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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Matt Silverman On Attendance

"Based on all the information we had, we projected full houses. It's a huge miss, and it’s bewildering to us."

Ouch

over 2 years ago Big_pun--300x300_tiny Tommy Rancel 566 comments 0 recs  | 

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A real shame

thousands flood a perenial 500 team like the Bucs, yet won’t watch a good baseball team playing in the best division

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:33 PM EDT reply actions  

As a fan i'm frightened we will lose this team

and someday watch this ownership group thrive where they appreciate baseball

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Appreciate 10 seasons of shitty baseball

and 1 and a half seasons of good baseball? I think its going to take a little longer than this and the fact that Silverman said this is really surprising to me. It just seems like he is freakin out because of one midweek series. Doesnt change the fact how much attendance is up this year no matter the consistency or which games make the number look better. The fact is the fan base grew immensely in 1 season and I believe it will continue to grow.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

I dunno maybe Im just trying to look at the glass half full. I know merchandise has to be way up, and it has seemed like our attendance has been better, but numbers dont lie. Its just really frustrating as a fan and I cant imagine it from a management standpoint

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you getting that info from B-R?

our attendance guy here had us at 25k per game in his last update…which was a while ago, i suppose.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm usually one to put things in context, but I can't tonight.

Fuck everything. Move the team to San Juan. It’ll give me an excuse to get out of the country for a bit every summer.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Move the team to Tampa and I will go even more

I already have weekend season tickets, it’s just a pain to go to weekday games when I have to drive 30 min from South Tampa to USF in the morning. I just don’t feel like driving another 30 min the other way right after I get home to go to a game. That bridge just isn’t inviting while my car is breaking down.

by Albertrayon on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, beer is almost $10 now which isn't cool.

There’s only so many I can chug in the parking lot before the game. And bring back $1 dog night. I want Staats to make fun of me while I try to eat 5 hot dogs in one half inning.

by Albertrayon on Jun 23, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heater...
Joe started this by showing everyone that he doesn’t care about winning…..BJ batting lead-off, sticking with Fatty Navarro and struggling Sonnanstine……..The Yankees sat A Roid, and the Sox did Ortiz…..yet Joe is afraid to sit Navarro? Please………give me a real manager who tries to win games and not worry about egos and the attendance will go up.

by usfraysfan on Jun 23, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

So if he sat Navi

We would have sold out tonight? THE TIME IS NOW

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn't look good

Honestly I think the answer is what we are all scared of…This area just cannot support baseball.

I wish it is just a stadium and location issue. The problem with that is we may never know if that is the case.

by matthan on Jun 23, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Unless the team moves to Tampa, I suspect the area will lose them.

I got bashed for saying it last year. Everyone told me to wait til this year when attendance would pick up.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Portland

All we need is another team stuck in the Northwest

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the area can support baseball

the problem is there is to much baseball. There are so many minor league teams in the area with dollar beer nights and outdoor stadiums that are a lot of times closer to home. That’s tough. Also all of the little leaguers are playing all-stars right now so those famililes can’t make it to a Rays game.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

That may be the case...

I’m sure there are valid reasons why fans aren’t showing up. The fact is that they aren’t showing up. The bottom line is what matters. The fans are falling way short and the team should move.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

you're right.

If we love this team we need to try harder. I’ve only been to a couple of games this year myself so I can’t blame other people.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

It isn't your fault

The problem isn’t with the fans that actually go to the games. The Rays actually have a good solid core of fans. They just make up all of the attendance all of the time. As in we don’t have enough fans that go once or twice. We have plenty of fans that go 4 or 5 times a season (or more).

In other words our fan base has passion, but is just not broad enough.

This is why I think promotions won’t really help. All it will do is make a fan that goes 5+ times a year pick game X over game Y. It won’t bring out a fan that rarely or never goes to the game.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Either Silverman is bluffing, or he's not nearly as smart as we give him credit for.

No less than a dozen people on this site in every thread on this topic says the same thing. No one goes to weekday games.

That’s the sole reason I go to weekday games. There’s no beer-swilling, peanut-downing fatass next to me making me listen as he bitches to his wife about everything under the sun.

Weekday games are going to draw 10-20K unless there’s a special circumstance (See: Cubs, Chicago). Especially not if you increase the ticket price 60% for the weekday game. If Silverman can’t see that, he’s either blind or a fool.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

this

it sucks that we can’t sell out weekday games, but this shouldn’t have surprised the FO in any way.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the attendance on this actual game suprised him. I think what is surprising Stu and the crew is that this area just doesn’t support baseball. Ownership has done every possible thing to boost attendance. The fans aren’t delivering.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

How much of that is from half of the area being unemployed?

Well maybe not half, but this is Florida as a whole:

Not good, notice how it is increasing over historic averages before the “recession” was even in full bloom. Florida is F’ed in the A, get out while you can. Move the Rays to Rochester, NY. Another 61,000 people were fired last month, the cost of living is crazy, and most people are so far in debt they can’t afford to go to a game, let alone 5. 417,000 people lost their job from May 08 to May 09.

Breakdown by regional counties
Hernando – 12.7% unemployment
Hillsborough – 10.7
Pasco – 11.7
Pinellas – 10.4

LINK

These are just the people that are “unemployed” with all the traditional caveats within their tracking. How many other people are nervous that they will be next?

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Weird...

It’s almost like we are in a major recession and people can’t afford luxury items.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think we have a bit of a different interpretation of Silverman's words

I don’t think he was shocked that the fans didn’t show up. I think he has known this was going to be the case for awhile. I think his quote is more about saying that if the fans can’t show up to this series than they never will. He is just pointing out that it is unacceptable.

Also many of us realize that this type of crowd will the norm (in fact a little high) for weekday games. However that is unacceptable. If we are only going to draw 15k for weekday games then the team should move.

If that is the max the fanbase can muster, even though at this point it is predictable, then this team should move out of the area.

I wish it would move to Tampa, but I don’t see why ownership would take that chance. They should move to an area that doesn’t have, at that time, almost a couple decades of no support.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Without doing research I can't say for sure

Charlotte would be my prime candidate though.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well they'd build a stadium

I’m not sure how the NFL stadium would be for say a year of baseball.

Obviously there would be a lot of t’s to cross and a lot of i’s to dot. However if the research and evidence shows Tampa Bay cannot support the team then they should move them. If it means sitting in front of crowds in St Pete of 500 fans for a year or two after the announcement then so be it.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

So...

You think in this economy where the banking industry has been killed, the capital of the banking industry is going to build a new stadium? You think they’ll take a chance on moving to a football stadium in a city with no history of baseball success without a state-built stadium? Not going to happen.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I meant moving to the NFL stadium for a year as the stadium was being constructed.

And while the banking industry took a hit the demographics are far better for baseball in a city such as Charlotte. You can’t build a fan base on the snowbird elderly.

Baseball needs middle class working adults. Tampa solely lacks that in comparison to other cities.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

BofA got hit

but isn’t going under. I don’t seem this as a long term problem for Charlotte.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Going forward I'd expect the banks to purchase less suites and what not

But the general workforce makes enough money and is plentiful enough to be a good foundation for a baseball franchise.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Panthers fans are notoriously fair-weather minded

So what would make that area different from this one?

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it wouldn't be

But this area isn’t getting it done. I’d rather take a chance on an area that probably will fail, but might work out than an area that will at that time have 2 decades of failure.

It isn’t that any other area is guaranteed to be better than ours. It is a matter of our area getting a shot and failing.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Won't happen in CLT

I live in Charlotte. There is talk of losing our basketball team (and people here care more about basketball than baseball). The city funded that stadium and it has been a train wreck, no way they build another. We are having problems building a new minor league stadium for that matter.

The point is, there is NO city that makes sense to move a baseball team now. That in combination with the massive state and municipal budget shortfalls, no city will be able to fund a new stadium.

by Mulva on Jun 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

Lived in NC for 5 years, and have lots of friends there. No way the team moves to NC. They just care only about college hoops.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very true

lived there myself for a year and that area would be way worse than this one. What they talked about was putting the stadium in the middle of nowhere equidistant to Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Greensboro and I can promise you they would draw less than we do.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Charlotte's in worse shape than Tampa

And it’s not like they have a massive population base either.

A couple years ago (before the recession), I saw a study (I think by Fortune Magazine) which basically said that the only two markets that could support a MLB franchise that don’t already have one are Northern New Jersey and San Fernando Valley, but I’m sure the Yankees and the Angels would kick and scream like hell if someone tried to move a team to either of those places.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd die to know how many of you actually went to that game.

I did. I work full time and I live in fucking Lutz. I feel great this morning.

Did you go? Or just bitch in the GDT? Do you live here? Do you see all the Rays gear around the area?

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't go last night

I’m going tonight. I average around 30 games per year.

Gear is nice, but the attendance is just not there. I’m just stating the obvious. It is unacceptable. My personal feeling is the Rays should stay here if they only average 1 fan a game…me. But if I take my bias out of it then I’m starting to see that this area just cannot support the team.

Also regarding gear…I wonder how much of that is because of the newness of the logo etc.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

What difference does the logo make?

They’re supporting the team. That team store is packed every game.

I’d really like to know where to find FSN/Sun Sports’ ratings breakdown this year. I have a hunch that they’re pretty good.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

When a new logo/name comes out there is always a huge uptick in sales. For example I bought a couple jerseys and a couple hats last year. This year not so much (since I already have it).

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Their promotions department sucks. Although honestly I doubt how many people would go. It is so cheap alraedy. And if they did dollar hot dogs or beers then would they really make more money? Would more fans really go?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

How old are the Indians?

How many years of success have they had?

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stop looking at me as the 'enemy'

I’m simply suggesting an idea that’s worked

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Dbacks and Rockies are outdrawing us

how many years of success have they had? Its stupid to imply the team doesn’t draw dick because they are new

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those two teams also do not play the Yankees and Red Sox. The # of their fans showing up to the stadium is significantly more than what we have.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

The good news, bad news is

we got a team because we had a venue, that’s the good news

The bad news is it’s in DT St Pete

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

The location and the stadium itself is in the dumps.

Btw hasn’t Colorado and Arizona outdrawn us every year?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

He isn’t dumb. This is smoke and mirrors. Remember when the Bucs were going to move? The Giants? Etc? They want a new stadium which will boost revenue. They can then put a better product on the field consistantly. they won’t move unless it’s across the bay, which I doubt.

The economy is in the shitter right now, and I imagine attendance is down across the league. If they honestly didn’t expect this then I lose a lot of faith in the FO. I was calling it in every attendance thread before the year. What is unemployment in the Bay Area right now? What is the market doing? How are prices going for those on fixed incomes? Luxury goods take a hit during recessions, and that’s what baseball games are. The more important thing, I think, is TV ratings because they are a real barometer of how the area feels about the team.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree about prices

$20 for the cheapest ticket in a terrible economy isn’t the best way to go for any weeknight games, no matter who we are playing. The average family of 4 (pretty reasonable guess to how most of our fans our coming to games) would only be paying around $50 for a game after fees at ticket prices last year but ended up paying $85 last night, huge difference in these times, especially with recently rising gas prices. That’s why you saw so many douche-bag Phillies fans like the ones that sat all around me last night since they only have to buy three tickets a year in Tampa. The average Rays can’t afford to go to every game of a series like this with other big games on the horizon at the current prices.

by WASHANDLEERAYSFAN on Jun 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK Chicken Littles....

Where are they moving? Do some research and provide a market that you think would be better than the current one.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If the Rays pay me I'd gladly do it

You can’t seriously ask someone on a blog to do work that is worth thousands of dollars?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Asking posters to do something that would take hundreds of hours is by far the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this blog

You’ve taken the prize for dumbest comment. The chances that someone has the resources and the expertise to do such research on this blog is close to nil. In such a case that person exists what are the odds that he will do it for free just to appease Mr. rglass? 1,000,000 to 1?

We all know what you were trying to do with your comment. I just figured I’d call your lame attempt out. Have a good day.

You know what? Why don’t you do the research that shows that baseball can work in Tampa Bay going forward?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want you to do that.

I wasn’t asking for that you moron. I know you couldn’t pull it off. I said “do some research.” Population, current stadium possibilities, etc. That takes 15 minutes of wiki. There is nowhere, though, so it won’t do you much good.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

...New York.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is, in terms of size, both of those markets are legitimately more appealing then this one.

Obviously Montreal doesn’t have a team, and NYMetro is big enough to support a 3rd.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Listeners?

Ma Francais es tres mal apres tout c’est annees.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was "Surrenderers"

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

No I think your right.

I’ll just use Google instead.

The team should be called, ‘Les cessions’.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

We know how bad the ownership is

Oren Koules needs to go back to making shitty movies for sick fuck retards. Should have left Torts alone and brought in Scotty Bowman to GM.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

My french is next to nonexistant though

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is nowhere

Someone already did the work.

http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/36.html

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one in the front office has ever hinted about moving..

I don’t think that’s what it is about. No other available area is extremely attractive. The Rays are here no matter what.

The Rays need to figure out what motivates people to go to games. That’s the issue. A lot of us in this area did not grow up going to live baseball games and are content just staying home and watching on TV. I go to about twenty games a year and am not sure what would motivate me to attend more.

by tallyray on Jun 24, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

20 is more than enough

It is more about getting the vast majority of the area that goes to 0 games to go to 1 game.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

A new stadium would go a long way toward that

My family is from Tigers country and their attendance was terrible until they built a new very cool stadium and fielded a team that made it to the world series. The Rays have that team they just need a great place to go watch them. People in Detroit don’t have any money either, but many of them are going to games because it’s a great place to watch baseball.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Detroit also draws from all over Michigan, do you think any of the hood rats from the ghost towns are going to a game?

Not trying to sound like a dick, just pointing to the fact that the stadium is accessible to many parts of the state, it doesn’t cater to 2 counties. Bring Orlando within a reasonable distance.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm just saying

maybe they should have the Robo-Los action figure and Aki Rattle Drum giveaways during ther week

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think there is much a major relocation

More likely a slash in payroll

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

That is certainly going to happen

Relocation would be on the long-term horizon. If attendance doesn’t pick up then you’ll see a slash in payroll next year and the year. They’ll ask for a stadium and if they don’t get it then they’ll have to slash payroll some more. Then they’ll start looking elsewhere. Relocation won’t become an option for about 5 years and I doubt they’d find a city for 8 or so years. Those guesses may even be a bit short.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you are right about waiting until next year

b/c I am confident attendance will pick up in late August/September if the Rays are in contention. Even if they aren’t you will have some snow bird migration.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great

That will lead to even less attendance so the team will have legitimate reasons to move.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is what happens

If the fans don’t show up the team cannot sustain payroll. They cut payroll and the team gets worse and less fans show up. It is a viscious cycle.

The team got great on a low payroll and the fans did not show up.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m suggesting an idea that’s worked, that’s all

PS—I’m not a Tribe fan

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Its the ticket prices...

at least in part. Weekday games should not be “prime” games unless we are playing the Red Sox, the Yankees, or the Cubs. We have never had good attendance on Tuesdays and jacking up the price is not going to help. That said, I was there last night and I did not think the crowd was that bad. There seemed to be more fans than a typical weekday game. It was just that the first inning took the wind out of our sails and the Rays didn’t do anything to get the fans back into it.

by Devil Ray on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Attendance is down, through this point last year, at 20 out of 30 ballparks.

On average, MLB attendance is down 1500 fans per game. Now, the new NY parks throw a monkey wrench in the numbers, but still.

The Rays are up 4200 fans per game. That’s second best in the majors behind the KCR. If you were expecting full houses, sure, you should be disappointed right now. But you never should have expected full houses.

Rays attendance is up significantly. As they remain in the pennant race and divisional race, it should continue to go up.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Here you are, Jackass.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2009-schedule-scores.shtml

Notice the games Grienke and Meche started get 20s-30s. The ones they don’t, attendance is in the teens.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, so now it's Greinke AND Meche

dude, all i’m saying is your nitpicking stats, like so many here do

Royals attendance is up—who cares wgy?

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not nitpicking. Meche had two games he played with high attendance.

I’d rather include him than have you get high and mighty about two games.

How do you ask “Who cares why?” The whole point of this conversation is discovering why this team’s attendance isn’t skyrocketing (which it never will). I point to KC because they’re the only team that has improved more than Tampa Bay.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

makes sense

I used to only go to games Kaz pitched from ‘05-’07, no sense in watching Damon Hollins bat if we’re down 5 runs cause of Fossum etc…

Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make sure to take day of the week into account.

I could see some pitchers getting “lucky” or “unlucky” with which days they’ve pitched home games over half a season.

KC has a “new” stadium this year, too, with only moderate price increases.

Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone on the KC site broke this down..

KC attendance went up with giveaways/promotions, not due to Greinke.

by RATW on Jun 24, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

A voice of reason...

Thanks Sky, but the chicken littles in these parts will still bitch and moan about what we all knew was coming.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why don't you do some research?

Before any of these numbers have any real meaning you need to at least post the proportion of Yankee/RS home games so far this year compared to last year? What about days of the week?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

no

I have work to do, and I am not the one crying. I think we’ll see a nice increase compared to other teams by the end of the year.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly

I have put a up 100 fanposts with research. I don’t have time, and idiots just ignore anything rational. So I generally don’t do it anymore.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know you've done previous work

I’m just saying you can’t expect someone else to do research on an issue when you aren’t going to do it yourself.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have done it.

I KNOW why it won’t work. I know why they won’t move. Me telling you things that I’ve read does little good. Doing a little (which is what I was looking for) might change your mind. I may try to do something later, but I’m already wasting enough time considering I have a huge deadlkine to meet Friday.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Go work

I never said they will move. I just said that baseball isn’t and hasn’t worked in this area so they should try something new. If they can’t then we will just go back to an irrelevant franchise drawing the smallest crowds in the league competiting for the #1 pick.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let;s not worry about attendance at all!!

There is now way this team will ever have the balls to move! I dare them to do it. Every other market sucks too.

First, predicting a baseball market is difficult. Everyone thought the area would do better than it has. Second, do you really think the team is saying this stuff to try to drum up more attendance? Personally, I don’t. So what if they move and fail in a new marker, either way we’ve lost them. How often does the FO say things and not follow through with them?? Sternberg has said the Trop is not sustainable for his business. So either the team ends up with a new stadium or we lost them.

You want some markers:
Vancouver, Indy, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Charlotte-Raleigh-Durham, NY, Virginia, OKC, Columbus.

all you will do is make blab some anecdotal evidence about how those markets all suck so I don’t really see the point in this exercise.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Vegas or TX

The rest there is no way in hell. Vancouver is in Canada. That worked well.

Indy I would highly doubt. the MW is shot economically, and it’s a basketball state.

CLT and the triangle are 4 hours apart. Neither could support a pro team.

Where in Virginia?

OKC? HA

Columbus? No way.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Austin might work as well as San Antonio

Toronto has worked out ok, Montreal was a joke. I think Vancouver would be closer to Toronto than Montreal.

Vegas depends on the housing market bouncing back. They’ve been crushed by sub-primes.

I’ll have to do more research on Virginia, but U believe eastern virginia could support a team. Lots of people close together.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like the tidewater area?

I seriously doubt it. That’s just going from my knowledge of Coastal Virginia as a locale more than anything. It’s fairly poor and not anymore centrally located than Tampa/St. Pete.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Toronto area is as big as Chicago

Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toronto is about the size of Chicago

Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really think

that they would bring new teams to NY or Ohio to compete with teams with established fanbases?

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think NYC

Could support a third team. Maybe not Columbus.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

They could.

They wouldn’t allow it, though, and I doubt the team would take root at all.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

if we already have good relative #s it surely will spike during a wildcard chase.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

As it did last year

It won’t increase as much as last year though due to the newness of it all.

When comparing 2009 to 2008 so far you have to remember you are comparing two totally different expectations of the teams.

2nd half of 2008 v 2nd half of 2009 is where the good comparison is.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope it picks up just for the fact that that place rocks out when it is packed

The energy and the noise was something I haven’t heard in another stadium.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Scientologist?

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, I just hate people in general, and most vices.

I gamble like a motherfucker though. If I could live 5 minutes from Belmont Park, I’d be happy.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

So go get some wings and a pitcher

It beats losing your mind in traffic. And you’re a lawyer so don’t give me that doesn’t drink bullshit

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Got hit by a drunk driver a few years back. I don't touch the stuff.

I just park down at Baywalk and walk back. But my father is a fatass. I took him to Ring Night, and got stuck in a traffic jam to the game. Took 50 minutes to get from the 275 offramp to the parking lot.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Consider my statement retracted

Traffic sucks everywhere, especially when a bunch of homersexuals get the chance to be handed a ring.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I liked how in the first inning of Dioner Navarro bobblehead night you could

find one on ebay for $25 with like 7 bids on it already, that is how you know that a fanbase is tarded.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to say this

But didnt want to go off topic. I have season tickets to the Rays and Bucs. I went to 7 Bucs games last year (driving from Orlando every Sunday) and have gone to at least that many for the last 5-7 years. I have been going to 25+ Rays games for the last 5 years and I will tell you that leaving a Rays game is 100000000000000 times easier than leaving a Bucs game.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mostly because TPD Traffic cops aren't idiots.

In fact, that’s pretty much all they’re good for.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Final statistics are a different ballgame.

There is a huge difference between games in april/may/june and august/september.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

FALL BEHIND?!?!?!?!?

HOW DENSE ARE YOU PEOPLE!?!?! WE ARE STILL IN TEH THICK OF THE PLAYOFF RACE!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE 2 GAMES BACK OF THE WILD CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look, i'm hoping we win every game

but let’s be honest, the TB fans got caught up in a wave of baseball excitement never before seen

Here’s hoping that sistains itself again

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sky I figured I'd dig a bit deeper into your numbers as I think they are a bit misleading

I wanted to eliminate some variables:

1. Disney games
2. Yankee/RedSox/Cubs games

Our core average after 36
2009-22,703
2008-18,799

Our core average after the first 36 games at the Trop (taking out Disney)
2009-22,703
2008-20,609

Our average after taking out Prime games (28 total games for 2008, 27 for 2009)
2009-20,672
2008-19,050

Both seasons have most of their home games on the weekend so far so I didn’t bother to break ti down by day

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

For both years?

I just saw the sample as being small so I didn’t average it. I deleted my spreadsheet so if you have it open then it’ll be nice to compare Monday-Thursday non-prime games and non-disney games between the years.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was looking at last year

Taking out the disney games also makes the sample pretty small to compare between the two years.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

What did we average in AUG and Sep last year?

Do you think we’ll exceed that average this Aug/Sep?

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who knows.

I doubt we’ll be far off because I bet there were a lot of preorders for those games.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

My opinion is no

Even if we take the lead in the ALE we won’t match it.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Last year it was all walk-ups.

I know for a fact there were more advance tickets sold.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there were

I just don’t think you’ll have as many as the “new” fans that showed up to late season games last year show up to late season games this year. Mainly because they just did it last year and the economy.

I’m sure we will see a good uptick in attendance if we are in contention…just not as much as last year.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

The economy is not a long term indictment of the area

They would face that obstacle in almost any city.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our only three homestands in Sept were Yankees/Red Sox/Twins

So September is skewed.

In August, we topped 20K twice for weekday games. Given there’s only 5 weekday games in August this year, 2 against the Red Sox, it won’t provide a good comparison. But I’ll tell you what—if in the 2 games against Seattle and 4 against the O’s in September, the team can’t top 20K twice, and the team is in the hunt, then I’ll join in and say the team should move. Deal?

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Although I don’t think 20k is good enough for a weekday game. That number needs to be closer to 25k. Yes it is unreasonable this year, but next year and in the long run it needs to be 25k

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tuesday June 23rd

RESULT ATT.
at LA Angels 4, Colorado 3 42,233
Minnesota 7, at Milwaukee 3 42,008
Boston 11, at Washington 3 41,517
at Atlanta 4, NY Yankees 0 40,828
St. Louis 3, at NY Mets 0 38,903
at Detroit 5, Chicago Cubs 4 38,046
San Francisco 4, at Oakland 1 32,854
at Toronto 7, Cincinnati 5 30,351
Kansas City 2, at Houston 1 30,049
San Diego 9, at Seattle 7 23,537
LA Dodgers 5, at Chicago Sox 2 22,251
at Arizona 8, Texas 2 21,379
Philadelphia 10, at Tampa Bay 1 19,608
Cleveland 5, at Pittsburgh 4 19,109
at Florida 7, Baltimore 6 10,222

Mean 30,193
Median 30,351

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

For one day during interleague play.

I honestly don’t know the answer, but if the team averages 20k on weekdays and 35k on weekends after this year I think they’d be fine with that.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I think the weekday number is a tad low, but I think as long as they get somewhere in the 27-29k range they’ll be happy (average all games)

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tuesday June 16th (Cubs data is missing so in reality it would be even higher)

RESULT ATT.
Chicago Sox at Chicago Cubs N/A
Toronto 8, at Philadelphia 3 44,958
at NY Yankees 5, Washington 3 44,873
at St. Louis 11, Detroit 2 44,021
at LA Dodgers 5, Oakland 4 41,169
at Boston 8, Florida 2 38,149
LA Angels 8, at San Francisco 1 34,716
Tampa Bay 12, at Colorado 4 28,582
at Kansas City 5, Arizona 0 26,974
at Minnesota 8, Pittsburgh 2 25,351
Milwaukee 7, at Cleveland 5 22,986
at Texas 6, Houston 1 21,676
NY Mets 6, at Baltimore 4 20,626
at Cincinnati 7, Atlanta 2 19,127
Seattle 5, at San Diego 0 17,040

Mean 30732
Median 27778

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

More Tuesdays

Tuesday June 9th
RESULT ATT.
at Boston 7, NY Yankees 0 37,883
at NY Mets 6, Philadelphia 5 37,152
at LA Dodgers 6, San Diego 4 35,313
Colorado 3, at Milwaukee 2 32,464
Chicago Cubs 7, at Houston 1 29,669
Detroit 7, at Chicago Sox 6 25,676
San Francisco 9, at Arizona 4 22,428
at Atlanta 4, Pittsburgh 3 20,124
Toronto 9, at Texas 0 17,535
at Baltimore 3, Seattle 1 17,358
Cincinnati 3, at Washington 2 16,274
LA Angels 4, at Tampa Bay 3 16,087
at Cleveland 8, Kansas City 4 15,038
at Florida 4, St. Louis 3 13,103
Minnesota 10, at Oakland 5 10,127

Mean 23,082
Median 20,124

Tuesday June 2nd
RESULT ATT.
at NY Yankees 12, Texas 3 43,948
at St. Louis 5, Cincinnati 2 35,507
at LA Dodgers 6, Arizona 5 32,853
at Atlanta 6, Chicago Cubs 5 30,262
at Toronto 6, LA Angels 4 26,809
at Minnesota 4, Cleveland 3 26,530
Boston 5, at Detroit 1 25,914
at Houston 3, Colorado 2 24,041
Oakland 5, at Chicago Sox 0 20,519
at Seattle 8, Baltimore 2 17,978
Philadelphia 10, at San Diego 5 17,625
at Washington 10, San Francisco 6 17,331
at Tampa Bay 6, Kansas City 2 13,604
at Florida 10, Milwaukee 3 10,831
at Pittsburgh 3, NY Mets 1 10,459

Mean 23,614
Median 24,041

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

At the beginning of the year I thought if we could get anywhere

near an end of year average around 27K we would be doing fine. It appears that is still within reach even with all the excuses, copouts, and joblessness.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

The weekday non-interleague is closer to 20k

Still closer to 25k than 20k though…

And we drew 13k one of the games…. (june 3rd)

10,000 less than average…..

the other we drew 16k with the average as 23k

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus I think its reasonable to compare the average from last season to the average so far this season

Expectations should be similar right now to what they were towards the end of last season so I don’t see why comparing the attendance marks is silly. I think comparing the beginning of last season to the beginning of this season is kind of misleading.

I can only imagine how band attendance will be if they team falls out of contention.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see your point

But we were expecting a huge uptick in early season games and I just don’t think we’ve got it. IF we remain in contention you are correct attendance will increase, but if we fall out it will get worse.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

But isn’t that a bad mark on the area?

I think we are actually agreeing. A few of us aren’t getting into the “why” the fans aren’t showing up whereas you are.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I think location is more of a factor than laziness or money. But the question comes back to what can the team do? They can’t make people motivated or make the games any cheaper…

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Win

That’s it. The only LT factor on attendance is winning.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is usually a chicken/egg type thing though

How can you win with no attendance and therefore no payroll?

In this case we got lucky and got the winning before the attendance. But it is unreasonable and impossible to expect them to sustain it with this attendance.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

No it isn't.

The attendance will come. Patience is key. Holding your own in this economy is huge. Fortunately we can compete at this payrole at least one more year.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the point is at the start of last year the thought was that the Rays were going to stink

So its not comparing apples to apples. I agree end of last to beginning of this isn’t exactly great either.

I don’t think we can reasonably compare 2009 to 2008 expectations ( for home games) until around the LA Angels series…

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is the variable that will make or break the season attendance- contention

I think they Rays have a good enough team to at least be in contention. Ownership does too.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

As long as the local media doesn’t resort to sky is falling tendencies.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wish that was the case

Contention won’t boost our 2nd half average to 34k a game…which is what we’d need to hit the pre-season goal

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Being league average?

I agree. The mean is definitely a joke (big markets skew the data obviously). The median is a good long term goal for the franchise. I didn’t expect we’d get there this year, but I did expect a bit closer than what we are.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't.

I still don’t. I was the one saying it wouldn’t happen. The economy is killing it. Everyone should have expected that coming in. If the FO didn’t I can see why WS bankers are at the heart of the current collapse (zinger).

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't imagine they throw a huge wrench in it

Considering new Yankees Stadium holds fewer people than the old one. Not sure about Citi Field.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

it’s website wednesday.
let’s talk about website wednesday.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

WW is a good abbreviation for Website Wednesday.

When I type Website Wednesday my fingers often get tired because Website Wednesday is so long. Also Wednesday is the hardest day of the week to spell, so that doesn’t help at all when I am trying to type Website Wednesday.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah because you're the chief architect behind building actual baseball analysis on this site.

I think you go more OT than any other poster. Not a criticism, but if you don’t want to read about it just don’t open the thread.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Karma, Baby. Karma

You got just what you asked for Matt Silverman. Messing with the Clearwater Threshers’ bobblehead promotions was one of the Rays dumbest moves of 2009. Keep opening your mouth and inserting your foot, you moron.

by LittleBoPeep on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I know this is probably a bad place to bring this up

But the problem is mostly with the stadium and location of the Trop. It’s in the middle of ghetto south side St. Pete. Pinellas county alone can’t support a professional baseball team. We would draw so many more fans if the team moved to Tampa.

by acablue on Jun 24, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree with you for the most part, although it isn't the only area

The trop is in a dump in a bad area.

I’d be shocked if the team wouldn’t draw more fans if there was an retractable stadium in Channelside (or downtown tampa area)

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the area is bad in terms of safety

In terms of things to do around the stadium it is pretty bad. Having more places to eat, drink, visit, etc increases the fun factor which would make more people willing to go to the games. Hell I don’t think I’d ever go to a Lightning game if it wasn’t in Channelside. And more people going = more fun = even more people going.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

There used to be more, I believe.

All shut down because the area was a ghosttown. There is some decent stuff, but one problem with the area is the need for tons of parking around the stadium. If they could have less parking, there would be more stuff I imagine.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

You can’t put a stadium in the middle of nowhere and expect businesses to thrive. I think you put it in a place where businesses are already doing well. The stadium just boosts their profit.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

True.

Like the Wharf in Baltimore. The stadium helped to rejuvinate the area. The issue is where in St. Pete? I would LOVE the waterfront stadium. I might even move back to FL for it. Probably the only way unless my parents give me there house when they retire.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind

Sort of misread your comment. That is why the waterfront would have been nice. There are about 25 bars/restaraunts within walking distance as opposed to just Fergs being close to the Trop

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would be awesome

You’d have the crowd of people just going to the bars around the area. Then just people going to eat. Plus the baseball crowd. Then baseball crowd in all those places around after and before the game. There’d be tons of people and tons to do which would increase the fun factor by a large amount. All of which would make people want to go.

People are followers. They like to do what the “hip” thing is to do.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like during the playoffs.

There was like a mini-village set up in the area. I think it could defs be like that in the future. It just sucks that our success came when the economy was tanking.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Things did sprout up a bit (mainly Fergs) around the end of the year

There just isn’t enough though for it to last. Put it in Channelside and you’d see 30K a night IMO. The bars already get packed but you’d see quite a bit more people and even more places springing up.

Hell just have Stu buy some of the land from Koules and Barrie. They need the cash. Or have Stu help finance part of the Bolts for the right to use the land. Have the city pitch in for some of the stadium, stu for some, and maybe the bolts too (depending on how they’d want to split up revenues in the area).

Tada. We’d all win.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

It would be a bit tough on congestion

But otherwise I agree. The fact that Channelside is in a bottleneck hurts though, and there would be jams getting in and going out.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is exactly the sound reasoning they used

to shoot down the waterfront stadium. Ladies and gentleman, the senior citizens of St Pete!

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why the new stadium cannot be in St Pete

We’ve learned our lesson of putting a stadium in a crappy location. If the citizens aren’t willing to build in a good location then move to an area that will.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was obvious I meant abandoned at 10 pm at night

Or hell at 7pm. How many restaurants/bars are open between Fergs and where the downtown St Pete bars start?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can walk 5 blocks, but I'd prefer to walk across the street.

But when I get there and that Bar is full, I’d like to walk a block down. One block down from Fergs in any direction is a parking lot. One block down from Andreychuks is a Hooters.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did I say Channelside?

I’m pretty sure I didn’t.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

*Not in this thread

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I work in that area

I’m all for it. That would be my 2nd choice behind Cside. I think Channelside is just set up better. Can put it on the water and it already has the infrastructure in place (tons of parking)

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes you did dipshit
But when I get there and that Bar is full, I’d like to walk a block down. One block down from Fergs in any direction is a parking lot. One block down from Andreychuks is a Hooters.

Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cmon

If you cannot see the difference between going from Andreychuks, to The Hut, to Hooters, to Bennigans, to Banana Joes etc an the atmosphere between those places to walking the 5 or so blocks between Fergs and the Bishop then I dunno what to tell you.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

Although I’m not sure what that has to do with comparing the atmosphere around the Trop with around the Forum

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, no need to call me a dipshit.

Secondly, I was just using that as a point of comparison, not as an example. So I’ll clarify it now: I don’t want to see them in Channelside. I think Feathersound is a good location. We already have 2 stadiums in Tampa and one is already in Channelside.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because the entire reason why the Trop was built in St. Petersburg was to promote the Tampa Bay Area as a sports friendly community.

This is the problem, TAMPA is not a big city, no matter how much people in Tampa think it is. Tampa needs surrounding counties in order for it to draw the populous to community events. If Tampa was by itself, they’d see a consistent 45k at Bucs games and 10K at Lightning games. This is why I don’t like the city of Tampa, and never have. The area at large has this ridiculous sense of elitism and entitlement that they don’t at all deserve.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It is too far

Say I get to the game today at 545. I walk by Fergs. Its packed. So now its 6. You suggest I walk 5 blocks stay for 20 minutes then 5 blocks back?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Both

After the game I’d just drive to downtown St Pete if I really wanted to go there.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus many other places….

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Last year I went to Comerica Park during interleague play when the Tigers were playing the Cards. It was a weekday, sweltering hot outside, and the stadium was still packed. People go there because the stadium is beautiful and has a lot to do for kids and families (there’s a mini carnival just past the entrance). The Trop is a dump…..

by acablue on Jun 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even excluding Orlando

It’s easier to get to Tampa from Pasco, Hernando, northern Hillsborough, Polk county, northern Pinellas, and southern Hillsborough than to St. Pete

by acablue on Jun 24, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

The only areas that would be at a disadvantage are southern Pinellas and Sarasota

by acablue on Jun 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

For me it's selfish.

I feel like the team is St. Pete’s, and I think all the newcomers from Tampa SHOULD have to make the effort.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm the type that sees no difference between Tampa/St Pete

I don’t identify with either city. I identify with the area.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have the same sentiments

But if they’re not willing to, what can you do? The best way to increase attendance is to accommodate the fans, not make the fans accommodate the stadium.

by acablue on Jun 24, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

My only problem

Is that a lot of Tampa and people north of there complain about the drive. The bucs draw so many fans from St Pete and Sarasota and nobody says a thing. I think if Tampa gets the Lightning and Bucs, St Pete should get the Rays. That being said if it isnt drawing, there isnt much you can do besides go to an area that will.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Many people do not attend baseball games just for the game

This isn’t the NFL. Baseball games draw for different reasons. Atmosphere and the social and family setting is a big part of that. The current location and the stadium itself destroy both of those settings at the Trop. There needs to be more things to do before and after the game as well as making the actual game time experience more fun independent of the game itself.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that you can relate the Rays similar to the way you relate the Bulls when looking at attendance.

The Bulls are a competitive, but not great team. You’d think that, considering how cheap tickets are for the games, that the chance to see a potential top-25 team play on a week to week basis would be an outstanding draw.

But in fact, it comparatively isn’t. They get decent attendance numbers, and great for their confrence, but in a football area, in a 65,000 seat stadium, that place should have no problems selling out.

Instead, they end up selling around 35,000 seats per game and give away another 11k. Mainly because the casual fan doesn’t see a good reason to go watch them play backwater I-AA U, since the true USF crowd migrates back to north tampa after the game, where all the USF bars and restaurants are. And it’s the same with the Trop. If you’re only going to go to the game because it’s an event for you, then you want to have something more to do then to watch the Rays play Baltimore. A popluar opponent does enough to make the game by itself an event, such as UCF vs USF or a ranked team. Just the same with the Rays against an ALE rival or a team with national reach like the Cubs, Atlanta, and Cleveland to a lesser extent.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent point

I’m a huge Rays fan and I try to go to as many games as I want. However on a Friday/Saturday I want to go out and do what normal 24 year old guys do. Having the Rays game, with little to no atmosphere, and just Fergs isn’t going to cut it. Sure that may be okay for me, but that isn’t going to persuade many of my friends who would rather go to far more happening places.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Get a campus. Get a campus feel. Then it will work.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You've mistaken not having a campus atomosphere with not having a campus.

There’s plenty of room, but the school has built out, not up. That’s the problem.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's true.

I think it feeds into the lack of atmosphere.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

The minus: An on-campus stadium would only have a capacity of about 45k

So it ends up being a wash.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you lose the recruiting advantage...

of playing in an NFL stadium. That is cited often by Leavitt as a huge tool.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 24, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

It should still be a cake draw.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol

Great point. So f’in annoying.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm seriously looking into moving out of this hellhole.

The leaders for replacements are all cities with a centralized population and mass transit. Why? So I can get around without having to drive a half hour to get places.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is nice.

St. Pete is better about it IMO. I grew up in N. Tampa, and now my parents live in Downtown St. Pete. I defs enjoy visiting more, now.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since when is downtown St Pete a bad area?

I think its a good spot that is only getting better (aside from the Baywalk fiasco). If the waterfront stadium had been approved we would have been fine. But old people in St Pete did not want it for some reason. Personally I wish we were drawing just a little better, enough to keep people happy, and we just played in the Trop for the next 5 years.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya thats true.

The best part of downtown is between 1st ave S and 1st ave N and 1st street to about 5th street. Thats a hike

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also its a parking issue

You want people to park all around and walk to the stadium. IMO baseball stadiums should not have football style parking lots. You want the people to have to walk past businesses and restaurants.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think

that was the main problem with the waterfront. The only option was to build a massive parking garage/structure, or have people park way offsite and take a trolly. Neither was going to get the OK from most of the population.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

The population are idiots

That is the type of parking situation you want. You want city parking spread out around the stadium on the street and in a few garages.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

FAT FAT FAT

Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good old Bucschat
Maddon is this area’s baseball version of Tony Dungy, his laid back philosophy does nothing to get the team ready to play a single game, it may bring better than average results over time, but don’t look for the team to be pumped up for anything other than a Hess wine tasting event. Starting with Longo and continuing with very poor hitting discipline as a team, they just did not appear ready to play a home game against the team that beat them in the World Series last year.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

.
it may bring better than average results over time, but don’t look for the team to be pumped up for anything

He’s right. I’d rather the team all jump around and shit than win games.

God I hate some of this area’s fans.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually I don't see what is wrong with the posters point

He essentially said Maddon is a slightly above average manager whos style may not be suited for the playoffs.

I certainly did not see him say he wanted a ‘rah rah’ type team at the expense of winning games.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention that the playoffs are an absolute crapshoot.

Perhaps Terry Francona should yell more. He has never won anything. Or Joe Torre.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you compare across managers you need to eliminate talent as a variable. It makes no sense to say Francona and Torre are better simply because they won.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jim Tracy is growing on me

He seems able to right a ship, but not necessarily get them over the hump. Maybe he could come in and replace Maddon and get us in playoffs.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uhhhh

I watched a team led by Dungy’s laid-back style beat my Bears in the Super Bowl

2009 Rays Baseball: God Damn It, Guys

by JMB on Jun 24, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is the bottom line sports fans

Last night we played a home game v PHI a re-match of last yhear’s WS and 19600 fans showed up, third lowest in all of MLB, ahead pf only the Marlins and barely above that highly touted CLE-PIT game

This is a disgrace, and reprting or commenting on it doesn’t make me a hater, but a very concerned fan

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Just my guess

I apologize if this has already been said because I honestly have not been able to read all of the almost 500 posts.

I think that many of the FO attendance projections were made based on the huge upswing in interest displayed by local residents during the offseason. Much of the increase in interest was due to people who didn’t previously take an interest in the team doing so because they had finally put a winning product on the field. Unfortunately, many of these new fans formed somewhat unrealistic expectations of how the team would perform going forward. Those fans were ready to show up and root for their team at the beginning of the season because they expected them to be in first place all season. Basically, the Rays have not performed at a high enough level to hold the attention of these bandwagon fans. They have become disappointed and disenchanted because they are only using last season’s results as their frame of reference. Therefore, they are not attending games, and the increased attendance projections were based on these bandwagon fans attending.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

4th place sucks

I only root for winners

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Solution is to move them to Hillsborough County

You would see more average attendance of weekday games. Weekend games would still be even higher attendance.

Hillsborough County has the funds available to build a new ball park. The Community Investment Tax passed in 1996 to build Raymond James stadium and fund community projects is estimated to generate close to 30billion in revenue over its’ 30 year life span. Only roughly 18billion of that has been allocated to actual projects. If you move the team to the vacant area of land across the interstate from the Florida State Fairgrounds you are able to move it closer to the Central population of the Area and according to the maps that would also be in an area of densest population in the market, unlike where Tropicana Field sits now. It would also be near the Seminole Hard Rock Casino and Hotel as well as the Ford Amphitheatre. The Intersection of Interstate 4 and Interstate 75 less than a mile away would also make it easier to pull from outlying population centers in the market without traffic and commute problems.

When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976.

Are we a bandwagon city emphatic answer: YES but when an ownership group such that the Rays have now with the committment to putting a quality product on the field, comes along, Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa would fully embrace them.

My personal thoughts is Sternberg knows this and is really angling to move the team to Hillsborough County. That is why he proposed the controversial ballpark to hear public outcry from Pinellas County he wants the people of Pinellas County to fight him tooth and nail on a new ballpark until 2012. The penalty for dropping the lease of Tropicana Field beyond 2012 would be $35million vs. the current penalty of $70mil. As an owner if you can save $35mil and get a brand new park in the next county over and increase your revenue you would be crazy not to do it. I think this is the angle that Sternberg has been thinking since he bought controlling intrest in the team..

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

A-*FUCKING*-HEM
When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976

/END THREAD

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That location is terrible.

I would off myself if they moved there. Like I’d become a Nats fan or whatever city I’m living in.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the problem with talking about stadium locations.

What sounds terrible to one person sounds great to another. I live in Valrico and work in Brandon. If they built the stadium at that location I might buy season tickets. As it is, it’s difficult for me to make it to more than a dozen games a year.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a family.

It’s a good area to raise a family, and at the time I bought my house it was more affordable than most parts of the Bay area.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know

But I’ve asked myself the same question a few times, so I like to remind myself.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

With Hillsborough County

There is more disposable income to support a season ticket base too. Why else do you think that the Weekend games are better attended now?

Hillsborough County Residents are not going during the week. The weekend shows what a season ticket base in Hillsborough County would look like to the Rays.

And don’t give me the shit it is because of the concerts. I don’t think people really give two Rats’ asses about seeing Pat Bennatar or Kool N the Gang or any of the other acts they say is helping to drive ticket sales. Because if they were those acts would still be touring.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It isn't JUST that the Tampons are going to the games.

Most people prefer weekend games. No matter where they live.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Florida State Fairgrounds is just as inaccessible to people living in Pinellas, northwest Hillsborough and west Pasco as St. Pete is to people living in Brandon.

If you’re going to move the stadium to Tampa, put it somewhere that it’s actually accessible to the people with disposable incomes. FSF is only accessible to people in New Tampa out of those areas. Put it somewhere that people from Carrolwood, Bayshore, etc. can get to it as well.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally think downtown Tampa would be the best location.

I just don’t know if there is anywhere down there to put it.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plant Park

Across the river from the Performing Arts Center

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

So it's settled

Get Stu on the line and tell him we need 30 secs to change his life.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The City came out strong for the Buccanneers

When they had an ownership group that put a decent product on the field. Had Hugh Culverhouse asked for a new stadium we would have told him to pound sand.

Bottom line is Hillsborough County is where the money is and the citizens would not even have to vote on a new stadium. All the Hillsborough County Commissioners would do is take a vote and allocate the funds and it would be built.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The city of Tampa without the surrounding community is smaller then Portland, and they're having trouble supporting a basketball team.

The City hasn’t done jack shit. The Tampa Bay Area supported the Bucs.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he is proposing that only Tampaites could go

I’m pretty sure it would be open to the public.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

...
When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976

You know, I could link to my “the city of Tampa are full of elitists” posting above all day long, but that’s just too much work.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are you guys so sensitive about that?

Most people read city of tampa and assume the author is talking about the metro area. I didn’t say I was from East Orlando when I lived there, I always said I was from Tampa or near Tampa when I live in NPR, and when I was growing up I always said I was from near Rochester, not the shitty town I was actually from.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure that he is making it specifically clear that he's referring to Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa, not merely "Tampa" or "Tampa Bay"

The use of the words ‘we’ and ‘us’ also makes it pretty clear.

I’m used to the Tampa Bay area being called “Tampa”, it irks me, but whatever; if someone’s too lazy to lay out an extra syllable, no biggie. But Tampa resident elitism extends way beyond the world of sports.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

False

Hillsborough already said they wouldnt pay for the stadium. If the FO wants a new one it looks like they are going to have to fork over more than they want.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The taxpayers said they would not support a new tax for a new stadium

There is a difference. As any Hillsborough County resident if they would like the Rays to move to Hillsborough County without a new tax and you would get an overwhelming yes.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how exactly would it get built?

I guess they could try something like what the Yankees, Mets and Nationals did (public bonds backed by PILOTS), but that would still mean that the team isn’t paying property taxes. And two of those three still needed to have some taxes to get the job done.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Commisioners would vote

To allocate some of the future revenue from the community investment tax that was passed by vote in 1996. Voila no new taxes and a brand new stadium. They have 18bil projected until 2027 that is currently unallocated from the CIT. that is BILLION with a B. I think they could take $500 mil from that and build a very up to date and state of the art ball park that would rival the best baseball parks in MLB right now.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

No ballpark made in the past 7 or 8 years has cost less than $800 million

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you joking?

I remember in the early 90’s, the Bucs were almost completely supported by the other team’s fans buying tickets to games. Games against the Packers and Bears were like home games for the other team.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

You couldn't watch a Bucs home game on TV until like '97.

I remember having to listen to them on the radio because my Dad hates football in person (NFL anyway).

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if you read my post Jack ass instead of just rattling off at the keyboard

You would have notice I said “when the Buccaneers got an ownership group that was committed to winning”

The Glazers bought the team in 1995. The stadium tax was approved in 1996 the same year they hired Dungy.

Read before you type and you wont look foolish when you sprout off truths that have nothing to do with what I said.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bucs from a financial standpoint

Even during the Culvehouse years have never been in the red financially in any season. So yes I would say they have been supported since 1976.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, so they have been supported? But then what is this?

When they had an ownership group that put a decent product on the field. Had Hugh Culverhouse asked for a new stadium we would have told him to pound sand.

by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you ask for something

The people that you are asking for it from should be satisfied with the product on the field. Hugh Culverhouse never showed a committment to putting a winning product on the field.

In spite of that Hugh Culverhouse was still able to make money on the team even with attendance being abysmal at best.

Now those same fans that weren’t showing up at the game would have been asked to pay a 1/2 cent sales tax would have voted No had Hugh Culverhouse asked for it because he had not shown a committment to putting a competetive product on the field.

It is kinda like helping those who help themselves. The residents felt they would see a return on their Investment and so far they have. A decade straight of sold out games I would say shows that they can be supported with the right committment to putting a quality product on the field. You know the same such ownership group committment the Rays have currently.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand why they wouldn't have voted to build a new stadium.

But you said the city of Tampa has supported the Bucs since 76, but yet they still wouldn’t have voted to build a new stadium. If they wouldn’t have voted to build a new stadium, then they didn’t support the team, at least not completely. Just because enough fans went to enough games for the owner to turn a profit doesn’t mean that a city is supporting the team.

by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, comparing the two is retarded.

The NFL’s average attendance is higher in every city. Stupid people love the NFL, and they outnumber the rest of us. Throw in the fact that games are once a week (generally on weekends), and it shouldn’t be a shock if you think about it.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of the NFL.

Who was it that said I was an idiot and blah, blah, blah last year for saying the Bucs would be a middling team that misses the playoffs?

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand it is a weak correlation

But …. if the Lightning can get a new arena built in the city of Tampa … Then there is absolutely no reason the Rays can’t.

If anything …. this is not a hockey area. Football and Baseball are the sports in this area that should be doing the best respectively.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true, but

I think part of the reason that stadium was able to be built was because it can be used for other things, such as concerts, arena football, and hosting NCAA tournament games.

by acelion on Jun 24, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

With a new stadium

They would be able to Host some All-Star games here as well as possibly bidding on the SEC and or ACC baseball tournaments. Possible location for the Florida State League All-Star game too. It could also be built as a dual use facility as well.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not enough revenue in those other items to make it worth it, probably

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was replying to RJ, not you

No need to call me a jackass. That was uncalled for.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Read before you type and you wont look foolish when you sprout off truths that have nothing to do with what I said."

And if you actually paid attention, you’d see my response wasn’t to you. I agree with what you said, for the most part.

Who’s the jackass now?

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

My apologies

I will take the Jackass hat and wear it for myself for the rest of the day.

by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

My detector is broken

My gaydar hasn’t been working for a while either, which is unfortunate. I thought I met a cool new group of friends, but it turned out they just wanted me to be a slave.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well you replied to the right man

Johnny “powerbottom” Comeback can show you the ropes for a fee

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sounds pretty logical

It would also be beneficial to us fans in Orlando who would come out to more games if it didn’t take forever to get there. If I left work at 5, I’m dealing with rush hour traffic all the way down I-4 and then have to deal with traffic through Tampa and St. Pete, so by the time I even get to the stadium the game’s already started.

I also want to say something about attendance in the state of the economy. This has been a common theme from some of the comments I’ve seen, and this might have been already said earlier (I dont have time to read 500 comments). Baseball, and professional sports in general, make most if not all of their money/profits from government subsidies. Yes, higher attendance is nice and helps a bit, but deviations in attendance are only a minor part of the revenue of a team, and should not solely cause ownership to consider moving a team. Considering the Rays have only had one good season so far, and bandwagon fans need more than that to go to more games, I’d say we’re doing pretty well. As others have said, let’s wait till postseason again to get more insight into attendance.

I will say though, a dome in Florida for a sport that takes place in summer is definitely the best way to go.

by bejaman on Jun 24, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

No offense.

The last concern of the ownership should be Orlando. They want people from Orlando to watch on TV, but to expect them to come to more than a few weekend games a year is silly. Orlando people can just make weekends out of the beach and catching some Rays.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true

But if ownership is concerned about attendance, they should make it easier for people nearby to get to the games. Seriously, Orlando is a huge market that’s just two hours away. Where else are there two relatively big markets that close to each other (exceptions: NY/Boston area, and some areas of California)? Some teams in other areas (someone mentioned Detroit earlier) get fans from hours away to come on a semi-regular basis.

Maybe there’s just more stuff to do in Florida during the summer

by bejaman on Jun 24, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but...

It really is just a weekend thing, and you can’t expect huge jumps in attendance from it. It’s a concern, but it’s a minor one. The bigger concern is getting onto TV in those markets.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are a jackass

Orlando is where it’s at. Big money. I’m talking large dollars, as well as a drinking problem that runs about 50,000 deep. If you build it, they will come, and spend much of their dollars to have a good time. Oh yes people will come Glass.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edit

At least, government subsidies and taxpayer money are the biggest supplier of money as far as stadiums and the initial years of a team go. I’m sure merchandising plays a growing role as the team strings together some successful years.

by bejaman on Jun 24, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not reading the entire thread, but I think I saw someone mention payroll cuts.

This seems more likely than anything else. The good news is, we have the best in the business at putting together a roster efficiently. The bad news is, you risk alienating some fans by replacing fan favorites with youth/equally talented free talent without the name.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

who are we going to replace?

C.C and Aki are like 90% likely to go within or after this year. Pena might be gone and our other fan favorites include longo, and B.J (I’m seriously doubting this)

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know Virginia

could always use a sports team, we are bored and have nothing to do.

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Move it to Richmond.

They have a nice empty stadium that the AAA team left.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I live like

20 minutes away from richmond

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, it's a horrible stadium

Which is part of why they left.

Tidewater/Richmond couldn’t support an MLB team if it wanted to. NFL, sure, but I think it would even struggle to support a NBA team. Just not enough people there, and not enough big business either.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's not.

I just have no sense of humor.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

People in Richmond can support MLB

if they can be a contender in 5 years, which you know is not going to happen. Washington Redskins and Baltimore Ravens have too much hold of the NFL here. NBA is a maybe.

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

This is Richmond, almost anything is better than watching the nats and O’s (although {im going to lose my soul and dignity saying this} i think they are going to be a contender soon.

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The greater Richmond area only has about 1.2 million people

Tidewater has about 1.9 million people. Even if you combine the two, it’s still smaller than the Tampa Bay area, and it’s still well over an hour drive to get from one to the other.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ehh, It's Ok

5% tax is not half bad.

We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country

by 4QB on Jun 24, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh good

Another attendance thread. Nice.

2009 Rays Baseball: God Damn It, Guys

by JMB on Jun 24, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Pat Burrell sucks because of it.

Also, BJ really is lazy, but we don’t know it because nobody ever goes to the games.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides simple demographics, why the team won't move:

Nevermind that none of these areas match the population of Tampa-St. Pete metro, here are some other major obstacles for anyone concerned about the future location of the team (completely unwarranted IMO unless all avenues for a new stadium are totally exhausted, as was the case in Montreal).

Portland and Charlotte can’t even agree on financing for new AAA parks (Charlotte currently plays across the border in South Carolina; Portland wants to convert the current AAA stadium to MLS soccer only)
Las Vegas is in a world if economic hurt and MLB probably wouldn’t touch the area even in good times.
San Antonio currently has a subpar AA stadium and is next to last in Texas League attendance despite having double/triple the size of other league markets.

The worst case isn’t that the team would move (because the likelihood is so small), it is that the current owner(s) would cash out and hand over controlling interest to a bumbling idiot.

by RATW on Jun 24, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions  

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