Matt Silverman On Attendance
"Based on all the information we had, we projected full houses. It's a huge miss, and it’s bewildering to us."
Ouch
over 2 years ago
Tommy Rancel
566 comments
0 recs |
Comments
A real shame
thousands flood a perenial 500 team like the Bucs, yet won’t watch a good baseball team playing in the best division
As a fan i'm frightened we will lose this team
and someday watch this ownership group thrive where they appreciate baseball
Appreciate 10 seasons of shitty baseball
and 1 and a half seasons of good baseball? I think its going to take a little longer than this and the fact that Silverman said this is really surprising to me. It just seems like he is freakin out because of one midweek series. Doesnt change the fact how much attendance is up this year no matter the consistency or which games make the number look better. The fact is the fan base grew immensely in 1 season and I believe it will continue to grow.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rays are averaging 500 more fans per game in 2009 compared to 2008...
That’s embarrassing….
True
I dunno maybe Im just trying to look at the glass half full. I know merchandise has to be way up, and it has seemed like our attendance has been better, but numbers dont lie. Its just really frustrating as a fan and I cant imagine it from a management standpoint
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
are you getting that info from B-R?
our attendance guy here had us at 25k per game in his last update…which was a while ago, i suppose.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said Tampa is a bandwagon city
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm usually one to put things in context, but I can't tonight.
Fuck everything. Move the team to San Juan. It’ll give me an excuse to get out of the country for a bit every summer.
So long, Sweet Lime!
I can't stand Charlotte beating this city at anything
So I defecate on that idea.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Move the team to Tampa and I will go even more
I already have weekend season tickets, it’s just a pain to go to weekday games when I have to drive 30 min from South Tampa to USF in the morning. I just don’t feel like driving another 30 min the other way right after I get home to go to a game. That bridge just isn’t inviting while my car is breaking down.
Also, beer is almost $10 now which isn't cool.
There’s only so many I can chug in the parking lot before the game. And bring back $1 dog night. I want Staats to make fun of me while I try to eat 5 hot dogs in one half inning.
by Albertrayon on Jun 23, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
if you have $30 you can still try
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Heater...
Joe started this by showing everyone that he doesn’t care about winning…..BJ batting lead-off, sticking with Fatty Navarro and struggling Sonnanstine……..The Yankees sat A Roid, and the Sox did Ortiz…..yet Joe is afraid to sit Navarro? Please………give me a real manager who tries to win games and not worry about egos and the attendance will go up.
Everyone on the Heater is a moron.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 23, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Uneducated and bandwagon fans pay as much for tickets as everyone else
This is one instance where what people think on the Heater is actually relevant.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Navarro isn't the reason people aren't going to games.
And if he is just move the team already.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So if he sat Navi
We would have sold out tonight? THE TIME IS NOW
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't look good
Honestly I think the answer is what we are all scared of…This area just cannot support baseball.
I wish it is just a stadium and location issue. The problem with that is we may never know if that is the case.
Unless the team moves to Tampa, I suspect the area will lose them.
I got bashed for saying it last year. Everyone told me to wait til this year when attendance would pick up.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Either move the team close or into Tampa
Or move it to Portland
by putupyourDUKES on Jun 24, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Not Portland
All we need is another team stuck in the Northwest
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Jun 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Portland doesn't have the population or corporate base to support a major league baseball team
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I think the area can support baseball
the problem is there is to much baseball. There are so many minor league teams in the area with dollar beer nights and outdoor stadiums that are a lot of times closer to home. That’s tough. Also all of the little leaguers are playing all-stars right now so those famililes can’t make it to a Rays game.
That may be the case...
I’m sure there are valid reasons why fans aren’t showing up. The fact is that they aren’t showing up. The bottom line is what matters. The fans are falling way short and the team should move.
you're right.
If we love this team we need to try harder. I’ve only been to a couple of games this year myself so I can’t blame other people.
It isn't your fault
The problem isn’t with the fans that actually go to the games. The Rays actually have a good solid core of fans. They just make up all of the attendance all of the time. As in we don’t have enough fans that go once or twice. We have plenty of fans that go 4 or 5 times a season (or more).
In other words our fan base has passion, but is just not broad enough.
This is why I think promotions won’t really help. All it will do is make a fan that goes 5+ times a year pick game X over game Y. It won’t bring out a fan that rarely or never goes to the game.
Either Silverman is bluffing, or he's not nearly as smart as we give him credit for.
No less than a dozen people on this site in every thread on this topic says the same thing. No one goes to weekday games.
That’s the sole reason I go to weekday games. There’s no beer-swilling, peanut-downing fatass next to me making me listen as he bitches to his wife about everything under the sun.
Weekday games are going to draw 10-20K unless there’s a special circumstance (See: Cubs, Chicago). Especially not if you increase the ticket price 60% for the weekday game. If Silverman can’t see that, he’s either blind or a fool.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this
it sucks that we can’t sell out weekday games, but this shouldn’t have surprised the FO in any way.
Selgy
I don’t think the attendance on this actual game suprised him. I think what is surprising Stu and the crew is that this area just doesn’t support baseball. Ownership has done every possible thing to boost attendance. The fans aren’t delivering.
How much of that is from half of the area being unemployed?
Well maybe not half, but this is Florida as a whole:

Not good, notice how it is increasing over historic averages before the “recession” was even in full bloom. Florida is F’ed in the A, get out while you can. Move the Rays to Rochester, NY. Another 61,000 people were fired last month, the cost of living is crazy, and most people are so far in debt they can’t afford to go to a game, let alone 5. 417,000 people lost their job from May 08 to May 09.
Breakdown by regional counties
Hernando – 12.7% unemployment
Hillsborough – 10.7
Pasco – 11.7
Pinellas – 10.4
These are just the people that are “unemployed” with all the traditional caveats within their tracking. How many other people are nervous that they will be next?
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we have a bit of a different interpretation of Silverman's words
I don’t think he was shocked that the fans didn’t show up. I think he has known this was going to be the case for awhile. I think his quote is more about saying that if the fans can’t show up to this series than they never will. He is just pointing out that it is unacceptable.
Also many of us realize that this type of crowd will the norm (in fact a little high) for weekday games. However that is unacceptable. If we are only going to draw 15k for weekday games then the team should move.
If that is the max the fanbase can muster, even though at this point it is predictable, then this team should move out of the area.
I wish it would move to Tampa, but I don’t see why ownership would take that chance. They should move to an area that doesn’t have, at that time, almost a couple decades of no support.
Without doing research I can't say for sure
Charlotte would be my prime candidate though.
Well they'd build a stadium
I’m not sure how the NFL stadium would be for say a year of baseball.
Obviously there would be a lot of t’s to cross and a lot of i’s to dot. However if the research and evidence shows Tampa Bay cannot support the team then they should move them. If it means sitting in front of crowds in St Pete of 500 fans for a year or two after the announcement then so be it.
So...
You think in this economy where the banking industry has been killed, the capital of the banking industry is going to build a new stadium? You think they’ll take a chance on moving to a football stadium in a city with no history of baseball success without a state-built stadium? Not going to happen.
I meant moving to the NFL stadium for a year as the stadium was being constructed.
And while the banking industry took a hit the demographics are far better for baseball in a city such as Charlotte. You can’t build a fan base on the snowbird elderly.
Baseball needs middle class working adults. Tampa solely lacks that in comparison to other cities.
BofA got hit
but isn’t going under. I don’t seem this as a long term problem for Charlotte.
Going forward I'd expect the banks to purchase less suites and what not
But the general workforce makes enough money and is plentiful enough to be a good foundation for a baseball franchise.
And Panthers fans are notoriously fair-weather minded
So what would make that area different from this one?
So long, Sweet Lime!
Maybe it wouldn't be
But this area isn’t getting it done. I’d rather take a chance on an area that probably will fail, but might work out than an area that will at that time have 2 decades of failure.
It isn’t that any other area is guaranteed to be better than ours. It is a matter of our area getting a shot and failing.
Won't happen in CLT
I live in Charlotte. There is talk of losing our basketball team (and people here care more about basketball than baseball). The city funded that stadium and it has been a train wreck, no way they build another. We are having problems building a new minor league stadium for that matter.
The point is, there is NO city that makes sense to move a baseball team now. That in combination with the massive state and municipal budget shortfalls, no city will be able to fund a new stadium.
This
Lived in NC for 5 years, and have lots of friends there. No way the team moves to NC. They just care only about college hoops.
Very true
lived there myself for a year and that area would be way worse than this one. What they talked about was putting the stadium in the middle of nowhere equidistant to Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Greensboro and I can promise you they would draw less than we do.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Charlotte's in worse shape than Tampa
And it’s not like they have a massive population base either.
A couple years ago (before the recession), I saw a study (I think by Fortune Magazine) which basically said that the only two markets that could support a MLB franchise that don’t already have one are Northern New Jersey and San Fernando Valley, but I’m sure the Yankees and the Angels would kick and scream like hell if someone tried to move a team to either of those places.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I'd die to know how many of you actually went to that game.
I did. I work full time and I live in fucking Lutz. I feel great this morning.
Did you go? Or just bitch in the GDT? Do you live here? Do you see all the Rays gear around the area?
So long, Sweet Lime!
I didn't go last night
I’m going tonight. I average around 30 games per year.
Gear is nice, but the attendance is just not there. I’m just stating the obvious. It is unacceptable. My personal feeling is the Rays should stay here if they only average 1 fan a game…me. But if I take my bias out of it then I’m starting to see that this area just cannot support the team.
Also regarding gear…I wonder how much of that is because of the newness of the logo etc.
What difference does the logo make?
They’re supporting the team. That team store is packed every game.
I’d really like to know where to find FSN/Sun Sports’ ratings breakdown this year. I have a hunch that they’re pretty good.
So long, Sweet Lime!
When a new logo/name comes out there is always a huge uptick in sales. For example I bought a couple jerseys and a couple hats last year. This year not so much (since I already have it).
But they aren't just going to do it because its THERE
They’re going to do it because they care about the team. It’s not like merch is cheap.
So long, Sweet Lime!
I agree
Their promotions department sucks. Although honestly I doubt how many people would go. It is so cheap alraedy. And if they did dollar hot dogs or beers then would they really make more money? Would more fans really go?
I follow the Indians too, and they are very successful at filling the stadium for some afternoon games
by such co-op as weather day promos which expose kids to the game
Stop looking at me as the 'enemy'
I’m simply suggesting an idea that’s worked
The Dbacks and Rockies are outdrawing us
how many years of success have they had? Its stupid to imply the team doesn’t draw dick because they are new
Those two teams also do not play the Yankees and Red Sox. The # of their fans showing up to the stadium is significantly more than what we have.
The good news, bad news is
we got a team because we had a venue, that’s the good news
The bad news is it’s in DT St Pete
Yeah
The location and the stadium itself is in the dumps.
Btw hasn’t Colorado and Arizona outdrawn us every year?
Don't they have brand new parks?
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
The citizens built them. Ours won’t. That is a mark against the area.
The citizens of Pinellas won't.
Not the whole Bay area
by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
They shouldn't.
I’d rather the area lose the team than see the beleagured area strapped with a tax burden for a luxury item.
Leave your politics at home W.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely
He isn’t dumb. This is smoke and mirrors. Remember when the Bucs were going to move? The Giants? Etc? They want a new stadium which will boost revenue. They can then put a better product on the field consistantly. they won’t move unless it’s across the bay, which I doubt.
The economy is in the shitter right now, and I imagine attendance is down across the league. If they honestly didn’t expect this then I lose a lot of faith in the FO. I was calling it in every attendance thread before the year. What is unemployment in the Bay Area right now? What is the market doing? How are prices going for those on fixed incomes? Luxury goods take a hit during recessions, and that’s what baseball games are. The more important thing, I think, is TV ratings because they are a real barometer of how the area feels about the team.
Totally agree about prices
$20 for the cheapest ticket in a terrible economy isn’t the best way to go for any weeknight games, no matter who we are playing. The average family of 4 (pretty reasonable guess to how most of our fans our coming to games) would only be paying around $50 for a game after fees at ticket prices last year but ended up paying $85 last night, huge difference in these times, especially with recently rising gas prices. That’s why you saw so many douche-bag Phillies fans like the ones that sat all around me last night since they only have to buy three tickets a year in Tampa. The average Rays can’t afford to go to every game of a series like this with other big games on the horizon at the current prices.
by WASHANDLEERAYSFAN on Jun 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
OK Chicken Littles....
Where are they moving? Do some research and provide a market that you think would be better than the current one.
by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the Rays pay me I'd gladly do it
You can’t seriously ask someone on a blog to do work that is worth thousands of dollars?
Asking posters to do something that would take hundreds of hours is by far the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this blog
You’ve taken the prize for dumbest comment. The chances that someone has the resources and the expertise to do such research on this blog is close to nil. In such a case that person exists what are the odds that he will do it for free just to appease Mr. rglass? 1,000,000 to 1?
We all know what you were trying to do with your comment. I just figured I’d call your lame attempt out. Have a good day.
You know what? Why don’t you do the research that shows that baseball can work in Tampa Bay going forward?
I don't want you to do that.
I wasn’t asking for that you moron. I know you couldn’t pull it off. I said “do some research.” Population, current stadium possibilities, etc. That takes 15 minutes of wiki. There is nowhere, though, so it won’t do you much good.
The thing is, in terms of size, both of those markets are legitimately more appealing then this one.
Obviously Montreal doesn’t have a team, and NYMetro is big enough to support a 3rd.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I was thinking they'd just change their name to Écouteieres
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
The Listeners?
Ma Francais es tres mal apres tout c’est annees.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ecouter is the verb to listen, but like I said it's been a while.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
No I think your right.
I’ll just use Google instead.
The team should be called, ‘Les cessions’.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Les Fags des Montreal
Or you know The Habs
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
If you're not careful, we're going to get some Canadians fans on here to start trolling about how bat Lightning ownership is.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
You don't want to start me off on that road.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
We know how bad the ownership is
Oren Koules needs to go back to making shitty movies for sick fuck retards. Should have left Torts alone and brought in Scotty Bowman to GM.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
There is nowhere
Someone already did the work.
http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/36.html
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
No one in the front office has ever hinted about moving..
I don’t think that’s what it is about. No other available area is extremely attractive. The Rays are here no matter what.
The Rays need to figure out what motivates people to go to games. That’s the issue. A lot of us in this area did not grow up going to live baseball games and are content just staying home and watching on TV. I go to about twenty games a year and am not sure what would motivate me to attend more.
20 is more than enough
It is more about getting the vast majority of the area that goes to 0 games to go to 1 game.
A new stadium would go a long way toward that
My family is from Tigers country and their attendance was terrible until they built a new very cool stadium and fielded a team that made it to the world series. The Rays have that team they just need a great place to go watch them. People in Detroit don’t have any money either, but many of them are going to games because it’s a great place to watch baseball.
Just curious, how is Detroit pricing?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Detroit also draws from all over Michigan, do you think any of the hood rats from the ghost towns are going to a game?
Not trying to sound like a dick, just pointing to the fact that the stadium is accessible to many parts of the state, it doesn’t cater to 2 counties. Bring Orlando within a reasonable distance.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm just saying
maybe they should have the Robo-Los action figure and Aki Rattle Drum giveaways during ther week
Selgy
I don't think there is much a major relocation
More likely a slash in payroll
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
That is certainly going to happen
Relocation would be on the long-term horizon. If attendance doesn’t pick up then you’ll see a slash in payroll next year and the year. They’ll ask for a stadium and if they don’t get it then they’ll have to slash payroll some more. Then they’ll start looking elsewhere. Relocation won’t become an option for about 5 years and I doubt they’d find a city for 8 or so years. Those guesses may even be a bit short.
I hope you are right about waiting until next year
b/c I am confident attendance will pick up in late August/September if the Rays are in contention. Even if they aren’t you will have some snow bird migration.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Great
That will lead to even less attendance so the team will have legitimate reasons to move.
That is what happens
If the fans don’t show up the team cannot sustain payroll. They cut payroll and the team gets worse and less fans show up. It is a viscious cycle.
The team got great on a low payroll and the fans did not show up.
Its the ticket prices...
at least in part. Weekday games should not be “prime” games unless we are playing the Red Sox, the Yankees, or the Cubs. We have never had good attendance on Tuesdays and jacking up the price is not going to help. That said, I was there last night and I did not think the crowd was that bad. There seemed to be more fans than a typical weekday game. It was just that the first inning took the wind out of our sails and the Rays didn’t do anything to get the fans back into it.
This. Last night's attendance was the highest it has been for a Tuesday all season.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And?
It is still unacceptable. Going from god awful to just awful isn’t exactly something to hang out hats on.
What is the evidence that we will ever go from awful to acceptable (say average)?
People don't decide to become everyday fans overnight. The bottom line is people in this town are lazy. You can't make 81 games seem like an event every night.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
If you only went to two games a year, would you pick a Tuesday against Philly, when prices are up?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Attendance is down, through this point last year, at 20 out of 30 ballparks.
On average, MLB attendance is down 1500 fans per game. Now, the new NY parks throw a monkey wrench in the numbers, but still.
The Rays are up 4200 fans per game. That’s second best in the majors behind the KCR. If you were expecting full houses, sure, you should be disappointed right now. But you never should have expected full houses.
Rays attendance is up significantly. As they remain in the pennant race and divisional race, it should continue to go up.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
KC's attendance is only up because Grienke was playing out of his mind earlier this year.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I did. Grienke is single-handedly responsible for KC being relevant.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Please give me attendance when he pitches v other SP
And include weekends or weekday games
So you want the crowd numbers for every game KC has played this season?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Here you are, Jackass.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2009-schedule-scores.shtml
Notice the games Grienke and Meche started get 20s-30s. The ones they don’t, attendance is in the teens.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, so now it's Greinke AND Meche
dude, all i’m saying is your nitpicking stats, like so many here do
Royals attendance is up—who cares wgy?
It's not nitpicking. Meche had two games he played with high attendance.
I’d rather include him than have you get high and mighty about two games.
How do you ask “Who cares why?” The whole point of this conversation is discovering why this team’s attendance isn’t skyrocketing (which it never will). I point to KC because they’re the only team that has improved more than Tampa Bay.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
makes sense
I used to only go to games Kaz pitched from ‘05-’07, no sense in watching Damon Hollins bat if we’re down 5 runs cause of Fossum etc…
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Make sure to take day of the week into account.
I could see some pitchers getting “lucky” or “unlucky” with which days they’ve pitched home games over half a season.
KC has a “new” stadium this year, too, with only moderate price increases.
Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone on the KC site broke this down..
KC attendance went up with giveaways/promotions, not due to Greinke.
A voice of reason...
Thanks Sky, but the chicken littles in these parts will still bitch and moan about what we all knew was coming.
Why don't you do some research?
Before any of these numbers have any real meaning you need to at least post the proportion of Yankee/RS home games so far this year compared to last year? What about days of the week?
no
I have work to do, and I am not the one crying. I think we’ll see a nice increase compared to other teams by the end of the year.
Wow talk about being a hypocrite
Whatever floats your boat though
Honestly
I have put a up 100 fanposts with research. I don’t have time, and idiots just ignore anything rational. So I generally don’t do it anymore.
I know you've done previous work
I’m just saying you can’t expect someone else to do research on an issue when you aren’t going to do it yourself.
I have done it.
I KNOW why it won’t work. I know why they won’t move. Me telling you things that I’ve read does little good. Doing a little (which is what I was looking for) might change your mind. I may try to do something later, but I’m already wasting enough time considering I have a huge deadlkine to meet Friday.
Go work
I never said they will move. I just said that baseball isn’t and hasn’t worked in this area so they should try something new. If they can’t then we will just go back to an irrelevant franchise drawing the smallest crowds in the league competiting for the #1 pick.
The Articles of Confederation were a poorly planned exercise in democracy and didn't pan out
Perhaps a move across the bay is in order.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Let;s not worry about attendance at all!!
There is now way this team will ever have the balls to move! I dare them to do it. Every other market sucks too.
First, predicting a baseball market is difficult. Everyone thought the area would do better than it has. Second, do you really think the team is saying this stuff to try to drum up more attendance? Personally, I don’t. So what if they move and fail in a new marker, either way we’ve lost them. How often does the FO say things and not follow through with them?? Sternberg has said the Trop is not sustainable for his business. So either the team ends up with a new stadium or we lost them.
You want some markers:
Vancouver, Indy, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Charlotte-Raleigh-Durham, NY, Virginia, OKC, Columbus.
all you will do is make blab some anecdotal evidence about how those markets all suck so I don’t really see the point in this exercise.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I need to edit my posts better
sorry
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Vegas or TX
The rest there is no way in hell. Vancouver is in Canada. That worked well.
Indy I would highly doubt. the MW is shot economically, and it’s a basketball state.
CLT and the triangle are 4 hours apart. Neither could support a pro team.
Where in Virginia?
OKC? HA
Columbus? No way.
Austin might work as well as San Antonio
Toronto has worked out ok, Montreal was a joke. I think Vancouver would be closer to Toronto than Montreal.
Vegas depends on the housing market bouncing back. They’ve been crushed by sub-primes.
I’ll have to do more research on Virginia, but U believe eastern virginia could support a team. Lots of people close together.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Like the tidewater area?
I seriously doubt it. That’s just going from my knowledge of Coastal Virginia as a locale more than anything. It’s fairly poor and not anymore centrally located than Tampa/St. Pete.
Toronto area is as big as Chicago
Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Toronto is about the size of Chicago
Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You really think
that they would bring new teams to NY or Ohio to compete with teams with established fanbases?
Selgy
I think NYC
Could support a third team. Maybe not Columbus.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
if we already have good relative #s it surely will spike during a wildcard chase.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
As it did last year
It won’t increase as much as last year though due to the newness of it all.
When comparing 2009 to 2008 so far you have to remember you are comparing two totally different expectations of the teams.
2nd half of 2008 v 2nd half of 2009 is where the good comparison is.
I hope it picks up just for the fact that that place rocks out when it is packed
The energy and the noise was something I haven’t heard in another stadium.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Too bad the infrastructure can't hold that many people in the parking lots without catastrophe
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Go to Fergs fight for beers there and then go home in an hour, much easier
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't drink. I'm not a degenerate.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Organized religion is a fraud.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Unorganized religion is the shit?
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Except you have to pay money and be a pussy
BTW remember the first 2 rules jackass
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, I just hate people in general, and most vices.
I gamble like a motherfucker though. If I could live 5 minutes from Belmont Park, I’d be happy.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
So go get some wings and a pitcher
It beats losing your mind in traffic. And you’re a lawyer so don’t give me that doesn’t drink bullshit
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
An honest lawyer is about as easy to find as a unicorn.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Got hit by a drunk driver a few years back. I don't touch the stuff.
I just park down at Baywalk and walk back. But my father is a fatass. I took him to Ring Night, and got stuck in a traffic jam to the game. Took 50 minutes to get from the 275 offramp to the parking lot.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Consider my statement retracted
Traffic sucks everywhere, especially when a bunch of homersexuals get the chance to be handed a ring.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
For the record, I was mostly kidding about the degenerate part.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Only squares would find the term degenerate
offensive.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Says the tranny-lover.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It's like Buckwheat said
Ookin po nubbin in all da dong daces.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the best SNL bits he ever did.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad you got it
That skit makes me tear up from laughing so hard.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
And rush out by the 3rd inning so they can put it on EBay.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I liked how in the first inning of Dioner Navarro bobblehead night you could
find one on ebay for $25 with like 7 bids on it already, that is how you know that a fanbase is tarded.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I think they took the stock photo and put it up for bid, assuming they'd get one once they went to the game.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I so wish he would have gotten the Tyner treatment. That would have been awesome as fuck.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I wouldn't pay a wooden nickel for a Navarro bobblehead
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait for the Navarro action figure with 'DP Bat Swing' technology and a neck that doesn't move up or down
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
He has a neck?
You throw the letters DP promotion night and we might actually see a sell out
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
This idea is fantastic, if only it was sponsored by one of the fine Bay Area adult-entertainment establishments.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Kid friendly lapdances
Only the girl may touch, you touch the girl, you’re on your ass
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I was going to say this
But didnt want to go off topic. I have season tickets to the Rays and Bucs. I went to 7 Bucs games last year (driving from Orlando every Sunday) and have gone to at least that many for the last 5-7 years. I have been going to 25+ Rays games for the last 5 years and I will tell you that leaving a Rays game is 100000000000000 times easier than leaving a Bucs game.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Mostly because TPD Traffic cops aren't idiots.
In fact, that’s pretty much all they’re good for.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the question is they are only up
500/gm from last season’s final statistics
Final statistics are a different ballgame.
There is a huge difference between games in april/may/june and august/september.
But you have to be aware that they may not get the sell outs they did in AUG/SEP this year
if they continue to fall behind
FALL BEHIND?!?!?!?!?
HOW DENSE ARE YOU PEOPLE!?!?! WE ARE STILL IN TEH THICK OF THE PLAYOFF RACE!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE 2 GAMES BACK OF THE WILD CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, i'm hoping we win every game
but let’s be honest, the TB fans got caught up in a wave of baseball excitement never before seen
Here’s hoping that sistains itself again
Sky I figured I'd dig a bit deeper into your numbers as I think they are a bit misleading
I wanted to eliminate some variables:
1. Disney games
2. Yankee/RedSox/Cubs games
Our core average after 36
2009-22,703
2008-18,799
Our core average after the first 36 games at the Trop (taking out Disney)
2009-22,703
2008-20,609
Our average after taking out Prime games (28 total games for 2008, 27 for 2009)
2009-20,672
2008-19,050
Both seasons have most of their home games on the weekend so far so I didn’t bother to break ti down by day
18 weekday home games so far, 15 weekend home games
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
That takes out 3 from both columns
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
For both years?
I just saw the sample as being small so I didn’t average it. I deleted my spreadsheet so if you have it open then it’ll be nice to compare Monday-Thursday non-prime games and non-disney games between the years.
I'm only going by this year's, because I have a schedule next to my laptop.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I was looking at last year
Taking out the disney games also makes the sample pretty small to compare between the two years.
What did we average in AUG and Sep last year?
Do you think we’ll exceed that average this Aug/Sep?
My opinion is no
Even if we take the lead in the ALE we won’t match it.
I'm sure there were
I just don’t think you’ll have as many as the “new” fans that showed up to late season games last year show up to late season games this year. Mainly because they just did it last year and the economy.
I’m sure we will see a good uptick in attendance if we are in contention…just not as much as last year.
Remember we have nine games left v TOR, that attendance magnet they are
along with SEA and 6 more with BAL
The economy is not a long term indictment of the area
They would face that obstacle in almost any city.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
He wants you to rub his G-Spot.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
At your rate, you'll have to pay that up by the end of July.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Ok, I missed that you were referring to the attendance.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Our only three homestands in Sept were Yankees/Red Sox/Twins
So September is skewed.
In August, we topped 20K twice for weekday games. Given there’s only 5 weekday games in August this year, 2 against the Red Sox, it won’t provide a good comparison. But I’ll tell you what—if in the 2 games against Seattle and 4 against the O’s in September, the team can’t top 20K twice, and the team is in the hunt, then I’ll join in and say the team should move. Deal?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Although I don’t think 20k is good enough for a weekday game. That number needs to be closer to 25k. Yes it is unreasonable this year, but next year and in the long run it needs to be 25k
Tuesday June 23rd
RESULT ATT.
at LA Angels 4, Colorado 3 42,233
Minnesota 7, at Milwaukee 3 42,008
Boston 11, at Washington 3 41,517
at Atlanta 4, NY Yankees 0 40,828
St. Louis 3, at NY Mets 0 38,903
at Detroit 5, Chicago Cubs 4 38,046
San Francisco 4, at Oakland 1 32,854
at Toronto 7, Cincinnati 5 30,351
Kansas City 2, at Houston 1 30,049
San Diego 9, at Seattle 7 23,537
LA Dodgers 5, at Chicago Sox 2 22,251
at Arizona 8, Texas 2 21,379
Philadelphia 10, at Tampa Bay 1 19,608
Cleveland 5, at Pittsburgh 4 19,109
at Florida 7, Baltimore 6 10,222
Mean 30,193
Median 30,351
For one day during interleague play.
I honestly don’t know the answer, but if the team averages 20k on weekdays and 35k on weekends after this year I think they’d be fine with that.
With Yanks and Red Sox both on the road.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
This was my point.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
The Natinals aren't going to draw 40K on a "usual" Tuesday
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole series is sold out.
I turned down going to the game tonight because it would be infuriating.
Let's do this, let's compare attendance numbers on April 15 when it snows in all northern
home games and the Rays are playing the Yankees at the Trop
Actually, attendance that day was great compared to other teams.
Even if the game did start at 4 in the afternoon on a Wedensday
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Well then just go away.
If it pains you so much to be a fan then quit. It’s supposed to be an escape, not another way to bitch and moan about whatever inferiority you feel.
It doesn't matter what any of us think
it’s all up to Stu
When he says enough is enough—that’s it
Tuesday June 16th (Cubs data is missing so in reality it would be even higher)
RESULT ATT.
Chicago Sox at Chicago Cubs N/A
Toronto 8, at Philadelphia 3 44,958
at NY Yankees 5, Washington 3 44,873
at St. Louis 11, Detroit 2 44,021
at LA Dodgers 5, Oakland 4 41,169
at Boston 8, Florida 2 38,149
LA Angels 8, at San Francisco 1 34,716
Tampa Bay 12, at Colorado 4 28,582
at Kansas City 5, Arizona 0 26,974
at Minnesota 8, Pittsburgh 2 25,351
Milwaukee 7, at Cleveland 5 22,986
at Texas 6, Houston 1 21,676
NY Mets 6, at Baltimore 4 20,626
at Cincinnati 7, Atlanta 2 19,127
Seattle 5, at San Diego 0 17,040
Mean 30732
Median 27778
More Tuesdays
Tuesday June 9th
RESULT ATT.
at Boston 7, NY Yankees 0 37,883
at NY Mets 6, Philadelphia 5 37,152
at LA Dodgers 6, San Diego 4 35,313
Colorado 3, at Milwaukee 2 32,464
Chicago Cubs 7, at Houston 1 29,669
Detroit 7, at Chicago Sox 6 25,676
San Francisco 9, at Arizona 4 22,428
at Atlanta 4, Pittsburgh 3 20,124
Toronto 9, at Texas 0 17,535
at Baltimore 3, Seattle 1 17,358
Cincinnati 3, at Washington 2 16,274
LA Angels 4, at Tampa Bay 3 16,087
at Cleveland 8, Kansas City 4 15,038
at Florida 4, St. Louis 3 13,103
Minnesota 10, at Oakland 5 10,127
Mean 23,082
Median 20,124
Tuesday June 2nd
RESULT ATT.
at NY Yankees 12, Texas 3 43,948
at St. Louis 5, Cincinnati 2 35,507
at LA Dodgers 6, Arizona 5 32,853
at Atlanta 6, Chicago Cubs 5 30,262
at Toronto 6, LA Angels 4 26,809
at Minnesota 4, Cleveland 3 26,530
Boston 5, at Detroit 1 25,914
at Houston 3, Colorado 2 24,041
Oakland 5, at Chicago Sox 0 20,519
at Seattle 8, Baltimore 2 17,978
Philadelphia 10, at San Diego 5 17,625
at Washington 10, San Francisco 6 17,331
at Tampa Bay 6, Kansas City 2 13,604
at Florida 10, Milwaukee 3 10,831
at Pittsburgh 3, NY Mets 1 10,459
Mean 23,614
Median 24,041
4 week (all tuesdays) averages
mean 26,840
median 25,676
At the beginning of the year I thought if we could get anywhere
near an end of year average around 27K we would be doing fine. It appears that is still within reach even with all the excuses, copouts, and joblessness.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
The weekday non-interleague is closer to 20k
Still closer to 25k than 20k though…
And we drew 13k one of the games…. (june 3rd)
10,000 less than average…..
the other we drew 16k with the average as 23k
For a weekday game? Untrue.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Take a look at last night, i have not checked
PIT and FLA were home too
Pit v Cle - 19,109 -- Fla v. Bal - 10,222
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus I think its reasonable to compare the average from last season to the average so far this season
Expectations should be similar right now to what they were towards the end of last season so I don’t see why comparing the attendance marks is silly. I think comparing the beginning of last season to the beginning of this season is kind of misleading.
I can only imagine how band attendance will be if they team falls out of contention.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Because if you have a choice of a June game against the Royals or a September game against the Twins with a playoff berth on the line, you have a 50-50 split?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I see your point
But we were expecting a huge uptick in early season games and I just don’t think we’ve got it. IF we remain in contention you are correct attendance will increase, but if we fall out it will get worse.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It was silly to expect it. There's a multitude of factors, but the biggest of which...fans are broke and lazy.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But isn’t that a bad mark on the area?
I think we are actually agreeing. A few of us aren’t getting into the “why” the fans aren’t showing up whereas you are.
Well, you can complain, give up, and say the team should move...or you can explore the factors as to why.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I think location is more of a factor than laziness or money. But the question comes back to what can the team do? They can’t make people motivated or make the games any cheaper…
That is usually a chicken/egg type thing though
How can you win with no attendance and therefore no payroll?
In this case we got lucky and got the winning before the attendance. But it is unreasonable and impossible to expect them to sustain it with this attendance.
No it isn't.
The attendance will come. Patience is key. Holding your own in this economy is huge. Fortunately we can compete at this payrole at least one more year.
I think the point is at the start of last year the thought was that the Rays were going to stink
So its not comparing apples to apples. I agree end of last to beginning of this isn’t exactly great either.
I don’t think we can reasonably compare 2009 to 2008 expectations ( for home games) until around the LA Angels series…
This is the variable that will make or break the season attendance- contention
I think they Rays have a good enough team to at least be in contention. Ownership does too.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I wish that was the case
Contention won’t boost our 2nd half average to 34k a game…which is what we’d need to hit the pre-season goal
Being league average?
I agree. The mean is definitely a joke (big markets skew the data obviously). The median is a good long term goal for the franchise. I didn’t expect we’d get there this year, but I did expect a bit closer than what we are.
I don't imagine they throw a huge wrench in it
Considering new Yankees Stadium holds fewer people than the old one. Not sure about Citi Field.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT ATTENDANCE
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions
Would you prefer we talk about the debacle last night?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
WW (that's what I call Website Wednesday) rules.
Discuss…
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
WW is a good abbreviation for Website Wednesday.
When I type Website Wednesday my fingers often get tired because Website Wednesday is so long. Also Wednesday is the hardest day of the week to spell, so that doesn’t help at all when I am trying to type Website Wednesday.
Selgy
Oh, you mean actual baseball? No, lets ignore that.
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You call that baseball?
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You call that a surprise?
I mean we did see it happen last year.
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying. My 4 year-old niece runs around kicking a ball for a little while. I don't call it soccer.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, in that case it would be just as entertaining
(Note: this is an indictment of the boringness of soccer, not some creepy pedo statement)
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Why don't you have a seat?
/ChrisHansen’d
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
BUT... BUT... MY DISCLAIMER!!!!
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah because you're the chief architect behind building actual baseball analysis on this site.
I think you go more OT than any other poster. Not a criticism, but if you don’t want to read about it just don’t open the thread.
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Harf harf "if you don't like it don't read it"
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Karma, Baby. Karma
You got just what you asked for Matt Silverman. Messing with the Clearwater Threshers’ bobblehead promotions was one of the Rays dumbest moves of 2009. Keep opening your mouth and inserting your foot, you moron.
You know, you've managed to get away with 19 posts here, every single one being a troll just like this one.
And yet, you haven’t been banned. I’ll go ahead and fix that right now for you.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Oh, I thought this was a joke.
He was serious?
by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he trolled during the WS, then had like 2 legit comments in a PTB post before resorting to trolling, then did some more, then some more somewhere else.
I mean, enough’s enough already.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Stop making sense, this is an attenance thread.
You will be banned.
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
/posts R. Mapplethorpe images
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm part of the problem. i admit that. I'd rather watch a game from my living room than at the Trop...even if i had free tickets.
I know this is probably a bad place to bring this up
But the problem is mostly with the stadium and location of the Trop. It’s in the middle of ghetto south side St. Pete. Pinellas county alone can’t support a professional baseball team. We would draw so many more fans if the team moved to Tampa.
As I've said about a trillion times before, show proof of what you're saying.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
It was beaten to death by ConnorManning, whose best reasoning is that old people live in Pinellas and they can't go to games because they don't have adult diaper stands.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I agree with you for the most part, although it isn't the only area
The trop is in a dump in a bad area.
I’d be shocked if the team wouldn’t draw more fans if there was an retractable stadium in Channelside (or downtown tampa area)
I don't think the area is bad in terms of safety
In terms of things to do around the stadium it is pretty bad. Having more places to eat, drink, visit, etc increases the fun factor which would make more people willing to go to the games. Hell I don’t think I’d ever go to a Lightning game if it wasn’t in Channelside. And more people going = more fun = even more people going.
I know a lot of people don't like this argument, but it is a legitimate one.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
There used to be more, I believe.
All shut down because the area was a ghosttown. There is some decent stuff, but one problem with the area is the need for tons of parking around the stadium. If they could have less parking, there would be more stuff I imagine.
Yeah
You can’t put a stadium in the middle of nowhere and expect businesses to thrive. I think you put it in a place where businesses are already doing well. The stadium just boosts their profit.
True.
Like the Wharf in Baltimore. The stadium helped to rejuvinate the area. The issue is where in St. Pete? I would LOVE the waterfront stadium. I might even move back to FL for it. Probably the only way unless my parents give me there house when they retire.
Nevermind
Sort of misread your comment. That is why the waterfront would have been nice. There are about 25 bars/restaraunts within walking distance as opposed to just Fergs being close to the Trop
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be awesome
You’d have the crowd of people just going to the bars around the area. Then just people going to eat. Plus the baseball crowd. Then baseball crowd in all those places around after and before the game. There’d be tons of people and tons to do which would increase the fun factor by a large amount. All of which would make people want to go.
People are followers. They like to do what the “hip” thing is to do.
Like during the playoffs.
There was like a mini-village set up in the area. I think it could defs be like that in the future. It just sucks that our success came when the economy was tanking.
Things did sprout up a bit (mainly Fergs) around the end of the year
There just isn’t enough though for it to last. Put it in Channelside and you’d see 30K a night IMO. The bars already get packed but you’d see quite a bit more people and even more places springing up.
Hell just have Stu buy some of the land from Koules and Barrie. They need the cash. Or have Stu help finance part of the Bolts for the right to use the land. Have the city pitch in for some of the stadium, stu for some, and maybe the bolts too (depending on how they’d want to split up revenues in the area).
Tada. We’d all win.
I'm really biased for putting it in the Channelside area...
I think it would really work on all fronts.
It would be a bit tough on congestion
But otherwise I agree. The fact that Channelside is in a bottleneck hurts though, and there would be jams getting in and going out.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
This is exactly the sound reasoning they used
to shoot down the waterfront stadium. Ladies and gentleman, the senior citizens of St Pete!
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why the new stadium cannot be in St Pete
We’ve learned our lesson of putting a stadium in a crappy location. If the citizens aren’t willing to build in a good location then move to an area that will.
The Stadium is actually too far away from downtown St. Pete.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
You are fat if you can't walk 5 blocks
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was obvious I meant abandoned at 10 pm at night
Or hell at 7pm. How many restaurants/bars are open between Fergs and where the downtown St Pete bars start?
I'm just saying downtown St Pete is not linked to Rays games
They are two different “areas” or events.
Ybor says otherwise.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Every game I went to last home stand (I went to 4) I ended by walking to a bar in downtown St Pete.
When I go to games I park down by the Publix on 3rd.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
AREN'T YOU AFRAID OF ALL THOSE SCARY BLACKS AT 10 PM!?!?!?!?!
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I can walk 5 blocks, but I'd prefer to walk across the street.
But when I get there and that Bar is full, I’d like to walk a block down. One block down from Fergs in any direction is a parking lot. One block down from Andreychuks is a Hooters.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
5 blocks down from the Trop is the area's most vibrant downtown.
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Not since Dino's closed.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
But see, 2, 3, and 4 blocks down from the Trop is the area's most fragrant hobos.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Yes, there are certainly no hobos in Channelside
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I want to keep it in Pinellas. I've been saying Feathersound for quite a while now.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I work in that area
I’m all for it. That would be my 2nd choice behind Cside. I think Channelside is just set up better. Can put it on the water and it already has the infrastructure in place (tons of parking)
Yes you did dipshit
But when I get there and that Bar is full, I’d like to walk a block down. One block down from Fergs in any direction is a parking lot. One block down from Andreychuks is a Hooters.
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Cmon
If you cannot see the difference between going from Andreychuks, to The Hut, to Hooters, to Bennigans, to Banana Joes etc an the atmosphere between those places to walking the 5 or so blocks between Fergs and the Bishop then I dunno what to tell you.
Have you never been to other cities?
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
First of all, no need to call me a dipshit.
Secondly, I was just using that as a point of comparison, not as an example. So I’ll clarify it now: I don’t want to see them in Channelside. I think Feathersound is a good location. We already have 2 stadiums in Tampa and one is already in Channelside.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Because the entire reason why the Trop was built in St. Petersburg was to promote the Tampa Bay Area as a sports friendly community.
This is the problem, TAMPA is not a big city, no matter how much people in Tampa think it is. Tampa needs surrounding counties in order for it to draw the populous to community events. If Tampa was by itself, they’d see a consistent 45k at Bucs games and 10K at Lightning games. This is why I don’t like the city of Tampa, and never have. The area at large has this ridiculous sense of elitism and entitlement that they don’t at all deserve.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is too far
Say I get to the game today at 545. I walk by Fergs. Its packed. So now its 6. You suggest I walk 5 blocks stay for 20 minutes then 5 blocks back?
You were talking about after the game?!?!?!
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You have a problem with misusing punctuation
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Last year I went to Comerica Park during interleague play when the Tigers were playing the Cards. It was a weekday, sweltering hot outside, and the stadium was still packed. People go there because the stadium is beautiful and has a lot to do for kids and families (there’s a mini carnival just past the entrance). The Trop is a dump…..
Even excluding Orlando
It’s easier to get to Tampa from Pasco, Hernando, northern Hillsborough, Polk county, northern Pinellas, and southern Hillsborough than to St. Pete
For me it's selfish.
I feel like the team is St. Pete’s, and I think all the newcomers from Tampa SHOULD have to make the effort.
I'm the type that sees no difference between Tampa/St Pete
I don’t identify with either city. I identify with the area.
I have the same sentiments
But if they’re not willing to, what can you do? The best way to increase attendance is to accommodate the fans, not make the fans accommodate the stadium.
My only problem
Is that a lot of Tampa and people north of there complain about the drive. The bucs draw so many fans from St Pete and Sarasota and nobody says a thing. I think if Tampa gets the Lightning and Bucs, St Pete should get the Rays. That being said if it isnt drawing, there isnt much you can do besides go to an area that will.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Many people do not attend baseball games just for the game
This isn’t the NFL. Baseball games draw for different reasons. Atmosphere and the social and family setting is a big part of that. The current location and the stadium itself destroy both of those settings at the Trop. There needs to be more things to do before and after the game as well as making the actual game time experience more fun independent of the game itself.
I think that you can relate the Rays similar to the way you relate the Bulls when looking at attendance.
The Bulls are a competitive, but not great team. You’d think that, considering how cheap tickets are for the games, that the chance to see a potential top-25 team play on a week to week basis would be an outstanding draw.
But in fact, it comparatively isn’t. They get decent attendance numbers, and great for their confrence, but in a football area, in a 65,000 seat stadium, that place should have no problems selling out.
Instead, they end up selling around 35,000 seats per game and give away another 11k. Mainly because the casual fan doesn’t see a good reason to go watch them play backwater I-AA U, since the true USF crowd migrates back to north tampa after the game, where all the USF bars and restaurants are. And it’s the same with the Trop. If you’re only going to go to the game because it’s an event for you, then you want to have something more to do then to watch the Rays play Baltimore. A popluar opponent does enough to make the game by itself an event, such as UCF vs USF or a ranked team. Just the same with the Rays against an ALE rival or a team with national reach like the Cubs, Atlanta, and Cleveland to a lesser extent.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Excellent point
I’m a huge Rays fan and I try to go to as many games as I want. However on a Friday/Saturday I want to go out and do what normal 24 year old guys do. Having the Rays game, with little to no atmosphere, and just Fergs isn’t going to cut it. Sure that may be okay for me, but that isn’t going to persuade many of my friends who would rather go to far more happening places.
Bulls games would draw much better if they had an on campus stadium
Of course their campus is still a bit too spread out though.
You've mistaken not having a campus atomosphere with not having a campus.
There’s plenty of room, but the school has built out, not up. That’s the problem.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
The minus: An on-campus stadium would only have a capacity of about 45k
So it ends up being a wash.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Bright House field is going to collapse in on itself one of these days
Can’t wait
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And you lose the recruiting advantage...
of playing in an NFL stadium. That is cited often by Leavitt as a huge tool.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 24, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything in Tampa Bay is commuter.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm seriously looking into moving out of this hellhole.
The leaders for replacements are all cities with a centralized population and mass transit. Why? So I can get around without having to drive a half hour to get places.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I almost always do.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It is nice.
St. Pete is better about it IMO. I grew up in N. Tampa, and now my parents live in Downtown St. Pete. I defs enjoy visiting more, now.
Since when is downtown St Pete a bad area?
I think its a good spot that is only getting better (aside from the Baywalk fiasco). If the waterfront stadium had been approved we would have been fine. But old people in St Pete did not want it for some reason. Personally I wish we were drawing just a little better, enough to keep people happy, and we just played in the Trop for the next 5 years.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You are fat
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
The Stadium is actually too far away from downtown St. Pete.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Ya thats true.
The best part of downtown is between 1st ave S and 1st ave N and 1st street to about 5th street. Thats a hike
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Also its a parking issue
You want people to park all around and walk to the stadium. IMO baseball stadiums should not have football style parking lots. You want the people to have to walk past businesses and restaurants.
I think
that was the main problem with the waterfront. The only option was to build a massive parking garage/structure, or have people park way offsite and take a trolly. Neither was going to get the OK from most of the population.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
The population are idiots
That is the type of parking situation you want. You want city parking spread out around the stadium on the street and in a few garages.
FAT FAT FAT
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
FATTY FATTY FAT FAT
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
This thread was posted by Radio superstar Thomas "Tommy Rancel" Rancel
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, he is still this site's A #1 Powerbottom
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Finally you can afford some rays tickets
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I'm one of the few who willingly went to a Nationals game.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I went to all 3????????????????????
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You have an unhealthy obsession with Dukes.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he should be our RF
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He's killing it against AAA pitching
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Rays fans for the few of u that did show up last night, How did u like it when Philly lowlife's were rubbing it in ur face last night?
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
maybe the worst game experience of my life
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Did not feel as annoying as Yanks or Sox
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Good old Bucschat
Maddon is this area’s baseball version of Tony Dungy, his laid back philosophy does nothing to get the team ready to play a single game, it may bring better than average results over time, but don’t look for the team to be pumped up for anything other than a Hess wine tasting event. Starting with Longo and continuing with very poor hitting discipline as a team, they just did not appear ready to play a home game against the team that beat them in the World Series last year.
Rays Win!
.
it may bring better than average results over time, but don’t look for the team to be pumped up for anything
He’s right. I’d rather the team all jump around and shit than win games.
God I hate some of this area’s fans.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually I don't see what is wrong with the posters point
He essentially said Maddon is a slightly above average manager whos style may not be suited for the playoffs.
I certainly did not see him say he wanted a ‘rah rah’ type team at the expense of winning games.
He also says we have poor plate discipline.
Which is fucking retarded. We’re second in O-Swing%.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, because a manager who manages a team that goes from worst to first over the course of a year and gets the team to a World Series has no idea how to manage in the playoffs.
It’s a stupid point.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
He definitely had the wrong style to bring about his point
Although there is just nothing wrong with saying there are certainly downsides to Maddon’s managerial style and personality. Of course there are downsides to the Ozzie Guillen style too.
It's almost like manager personality means about as much as the color of the uniforms.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many people think they manage because they play Madden 2009 in sim mode and see their teams win 14 games a year.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
In isolation probably so. Although I think you'd be hard pressed to find a manager that didn't have his personality impact his strategy
I don’t think anyone has said yelling or being quiet has an impact on w’s and l’s.
Billy Martin = Best manager ever
It takes balls to fight your players
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention that the playoffs are an absolute crapshoot.
Perhaps Terry Francona should yell more. He has never won anything. Or Joe Torre.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If you compare across managers you need to eliminate talent as a variable. It makes no sense to say Francona and Torre are better simply because they won.
Jim Tracy is growing on me
He seems able to right a ship, but not necessarily get them over the hump. Maybe he could come in and replace Maddon and get us in playoffs.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the bottom line sports fans
Last night we played a home game v PHI a re-match of last yhear’s WS and 19600 fans showed up, third lowest in all of MLB, ahead pf only the Marlins and barely above that highly touted CLE-PIT game
This is a disgrace, and reprting or commenting on it doesn’t make me a hater, but a very concerned fan
We got you the first 15 times you said this
No real need for the synopsis.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
FTFY
If you aren’t part of the FINAL SOLUTION
you are part of the problem.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Just my guess
I apologize if this has already been said because I honestly have not been able to read all of the almost 500 posts.
I think that many of the FO attendance projections were made based on the huge upswing in interest displayed by local residents during the offseason. Much of the increase in interest was due to people who didn’t previously take an interest in the team doing so because they had finally put a winning product on the field. Unfortunately, many of these new fans formed somewhat unrealistic expectations of how the team would perform going forward. Those fans were ready to show up and root for their team at the beginning of the season because they expected them to be in first place all season. Basically, the Rays have not performed at a high enough level to hold the attention of these bandwagon fans. They have become disappointed and disenchanted because they are only using last season’s results as their frame of reference. Therefore, they are not attending games, and the increased attendance projections were based on these bandwagon fans attending.
4th place sucks
I only root for winners
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The Solution is to move them to Hillsborough County
You would see more average attendance of weekday games. Weekend games would still be even higher attendance.
Hillsborough County has the funds available to build a new ball park. The Community Investment Tax passed in 1996 to build Raymond James stadium and fund community projects is estimated to generate close to 30billion in revenue over its’ 30 year life span. Only roughly 18billion of that has been allocated to actual projects. If you move the team to the vacant area of land across the interstate from the Florida State Fairgrounds you are able to move it closer to the Central population of the Area and according to the maps that would also be in an area of densest population in the market, unlike where Tropicana Field sits now. It would also be near the Seminole Hard Rock Casino and Hotel as well as the Ford Amphitheatre. The Intersection of Interstate 4 and Interstate 75 less than a mile away would also make it easier to pull from outlying population centers in the market without traffic and commute problems.
When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976.
Are we a bandwagon city emphatic answer: YES but when an ownership group such that the Rays have now with the committment to putting a quality product on the field, comes along, Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa would fully embrace them.
My personal thoughts is Sternberg knows this and is really angling to move the team to Hillsborough County. That is why he proposed the controversial ballpark to hear public outcry from Pinellas County he wants the people of Pinellas County to fight him tooth and nail on a new ballpark until 2012. The penalty for dropping the lease of Tropicana Field beyond 2012 would be $35million vs. the current penalty of $70mil. As an owner if you can save $35mil and get a brand new park in the next county over and increase your revenue you would be crazy not to do it. I think this is the angle that Sternberg has been thinking since he bought controlling intrest in the team..
A-*FUCKING*-HEM
When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
That location is terrible.
I would off myself if they moved there. Like I’d become a Nats fan or whatever city I’m living in.
That's the problem with talking about stadium locations.
What sounds terrible to one person sounds great to another. I live in Valrico and work in Brandon. If they built the stadium at that location I might buy season tickets. As it is, it’s difficult for me to make it to more than a dozen games a year.
I have a family.
It’s a good area to raise a family, and at the time I bought my house it was more affordable than most parts of the Bay area.
With Hillsborough County
There is more disposable income to support a season ticket base too. Why else do you think that the Weekend games are better attended now?
Hillsborough County Residents are not going during the week. The weekend shows what a season ticket base in Hillsborough County would look like to the Rays.
And don’t give me the shit it is because of the concerts. I don’t think people really give two Rats’ asses about seeing Pat Bennatar or Kool N the Gang or any of the other acts they say is helping to drive ticket sales. Because if they were those acts would still be touring.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn't JUST that the Tampons are going to the games.
Most people prefer weekend games. No matter where they live.
Agreed
Florida State Fairgrounds is just as inaccessible to people living in Pinellas, northwest Hillsborough and west Pasco as St. Pete is to people living in Brandon.
If you’re going to move the stadium to Tampa, put it somewhere that it’s actually accessible to the people with disposable incomes. FSF is only accessible to people in New Tampa out of those areas. Put it somewhere that people from Carrolwood, Bayshore, etc. can get to it as well.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I personally think downtown Tampa would be the best location.
I just don’t know if there is anywhere down there to put it.
Plant Park
Across the river from the Performing Arts Center
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
So it's settled
Get Stu on the line and tell him we need 30 secs to change his life.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The city always came out strong for the Buccaneers.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The City came out strong for the Buccanneers
When they had an ownership group that put a decent product on the field. Had Hugh Culverhouse asked for a new stadium we would have told him to pound sand.
Bottom line is Hillsborough County is where the money is and the citizens would not even have to vote on a new stadium. All the Hillsborough County Commissioners would do is take a vote and allocate the funds and it would be built.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The city of Tampa without the surrounding community is smaller then Portland, and they're having trouble supporting a basketball team.
The City hasn’t done jack shit. The Tampa Bay Area supported the Bucs.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I don't think he is proposing that only Tampaites could go
I’m pretty sure it would be open to the public.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
...
When you all say that this area can not support baseball I think you are incorrect in your assessment. What you mean to say is that St. Petersburg and Pinellas County can not support baseball. Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa can support professional sports teams and have been doing so since 1976
You know, I could link to my “the city of Tampa are full of elitists” posting above all day long, but that’s just too much work.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Why are you guys so sensitive about that?
Most people read city of tampa and assume the author is talking about the metro area. I didn’t say I was from East Orlando when I lived there, I always said I was from Tampa or near Tampa when I live in NPR, and when I was growing up I always said I was from near Rochester, not the shitty town I was actually from.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that he is making it specifically clear that he's referring to Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa, not merely "Tampa" or "Tampa Bay"
The use of the words ‘we’ and ‘us’ also makes it pretty clear.
I’m used to the Tampa Bay area being called “Tampa”, it irks me, but whatever; if someone’s too lazy to lay out an extra syllable, no biggie. But Tampa resident elitism extends way beyond the world of sports.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
It's not Tampa's fault that St. Pete has such a crack addict problem
When I say Tampa in this instance I mean all of the surrounding areas.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
False
Hillsborough already said they wouldnt pay for the stadium. If the FO wants a new one it looks like they are going to have to fork over more than they want.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The taxpayers said they would not support a new tax for a new stadium
There is a difference. As any Hillsborough County resident if they would like the Rays to move to Hillsborough County without a new tax and you would get an overwhelming yes.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And how exactly would it get built?
I guess they could try something like what the Yankees, Mets and Nationals did (public bonds backed by PILOTS), but that would still mean that the team isn’t paying property taxes. And two of those three still needed to have some taxes to get the job done.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Commisioners would vote
To allocate some of the future revenue from the community investment tax that was passed by vote in 1996. Voila no new taxes and a brand new stadium. They have 18bil projected until 2027 that is currently unallocated from the CIT. that is BILLION with a B. I think they could take $500 mil from that and build a very up to date and state of the art ball park that would rival the best baseball parks in MLB right now.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No ballpark made in the past 7 or 8 years has cost less than $800 million
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Are you joking?
I remember in the early 90’s, the Bucs were almost completely supported by the other team’s fans buying tickets to games. Games against the Packers and Bears were like home games for the other team.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You couldn't watch a Bucs home game on TV until like '97.
I remember having to listen to them on the radio because my Dad hates football in person (NFL anyway).
And if you read my post Jack ass instead of just rattling off at the keyboard
You would have notice I said “when the Buccaneers got an ownership group that was committed to winning”
The Glazers bought the team in 1995. The stadium tax was approved in 1996 the same year they hired Dungy.
Read before you type and you wont look foolish when you sprout off truths that have nothing to do with what I said.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Just like You Ignore the Namoli Years
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You're the one that said Tampa supported a sports team since 1976.
by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Bucs from a financial standpoint
Even during the Culvehouse years have never been in the red financially in any season. So yes I would say they have been supported since 1976.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, so they have been supported? But then what is this?
When they had an ownership group that put a decent product on the field. Had Hugh Culverhouse asked for a new stadium we would have told him to pound sand.
by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
When you ask for something
The people that you are asking for it from should be satisfied with the product on the field. Hugh Culverhouse never showed a committment to putting a winning product on the field.
In spite of that Hugh Culverhouse was still able to make money on the team even with attendance being abysmal at best.
Now those same fans that weren’t showing up at the game would have been asked to pay a 1/2 cent sales tax would have voted No had Hugh Culverhouse asked for it because he had not shown a committment to putting a competetive product on the field.
It is kinda like helping those who help themselves. The residents felt they would see a return on their Investment and so far they have. A decade straight of sold out games I would say shows that they can be supported with the right committment to putting a quality product on the field. You know the same such ownership group committment the Rays have currently.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand why they wouldn't have voted to build a new stadium.
But you said the city of Tampa has supported the Bucs since 76, but yet they still wouldn’t have voted to build a new stadium. If they wouldn’t have voted to build a new stadium, then they didn’t support the team, at least not completely. Just because enough fans went to enough games for the owner to turn a profit doesn’t mean that a city is supporting the team.
by nolesblogger on Jun 24, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Then maybe our definitions
Are mixed up a profitable team with empty seats is still community support.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, comparing the two is retarded.
The NFL’s average attendance is higher in every city. Stupid people love the NFL, and they outnumber the rest of us. Throw in the fact that games are once a week (generally on weekends), and it shouldn’t be a shock if you think about it.
Speaking of the NFL.
Who was it that said I was an idiot and blah, blah, blah last year for saying the Bucs would be a middling team that misses the playoffs?
I understand it is a weak correlation
But …. if the Lightning can get a new arena built in the city of Tampa … Then there is absolutely no reason the Rays can’t.
If anything …. this is not a hockey area. Football and Baseball are the sports in this area that should be doing the best respectively.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true, but
I think part of the reason that stadium was able to be built was because it can be used for other things, such as concerts, arena football, and hosting NCAA tournament games.
With a new stadium
They would be able to Host some All-Star games here as well as possibly bidding on the SEC and or ACC baseball tournaments. Possible location for the Florida State League All-Star game too. It could also be built as a dual use facility as well.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not enough revenue in those other items to make it worth it, probably
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I was replying to RJ, not you
No need to call me a jackass. That was uncalled for.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
If the shoe fits your hoof you should try it on
jackass
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
RJ deleted his comment
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Um, no I didn't.
Nothing has been hidden/deleted all day.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
"Read before you type and you wont look foolish when you sprout off truths that have nothing to do with what I said."
And if you actually paid attention, you’d see my response wasn’t to you. I agree with what you said, for the most part.
Who’s the jackass now?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
My apologies
I will take the Jackass hat and wear it for myself for the rest of the day.
by PewterPirate55 on Jun 24, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You really suck at detecting sarcasm.
Jackass!
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 24, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
My detector is broken
My gaydar hasn’t been working for a while either, which is unfortunate. I thought I met a cool new group of friends, but it turned out they just wanted me to be a slave.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Well you replied to the right man
Johnny “powerbottom” Comeback can show you the ropes for a fee
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This sounds pretty logical
It would also be beneficial to us fans in Orlando who would come out to more games if it didn’t take forever to get there. If I left work at 5, I’m dealing with rush hour traffic all the way down I-4 and then have to deal with traffic through Tampa and St. Pete, so by the time I even get to the stadium the game’s already started.
I also want to say something about attendance in the state of the economy. This has been a common theme from some of the comments I’ve seen, and this might have been already said earlier (I dont have time to read 500 comments). Baseball, and professional sports in general, make most if not all of their money/profits from government subsidies. Yes, higher attendance is nice and helps a bit, but deviations in attendance are only a minor part of the revenue of a team, and should not solely cause ownership to consider moving a team. Considering the Rays have only had one good season so far, and bandwagon fans need more than that to go to more games, I’d say we’re doing pretty well. As others have said, let’s wait till postseason again to get more insight into attendance.
I will say though, a dome in Florida for a sport that takes place in summer is definitely the best way to go.
No offense.
The last concern of the ownership should be Orlando. They want people from Orlando to watch on TV, but to expect them to come to more than a few weekend games a year is silly. Orlando people can just make weekends out of the beach and catching some Rays.
That's true
But if ownership is concerned about attendance, they should make it easier for people nearby to get to the games. Seriously, Orlando is a huge market that’s just two hours away. Where else are there two relatively big markets that close to each other (exceptions: NY/Boston area, and some areas of California)? Some teams in other areas (someone mentioned Detroit earlier) get fans from hours away to come on a semi-regular basis.
Maybe there’s just more stuff to do in Florida during the summer
Yes, but...
It really is just a weekend thing, and you can’t expect huge jumps in attendance from it. It’s a concern, but it’s a minor one. The bigger concern is getting onto TV in those markets.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You are a jackass
Orlando is where it’s at. Big money. I’m talking large dollars, as well as a drinking problem that runs about 50,000 deep. If you build it, they will come, and spend much of their dollars to have a good time. Oh yes people will come Glass.
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not reading the entire thread, but I think I saw someone mention payroll cuts.
This seems more likely than anything else. The good news is, we have the best in the business at putting together a roster efficiently. The bad news is, you risk alienating some fans by replacing fan favorites with youth/equally talented free talent without the name.
who are we going to replace?
C.C and Aki are like 90% likely to go within or after this year. Pena might be gone and our other fan favorites include longo, and B.J (I’m seriously doubting this)
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
You know Virginia
could always use a sports team, we are bored and have nothing to do.
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
I live like
20 minutes away from richmond
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
Actually, it's a horrible stadium
Which is part of why they left.
Tidewater/Richmond couldn’t support an MLB team if it wanted to. NFL, sure, but I think it would even struggle to support a NBA team. Just not enough people there, and not enough big business either.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
No, it's not.
I just have no sense of humor.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
People in Richmond can support MLB
if they can be a contender in 5 years, which you know is not going to happen. Washington Redskins and Baltimore Ravens have too much hold of the NFL here. NBA is a maybe.
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
Dude
This is Richmond, almost anything is better than watching the nats and O’s (although {im going to lose my soul and dignity saying this} i think they are going to be a contender soon.
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
The greater Richmond area only has about 1.2 million people
Tidewater has about 1.9 million people. Even if you combine the two, it’s still smaller than the Tampa Bay area, and it’s still well over an hour drive to get from one to the other.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Ehh, It's Ok
5% tax is not half bad.
We need Robots....The time is now Bud, Stern, and Goodell.
Seriously, Officiating Sucks in this Country
I wonder what Edwin thinks about our attendance
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Pat Burrell sucks because of it.
Also, BJ really is lazy, but we don’t know it because nobody ever goes to the games.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Besides simple demographics, why the team won't move:
Nevermind that none of these areas match the population of Tampa-St. Pete metro, here are some other major obstacles for anyone concerned about the future location of the team (completely unwarranted IMO unless all avenues for a new stadium are totally exhausted, as was the case in Montreal).
Portland and Charlotte can’t even agree on financing for new AAA parks (Charlotte currently plays across the border in South Carolina; Portland wants to convert the current AAA stadium to MLS soccer only)
Las Vegas is in a world if economic hurt and MLB probably wouldn’t touch the area even in good times.
San Antonio currently has a subpar AA stadium and is next to last in Texas League attendance despite having double/triple the size of other league markets.
The worst case isn’t that the team would move (because the likelihood is so small), it is that the current owner(s) would cash out and hand over controlling interest to a bumbling idiot.
You people are all fucking retarded
Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs








![Zobrist wallpaper I made :]
Actual Link: http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb472/lewiedesigns/Wallpapers/Zobristwallpaper.jpg](http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/237766/Zobristwallpaper_small.jpg)















