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Around SBN: 2012 Budweiser Shootout Entry List Released

Death of the Boos

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, because I sincerely hope nobody who reads this site would actually resort to booing B.J. Upton over striking out. I can understand voicing displeasure over baserunning gaffes or clear displays of lackluster effort. People pay money to go to games, they have free speech, and so on. I'm not trying to oppress people into only clapping and playing along as cheerleaders. That's not my intention nor is it my act. I've made many, many sarcastic cracks about numerous players over the years. My point of discontent is the catalyst of the sounds.

Striking out, whether swinging or looking, is not a result which should be met with boos. Are we not at a point in our society where we can move past stigmatisms in the past given logic and facts that suggest strikeouts are only marginally worse than a pop out or groundout? There are a few situations where strikeouts are ultimately evil. A few. You know, when the score isn't 7-1 in the late innings.

Plus, at this point booing Upton is so 2008. Over the last 30 days, Evan Longoria is striking out nearly an identical amount as Upton and has a lower ISO (meaning he's hitting for less power than B.J.) meanwhile Pena has a higher ISO, but he's also striking out 10% more of the time. I don't recall either getting booed during this timeframe, and why? Because people know better than to boo those two just like they should know better than to boo Upton. In 2007 Upton was the second best positional player on this team behind Carlos Pena. In 2008 he was again the second best positional player behind Evan Longoria. This year he's having a rough go, but a lot of that can be traced to off-season labrum surgery. It's safe to say Upton has been one of the three or four best players on this team over the last two seasons, so why is it that we have to boo him? Do we not want him to enjoy playing here?

Maybe I'm a coward. I don't want Upton pissed with the area. I don't want him to leave via free agency and end up in Boston, or New York, or Seattle, or wherever. Maybe I'm just upset because he's my favorite player. Maybe it's because Upton seems like a decent enough guy who is yet to say anything bad about this area despite being the goat for most of last year.

Or maybe it's because of the double standard. Carl Crawford has made a pair of mistakes on the paths, as has Gabe Gross and Gabe Kapler without so much as a "boo". But Upton...Upton strikes out with the Rays staked to a six run lead and gets booed.

People can and will mention racism. They can point to Mike Alstott and John Lynch being held in higher esteem than Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. I'd rather not go that route, it's neither productive or up to me to judge. The people in this town with far more range in their voices than I can hope to achieve have dug the grave for Upton. He doesn't care, he's lazy, he's a thug, and every other stupid thing uttered.

I'm not asking you to be cheerleaders. That's none of my business. I'm asking you to not be sheep.

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Well said, RJ.....

It is utterly pathetic that people in this town would boo Upton. I dont get it. The guy has a great attitude, and is an outstanding player.

The media and local fans should be embarrassed.

by td32 on Jun 11, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

it is racism

we don’t have to beat around the bush people if BJ was a white guy he wouldn’t get half the boos. He is percieved as the lazy thug and thus people don’t cut him any slack.

by JRays on Jun 11, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I disagree...

At first I thought this may be a factor, but look at CC. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays, yet never catches any heat.

I really think it is 2 things…. 1)Him not hustling a couple times last year 2)The negative stigma associated with striking out(if his fan friendly stats were better, they wouldnt mind the K’s

by td32 on Jun 11, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't think so

for the same reason listed above, nobody boo-ed CC last year when he was not playing well at all. I think ever since that article came out (not sure which year…2 or 3 years ago?) about him, Delmon, and Dukes, people have just always associated him with the same type of ego and personality as those guys. Even though he had nothing to do with them except playing minor league games with them, I fear he will always be guilty by association.

by free hotdogs on Jun 11, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Troy Percival thinks you are a troll.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 11, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed RJ

I think booing him in any circumstance – barring not running out a grounder – is incredibly disrespectful and short sighted. I am recently obsessed with sabermetrics, but this has little to do with strikeouts being marginally worse than fly outs. It has to do with a double-standard applied to BJ Upton having to do with image/race and a false perception about hustling because he has long strides that look effortless and he’s calm/cool/collected.

I am in strong favor of booing Dioner’s attempts to block pitches.

by BillyHatcherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Rec'd

I only advocate the booing of particular Northeastern teams. Having been an athlete myself for a decade and a half, I cannot bring myself to do anything but encourage, or — at worst — simply not cheer for some one I don’t appreciate.

B Rad the Ray Fan

by BWoodrum on Jun 11, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I won't agree with you here.

He’s been slumping for 2+ months, yet he’s still batting leadoff and still playing daily. We get pissed off at Gabe Kapler for less. I won’t boo a player unless I really don’t like what they’re doing on the field, but if a player has this sustained level of below-average performance, I wouldn’t at all be suprised that the fans boo him until he turns it around.

Personally, I would be booing Upton too if I didn’t think I knew better and felt that we’re not going to see 2007 Upton this year because he hasn’t rebuilt strength in his labrum. He’s still getting blown away by fastballs, they just need to be faster then 91MPH to do it now.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 11, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

people who boo Upton don't understand his situation

his labrum still isnt quite right i think and its probably because he gutted it out for this team last year, without BJ we dont make the world series

started rooting for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2001 and will never stop

by RaysOfHope on Jun 12, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions  

That's fine. You like Upton, the fans are too hard on him.

But your love for him clouds your views and actions in the opposite direction. He almost never receives significant criticism on this site and when he does there is always an excuse attached. it’s to the point that whenever you write about Upton I have to take it with a grain of salt because its likely to be biased. When he sucks you should be crapping all over him just like you did CC last year (prior to comments he made about not wanting to play CF).

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

i thought people were too hard on cc last year, he also was playing hurt

he already has 10 more steals and is atop the leaders in hitting this year. Upton will figure things out i guarantee it

started rooting for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2001 and will never stop

by RaysOfHope on Jun 12, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can sum this up in 3 points.

1) Carl’s average and power dwindled and there was no clear reason. Yeah there was serious leg issues in hindsight, but all we had heard in the ST was how much training he’d done in the off-season. Whereas we watched BJ dislocate his shoulder live. Both were injured, but one handicap was much more apparent than other.
2) If there’s any one common stat that’s appreciated here, it’s OBP and patience. Look at the pitches/PA. I know it was a lot easier for me to gripe at the guy up there hacking. This was a 4 year low for Carl.
Carl’s 2008: 3.43
BJ’s 2008: 4.06
3) Hmm, all I needed was 2.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jun 12, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with everything you said

but that doesn’t mean that BJ should get better treatment that CC. Regression is regression.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

We should get to the heart of the matter

Why is EVERYONE here anti-semetic?

But yeah, your point is well reasoned, though my personal viewpoint is that I have regarded them both with a fair amount of criticism.

What I find distasteful currently is how any “fan” could boo Upton after what he did in the post-season. Beyond the HRs, I will forever regard him for stealing that bag and scoring the tying run in the most assinine of game conditions.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jun 12, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not in favor of anyone booing Upton.

But at the same time it doesn’t bother me too much because I don’t think we are re-signing Upton once he hits FA anyways. So I’m not too worried about him resenting the area. I’m not sure about the racism thing though it may play a role.

Also, I wasn’t referring to you in my original post. I do not dispute your even-handedness in evaluating the BJ and CC.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

No idea what that link is supposed to prove

RJ criticizes BJ and points out the shoulder issue and praises CC. Precisely what I said had occurred. I was referring to the treatment of CC last year particularly after his bad start.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

....
But your love for him clouds your views and actions in the opposite direction. He almost never receives significant criticism on this site and when he does there is always an excuse attached.

Yet he says

As for the leadoff slot, put Carl there, put Burrell there, really it doesn’t matter since anyone – hot or cold streak – is going to outperform the current B.J. Upton. At some point B.J.‘s going to start hitting like B.J again, it’s just a matter of time, and how long the Rays are willing to punt the top lineup slot.

Swav or Die
For the lulz

by SRQman on Jun 12, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shoulder excuse
Okay, Upton’s racked up over 100 plate appearances now and he still looks rusty. Pitchers are pounding him with fastballs and daring him to turn on one and he’s yet to punish them on a consistent basis. It’s not a coincidence either, the league knows his shoulder went under the knife and that he missed most of spring training. So the gameplan against Upton is get ahead then pound him with fastballs.

If you’re really trying to argue that RJ and a lot of the other regulars on this site have a Pro-Upton slant you’re going to lose. It’s not that big of a deal — everyone has biases. I just thought the tone of the article was a little too self-righteous.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just saying

he does say to move him out of the lead off spot in that post. Booing a player is stupid.

Swav or Die
For the lulz

by SRQman on Jun 12, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with that booing him is foolish.

But I also think a lot of Rays players have been booed and I’m not particularly outraged about it happening to Upton.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

...I think it's stupid whenever they boo anyone who is out there giving their effort.

Booing Maddon for pulling Price today was dumb. Booing Upton is stupid but whatever I will have to just sit there annoyed whenever they boo.

Swav or Die
For the lulz

by SRQman on Jun 12, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is like going to USSM.

And posting “I think Dave and Derek are pro-Beltre.”

I mean, I’m pro-oxygen and pro-water too if we feel the need to state such obvious things.

I get it. Every single one of my posts/comments has a smug phrase, or a sense of arrogance about it. At least according to you (and others, I’m sure you aren’t alone on this one) but honestly, that’s played out. If I felt I was better than everyone else I wouldn’t spend so much time replying to emails or comments on here. I write in a tone that easily lends itself to criticism and I fully understand that. I’m not going to change my approach because a few people could get the wrong idea about where I rank me on the food chain of life.

This is worse than the people who say we ban for dissent, yet Raymondo, Tyler, and Brickhaus somehow remain here. As do the people who were arguing about Sonnanstine/Davis.

As for my analysis of CC last year, that was well before UZR was publicly available. Meaning my analysis was formed solely from his offensive performance. Obviously that shouldn’t have been the case, but you live and learn. I’m pretty sure I learn something new every day and I try to pass it along as best I can.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 12, 2009 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what you are talking about for about 2/3 of this comment.

With that being said, I think you are taking way more offense than was intended. I only tend to comment on posts where I disagree with central tenets because I have nothing to add on the other ones. I appreciate your openness to debate and comment, its one of the main reasons I continuously read the site.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

"This is worse than the people who say we ban for dissent, yet Raymondo, Tyler, and Brickhaus somehow remain here. "

I really don’t even know anybody who has any knowledge could possibly think that. Tyler’s a moderator and Brickhaus probably could be too if he wasn’t managing his own sbn blog.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 12, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed that for you.

Tyler’s a moderator vindictive dictator

Until Next Time,

by RATW on Jun 12, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lamar sucks.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 12, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Booing your team is complete garbage!

Don’t ever call yourself a true blue, die hard fan of any team if you are going to boo them or anyone on that team for any reason. Yeah, I know, you pay your money you can say what you like. If booing the home team is what you do, that’s fine, but in my book you just lost every right to call yourself a supporter of that team. Nobody likes to be booed. These players work very hard at their craft, but even great players have bad streaks (some longer than others), but they almost always come out of them. And when BJ comes out of his and gets hot again, he’s going to remember those boos. Like the article says, when his contract is up and we want to resign him, do you think he’s going to want to stick with a fanbase that didn’t stick with him, or go to another city who doesn’t boo their players when they’re having a tough time. Just something to think about.

by J.P.'s my boy on Jun 12, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions  

You mean
Booing Gabe Kapler is my right as an American Anti-Semite.

Swav or Die
For the lulz

by SRQman on Jun 12, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Booing a player for being unproductive is wrong

The player knows when they are stinking up the joint. Plus what can booing accomplish? It isn’t going to make the player perform any better. All it is going to do is alienate the player with the fans. All risk and no reward.

Although my tune when it comes to players being lazy is a whole different spin. I expect players to give 100%. So when BJ was “lazy” he should have been booed.

Although truth be told BJ is definitely not the only Ray to jog here and there. Every single player did the same thing at certain points. The only difference is certain people in the media singled BJ out which caused Maddon to act on it.

by matthan on Jun 12, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Let's not start this again

Upton displayed a lack of hustle during a string of appearances last season. Maddon wasn’t just out to get him, it actually happened. I agree that the mainstream media overreacted to all of it, but I think his defenders went a little too far in the other direction.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 12, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the defense on the pro-BJ side...

had more to do with the word “lazy” that was being thrown around so freely. It was a very racist connotation in the black community.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 12, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

BJ did loaf a few times last year

My point is that he is not the only one. Thats what I was agreeing with. I don’t mind when loafing gets booed. K’s are different. No one tries to strike out.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 12, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

To my knowledge, only three groups of fans won't boo their players:

Dodger Fans, since Dodger games are more fashion statements then sporting events, Cubs fans, because 2/3s of the fans at every game are tourists, and Cardinal fans, because they’re just like Packer fans.

Boston fans almost get a nod for not booing Ortiz, but they would be if he wasn’t making a national media spectacle out of himself for falling on his own sword.

Every other group of fans boo their own players from time to time, for reasons up to, and including, extended performance funks. I remember booing at Jason Hammel in his first season up after his 5th straight garbage outing where he failed to escape the 2nd inning. I didn’t know why he was still up in the major league club because he sucked. I didn’t like the fact that he was still starting, so I booed. The alternatives were to sit on my hands, leave, or hit on a fat chick sitting next to me. I picked my best option.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 12, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't boo people for performance

If I boo, 1) it is rarely directed at someone on my team and 2) it is because I don’t like the person as a human being. Everyone is just trying to play, but some people are just assholes and need to be booed. Toby Hall comes immediately to mind.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 12, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the ultimate sign of karma, bad things happen to people who left the Devil Rays on bad terms,

See Kennedy, Joe; Lidle, Cory

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 12, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. Send him to New York and let him suck there. Or trade him for Mark Scutaro or Ryan Freel. Anyone would be an upgrade over this non-hustling, wannabe th-ug that people call B.J. He’s probably gay too…little skinny i-diot.

by walkoffwalk on Jun 12, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

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