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David Price Pitch His Way Out Of Rays' Rotation? Scott Kazmir Set To Return

All the talk before tonight's game was about one of the Rays left handed starters. The talk after tonight's game is about a different Rays left handed starter. There was a certain buzz before tonight's Rays game about the impending return of a healthy Scott Kazmir. Joe Maddon and Andrew Friedman met before tonight's game to discuss when Kazmir would return, and most likely who will go. They may want to have another meeting after David Price's night against the Phillies.

Like his start in Colorado, Price showed improved control, however, his command left a lot to be desired...a lot. The Rays defense didn't help much committing three errors in the first four innings, but Price didn't help out much either. He allowed 10 runs, five earned, on seven hits and two walks. He struck out just two in four and a one-third inning. Price threw 88 pitches with nearly 70% of them being strikes. This is a big improvement from his first four starts, but once again it's nice to have control; it's another to have command.

Star-divide

Sure, Price threw a lot of strikes, but many of them came up right at or slightly above the "belt." Once again, Price was basically a two pitch pitcher. 86 of his 88 pitches were fastballs or sliders. He threw just two change ups, neither for a strike. If you've been a reader of DRB for a while, you know we've beat this topic to death. Price does not need a plus change up, but he needs something to show as a third offering especially when he's throwing belt high sliders.

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via brooksbaseball.net


Another thing Price struggled with was putting away hitters once he got ahead in the count. Let's take a look at some specific at-bats in the first inning. With two on and no out, Price quickly jumped ahead of Chase Utley 0-2. Price could basically throw any pitch here. He hung a slider belt high which Utley cracked for a two run double.

With Utley on second, Price worked ahead 0-2 on Ryan Howard. Again, Price could throw anything here. This is where a nice 84 mph change up that looks like a fastball could really help. After fouling off two fastballs, Howard lined a double on another belt high slider scoring Utley.

After a quick visit by Jim Hickey, Price got ahead of Jayson Werth 1-2. Werth fouled off two fastballs like Howard. The next pitch was a slider; belt high except in on the right handed Werth. Nonetheless, Werth hit a single setting up runners on first and third and again no outs. Thankfully, Price would remember he is David Price and strike Pedro Feliz out inducing three swinging strikes on fastballs. John Mayberry Jr., the next batter, would crush a home run into left field on an inside fastball making the score 6-0 and effectively ending the game after one-third of an inning.

To DP's credit he rebounded nicely in the second and third innings, throwing a combined 17 pitches in the two innings. However, two errors in the fourth inning would lead to a three run shot by Chase Utley and a 10-0 Phillies lead.

Over the past few days most of the replacement talk has centered around Andy Sonnanstine. However, after tonight you have to wonder if the Rays are willing to let Price take his lumps in the majors or send him back to Durham to refine his game. The good news is Price really has seem to have found some control, but his command is lacking. As we've seen with pitchers in the past, command is not something you want to work on at this level. Listen, Price is extremely close to being a really good if not great starter, but obviously he's not a finished product. We've seen improvements, but nights like tonight are going to happen in his learning process. The next few weeks will go a long way in determining if the Rays are contenders or pretenders and Sonnanstine has proven in the past he can contribute as a starter to a contending team.

It might be time for the Rays to take a temporary Price check.

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Uh, no they haven't.

Everyone who should’ve been in the rotation to start the year was there and everyone who should be there now is.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 23, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

No please do comment

Because I would like to know what the hell this asinine comment is based off of

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just ban his ass.

He brings nothing to the table. I wish I had never stuck up for you. Don’t email me because I won’t read it.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

The poster asked what 'no comment' meant

I simply answered

Why so hostile? Differences of opinion are what make blogs interesting

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

IF you just posted Edwins

fucking line from last night Im gonna lose it. Thats absolutely stupid. How many times should we go through Sonny and Edwin’s career numbers prior to this year? Prior to this season explain to me why you would have kept Jackson? I didnt see you say shit when they basically left him off the playoff roster or when they traded him. It is in no way intelligent to say we “mishandled” the rotation because Edwin magically figured it out.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever man

I dont really see how Edwin is relevant whatsoever. But continue to talk about him. It will make us better and it really adds to every conversation we have on this site. Thanks for turning another meaningful thread into an Edwin shit fest. Everyone really appreciates it

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Posters here don't like Kennedy but he made sense tonite

Moyer throwing 75-80 and worked inside, Price hitting 95 but didn’t

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

He also said Price had his best stuff of the year last night

Utley, Werth, Howard, and John Fucking Mayberry Jr would disagree

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

What was his strand rate tonight? 0?

We were just not forgiven for errors.

Fun night to be in the stands.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

one changeup on the night...

and it was hit to the fence. Send him back down to AAA until he can throw that pitch with confidence. If not, just make him a reliever for the rest of the season and work on the pitch on side sessions.

He was not dominating AAA so I have no problem sending him back there but leaving him up here as a 2 pitch pitcher to get his head beat in isn’t doing much.

Has he gotten out of the 1st inning in under 30 pitches this year yet?

by Jason Collette on Jun 23, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

It's amazing that Price threw no Sliders low & away

Especially to Lefties, that’s a common way to get swings & misses. It also seems like this year when there’s an error or a play couldn’t be made, the whole game goes down the drain. It’s happened to all different pitchers.

by Transplanted on Jun 23, 2009 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Looking for a pitching prospect?

Check Kershaw and Hanson the last couple nights

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:54 PM EDT reply actions  

So Price is no longer a pitching prospect? Brilliant comment.

He has one bad outing and now Kershaw and Hanson are better? Right. Makes sense. Or is it not Price’s fault but the fault of “the Rays completely mishandling the rotation”?

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hanson has *not* pitched well in the slightest sense.

ERA is an awful stat at measuring pitcher performance. I know its small sample size, but a 10:12 K/BB, 5.78 FIP, and tRA of 7.12 isn’t good.

And all pitching prospects develop differently.

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

"JACK! (Hannahan) You gotta stand in there and get the HBP! Your OBP will go from disgusting to merely deplorable if you develop that tactic." ~ Joey C.

by Blicks on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is a fire

Please die in it

2009 Rays Baseball: God Damn It, Guys

by JMB on Jun 23, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kershaw.....

2008 Stats
GS: 14
W: 4
L: 5

He started quite a bit more then Price did last year.

OH, and he was drafted in 2006, price in 2007.

Tommy hanson? Drafted in 2005.

by chancedj on Jun 24, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

those wins and losses mean nothing

kershaw had 4.08 FIP last year and a 3.79 FIP so far this year. he’s good.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

biggest dropoff from the 2008 Rays to the 2009 Rays

Starting pitching and defense. Kazmir better come back as vintage Kazmir, because we are hurting in this department. Sonny is killing us and Price is a work in progress. Shields is doing fine, Garza hasn’t been so hot lately, and Niemann has been decent.

The bullpen is actually performing similar to last season, and the offense is pretty awesome. But there is a big reason why we are only 37-35.

by sofladude77 on Jun 23, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I wish we were playing at Citizens Bank Park

Phils are stinking up the place, and are dominant on the road. Weird.

by sofladude77 on Jun 24, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

underachieving

Navi has regressed with almost as many errors/passed balls as last year already. Pena now has 7 errors, which is a lot at first being only June. I see just little errors creeping up here and here. We aren’t as good as last year in that department.

by sofladude77 on Jun 23, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some players are definitely playing worse defensively. Some have gotten better (BJ). Navi has become a total joke behind the plate. Evan and Pena are still good, but they are playing quite a bit worse than their elite standards.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stop looking at errors.

Start looking at UZR.

The defense is fine.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to disagree here:
Price is extremely close to being a really good if not great starter

How can a pitcher give up 10 runs and be close to being a great pitcher?

There is a huge difference between winning games and being a great pitcher, no? Let Price work on being a decent starter first. He doesn’t even seem close at this point.

by plasticman on Jun 23, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Price didn't give up 10 runs.

The Rays gave up 10 runs.

And Johan gave up like 15 last week.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 23, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Price threw alot of beachballs tonight.

He gave up more than they credited him for.

He gave up 5

Should’ve been 7 or 8 (5 of which were cause of the long ball)

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 23, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Johan has a track record

Price doesn’t. Seriously can you not see why people have concern? He was far less than dominant in AAA. He comes up here and overall has been far below average. He looks like he has zero confidence. He only throws two pitches. In a couple starts he throws really hard and wild. Tons of K’s and BB’s. In a couple starts his velo declines and so does the BB and K’s, but all of a sudden he gives up more gopher balls than Sonny and Wheeler combined.

I understand that it is pretty annoying that some people post retarded comments. However you have to be disappointed and worried. Price has been far below expectations this year. Its worrisome. The fact that he has essentially pitched his way back to AAA is very scary.

If someone expected a great pitcher or even a good pitcher was very optimistic. But pitching his way back to AAA is not a good sign for even the folks with the lowest of expectations.

by matthan on Jun 23, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are 3 games out of the wild card

with 90 games to go. Im not worried and am not blind or ignorant. Am I 100% happy with how the season has gone? of course not. But we are right in the thick of things and by almost any statistic or metric we have been unlucky so far. I for one am fine with where we are. Of course we could be better but in no way am I worried.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is a 23 yo prospect.

I’m pretty sure Red Sox fans were jumping off the ledge last year when Clay Buchholz pitched his way back into AAA (although, to be fair, he did have a 4.82 FIP on the season) last year.

Young pitchers all develop differently. This is a guy that has 188 innings of pro ball, including the minors. That’s about a full season for a starter, split between A/AA/AAA/MLB. Most pitching prospects are in AA or AAA after one year of pro experience (this is a generalization). Price, being the elite arm that he is, was rushed up (rightfully).

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

"JACK! (Hannahan) You gotta stand in there and get the HBP! Your OBP will go from disgusting to merely deplorable if you develop that tactic." ~ Joey C.

by Blicks on Jun 23, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree wiht your general sentiments

But the fact that he hasn’t pitched well at AAA or in the majors this season worries me.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was drafted two years ago out of Vandy #1 overall. This isn’t a high school 2nd round project.

I don’t expect him to be a superstar right now. I do expect more than 2 pitches, wildly changing velocities between games, slightly under 5 FIP in AAA, and even worse now in MLB.

I have no doubt Price will become a great pitcher someday. He is just nowhere near it as Tommy seems to think. He needs improvement across the board. Hopefully it clicks tonight, and I’m sure it will someday. He has a ways to go

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Worried needs context

We have seen an effectively wild Price who struggles to throw deep into games, and a commandless Price with control. I am not worried about his ultimate development. Yet it would be disappointing if he needs another season in AAA. We had all hoped he would be a key cog in the rotation. THen again Price only has a handful of starts and is still adjusting to major league hitters. Disappointed but not panicked? Tommy Hanson has not been much different.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm definitely worried about his effectivenes going forward this season

and his complete lack of development this season worried me that we all may have overestimated his ceiling

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure why you feel so insecure about your argument that you have to insult me.

The point is that the range of all pitching, from great to poor, extends beyond what this article describes. Price does not appear to be very close to being a great pitcher.

by plasticman on Jun 24, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I really think that 3rd pitch is crucial though and it becomes more and more evident with every start he makes. Price actually rented my familys beach house from me and so we know him a little bit and his parents extremely well. Supposedly he was so pissed that he got sent down that he really didnt feel he needed to work on what they said. he said he felt bored with the whole AAA situation and it looks like he really didnt work on adding a pitch at all, but knew that he would eventually be up regardless of his performance/progress. That being said maybe this is opening his eyes a bit and he really tries to get that changeup to at least average.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds awful

Not the attitude we’d all hope for here. I would like to think Price strives to be the best all the time, and not mediocre.

Thanks for that tidbit of info.

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 23, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

No prob.

And I dont want to start some conspiracy here because this is word of mouth and I was a bit removed from the situation, but his parents definitely said he was pissed and I think his attitude changed a bit. Hopefully he can turn it around and be the guy we know he can

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is

Everyone is going to have an arrogance to them, whether we see it or not. BEEEJAY had a huge arrogance when he was in the minors and it took him a few seasons before he found is true position and his swing. Price, with all the fanfare and what not, knows that he is “the future” and eventually he will be brought up regardless of his stats in AAA.

I like the guy, I really do but if you can’t work to become better because you think you already are amazing to begin with, I think you need to get smacked around by major league teams for a few games. Yes he is human but develop and listen to your coaches.

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 23, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I think there is a difference

between arrogance and a refusal to listen to your coaches/management. Its pretty apparent that Price refused to develop that changeup and hes paying for it now. Im all for playing with a chip on your shoulder (BJ), but letting it affect your performance or work ethic is a whole other thing.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

From now on

100% white players. None of this black or mixed stuff. IMO, when its mixed, it might as well be black. Tainted.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, let me get this straight...

Price rented out your beach house and what, during the exchange of keys or something he just decided to spill his guts to you about everything he was feeling? Or wait, was it his parents who felt it neccessary to tell the owner of their rental property the personal business of their son? I’m not sure, but I think you meant to post this insightful nugget on The Heater.

by fogelberg on Jun 24, 2009 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um

Actually no pal. Ive had lunch with David before and had dinner with his parents about 3 times. Also sat with his parents during the White Sox series. My parents and his parents speak quite frequently actually and my dad and Mr. Price were talking about how David was dealing with being sent down at the beginning of the year and this is what he said. Not really sure what part of this comment belongs on the heater seeing that it is completely relevant to this topic…

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

What happened to Price's velocity?

I was at the game tonight. Price’s fastball was sitting 92-93 and I only saw it touch 94 or 95 like once on the stadium gun. His nasty slider that he he last year is gone too.

Its like Scott Kazmir all over again, just much much sooner.

WTF are we teaching our young lefties???

by Tamparays01 on Jun 23, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Somewhat OT: Hickey needs to be fired after the season is over

I’ve yet to hear a single legitimate reason why he should retain his job. The evidence is starting to weigh heavily against him.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 23, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Not disagreeing

But what is your reasoning for wanting to axe Hickey? Its not like we have the worst pitching staff in the majors. I mean, just from our rotation we have three guys (Niemann, Garza, Shields) all right where they should be, and you could even throw Price in that group. The Kaz problem was injury (supposedly) and Sonny just hasnt looked good. Im not saying Hickey has been great but most of our pitching problems this year should not be attributed to Hickey IMO.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

You cant compare staffs like that. You have different true talents. The question is how much production that pitching coach gets from that true talent. Or in extreme cases whether the talent disappears or suddenly increases.

Hickeys pitchers have routinely performed worse as time has gone by. For example on average FIPs increase when a pitcher gets to Hickey and it increases as they spend time with Hickey.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kaz, EJax, Sonny

Kaz hires Rick Peterson for a consultation and suddenly he gains his control back and is throwing 92-95. If he comes back to the majors and throws this well then I will start to be really concerned about Hickey. (I realize there may be more to the story).

Ejax goes over to Det and lights up the league. Sonny stays here and sucks ass.

Also, the significant decline in pitching performance (measured by a variety of metrics) that matthan demonstrated is another piece of evidence to add to the puzzle.

I’m not saying this is all necessarily Hickey’s fault, but the weight of the evidence is definitely leaning against him. I just don’t think whoever we hire to replace would do a worse job.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course we can't really pin Price on Hickey

Although it is a bit strange in the total change of pitching philosophy between his first couple starts and Colorado/Philly. I’m sure Hickey had to have had something to do with that.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Im not saying Hickey has been good this year, but lets at least wait until the end of the year before we call for somebody’s job.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

with that reasoning, though

the Rockies never would have gotten Jim Tracy to take on the job as manager before winning 11 straight and then beating the Rays in that series. Mid-season management changes are not always inappropriate.

I’m starting to think that Hickey needs to go.

by Zach Attack on Jun 24, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

In my opinion (I'd like to do more research)

Is that we would be better off with zero pitching coach than Hickey. IMO without a pitching coach a pitcher on average remain stagnant given all the external variables are the same. With a pitching coach he has an outside influence. In Hickeys case his influence has been negative overall.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pitching coaches can definitely make a difference

The Tigers hired Knapp out of the Twins minor league system this offseason. He has remade Ejax and overseen a lot of improvement in the rest of the rotation (Verlander). I definitely think it is worth giving someone else a try after this season. Whoever we hire isn’t going to be any worse than Hick.

I don’t know about a midseason firing, but I’m beginning to come around on it. Maybe just give the job to Ramos or Brian Anderson for the rest of the season and make a hire in the offseason.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is the type of thing that clouds peoples judgment on analyzing coaches

Sonny got to the majors, prior to any Hickey involvement, with a certain skill level. Hickey didn’t exact mold him into the pitcher that got to MLB. So the question is how has Sonny performed relative to Sonny? The answer is he has gotten worse.

The question is whether you pin that on Hickey or not. However you cannot give credit to a pitching coach when a team acquires top end pitching via minor leagues, free agency, or trades.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think this makes his decline this season

all the more worrisome. I’m not going to dispute that Hickey has had some past successes, but looking at all the available evidence I don’t see any reason he should keep his job after this season.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reading these comments about Hickey...

makes me think there’s something to the idea of trying out a new pitching coach. I mean, it’s not like pitching coaches need to shoulder all of the blame for poor starter performances. But all of the shit that has gone wrong this season, from Kaz to Sonny to Price to whoever….

There’s one dude who’s the common denominator in all of those situations. It might not be a bad idea to cut him out.

by Zach Attack on Jun 24, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Is he definitely the problem?

Who knows, but going on the available evidence he is definitely trending towards needing some of the blame. Does anyone actually think it world hurt the team to replace Hick after the season is over? Do we really think whoever we hire is going to do a worse job? It seems unlikely from my vantage point.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's a classic win win

There really would be no downside to getting rid of Hickey tonight. The upside is debatable, but there is nothing to lose. The pitchers cannot really get any worse based on their talent.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not that I dont agree

But I think we are overstating how badly our pitching staff has performed this year. Its not like we have been fall off the cliff terrible. Aside from Sonny and maybe Kaz (depending if you believe his issue was medical or mechanical) no one has really underperformed that badly. And please do not bring up Price because there really isnt much past pro performance to support either side. Obviously we all believe he should be better, but his performance cannot be blamed on Hickey IMO. That being said Im not totally against his firing I just dont think we should blow this situation out of proportion

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know you have a good fastball

when people are talking about you throwing 92-93 and touching 95, and your velocity is “down.”

Velocity fluctuates from start to start. It’s nothing I’d be that worried about. Price can still be a hugely successful pitcher throwing 92-93, he just has to have a lot better command. It’s not his decline in velocity that has hurt him the past two starts, it’s been his terrible command within the strike zone.

Hello.

by killa3312 on Jun 24, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Not every pitcher has that type of command though

Randy Johnson and Scotty K were effectively wild type lefties. Very similar arsenals to Price.

My feeling is Price may never have that elite command. The goal needs to get him some control while being filthy. Once you reduce his velocity his filth goes way down.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

But something that really kills him is hitters just going up and being able to say either “Im sitting here until I see a hittable fastball” or “Im waiting for his slider over the plate” and not only can that produce results like we saw tonight, but really elevates his pitch count as we have seen most outings. That is why that 3rd pitch is so important. You have to be able to keep guys honest.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like some people are naive

I don’t see a problem in sending him down to AAA again. If it discourages him, he need to wake up and realize that it happens. Everyone goes through the minor league process, you can’t avoid it. I think it was the right decision to start him in AAA at the beginning of the season. I just don’t think a kid with not even 2 years of professional experience can become a good starter, regardless of who you are. Good starters need consistency. I don’t care about strikes per 9 innings ratios right now, I care about his K/BB and pitch selection/usage. If he is going to rely on 2 pitches, he isn’t going to make it far. the strategy for over powering a hitter only works for closers.

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 24, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

He wasn't very good in AAA

I know people say he was working on things. Fair enough, but why have him work on things when he is going to pitch totally different in the majors?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

The guy is throwing the two same pitches he threw all last season. If you’re going to have him work on things then don’t promote him until its clear he’s got a third pitch. Either that or stick him in the bullpen.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

However,

I think that seeing him be able to shift his approach so significantly from start to start bodes well for the future. It means he’s clearly still a work in progress and we shouldn’t get too discouraged by his poor performances as of late.

The anecdote about him refusing to listen to the team’s advice about getting a couple of new pitches is disturbing though.

by Zach Attack on Jun 24, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

If he is actively switching approaches this is a good sign. Seemingly though he should have been trying out some of these different approaches the last two months in Durham. Maybe he was — I didn’t see any of his starts. If so more power to him.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

AAA

In thee arly season, the masses skewered the Rays cliaming they were cheap by minimizing Price’s service time. The Rays stance as that he needed to develop at a minimum a 3rd offering to keep hitters honest. AAA is what is best for his development. It probably is not what is best for the 2009 Rays. It is best for the organization. He can be an effective starter with his 2 pitches. THis guy has elite talent though, and it would be a shame to stunt his development. With two pitches, he may have no choice but to go with the wildly effective Price over the controlled Price.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

If keepng him in AAA was for his own development

then why did the Rays call him up when he only had two pitches? If they were really worried about his development they wouldn’t have brought him up they would have brought up someone like Carlos Hernandez. I can only think of two explanations: 1) it wasn’t about development but money (which is fine) or 2) they wanted him to come and see how difficult it is to be a mlb starter with two pitches so he would actually learn a third pitch when he gets sent back down.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

you've got your facts woefully mixed up

neither me or matthan said it was stupid for the team to leave him down early. In fact I think it was a good idea to leave him down even if it was for money. What’s stupid is leaving the site because you don’t like the comments in one post. Grow up.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

You automatically assuming he means you or someone else in particular is very telling.

There are plenty of people who felt that way. I was not one of them.

We know something you don't know
And if we don't share then we don't grow
Unabomber set the whole world on fire

by Orlando Rays on Jun 24, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its been principally me and matthan saying that Pirce sucks in this thread

so you can see why I would think he was referring to us, no? Maybe he was referring to Raymondo. Who know. That’s exactly why I hate posts like that.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Any by saying Price sucks

I mean saying he sucks right now, not that he always will.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't read the post...

nor do I care to remember what you say about everything. I do know who the ignorant posters are though.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not that David Price doesn't have a bright future.

But this is front-of-mind proof even to pitching prospects are no guarantee or an immediate fix, right?

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

What are you talking about.

Wade Davis would outpitch Sonneinste right now!!!!! BULLSHIT MADDDEN BULLSTHIE!!!

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of

Davis is showing bad command so far for Durham

3IP 6HA 1ER 2BB 2K

And just like Price, 3 errors hasnt helped him

Btw I would be shocked if Price goes down, he would have to pitch this bad for like 4 or 5 starts to ever see Durham again

Rotation: 1. James Shields 2. Matt Garza 3. David Price 4. Jeff Niemann 5. Andy Sonnanstine...... Coming Soon: Wade Davis......Scott Kazmir?

by joeybw on Jun 24, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

he had a VERY quick 4th

so thats his line through 4 now

Rotation: 1. James Shields 2. Matt Garza 3. David Price 4. Jeff Niemann 5. Andy Sonnanstine...... Coming Soon: Wade Davis......Scott Kazmir?

by joeybw on Jun 24, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

my anti jynx worked

Struck out the side in the 5th

prob will work the 6th

5 IP 6 HA 1 ER 2 BB 5 K

Rotation: 1. James Shields 2. Matt Garza 3. David Price 4. Jeff Niemann 5. Andy Sonnanstine...... Coming Soon: Wade Davis......Scott Kazmir?

by joeybw on Jun 24, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

and all the sudden, this is a good start

6 IP 99 pitches, dunno if he starts the 7th or hes done

6 IP 6 HA 1 ER 2 BB 6 K

Rotation: 1. James Shields 2. Matt Garza 3. David Price 4. Jeff Niemann 5. Andy Sonnanstine...... Coming Soon: Wade Davis......Scott Kazmir?

by joeybw on Jun 24, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, about Sonnanstine...

I wonder if Schilling wants to come out of retirement?

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

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