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Cause For The Wild? David Price Adds Spike Curve

One pitch, two pitch, old pitch, new pitch?(Photo By Dennis Adair)

Just a few days ago I wrote about David Price's wildness affecting his call up date. Basically, a poor K/BB rate and poor pitch efficiency have kept Price from making that leap from "unfinished" to "finished product." However, I did not know exactly what Price was throwing, how much he was throwing it and how effective he was with each pitch. Much of that is still a mystery, but I do know something new. Price is not only working on a third pitch, a change up, but a new forth pitch. In an interview with Stacy Long, Price revealed he has been working on a new pitch, a spike curveball. Now many of you may have never heard of a "spike" curveball, but you may have heard of a knuckle curve.

The philosophy behind the "spike" and the "knuckle" curves are the same. Some even call the spike curveball a knuckle curve, but as Will Carroll showed me, the grips are slightly different.

Star-divide

Knuckle                                                      Spike

Knuckle_medium  Spike_medium

As you can see, the spike has the index finger up with the nail digging into the seams. The traditional knuckle curve grip has the index finger bent. According to Phil Hughes of the New York Yankees, he throws a spike curveball as did Mike Mussina. Obviously, this doesn't explain all of David Price's problems, but it can go a long way in explaining some of the control issues he has experienced.  Those control problems have lead to the pitch count issues since Price is using the new pitch in game situations. Here are the words of pitching guru and Durham Bulls pitching coach, Xavier Hernandez.

"We'll see if it's a feasible pitch for him," Hernandez said. "The only way to find out is to throw it in game situations."

Another way the spike curve has affected Price's game is the decline in the use of his slider. We all know about the infamous losing of the slider, and it doesn't seem like he's really found that good slider yet. He tells Long that recent sliders have been "bad" because he simply hasn't thrown it enough.

Does this answer all the questions? No, but it does make me feel better than saying "Price is bored" or god forbid, "Price has lost it." Will the spike curve be added to the arsenal for good? We don't know, but if anybody has the talent to master a pitch it will be Price. We were hoping for a three pitch starter back when the season began, but now if we exhibit a little bit more patience, we could get a full four pitch starter.  And knowing the talent that Price posesses, they could all be plus offerings.  

(H/T Stacy Long)

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If he still doesn't have a feel for the slider, then that means right now he only has 1 plus-pitch. That sounds to me like things are worse, not better.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on May 11, 2009 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Niemann throws the spike curve.

It’s also what made Wade Townsend a first round pick twice. Unfortunately his elbow had literally exploded when we got him and doesn’t allow him to get the same depth on it anymore.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on May 11, 2009 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Is that what he's still throwing?

Another thing I haven’t noticed: the grip on his curve. We’re just assuming it’s a general curve ball here.

by morineko on May 12, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want to be really excited about this, but I don't think anyone

even a Deity Dinosaur can just pick up a pitch in one year and turn it into a plus offering. If they intend on keeping him down until he harnesses at least 3 pitches we’re going to be seeing more of The Giant than I had hoped. I agree with Keri’s first comment at the top, basically.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 11, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I can appreciate

him and the staff wanting another new pitch, but why don’t we focus on getting the change up to be effective. This could be overload and set him back.

With two pitches he wasnt MLB ready (starter-wise), with three he’s in the right direction, but to try and learn two new pitches when he’s still developing seems like it will set him back. Bad idea imo.

by Buc Wild on May 12, 2009 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

I think the change-up was already there towards the end of spring training

Again, we don’t know how much he’s throwing this new pitch maybe it’s once or twice a game, maybe its 10-12. WIthout the pitch f/x we don’t know, but hopefully this explains a little bit of the wildness.

Honestly, I wish he’d just focus on reclaiming his slider to go along with the change-up and fastball and work on the curve on the side and maybe more next year in spring training. He can definitely get away with three good pitches now which is what we need from him.

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by Tommy Rancel on May 12, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

If he could nail down those three (FB, SL, CH) that would be a nice mix right now. That Curve (or any other 4th pitch) could be brought along slowly, but to take a young guy who is close to being MLB ready and adding more to his repetoire may set him back.

by Buc Wild on May 12, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's not going to be able to add a 4th offering later.

Unless he busts his tail in spring, the minors are the only place he can comfortably work on using it.

by R.J. Anderson on May 12, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Info overload

I just think that Price is doing himself a dis-service, and the team a dis-service by trying to cram in this 4th pitch so quickly and without being absolutely solid on his other 3. It would seem that this is classic information overload to a young pitcher.

Of course, if this is at the team’s urging, then the fault, currently lays there.

I agree on the ST learning/usage of it as results dont matter. I’d like a strong 4 pitch Price more than a strong 3 pitch Price, but I’d also like him to have the confidence in whatever his repetoire is. Right now it seems we told him to learn a change up, he did (dont know how effectively yet) and rather than hone those three pitches and be lights out, he’s jumped to the 4th.

by Buc Wild on May 12, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Some people pick up the knuckle/spike CB quickly...

It has a completely different feel, but once you get the hang of it, it can be a devastating pitch. I’m glad to hear he is working on it. If he has 2 pls pitches, and a solid change and CB, then that would be fantastic.

by td32 on May 12, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess this means a knuckleball should be called a spikeball?

Nobody throws a knuckleball with their knuckles and, at most, almost nobody throws a knuckle-curve with their knuckles. The knuckle-curve is the spike-curve and will carrol is being esoteric.

by Thejeffg on May 12, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

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