just because he is having trouble in Durham does not mean he would have had similar problems in TB. And that if the Rays just let him use his two plus-plus pitches up here he would have been better than Niemann has been and earned the Rays an extra win or two which might be critical in deciding the pennant race.

But the more obvious interpretation is that Price, right now, is not a better major league starter than Niemann (even if Jeff is also having problems), and that contrary to the criticisms of a number of BP analysts as well as Neyer and others the Rays were right to send him down. We have to keep in mind that except for one game when he was pulled after 5.1 innings we saw him only in relief last year. And his stay at Durham was promising but not dominating or outstanding.

If, as I suspect, his troubles are related to his working on the off-speed pitches, we need to give him time to work things out in Durham and look for other alternatives in TB should it be necessary to plug someone into the rotation.

The walks were troubling. The ump seemed to have a smallish zone all night, but that isn’t an excuse. At one point he had back-to-back walks on 9, maybe 10, pitches and half of those weren’t even close. On the bright side, the leadoff batter is really the only person who hit the ball hard (one-hopped the wall down the LF line), other than that i think 4 of his hits were groundballs that just found holes. The amount of GB’s he gave up last night was like nothing i’ve seen before. It did seem as if he couldn’t find the zone with his slider and change. Not too much else of interest in the game other than Orvella doing his best to pitch batting practice.

The other thing that stuck out is that Joyce does NOT have Gabe Gross’ arm in RF. He was charging a GB and had a chance to throw a guy out going from 2nd to home, and literally rolled the ball into homeplate. He was in shallow RF and it first bounced 3/4 up the IF grass and literally got to the catcher rolling.
The second throw that stuck out was a hit down the RF line that the batter legged into a double. Joyce fielded the ball at the line, but not deep towards the wall, about the depth he was positioned, turned and fired to second and two-hopped the ball to the base.
Obviously a small sample size, but it left me with the exact opposite impression as to seeing Gross fire to 2nd Wednesday on Damon’s double.

Wasn’t he not pitching that well before last years call up?

Nieman sucks, Price not ready, Hammell and E-Jack gone

I’m sure if he gets through 6 innings, strikes out 12 and walks none allowed only two hits, everyone will start calling for him immediately. But then the next time he goes out and gets shallacked or is just average, where are we?

How good does need to be to be called up?

could mean his is throwing them more than he would in a serious MLB game, but don’t the results (the walks and lack of K’s) indicate that he isn’t throwing them for strikes or making people miss bats with them?

is akin to asking if I wish the Rays had signed Ponson or Pavano or Livan Hernandez. My answer to all of those questions is no, I don’t, because there was little reason to expect any of them to produce better than Niemann or our other alternatives and because I am very pleased that we received Joyce and could sign some relievers by making that trade.

Whether it is results based on hindsight or not, the question itself is futile. Dunn and Abreu are performing better than Burrell and are cheaper. Should I question whether we ought to have signed one of them? To what end?

As for Niemann, I think he is destined to become a reliever. But I would not give up on him so fast. In 3 of his 6 starts he gave the Rays a decent chance to win. He really is not all that experienced and may need some time to figure things out. I know the Rays cannot be as patient as they used to be with young players in the majors, but there needs to be some balance between giving up too quickly and sticking with a kid too long. I don’t know that 6 starts, 3 of which were not that bad, are enough.