Niemann, Kazmir, resting of players.....

by RayGuy3 on May 3, 2009 11:21 AM EDT Comment 12 comments

I'm not here to diminish the knowledge of our manage in relation to the game of baseball, but here to point of some observations. We drafted Niemann several years back and its taken him some time to arrive into the majors with any consistency. His velocity is not where it needs to be in comparison to his college days of 97 mph FB and 86-88mph slider. I understand pitchers hit a prime in speed and break on the curveball-slider etc..but I'm seeing things with these two guys that are way off. Niemann was consistent on Saturday with 89 mph FB's and 75-78 slider or curves one reached as low as 73. I'll now throw in Kaz, first came up with us throwing 95 with a hard slider and dominating hitters...Ok, you can say that the coach advises them accordingly in relation to remaining in the league, arm delivery and future and so on...yada yada. On to the hitters, many complain of the days off and resting guys that most teams wouldn't normally sit down. Why does the 2b need a break or the SS (outside of Barty being hurt) he's been very solid all year. Navarro is not included, he's showing some very scary characteristics in catching or blocking the ball and hot/cold hitting fluctuation trends. Someone needs to sit him down and have a "LONG" talk about work ethic and staying on the team. He's got some talent to be in the league for a long time. Simply put..... We're more concerned now about the future of the players than winning baseball games and its causing inconsistency in the development of our young players. Yes, we want to have them around for a long time but we need to win and in horse racing its turning the horse loose and that goes for the manager, pitchers, and position players. When we're dominating teams as we should consistently based on our talents alone, then start to rest those players. Sometimes we put more faith in the curvatures of graphs than we do in the individual wearing the cleats.

0 recs | Comment 12 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

This post made my head hurt

by Erik Hahmann on May 3, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I always wondered about the drop of velocity

I doubt the Rays higher ups are telling our guys to throw that much softer though

by matthan on May 3, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What is right with resting players!

You guys need to realize that the Rays are in the midst of playing 40 game in 41 days. Have you ever gone to work for 40 days in a row with out a day off? And even if they do not play they are boarding planes and flying to another city, checking in and out of hotels an then being asked to face someone throwing a ball over 90 miles an hour. I attended over 70 home games last year and was completely exhausted just going to that many games. We need to realize that while this lifestyle is glamorou it is definitley a grind for 162 games. .

by rayalan on May 3, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tell that to Nolan Ryan....

he’ll put you in a head lock …. I understand guys need rest, but that’s because you’re winning games and playing hard enough to earn that rest. If you fail at your job they don’t tell you to go home for a few days and rest it off. You better pick it up or your A$$ is gone. 90 MPH pitches to these players are like assembly lines to those people who work those lines, its their job. Matthan, Can you explain to me why those pitchers I examined are throwing drastically different? Scotty K’s FB is the main reason he was drafted so high to go along with being a lefty. When you lose that FB, you go back to being an average major league FB pitcher and his movement is sometimes lacking. Niemann is 6’9 260, he threw 97 in college consistently, that is what got him drafted, not 88 and no movement to go along with what looks to be a slow pitch curveball. Other than Garza and Balfour , we have average major league FB’s on our pitching staff and mistakes can’t be made. Sonny is proving it true right now as a starter……

by RayGuy3 on May 3, 2009 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You do realize Sonny doesn't even throw his 2/4-seam fastball, right?

He throws a cut-fastball, he’s the least fastball using guy on staff. Niemann is your league average fastball that can’t make mistakes. Not Sonny.

Niemann and Kazmir have had arm issues, Niemann more so than anyone else on our staff. It’s really not hard to believe he went from the mid-90s to the lower-90s. Kazmir hasn’t thrown really hard in years.

by R.J. Anderson on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes......

I understand Sonny throws a cutter. Any of those FB’s in the wrong location get murdered, he’s missing his spots bad. So what’s next for Kaz? I think Niemann is buying time until his next line of work…. whatever that is of course. Kaz was brought into the league as a power pitcher FB, slider… he’s trying to work out a change up which would help out, but I think maybe a slurve or something like that would be better than the slider with his arm problems. It’s going to take him a few years to develop into a control pitcher only.

by RayGuy3 on May 4, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Niemann is throwing softer so he can save his arm for his next job.

It has nothing to do with past injuries, he’s just quitting on his team in his first real opportunity.

by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It isn't just rest.

It is the effort to have the entire 25 man roster contribute and be ready to play. It is one of Maddon’s skills that rarely does a player get forgotten, a skill that works out in the long run-not by saving players from injury although that may be a factor too-but by having people prepared to play when needed.

In fact, the Rays are apparently now working with their non-star players in the minors on becoming more versatile, much as Maddon has done with Zobrist and to some extent Aybar. Brignac, who has been losing his status as an A level star will probably get time at 2B for example. He is looking to have a team with as many interchangeable parts as possible.

by bobr on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

?

Are you okay with that philosophy at 30-45 near mid-season? Are we still resting players like that when things are not looking good? Not saying our record will be anywhere near that, but it wasn’t too good just a week or so ago and we’re still resting guys. Call it interchanging, substituting, whatever you’d like, it’s not our most talented and best performing lineup. I hope Joyce really starts getting it going so we can call him up by mid-season and start him. Then we can play musical Ben resting one guy each day with Ben playing all the positions.

by RayGuy3 on May 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't question bobr

by Erik Hahmann on May 4, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes,

just as I was last year when we were in first place at mid-season and Maddon was doing the same thing. And just as I am impressed by any manager who knows how important it is to use the whole roster, especially when there are a number of positions manned by lesser players.

In any case, the criticism is not supported by information. The Rays have played 26 games, and the starters have played in nearly all of them. To wit: Crawford has been in all 26 and Pena and Iwamura have been in 25. Bartlett, Longoria and Burrell have been in 24, and I think there was a minor injury that kept Bartlett and Longoria out of at least one game. Since returning from rehab, Upton has been in every game (19). So the only regular who has missed more than 2 games is Navarro. In fact, as Zobrist has impressed Maddon he has gotten more playing time (appearances in 19 games) while the rest of the RF platoon has been in 16 and 15 games.

If anything, we might be wondering why Aybar only has appearances in 9 games rather than why Maddon is resting his best players.

I know a few of those game appearances were as pinch hitters for some of the regulars, but the fewest plate appearances by a regular is Bartlett’s 93 (batting at the end of the order) which still averages to better than 3.5 PAs per game. Again only Aybar with 30 PAs has reason to complain, not the regulars all of whom have 93-117 PAs already.

I think the criticism is typical of fans remembering particular games rather than looking at what is actually happening.

by bobr on May 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Resting of players.....

I’m not referring to our “big guns” in the resting of players. Anyone would be a complete idiot to rest those players with the inconsistency right now. I’m referring to the days when we have 2 substitutes in the same game. I’ve seen games where both Zobrist and the Gabe’s rotate in to the lineup. My point is I see comments by some who suggest have platoons at every position would be the best scenario to any lineup. For those of us who played baseball, you know that continuous starts are the only way to develop any consistency. If Zobrist is our best hitting RF, then he should be out there every day. Willy could play the same role of Zobrist as a super-utility player when needed. Our pitchers are trying to catch up from the lack of innings in spring training because they needed to be rested to make it through the season.

by RayGuy3 on May 4, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs