Trying to Re-Instill Some Sanity - Part 1
Just a disclaimer: You aren't going to get any fancy graphs with my posts, I'm just not that skilled. Yes, I understand it doesn't take much skill. No, I'm not ignorant to learn, just more incapable and admittedly lazy. With that being said..
(I'm assuming throughout this entire post that I'm not going to have to defend stats like FIP, and other slightly sabermetric methods of valuing players.)
Maybe its just me and my defiance to believe anything that has happened thus far is real, but why are people allowing simply understood details to slip right under their noses. I'll start with what I believe is the more obvious of the oversights: Andy Sonnanstine. (Probably going to be the least controversial as well)...
2-4, 7.38 ERA, 40.1 IP, 24 K, 14 BB, 5 HRA
Oh Boy! Thats bad! I knew we should've traded Sonny instead of Jackson, just look at how good he is in Detroit. Well. not so fast.
Firstly, Sonny's FIP is at 4.72, a touch below league average, but not as horrible as most people want to make out (or as bad as a 7.38 ERA indicates). That being said, there are issues with a 4.72 FIP, as that makes him Edwin Jackson, and we didn't trade Edwin Jackson to be blessed with another (although we do have the little Niemann problem, but I'm not getting into that now).
While the League Average Strand Rate is closer to the mid 70s than to the mid 60s we're accustomed to with Sonny, he has consistently posted strand rates in the low-mid 60s. He has performed well, obviously, despite this, but it could be a reason for his tendancy to give up more runs than his FIP/tRA would suggest. More alarming is a 59% strand rate this year. This is bound to progress as the lowest strand rates in the league over the past few years have been as follows: Brian Bannister, 64%, 2008 - Jose Contreras, 62.5%, 2007 - Randy Johnson, 61.8% - 2006, etc. etc. (I do notice that it seems to be rising every year, maybe someone should look into that). Point is, he is due for some progression in this area even if he is bound to finish subpar in this category for a third straight year.
Another thing bound for progression is at .371 which would be 6th among qualifying starters (yes, he has been bad enough to not qualify...). Even with a disturbing spike in Line Drive Rate to 23.8%, his BABIP shouldn't be much higher than .350 (and I expect the line drive rate falls back around his career average of 18% the rest of the way, which would reduce this even more). This should progress, his .371 BABIP hasn't been matched over a full season in over a decade and even .350 was only broken twice over the past decade by Glendon Rusch in 2001 and Kevin Milwood last year. Just for reference, Kevin Milwood's LD% last year was 25.3%, and we don't have batted ball data for 2001, but Glendon Rusch's career LD% was 23.5% and his career BABIP was .334. Its not great, but a full .40 points of BABIP can and does mean alot (and this implies absolutley no progression to Sonny's past performance).
Lastly is some basic look at Sonny through Pitch F/x where I'm pretty much going to rehash things already said. First off, his curve has gotten better (most likely as a result of a slightly new release point). He is throwing more over the top, as his release point is about 1/2 a foot more towards being directly over-the-top as opposed to his more three quarters delivery of old. Despite the positive effect it has had on the curveball, it has seemed to affect the slider which has lost a bit of the vertical movement it never really had. The change-up has gained some drop which was to be expected with a more over-the-top delivery, but it lost a few inches horizontally. Anecdotally, the change in stuff seems foreign to Sonny, as his trademark low BB rates have been abnormally high. I'll chalk it up to changed pitch usage (his cutter was good in small doses last year, I don't think I'll ever know what has possessed him to start throwing it even more now (up about 20% from last year when he was already using it 30% of the time... ugh.). That being said, the velocities and breaks themselves seem to be stagnant (if you factor in the better curveball and tthe loss of slider/change-up decency), so despite my negativity I don't see why these pitches aren't going to start working for him.
I understand I could've been a little contradictory at times, as I wanted to throw out both sides of the argument, but don't be confused, Sonny needs to and has deserved to be in this starting rotation. At this point he is the third best starter in the rotation, and while slight things have changed there aren't any glaring issues as there are with say... I don't know... Scott Kazmir (I like Niemann too much to throw him under the bus).
10 recs |
19 comments
Comments
I'm hopeful people start recing well-thought out stuff like this instead of "The time is NOW Madden!!!"
Even if you disagree with the analysis, this actually brings thought to a topic instead of … not thought.
One thing I do want to add is to keep the run environment in scope. The average FIP last season was 4.3, this year it’s 4.5. Walks are up across the league, homeruns/strikeouts are about the same.
by R.J. Anderson on May 22, 2009 1:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats a good point to make
but people who do want to rag on Andy don’t look at FIP anyway (or else they wouldn’t be so averse to him throwing 88, oh noez!), so while I should’ve made a point of the run environment, I doubt it would help the argument in regards to people I’m trying to convince.
by Navi's_Navy on May 22, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most likely not.
I understand the inherent biases associated with pitchers. Watching Garza is a ton of fun because he throws hard, has good breaking pitches, and just looks like a successful pitcher. Watching Sonnanstine is more like waiting for the opposition to guess right and send one flying. The problem I think people have when evaluating Sonnanstine, besides inherent attraction towards velocity, is that they don’t attribute anything to luck or random variation. There’s a confirmation bias that some carry that shows up in most Sonny starts. A guy gets a double on a good pitch? Must be hittability. If that same pitch is thrown by Garza, good hitting.
I’m not saying that’s true for everyone, and I’m not saying Sonnanstine hasn’t underperformed expectations. I’ve went through too many Sonny arguments to not pick up some idea of why people seem to dislike him.
One of the best pieces of scouting advice I’ve received is to ignore the velocity readings during games, or at least try to. If you sit there and focus on the movement, command, etc. you get a much better feel for the pitcher than if you just focus on how hard he’s throwing. I would love to do a social experiment where we only show the pitcher throwing 10-20 warm-up tosses at full velocity and then have people choose who they think is a better pitcher; Daniel Cabrera or Greg Maddux. I think we might be surprised at the results.
by R.J. Anderson on May 22, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should add.
I don’t have a bias against hard-throwers and yes they can be successful, but not because they simply throw hard.
by R.J. Anderson on May 22, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
could be developed and would probably be beneficial to post up somewhere.
by Navi's_Navy on May 22, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
League tRA is up about .3 runs as well.
by Navi's_Navy on May 22, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be forewarned: this will not turn into another Edwin/Sonny pissing match.
by R.J. Anderson on May 22, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can only hope
As much as I like rubbing people’s face in their mistakes, this post was made as a fuel for discussion on Andy Sonnanstine in reference to 2009. Regardless of your views, the less we talk about Edwin and the more we talk about Sonny the better. I’m sorry for mentioning Edwin in my original post, in hindsight.
by Navi's_Navy on May 22, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sonny hasn't been Sonny this year either
He has been very uncharacteristic with the number of walks he has allowed, and I would imagine that he is going to regress back to his career norm of 1.9, while it’s a 3.1 right now. That is a big part of his inflated numbers to far this year, and he will get that under control.
I also think there is something to be said about him not being able to master the changeup pitch he tried to learn this offseason. He doesn’t throw it very much anymore after trying to use it in his first few starts.
by behn on May 22, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My memory sucks for this type of thing, but
Hasn’t he already passed his previous career high for BB in a game twice this season? Not walking people has always been Sonny’s strongest point, and if what he has changed leads to worse command then that IS something to be concerned about. He was really good last year, this is true, however that was because he didn’t give away free passes. When someone does guess right as to what Sonny’s going to throw, having a man on base in front of him leads to runs and that’s bad.
I could be wrong though
by staplemaniac on May 22, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, people fall into two columns
people who expect the walk rate to fall back to career levels, and people who expect it to rebound, but not enough for him to maintain his past level of production. I personally feel he is going to bounce back, that was the purpose of making the thread, but I can understand why people would be skeptical.
by Navi's_Navy on May 22, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
listen here Navi's navi...
or should i say, ANDY SONNANSTINE, get your shit together. you have been a winner and a strike thrower at every level, we need you back to form.
by davidsmarch on May 22, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not funny enough to rec
Sorry troll
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 22, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've got a totally unsubstantiated theory
that revolves around the baseball being harder this year – as in past up offensive seasons. If HR rates aren’t up that’s an anecdotal strike against in my mind.
Another possible measure of this would be a a higher hit rate on GB’s (harder balls travel faster, reach holes quicker). Curious if this is happening. Can’t imagine this could also impact LD rates, but it could if hits that would have been 2 or 3 hoppers are now 1 or 2 hoppers.
My questions for those here stat inclined are:
Is GB hit rate up at all?
Is overall LD rate up at all?
by nyyfaninlaaland on May 22, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TL;DR
Sure are a lot of words up there.
by putupyourDUKES on May 30, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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