Butler improves record to FSL best 4-0 - Would any of you trade Gross back to the Brewers?
Seriously. I mean, I know Gross plays some mean defense and as of right now has a mean OPB of .385 and decent OPS of .742. However, I would take Ruggiano/Sadler/Weber until Nando is back. And I know Josh Butler, who was the young pitcher traded for Gross was stuggling when we traded him, I still thought at the time it was too early too give up on him. To further state my case, I came across this article on milb.com that shows Butler pitching lights out for the ClassA Brevard County Manatees. I know he's 24 and playing with a bunch of younger kids, but he appears to have come around and surely will be moved up soon. Check out this article and tell me what you think.
6 months ago
TheUltimateBucFan
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Oh cool, it only took him a third season in High-A to post a FIP sub-4.
If you would take Sadler/Weber over Gross you don’t understand baseball at all and I can’t help you.
by R.J. Anderson on May 3, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, this is his 4th season in A+.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 3, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he finally has a tra+ of 100 or better in A+!!!!
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 3, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sure about that?
10 games in 2007, 23 games in 2008, 4 in 2009.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Misread his move to Brevard as a different year.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His numbers aren't that good.
Let’s say a lot of things break right and Butler tops out as an average major league reliever, is that worth more than what Gross has already done with the Rays? Gross was a 2.4 WAR player last year.
But even disregarding the production Gross has contributed since he came over as well as Butler’s struggles the past two seasons in the FSL, Butler’s current K/9 (4.9) and K:BB (1.25) are just not that good for a 24 yr. old at the A+ level.
Today, we are all Honkballers.
by RATW on May 3, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even notice the declining strikeout rates.
Goodness gracious.
by R.J. Anderson on May 3, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, He's a 24 year old in A+, and currently has a HR/FB% of 0. Expect that to change.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 3, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally, the FSL is a notorious pitcher's league.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 3, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does have a good GB%
Watch out Lance Cormier.
Today, we are all Honkballers.
by RATW on May 3, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's always had a good GB%
That’s generally been his only bright spot.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Lance Cormier, except by age 24, Cormier was already in the majors.
Today, we are all Honkballers.
by RATW on May 4, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My answer is NO.
Gross contributed importantly to a pennant already. No matter what happens in the future, the deal was brilliantly successful for the Rays.
by bobr on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably not a direct correlation
The Rays acquired Gross on 4-22-08, On that date they were 9-11 and in 4th place. They were 2 games under .500 without him and 37 games over .500 with him. And you can’t overlook the fact that he played quarterback at Auburn.
by Fox 71 on May 4, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what being a QB has to do with anything, but you are correct
that it helps to have a good<x<great defensive player in RF
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on May 4, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised that you can't see the value of running the option play in right field.
It’s not used a lot, but it has it’s place.
by Fox 71 on May 4, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait for that Kodi Burns/Chris Todd platoon in RF
Can Jason Campbell play baseball???
Today, we are all Honkballers.
by RATW on May 4, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also can't forget that the Rays picked him up on 9-11 so Gross dedicated his entire season to the victims of the WTC attacks
And 4 is the number of game-winning hits he had last year. It all makes sense.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
by kericr on May 4, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to know Tebow will have some kind of career in sports after
he waves goodbye to UF
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on May 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever happened to the guy who used to play QB
didn’t start, but was badass for UF’s baseball team? He was black and built like a lineabacker, if that helps at all.
by Suttree on May 4, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Ward went to the NBA
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on May 4, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that
Do what you love to do and give it your very best. Whether it's business or baseball, or the theater, or any field. If you don't love what you're doing and you can't give it your best, get out of it. Life is too short. You'll be an old man before you know it.
-Al Lopez
by Sandy Kazmir on May 4, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deion Sanders went to the NFL, not UF.
Today, we are all Honkballers.
by RATW on May 5, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quarterback?
I have no idea. I know Riley Cooper plays both. I think Brantley does as well. Maybe you’re thinking of Kenny Kelly? He went to Miami though.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 5, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have little issue with the team trading Gross NOW for someone Butler-esque
But there’s no way I’d unwind the deal completely. And frankly, it would be ideal to hang onto Gross for the rest of the year anyway. Joyce isn’t exactly lighting it up in Durham, and while Zorilla is hitting very well to start the year, there’s probably been a bigger difference between their defense and their bats, and Zobrist’s bat will probably regress some as the year goes on.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You would have no problem dealing a 2-3 win MLB player for a 24-year-old with a K/9 under 6 in his third season at an A-ball level?
Really Brick? I know you probably aren’t a big fan of Gross, but we got better than that for Jason Hammel. Talk about selling low.
by R.J. Anderson on May 4, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy we got for hammell
has been atrocious.
by RaysTheRoof on May 4, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but a bit misleading.
In his first two starts, he pitched 5.2 innings and allowed 9 BBs and got 1 K. He also allowed 10 hits and 10 earned runs.
Since then, in his last 3 starts, he has gone 16.1 innings and allowed 5 BBs with 12 Ks, a significant improvement and not bad in itself. He has not been great, but with 11 hits allowed and 11 runs, but only 7 earned, he has been near respectable, and certainly not atrocious. In fact, that is a WHIP of less than 1.
I don’t know whether he has really been pitching better or is simply luckier recently, but the results are certainly better than they were at the start. For a 21 year old at AA, it is not all bad news.
by bobr on May 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a pure salary dump to make room for Joyce
I don’t think we’ll get much better in return, though I could be wrong. The only differences between Gross now and Gross when we traded for him are that he’s a year older and he’s a lot more expensive. The counterpoint is that GMs seem to be getting more savvy about taking defensive contribution into account.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if we wait until the end of the year, we'll probably end up giving him up for nothing
Since the best move would be to nontender him rather than offer him arbitration. The amount we might be able to get in return on a trade probably isn’t worth the risk of having an extra $2M of salary on the books if they can’t trade him.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd expect slightly more than we got for hammel.
Josh Butler was still a 2nd round pick two years out at the time we traded him. I think Friedman could get a decent hitting prospect for him.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 4, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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