Bartlett activated; Reid Brignac sent down
Joe Dillon has been somewhat hot during his brief stay with the team, but there is no reason to keep him now that Pat Burrell is back. Dillon is obviously out of options, so the only move the Rays could make would be designating him for assignment, but he has no real worth anymore, so losing him to waivers would not be that big of a deal. He doesn't play the field, so he is basically Burrell's back-up right-handed DH. Is that really worth taking up a spot on the active roster?
Brignac was just sent down, according to The Heater Blog of the St. Pete Times, and I disagree with the move. He has demonstrated he is a steady shortstop, and would be a much better insurance plan at any infield spot than Dillon or even Willy Aybar. He has also started to prove he can handle MLB pitching to a certain degree. Therefore, why not keep Brignac up with the big club? Is this another oen of those deals where the Front Office wants a young player to play every day so they send him to AAA?
At this point, I don't think that's what Reid needs, and I don't think Joe Dillon is what the Rays need.
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52 comments
Comments
He's good defensively, but his bat needs some work still. Brignac was the right choice.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
by kericr on Jun 14, 2009 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense.
1. Brignac should be playing every day if he is considered a real prospect. Dillon is better suited as a bench player.
2. Dillon can fill in at 3B and 2B. It does eliminate the best backup shortstop option, but in an emergency Zobrist can fill in for part of one game and then Brignac can be recalled if needed.
3. Although with Burrell and Kapler the Rays have more righty options than they had last year, I think they prefer another one rather than another lefty bat on the bench.
4. It is possible they see more need for pinch hitters going into NL parks and may feel that Dillon is better suited to that role.
5. It should be clear by now that the Rays have worked hard to accumulate depth and that has been instrumental in the recent winning streak. They have lost Iwamura, Bartlett, Longoria briefly, Kazmir and a host of relievers and have not missed a beat because the subs have contributed. They do not want to sacrifice that depth by releasing Dillon.
6. Don’t sell Dillon short. He has generally hit for good power in the minors with a good number of walks. Brignac’s recent hot streak hardly establishes him as a better major league hitter than Dillon.
by bobr on Jun 14, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup, all of this
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jun 14, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can find another Joe Dillon off the scrap heap
A righty with limited defensive capabilities who can only hit lefties.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jun 14, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that justifies keeping Brignac up here over him because...?
You in no way addressed why Brignac shouldn’t be sent down.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
by kericr on Jun 14, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nail, meet hammer
Dillon is the definition of expendable, so why not hold onto that flexibility until we are faced with a genuinely tough decision? Briggy needs to work everyday, and he should be able to get some work at 2B on a daily basis now. It will be interesting how this shakes out after interleague is finished.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 14, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. He's our own little aged pre-miracle Zobrist.
Dillon isn’t great at any one position but can play several adequately in a pinch. He has a track record of taking walks and isn’t completely devoid of power like most backup infield “scrap heap” fodder. His minor league splits actually suggest he can hit righties as well as lefties (923 OPS vs. LHP; 1.010 OPS vs. RHP).
I don’t think we’re going to find a more qualified candidate with all the above criteria to mostly sit on the bench and randomly pinch hit. He is not someone you are going to bend over backwards to keep, but under these particular circumstances it makes clear sense.
As for Brignac, he’s probably not ecstatic about going back to Durham but at the same time goes back probably feeling pretty good about himself and his ability to stick in the majors. For a rookie, he filled in nicely. It wasn’t perfect, but nobody expected it to be. He knows his day is coming.
by RATW on Jun 15, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good analogy!
We’ve also seen how disparging it is when we throw a player to the scrap heap (Adam Kennedy) and then that position player on the Rays goes down. Who knows if Burrell’s neck is totally healthy or if he has some serious issue? PtB looks good at the plate but is still hitting like shit. Dillons looked 100 times better than Burrell at the plate.
Brignac grew into a MLB while Bartlett was down IMO. He looked a bit lost when he arrived and just gained confidence every game. The right decision was made sending Reid down, hopefully Zobrist will tell him Joe Maddons advice while he’s in Durham, “swing harder.”
All in all I wasn’t thouroughly impressed with Reid when he arrived. Brignac then started to fit in and looked like a M.L. SS as the weeks went by. I am certain he now feels he belongs and will build on this experience. It was truly one of the best things (JB getting injured) that could have happened for Reid to grow into a good MLB player.
BTW, ZoRilla Rulz! Glad Kennedy was traded away.
by ConnorManning on Jun 15, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brignac doesn't need to play everyday
He has had four full minor league seasons, including a full one at AA in ‘07 and a full one at AAA in ’08. It’s a different argument to have, but how many years of minor league experience do these guys need before the Front Office doesn’t label them as “needs to play everyday in the minors?”
The need for a pinch-hitter in these next few games is a good point, but I honestly would be just as comfortable using Kapler as a pinch hitter against a lefty as I would Dillon. If Kapler is already starting, they will have Aybar for lefties.
So I think it’s a choice between an extra lefty pinch-hitter vs. an extra righty pinch-hitter, and only one of the two guys (Brignac) is also a solid defender.
by Rolaids on Jun 14, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brignac needs to play everyday in AAA at 2B
And Kapler is a solid defender.
by Erik Hahmann on Jun 14, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt he'll be playing everday at 2b.
I doubt he makes more than 1/2 his starts at 2b
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you chimed in with your whole-assed opinion on that
I hate when people half-ass their opinion and just go from the gut, making up numbers, based on speculation, and what they “think” will happen. Keep up the solid work.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's played 4 games at 2B in Durham this year.
As opposed to 28 at shortstop. Beckham’s three-four years away, Bartlett likely isn’t going to be with the team after next season (maybe even after this season). Aybar and Zobrist can play 2B next year.
Brignac is going to be a short stop until Beckham shows up.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Bartlett going?
Is he sick?
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His contract is up after 2010.
He’ll be 30 years old, coming off a career year (even with some hardcore regression) with some injury concerns. Even if the Rays don’t trade him next off season (which would probably be the smart move), there’s a zero percent chance we re-sign him when his contract runs out.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has 2 more years of Arbitration, that would be 2011
What would be wrong with something like a 3 year contract after this year for 13-14M? You could even throw an option year in there. To make it something like 4/20. The beauty is that it is a very friendly contract for a good SS. Something that another team might be willing to over-pay for. Jaybles is making just under 2M this year and didn’t try to take us to arbitration.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.... he's going to be a 30 year old shortstop with injury problems coming off a career year offensively.
His defensive rates have been going down for three straight years. Even if we don’t deal him, re-signing him is pointless. He won’t replicate this kind of offense again and likely go back to batting an empty 280 with no power and few walks, and if his defense is really declining, than Brignac is going to put up similar production at a much cheaper price.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of ifs
His UZR/150 is close to 6 this year, I’m not really sure how you can see that as a negative. He makes a ton of plays and 30 is still considered a prime year. Give him a 3 year deal that buys out his remaining 2 arb years and his first FA year. Brignac can play second next year, and if he shows he can hit, then trade the 2 remaining years of cheap Barty for a ton of value. If Briggy shows that he is not a ML hitter, which I don’t think he is, then you still have Bartlett for 2 more years. Bartlett at 4M is a discount. I understand the value of having Brignac play because he is cheap, but he is not Bartlett. If you could combine their two strengths it would be a hell of a ballplayer, but I don’t think much of Brignac. Sorry.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it suddenly is going to shift and they are going to start playing him everday at 2b?
What has changed from the rest of the season when he was primarily at SS? Nothing about the team has materially changed since then. That’s where my “whole-assed” opinion came from
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has changed?
Aki went on the DL, remember. Since then he has started at the rates in the post below.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before you go accusing me of being stupid you may want to do some fact checking
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You used the word stupid, not me.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you used it at the end of your post below, not me
That is stupid and you know it.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was confused, I thought we were talking about Zobrist, I apologize for that and won't delete or hide it so others can see my dumbassery
As far as Brignac, Erik wasn’t making some bold prediction, he simply said that the guys needs to start every day. You postulated that that was crazy talk and then pulled a number out of your ass.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm over it.
No worried. Just disagree that Briggs will be starting everyday at 2b. Maybe 25% of the time.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the rates.
The coming out party for Bartlett is what has changed. He has perennially been a 2-win player, or worth anywhere from 8-9M a season. Brignac has done nothing. His glove looks decent-solid, his bat does not.
Secondly, Maddon wants guys that can play multiple positions, what does it hurt for Briggy to learn another position. More importantly, it gives him another goal to work on. He has been asked to work on his glove for years, and he has done that. Now he needs to learn to play a second position flawlessly and increase his walk rates. I don’t like his stick, but I’ll take a guy that can play all over if he can’t hit. Kinda like Zobrist prior to last year
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Briganc is that great myself
I just don’t see him having any value as a full time 2b — his bat isn’t good enough. If he continues to improve his defense at SS then he could be an average player in the major leagues at SS. I think he will continue to get occasional starts at 2b, but mostly will work on getting better at SS.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he can do much more at SS is the thing
So why not utilize this time to learn another position. It’s not like he is going to forget how to play SS and if we get in a pinch then we have a guy for the next 6 years, that is at worst, a good utilityman.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's more unlikely, a 29 year old shortstop's ISO power jumping from under 100 to 250
or said player simply having a hot streak? I love JB, and yes he’s a bargain at his current price.
I also like how you accuse me of stating a lot of “iffs”, yet you seem certain Bartlett would sign a three year deal.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to have a left out a sentence there.
Even if Bartlett finishes the year with really good stats, there’s almost no chance he maintains his new found power-walks combo next year. I could be wrong, maybe he really has developed new skills, but this would be like Royce Clayton turning into Derek Jeter.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and about Bartlett's defensive metrics.
Via UZR/150…
2005: 28.5
2006: 15.1
2007: 9.0
2008: 2.9
2009: 5.4
5.4 isn’t bad… but, it’s not great either. If he’s really settled into a +5 guy, and the bat improvement isn’t real (that is, if he reverts to a 280 hitter with few walks and no power), then there is zero reason to resign him past arbitration.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see him as a .900 OPS guy or an .800 OPS guys, but for our #9 (leadoff against lefties please)
We could do a lot worse. The thing that I like the most, that only Bill James made a significant attempt at explaining that I have seen, is how well he runs the bases. He always takes the extra base, can steal 2nd AND 3rd, and rounds off his corners to perfection. His range is good, his bat plays, and I have never heard one bad word said about him. I understand that he is over his head right now, but before he got hurt he was one of the 10 best PLAYERS in MLB. We just need him to be an experienced, cheap guy at SS. I hope Briggy blows up and we can get a ton of value by trading him to the Mariners.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not disagreeing with you that Bartlett is a good player.
He is. He’s a valuable asset. But, he’s not going to be with this team when he’s 32.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are a joke
so its more half-assed for me to say he will probably get fewer than 1/2 his starts at 2b when that has been the case all season then it for Eric to claim he’s going to be at 2b everyday?
You’re the same guy that says Sonny is going to hit 2 or more homers and you’re getting mad at me for expressing my opinion? What a joke.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can't see a prediction of a pitcher hitting 2 homers is a joke, then I don't know what to tell you.
He has started at 2B 14 of the 19 games since Aki went down, or 74%. 74%>50%. He has started there 14 of the last 15 games, or 93%. Again, 93%>50%. Why would you possibly factor in games started at 2B before Aki went down? That is stupid and you know it.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is about Zobrist NM
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
he has played 4 games at 2b this season. Don’t know where you are getting your stats.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 15, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is an example
of nitpicking to find a disagreement. There are obviously legitimate reasons to keep Dillon over Brignac. In addition to the points already made, keep in mind that Brignac’s offense regressed over the past two years, and although it improved this year he still is not hitting lefties well.
A case could be made that Brignac should remain in the majors. But so what. It is hardly a conclusive case, so shouldn’t we agree that on balance the insight of the team probably trumps our speculations? As for Dillon being fungible, aside from the fact that he does bring some specific useful skills to the team, that is not relevant to the issue of Brignac’s placement. Dillon is here now and serves a purpose; you don’t simply release him because you figure you can replace him easily.
by bobr on Jun 15, 2009 12:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's no secret that I would rather Dillon go down and Briggy at 2B
but then what happens with Zobrist
This here is how we should/prob will go
R B.J Upton CF
L Carl Crawford LF
R Evan Longoria 3B
L Carlos Pena 1B
S Ben Zobrist 2B
R Pat Burrell DH
R Jason Bartlett SS
L Gabe Gross RF (Kapler against lefties)
S Dioner Navarro
Now personally, I have Barty lead off and drop Upton down but thats a seperate argument
Rotation: 1. James Shields 2. Matt Garza 3. David Price 4. Jeff Niemann 5. Andy Sonnanstine...... Coming Soon: Wade Davis......Scott Kazmir?
by joeybw on Jun 15, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BJ's bat is turning around.
Barty’s having a great year, but there’s no guarantee it is going to continue. Other than this year, he’s only posted a +350 OBP once. If you really want to get into maximizing offensive matchups, then you could make a case for him batting lead off against lefties, but in the macro sense, he isn’t going to be as productive as Upton (in all likelihood – he could prove me wrong and maintain this new found ability to recognize pitches and drive them.)
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have Brignac start everyday at 2B in Durham and try to find a good offer for C.C.
Trade him, start Zobrist in LF and Brignac at 2B.
by Dbullsfan on Jun 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's give up on a promising short stop prospect for no reason at all!
There is zero reason to move Brigs to full time (or even close to full time) 2B until it’s necessary.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying never let the guy play SS ever again in his career.
I’m saying I think he is big league ready and right now we don’t have spot at SS we have a spot at 2B.
by Dbullsfan on Jun 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brignac isn't better option than the current situation...
A lot of Brignac’s value is in his glove. Moving him from SS to 2B removes a lot of value. It also makes me wonder what people see in Brignac? His bat isn’t great, he has below average on base skills, and his glove isn’t amazing. Why does he deserve a shot over what the Rays currently have?
And Zobrist in LF/Brignac at 2nd is an enormous downgrade from CC and Zobrist.
by tallyray on Jun 15, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't yet, but he will.
He’s actually a very good defender. What we saw in the big leagues was some nerve problems – he got to plenty of balls, but the throws were a little off. The ability is clearly there.
As for his bat, it has obvious potential in terms of power and speed, but he’s gotta develop a bigger degree of consistency. As for his patience, he showed improvement in Durham this year. Briggy isn’t ready for the majors yet, but he’s still one of the best five or six short stop prospects around.
by Suttree on Jun 15, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he should be playing 2B everyday at Durham so that when he does come up for good as a utilityman
he will be able to give us flawless defense at more than one position.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 15, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I trust our FO to only trade C.C. if we can get a very good return.
I’m not saying give up up for nothing because losing C.C. is a big loss to our current line-up but moving him, especially given his season right now would be smart. His trade value is most likely as high as it will ever be. As far as Brignac. His defense is that good and yes moving him to 2B lowers that value a bit but he isn’t rated the top defensive infielder in the system for no reason. His bat is also good while he has struggled the last couple years he still has good projection in his swing and hits a good number of line drives.
by Dbullsfan on Jun 15, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This doesn't account for any potential upgrades elsewhere (C) as a result of trading CC
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by FreeZorilla on Jun 15, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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