. He was placed on the disabled list retroactive to April 10 and is eligible to return at any time

2010 Rotation: 1. Shields 2. Kazmir 3. Garza 4. Price 5. Davis with Hellickson knocking on the door, it keeps getting better and better

by joeybw on May 1, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's just hope Navarro's getting the bus ticket to Durham & not Hernandez.

by ConnorManning on May 1, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This seems intelligent.

Because Michel Hernandez has a great track record of success.

by R.J. Anderson on May 1, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's hit a home run at least once in every 10 mlb games he's started

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 1, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't Navy out of options?

Isn’t that why he was traded here to begin with? Maybe my brain is playing tricks on me though.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he still has one.

He got traded to us because the Dodgers had Russell Martin and Ned Colletti is a moron.

by Suttree on May 4, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot to add,

also the Cubs should send Soto back to the minors b/c that dude obviously just sucks…

by davidsmarch on May 1, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm convinced Conor Manning and atleast three or four other posters

are actually TGN1 in disguise.

by Suttree on May 1, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Stuuuuuuuuey! Friedchickenman! Start Casanova!

Today, we are all Honkballers.

by RATW on May 1, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

everyone but Pujols sucks

by daveh33 on May 1, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yawn.

Hey, it’s just my opinion. The earth is flat.

by bobr on May 2, 2009 2:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On the other hand,

leaving aside the silliness about demoting Navarro, he really does look bad. Does it seem that a lot of balls get past him while catching? Nothing got far enough away to cause trouble last night, but from my view it looked sloppy.

More to the point, am I right that in the 6th inning last night Navarro was supposed to sacrifice again when Gross was thrown out at third? It appeared to me that rather than offer at the pitch, he faked a bunt and pulled the bat back leaving Gross without a chance. Was that another brain cramp? Seems to me he had to protect Gross no matter where the pitch was, but he simply pulled back instead.

At least in his last AB, the out he produced was a decent line drive.

by bobr on May 2, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That deer in the headlights look says it all.

It was actually saddening to see the look on Dioner’s face. If things do not improve dramatically by the middle to end of this month I do believe Navi will be relocating for a few months. He needs to turn it aroung NOW! If the Rays are to compete and make the playoffs they cannot afford for a player like Navi and his performance in April to be on it.

by ConnorManning on May 2, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So who do you have starting when Navi goes down?

Riggans or Hernandez? If you think Navi gives you ulcers, wait til you get a load of these guys in full time duty.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 2, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Navarro has one option remaining,

so theoretically it is possible that the Rays would send him down for a while, but it is most unlikely. Basically you are talking nonsense and should stop it. There is little that is more irritating from fans than long range penny ante psychobabble.

Navarro is not producing right now, and it is hurting the team just as Upton’s failures are hurting and Kapler’s earlier in the season and others as well at various times. As Sandy Kazmir points out, there are no options to Navarro available to the Rays. Michel Hernandez is a 30 year old career minor leaguer who managed 5 major league ABs over 12 professional years, those in 2003, before being called up as an emergency replacement late last year when he did nothing in his 15 ABs to distinguish himself. Forget him. And forget Riggans also who is perfectly fine as a backup in those rare times when he isn’t on the DL but suggests no capacity to play regularly.

Navarro is a legitimate major league catcher, not a star (despite his all-star appearance last year) but a solid regular, something generally underrated by impatient fans. He is going through a rough stretch right now, but if you have even a rudimentary understanding of the Rays modus operandi, you know they will allow him to work his way through it. The pitchers did not seem to suffer from his play calling last year, nor did Howell or Wheeler or Nelson have any problems with him last night. He caught a couple of Kazmir’s good outings as well as the 7-1 win over Minnesota started by Niemann. I hardly think there is much evidence that he does not call a good game.

There is no urgency to finding a replacement for Navarro. He doesn’t need to “turn it around NOW”! He is one of a number of players who are underperforming, but hardly the most significant one. If anyone is crucial to the team and needs to step up it is Upton, and I certainly hope nobody is suggesting he needs to be demoted or replaced.

by bobr on May 2, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs

Sorry bobr..

He’s still shitty!

by ConnorManning on May 3, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

killer response!

BOHICA

by Mr. Tonight TB on May 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd, especially because of the asinine reply you got

by Suttree on May 3, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whenever someone gets excited over a hot/cold start...

I think of Chris Shelton in 2006.

“He started the 2005 season in the Minor Leagues before being called up on May 31 and hit .299 with 18 home runs and 59 RBIs in 107 games for the Tigers. He was their starting first baseman on Opening Day in 2006 and hit nine home runs in the Tigers’ first 13 games.

But that streak didn’t last and he hit .242 with seven home runs and 30 RBIs in his next 102 games. He was sent back to Triple-A on July 31 after the Tigers acquired Sean Casey in a trade and didn’t return to the big leagues until September."

He spent all of 2007 in AAA, and was only in 41 games for the Rangers in 2008.

by rayweaver on May 2, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I didn't see this mentioned but I thought Hernandez called a better game. I have always felt Navi might not be the best caller of games. If your not going to hit.. At least make up in other areas.. ala Varitek's framing and pitch calling ability.

by bucpimpin on May 2, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

his noodle of an arm

has trouble picking up his computer to rec your post… sorry

by Navi's_Navy on May 4, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd

By my love for Jaso.

by Vin on May 2, 2009 11:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well Hernandez is obviously not the answer, but neither is Navarro

I don’t need to rehash my bashing of Navi. I feel for his personal life, but he is just a below average MLB catcher. Perhaps he gets better. Like Sutree said many catchers don’t become good until later. The problem with that is Navi will finally be good with another team.

Here is the problem with Navi:

He can’t hit. Many people seem caught up in 2008. 2008 was the total abberation and even then he was barely above average in terms of MLB starting catchers. He was one of the worst MLB starting catchers with the stick in 2006 and 2007 and obviously is in 2009. 2008 is the outlier. His track record is one with failure with the stick.

Many people seem to think he has great defense too. So they see Navi as a plus defender with a good stick. Well the evidence clearly points to his stick sucking the big one. Defensively I think he is average at best. I’m willing to ignore the small sample size of passed balls, but his track record of handling the staff isn’t tremendous. It is getting better though. It is still average at best

Horrible hitter, average at best defensively….

This makes him about around an average catcher. Id say slightly below MLB starting catcher average, but not by much. Almost all catchers are better hitters than him, but many of the ones above him are bad defensively.

by matthan on May 3, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it.

He is not Posada or Varitek or I-Rod at their norm, but he is within the range of average and better catchers. In 2005, in 176 ABs in LA his OPS was .729 as a 21 year old. The next year in LA he was at .759 before the trade; at that point he slumped horribly for the remainder of the year and half the next. But in the second half of 2007 he was among the best offensive catchers in the league and remained so in 2008 when his OPS was .756. The outliers seem to be the 2 half years and the one month this year when he was poor.

For comparison, here are the career OPS of some of the starting catchers in the American league:
Barajas: .703
Zaun: .724
Oliva: .685
Pierzynski: .753
Laird: .692
Rob Johnson: .501
Suzuki: .733

Only Johnson and Suzuki are as young as Navarro, and before this year, Suzuki’s OPS were .735 and .716. If anything, Navarro has demonstrated he can hit major league pitching at a very young age and fit in snugly among the other starting catchers.

The one thing that bothers me is that until arriving in TB one of his strengths was his patience. I think that is one reason the Rays targeted him in the trade. That skill seems to have deserted him, but as he had demonstrated it early in his career, I think he can recover it.

In any case, if he is around average as you concede, that makes him a useful part of the team. I think he is better than that as he enters what should be his prime years.

by bobr on May 3, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

In a different thread I analyzed him using wRAA compared to other “starting” MLB catchers. I used a benchmark of 300 PAs. Navi was like roughly 25th of 29 in 2006 and 2007. 2008 was his “good” year and he was still only 9th of like 26th. 2005 and 2009 it was really low but those were real small sample sizes.

His cost is going to really fly past his value very soon though. That is the most worrisome thing.

I think his all around game puts him about average among starting catchers going forward. That makes him useful. But that still means half the teams out there are playing a better player at that position than we are. That isn’t championship level. That forces us to compensate with elite players, or at least advantages in other spots. Thankfully we have that.

In other words Navi isn’t someone that really hurts that team. He isn’t a black hole. He isn’t helping us either.

by matthan on May 3, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hernandez or Jaso are neither upgrades

I’m not calling for benching or demotion of Navarro. He just isn’t as good as some people in the TB area think he is.

by matthan on May 3, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please don't lump Jaso in with Hernandez.

One of those has a major league future.

by R.J. Anderson on May 3, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well I'm talking about right now

by matthan on May 3, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes considerably more sense.

by R.J. Anderson on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which one?

Looking at the depth the TB Rays have at catcher it is definately the weak spot in the system. My preference has always been Shawn Riggans who I just like as he’s sound behind the dish, can hit for more power than Navi, and plays ultra-hard. And he smiles pretty! As for Jaso, believe it or not he is 3-4 mo.’s older than Dioner. I have to ask the question, how does he fit into the mix? How does he at 25 and turning 26 later this season have a M.L. future?

After reading all the expalnations, #‘s provided, stats 101, opinions & takes on Navi I have concluded as I do have an open mind, Dioner is basically a back up catcher in the bigs. Yes he can play up to an average ability, but he cannot top that level by much having a career year as he did last season. Navi just doesn’t have a high offensive ceiling and is more inclined to struggle at the plate and be the thorn in the line up than an offensive producing bat. Being 5-9 and an un-svelt 220 lbs. causes Dioner to run a wee bit slower than most and hit into the routine double-play more often.

Maddon is doing what he needs to do at this juncture. He needs to protect the line up from Navarro’s bat by batting him last, often use another catcher until he does break out of his funk, and be patient. The only reason I state that is, there is no signaifucant upgrade over Navi. In the same breathe, Dioner is “NO” upgrade over Hernandez, Riggans or Jaso at this point the way he has been playing. In fact I’m willing to bet that the Rays replacement catchers have a winning % this season and have held opponents
to less runs while Navi has cost the team runs both offensively & defensively and has posted a terible record as the Rays starting catcher. I believe this is why this discussion has come full circle.

Either way it’s great to see C.C. light it up yesterday. When Beej gets on track this team is going to be devastating offensively. These two hot at the plate at the same time will get Carlos & Longo fastball after fastball. A sweep of the O’s would be just what the Dr. ordered.

Go Rays!

by ConnorManning on May 4, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

The next time you go an entire comment without making unfunny Navarro fat jokes will be the first.

This is really not worth my time.

by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You must be off the Rays payroll RJ!

Either what I’ve written makes sense( and that’s a SCARRY thought) or you’ve lost your paycheck with the Rays defending every move they make and chastising all writers of any criticism of any TB player or management.

BTW, you never answered the question of which catcher will have this Major League career you spoke of above? Jaso turns 26 this fall and has 10 M.L. AB’s. Hernandez is a journeyman catcher. You have to admit, it’s good to see a 30 yr old guy getiing playing time and excelling on the field. As of now Hernandez is the one who has the ML career going while I’m certain your reference wasn’t toward him being the ML’er you spoke of.

As of now, I don’t see Jaso doing diddly while getting the block from Navarro. Jaso shoould either be promoted and given a chance or traded at this juncture of his Minor League career. The guy does deserve a shot while Dioner is not playing worth a crap.

Just like the title of this thread. “The time is NOW Joe!”

by ConnorManning on May 4, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why yes, that is a scarry thought.

by ReasonableDoubt on May 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"you’ve lost your paycheck with the Rays defending every move they make and chastising all writers of any criticism of any TB player or management."

Defend the people who are paid to make baseball decisions, or random people who create fanposts like this one. Hmmmm

by steve-o1285 on May 4, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Random people who create fanposts who are named after the Retarded Manning Brother

by ReasonableDoubt on May 4, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To clarify.

What you’re saying is that you’re a “yes” man that has no thought process and should not post a thing here because whatever TB Rays management thinks it’s correct in your mind? Why have a forum/ blog if you’ve got a bunch of puppets going around saying “Joe’s right, Andrews right, Stu’s right?” Why not just go onto the Rays website where you don’t have to think for yourself and just read rather than being an ass hole?

by ConnorManning on May 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please check the Shouse post and thread.

by Suttree on May 4, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The "R" in RJ Anderson stands for Rich Herrera

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or any post that includes "Percival"

by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody on this website is a puppet of the FO.

And nobody agrees with every move made by Maddon, Friedman, or Silverman. However, it’s hard to disagree with most or even half of the moves they have made. It’s not just good results that have us fans of this regime, it’s good processes.

Plus, you’re asking for good replies after how you retorted Bob’s well thought out response? Please.

by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lamar sucks because Lamar was in the GM Position when BJ Upton was drafted.

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 4, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even get this reference.

by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ax ya boy kericr

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone got boxed last year for saying Lamar sucked, and this was the reason why.

And I joked that I couldn’t wait for me to ban someone like this. And he’s taking it literally.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on May 4, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO ONE DISRESPECTS BOB.

by Suttree on May 4, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Plus, you’re asking for good replies after how you retorted Bob’s well thought out response? Please."

“so theoretically it is possible that the Rays would send him down for a while, but it is most unlikely. Basically you are talking nonsense and should stop it. There is little that is more irritating from fans than long range penny ante psychobabble.” >Bobber

Bob’s well thought out retort? Sounds like a numbnut trying to tell people what to do to me?

The bottom line is this, if Navarro were in NY he’d be with their minor league affiliate at least by last week. At this juncture the way Navarro is calling games, playing defense and offense any catcher is better than him in the starting line up.

Give Jaso the shot he’s naver had is my thinking. If NOW is not the time, the time will never come at his age.

by ConnorManning on May 5, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, whatever.

Go log onto one of your other 10 accounts and send me another email telling me how big of a dick I am.

by R.J. Anderson on May 5, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Description, not insult

My comment about “long range penny ante psychobabble” was in response to this:
_____________________________________________________________
“That deer in the headlights look says it all.

Watching Dioner lead the team with 3-LOB last night and collecting another 0-fer, you could see the stress in his face as he was bumped into the 8 hole (and deservedly so) in last nights game. Navi realizes he’s letting his mates down and "the talk" may have been had with him with a trip to the big "D" and I don’t mean Dallas if things don’t turn around and soon."
_________________________________________________________________
I stand by what I said as it simply describes what you wrote. And notice that nowhere in the post did I imply you were a “numbnut” nor did I imply you had any impure motives as you have done to others in another of your posts. In fact, after that first paragraph, I never referred to you again.

As for telling people what to do, perhaps I should have softened it by saying “I wish posters would avoid psychobabble”, but I see nothing wrong in expressing a view that writing nonsense does not advance conversation.

I also do not see how reference to what you think would happen is NY is relevant to what the Rays do. In fact, in many cases, following the Yankees example would be disastrous for TB, from promoting “not ready for prime time” prospects to yoyoing them back and forth from AAA to the majors. It is precisely the commitment to patience that has rewarded the Rays.

Speaking of nonsense, here is another example:

“If NOW is not the time, the time will never come at his age.”

That is a meaningless statement. The Rays may decide to try out Jaso if Navarro continues to struggle, but his window of opportunity to play in the majors is hardly closed or closing. He is 25 and in his first full year at AAA. There remain questions about his defense. Smart teams do not overlook issues such as the need to develop or shortcomings simply because one of their established players is unsatisfactory at the moment.

by bobr on May 5, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, you're right

When the hell are we going to release Upton. 162 batting avg and 0 HRs? As fans that pay his salary, we need more from him NOW, BECAUSE IT’S ALL ABOUT NOW!!!!!

by steve-o1285 on May 4, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lamar sucks because Lamar was in the GM Position when BJ Upton was drafted.

In Play, Out(s)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 4, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

partly because it is his site

but I dunno, maybe he should go watch some porn instead. I hear Navi has been looking for job offers

by Navi's_Navy on May 4, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only disagreement I have is that I think

having an average catcher does help a team. I think fans often misinterpret average, expecting every starter at least to be star quality. But in my view, if a team has 2 or 3 positions filled by average players surrounded by 5-7 better than average and star regulars they are in good shape. And if those average players are at catcher or shortstop, the team is really in clover.

Perhaps another quibble is that I think he has shown enough at a very young age to provide reasonable hope that he will continue to develop and become better than average.

Now if he becomes more expensive than his production warrants, that becomes a different issue and I would agree the Rays ought not overvalue him. But they are not there yet, and I think having patience is the proper approach.

by bobr on May 3, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs