Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

James Shields Battles Emotions; Bullpen Battles Fatigue In Rays Loss

Much like his last start, James Shields was cruising through the first part of last night's game. After three innings he had allowed just two hits, no walks and had five strikeouts, each coming on a swinging strike. He had command of his fastball, change-up and curveball, and things were looking good. However, too much like his last start Shields ran into a bit of trouble and lost his cool again. After multiple bloop hits and a costly two out error by Akinori Iwamura, the wheels fell off again for Shields and at he end of the fourth inning Cleveland had a 5-0 lead.

Normally, Shields gets into early trouble, but usually escapes with the game in reach. Then in Shieldsian fashion he goes and eats up seven innings and keeps the Rays in the game. However, the past two starts he's has just been a little too emotional. To Shields's credit, he always takes the blame for his performance and did so last night. He knows that his emotions have been his worst enemy as he has looked pretty good at the start of games.

"My emotions got the best of me," Shields said. "It's something I don't do normally. The other team kind of saw that and fed off it. The whole emotion of the game kind of went down. If I bear down and make some pitches after that, we get out of the inning. I put that on me."--TBO.com

Star-divide

Stuff wise Shields was at his normal 91 mph and actually threw more change-ups(30%) than anything else. Even though he battled a slightly inconsistent release point, he was throwing all of his pitches for strikes and may have felt a little bit of a squeeze at times, but this was hardly the Rays' only problem.

Location_php_medium

via www.brooksbaseball.net


As R.J. mentioned last night, Grant Balfour was around 91 mph on his fastball and he maxed out at 92. I don't know how concerned we should be as Balfour has lost between two and three miles on his fastball since last year. He has worked some longer outings recently going 20+ pitches for the second time this week. Hopefully once (if) the rotation rights itself, Balfour won't have to be an innings eater in the middle of the game. To Balfour's credit he did throw 71% strikes, struck out three and walked none, but tired out in his second plus inning of work. He also threw five sliders which is almost a season's worth for him.

Overall, the Rays bullpen has been overworked recently and we are starting to see that translate into a bit of ineffectiveness by guys like Joe Nelson, who has been steady this season. The Rays will turn to Scott Kazmir tonight, and hope somehow he can go deep (seven plus innings) into the game for the first time in nearly a calendar year.

 

Comment 110 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from DRaysBay

Pena's May Struggles

May 2012 by jcmitchell - 69 comments

Woulda Coulda Shoulda

May 2012 by td32 - 70 comments

Comments

Display:

The blame for this rests squarely on Aki.

Without his error, Shields goes seven innings and we win this game.

AC/DC + Tampa Bay Rays = Big Balls on a Budget

by Orlando Rays on May 15, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Shields

The emotions thing is so unlike Shields yet it has swallowed up his last two starts now. This is a tell tale sign of the team pressing.

Everyone, players and msg board alike, needs to take 10 deep breaths, and recall last year’s successful mantra of leaving the previous game behind you, good or bad, and making each game count on its own. This is Maddon’s biggest strength.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Release Kapler

Bring up a reliever. Our pen is simply gassed and the extra outfielder is not needed. Zobrist can just take Kaplers at bats for the time being. In a few weeks if we need an extra OF then bring up Ruggs.

The utility of having Kapler on the team is nowhere near the benefit we would get by having a new arm in the pen. The new arm would arguably be more effective than our tired arms and give our current guys a chance for a breather.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I actually kind of agree with this.

I don’t know if the Rays will take the sink cost, but we could use another arm.

by Suttree on May 15, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dale Thayer

Anyone? Gotta do somethin. It would be nice if Bradford still wasnt a couple of weeks away.

by BJ the Bossman on May 15, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

This has to make an assumption that CC is fine

Gross should not be in the lineup everyday vs lefty pitching. Still, if we are eating a cost, it should be Percy.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

We are officially 2/9ths of the way through the season

Pro-rated monies owed:
Kapler: $777,792
Percival: $3,111,111
Total Sunk Cost: $3,888,903

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

And that is chump change

When you consider how much higher attendance will be if we are in a pennant race compared to if we are out of it and playoff revenue.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Percy remains on the roster

it is still a sunk cost b/c he is completely unreliable and used in very limited situations. I don’t suggest elminating him as a way to save money. Its a way to improve a roster spot. We have to pay him regardless. A Paid Percy on the Street is better than one in the pen.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

And what exactly is the cost of Dale Thayer

The question is whether

Percivals salary + Thayers Salary with Thayers production > Percivals Salary with Percys production

I think the answer is a clear yes. The extra cost is very small compared to the large gain we will see in actual production

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cost

It makes sense, but good luck having Maddon walk up to the FO and tell them to cut his beer shotgunning fat ass buddy. Percy is around until he gets “hurt”.

by Buc Wild on May 15, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm actually more inclined

to go with another longer reliever (Talbot) to ease the strain on the other bullpen arms. As long as Niemann and Kaz are both in the rotation we will have this problem. There is no room for error for Garza, Shields and Sonny. Close by committee.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

I wonder if they are just trying to stick it out until Price is ready and Neimann moves? Who knows how long that will be though

by BJ the Bossman on May 15, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is no way for us to know

where Price is at with his 2 new pitches. If is showing little progress, they could potentially cut bait on the experiment until the offseason. if he is having any progress at all I’d rather keep him down there developing even if it costs the season.

There seems to be a contradiction between Friedman’s patience with development, and the idea that we are borrowing from future seasons’ payrolls to fund this year’s team.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree about leaving Price down at the expense of this season. Sure that may be in the best interest of the Rays getting the most “Price” time at his absolute peak. However it is at the expense of our best possible years. Upton, Crawford, Kaz, Garza are all running out of time here potentially. The longer wait the less of a chance we have at winning it all.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think

people are overstating how MLB starter ready Price is as a 2 pitch hurler. He would certainly qualify as starter but not a 1 or 2 and maybe not a 3. Its a huge sacrifice to make. He was an ALCS hero but that was out of the pen, a whole different animal.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think I agree on your point about Talbot

He seems like the most likely guy to ride the shuttle this year. Just because we don’t really care about him long term. Davis/Price we are more likely to treat with kid gloves just because they actually have a future here. That said, Talbot needs to show a propensity to get out ML quality hitters on a consistent basis. I didn’t see that last year, though I am biased by being at the game against the Sox where Kaz gave up like 4 dingers, 10 runs, and talbot wasn’t much better

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Last year

Talbot did not do much to impress in his 3 game stint. Those #’s are so far out of line with a much larger AAA sample size of 381 IP.

Last yr 9.2 IP, 3 HR, 11 BB, 5 K
AAA 381 IP 2.64 BB/9, 7.1 K/9, .64 HR/9

I’m more than willing to give him another shot.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

As am I, I just don't think he's the savior of the season that talk radio will try to say he is

The savior of the season is Beej, Shields, and Kazmir playing at their proper level. Also, this is probably pre-mature, but any chance we see Aki dealt at the trade deadline? I’m not even sure if he would be a Type B at this point and we have other candidates that can do what he’s doing at 2nd right now.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Talk Radio?

I don’t think they know who Talbot is. WE NEED PRICE.NOW. HES NOT TRYING IN DURHAM.

Price.Abreau vs Burrell.Percy.Hernandez.Bench BJ.Rinse.Repeat.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, you can make the same comp for Niemann

Apparently there’s a difference between AAA and the majors.

Another arm is needed – but one of the problems is that when you build a pen from guys in their high 20’s, it’s harder to simply option them to bring up a fresh arm for a week or so. And Izzy is approaching decision time next week.

There’s no guarantee Thayer or Talbot will significantly outperform Percy in the short run. Thayer’s BABIP must be extra low in AAA – his BA against and K rate are both pretty low. Will that continue in the majors?

But the mere benefit of a fresh arm to give others rest is valuable. Talbot as a long guy makes sense.

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm wrong on Thayer

his BABIP isn’t out of line. So maybe…

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Percival's run average is like 8 per nine.

I’m pretty sure Thayer or Talbot could match that at worst, and without the attitude.

by R.J. Anderson on May 15, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

But one could argue

that Percy’s numbers are skewed because of 1 very bad outing in a smallish sample.

Not that I think much of him, but it isn’t a given that the 2 T’s would significantly outperform him over the next month’s stretch of outings. The argument about needing a fresh arm in the pen is the reason to make a move.

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

My argument is that even if they pitch the same.

At least they won’t be out there in high leverage situations.

by R.J. Anderson on May 15, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't this on Maddon

as much as on Percy? I understand he’s bitchy – if that’s a problem, then you dump him or he adjusts.

After all, wasn’t the idea that he was “good in the clubhouse”?

I don’t trust him either, but the fact is he’s been effective in many more outings than not so far this year. RP’s are going to have crap outings. The problem is also who to trust to handle the high leverage spots.

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Results have been good

Processes have not, this was overdue and there will be more to come.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even in Talbot fails

hes more versatile in what he is willing to do than Percy. We need guys to pitch 2+ innings right now.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

but moving Percival – to which I’m not opposed – means the leverage innings have to be absorbed by others.

Right now the Rays pen is a group problem, not just 1 guy. I don’t see a lot of concern about Nelson after last night – what’s right about his process?

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pen Has Struggled

and quit possibly overuse is a main reason. They are almost struggling across the board. An extra long reliever instead of a designated closer could help solve that problem. Percy will only pitch in the 9th and hes not good at it. If Niemann implodes in the 2nd inning its nice to trot out Talbot to work into the 6th or 7th and save the rest of the pen.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fangraphs has us at 15th in Relief IP and 21st in Relief Value Runs

link
The innings shouldn’t be taking a toll this bad, the problem is that it seems like guys pitch everyday even if it is only for a batter or two.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems like the bulk of the innings fall on certain guys

And like you said it seems JJ Maddon uses every pitcher every game

by matthan on May 15, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe Jack

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

I don’t know how many times we went over it. Could Price pitch right now at the majors and be an average starter? Sure, but who wants Price to be just average?

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on May 15, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently you didn't get the memo

THE TIME IS NOW MADDEN

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol

I could be wrong though

by staplemaniac on May 15, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beej was 0-4 yesterday

That’s a .000 BA. Not good.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Price could be slightly above average right now

However I think the flaw you make is that you seem to assume that if we bring up Price now that he will never be the very good starter that we see him as.

The way I see it is no matter what we do not get very good Price starting until 2010. Whether he pitches in AAA or the majors this year won’t really impact that.

So the question is do we take a half of a year of average to slightly above average Price and sacrifice a half of a year of very good Price down the road? And remember the half of a year lost by bringing him up would be years down the road; when BJ, CC, Kaz, and Garza all could be gone. In other words we cannot accurately predict how good we will be at that point.

So if an average Price now means a pennant race comapred to no pennant race without Price then I say we do it. If we are out of it, or in it either way then I’m all for having him stay in the minors.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is fine too

We just need another bullpen arm. The added cost of a player such as Talbot or Thayer would be more than offset by the benefits it will give the team.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

A callup would be like 400K

That’s about a .1 WAR player from here on out the rest of the season. So far Percy is a -.3 pitcher. That means on top of the 3M+ that we owe him, he has cost us 1.3M in performance. I think it’s pretty clear that the time is now.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

To look at it another way

So far we have paid Percy $4.9M, roughly, and he has produced at a level of -$4.6M. That’s pretty fucking terrible no matter how you slice it. On the bright side, we now have a new worst move by the front office so that everyone can finally let go of the “Not protecting Hamilton is the worst move EVER”

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Colon'd

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Balfour may be a tick or two down from last season....

Which isnt too good of a thing when you predominantly throw fastballs. But he still has some good life on it. I would attribute last night to the amount he has thrown recently. Hell, because of Percy, he had to get warmed up on Wednesday night.

by td32 on May 15, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Of Speed Guns

The gun on TV is the stadium gun right? What about the speeds recorded by brooks baseball? They were less than the TV in Balt.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

We need to get in a brawl. I feel like aside from Garza and Shields, no one is pissed off enough about the losses. I know thats how Maddon likes it but sometimes you just gotta flip out and light a fire. Everyone keeps saying “our best baseball is ahead of us” and “we shouldnt be worried”. Though I agree with this, I think there is too much of guys that keep expecting someone else to step up and fix this, when everyone really needs to take responsibility. The main negative about a different guy stepping up on a different night last year is the fact that no one takes sole responsibility. I say peg somebody, talk some shit, and get our anger out. Maybe its time to show a little urgency.

by BJ the Bossman on May 15, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree

That actually has been a main difference between this year and last. I know people on this site don’t really put much stock into things like that, but last year we really seemed to play like a team that was having a lot of fun with each other. This years team is totally different.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

This gets my vote! We need some fire from this team.

They just seem so happy-go-lucky while they’re getting their asses kicked. I know Shields likes to scream in his glove and hit the dirt, but I’d rather see him trying to hit someone in the head (coco crisp). These guys need some fire!

Visit the Rays Revolutionary Blog at http://raysrev.blogspot.com

by Rays_Rev on May 15, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

My only concern...

is that somebody from our team might die without the protection of Johnny Gomes. It was also nice knowing that Gomes was also going to be one of the guys getting suspended so that an important player didn’t have to.

by nolesblogger on May 15, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe one of the Gabes could step up in Gomes absence...

especially Kaplar since he seems to be playing the Gomes role on the field.

Visit the Rays Revolutionary Blog at http://raysrev.blogspot.com

by Rays_Rev on May 15, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I put that on me." - James Shields

“I think it was just bad luck” – Andy Sonnanstine

by davidsmarch on May 15, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think these quotes mean much

Both of them typically are well composed on the mound compared to a Kaz or Niemann. Shields is simply a better pitcher. Sonny’s not making cheap excuses, just deflecting an annoying media question.

by FreeZorilla on May 15, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I technically agree

But it looks pretty bad when you are calling it luck when a guy hit a couple massive bombs off of you.

by matthan on May 15, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

That and he's hittable

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Translation

I smoked too much weed last night and ate three bags of munchies. And some cotton candy.

by BJ the Bossman on May 15, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

The actual translation

“I suck and I lost it”

I’m sorry but you do not go this long trying to fix your mechanics. At some point you are what you are. He has been trying to fix his mechanics for how long now?

by matthan on May 15, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

I just think he needs to accept his fastball isnt a killer pitch anymore, throw the changeup more often and pound the slider. To be quite honest, Kaz is still incredibly valuable if he only goes five every night but only allows a run or less.

by BJ the Bossman on May 15, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is the best my arm's felt all year

- Kazmir, Percival, Fidrych

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aren't they going to have to call Izzy up pretty soon

his 30 day rehab has been going since April 20, so he needs to be activated, released, or put back on DL by May 20.

Not that his AAA performance screams call up. Perhaps another sunk cost there, but it’s only $750K.

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope to never hear Cleveland Rocks

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually thay call him "LOOOKS"

out here in Anaheim where he plays – like the plural of Luc Robataille.

by nyyfaninlaaland on May 15, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lucky Luc

If it weren’t for him the building would have blown up in Sudden Death.

Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.

-Al Lopez

by Sandy Kazmir on May 15, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, "Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."

Please read our Community Guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Spts-shelton_small
The Opportunity of the Century
Ryu_small
This one goes out to all the chicken littles
Small
MLB needs to help bring All-Star game to Bay Area
Small
Who's That in My Old Seats?

Recent FanPosts

Images_small
Post-Game (Over)Reactions here
Small
Proposal: Rays play a series in Durham each year
Ag_-_hector_gomez_-_63_small
Visiting Tampa Bay from Colorado
Images_small
Immediate Reactions: Rays Win, But Likely Lose Another Guy
100_1952_small
Lawrie Suspension? Video: Other great blowups.
Whelk_small
Price vs. Alvarez Immediate Reactions

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Baseball Card Fans...check out my Ebay Auctions

Recent FanShots

Brandon Guyer out for season
Other Side of the Coin: Rodney's Fortune on Called Strikes
Does anyone have any information on Josh Sale? He doubled in a run in his...
Orlando Hudson released
Rays sign Garko to minor league...
Cameron Seitzer Growing Up Baseball
Longo injury apparently is apparently not good
Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Rays (Double-A Montgomery) Lee had a breakout year in...
Rays to sign Hideki Matsui to minor league deal

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Friends of the Site

DRB Suggestion Box

Drb4_medium

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Slowsky__1__small Steve Slowinski

Images_small Jason Collette

Brad_small BWoodrum

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Analysts

Small td32

Rutg_uakjmedjwh9ndzd4lkll_small Imperialism32

100_1952_small MrNegative1

Steak-with-crown_small CBJones

Whelk_small Whelk

Scaled_php_small mr. maniac

Tampa_theatre_small jcmitchell

Me_small John Gregg

Small SGrauer