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Matt Silverman On Attendance

"Based on all the information we had, we projected full houses. It's a huge miss, and it’s bewildering to us."

Ouch

4 months ago Raysring1_tiny Tommy Rancel 566 comments 0 recs  | 

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A real shame

thousands flood a perenial 500 team like the Bucs, yet won’t watch a good baseball team playing in the best division

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As a fan i'm frightened we will lose this team

and someday watch this ownership group thrive where they appreciate baseball

by Raymondo on Jun 23, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Appreciate 10 seasons of shitty baseball

and 1 and a half seasons of good baseball? I think its going to take a little longer than this and the fact that Silverman said this is really surprising to me. It just seems like he is freakin out because of one midweek series. Doesnt change the fact how much attendance is up this year no matter the consistency or which games make the number look better. The fact is the fan base grew immensely in 1 season and I believe it will continue to grow.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I dunno maybe Im just trying to look at the glass half full. I know merchandise has to be way up, and it has seemed like our attendance has been better, but numbers dont lie. Its just really frustrating as a fan and I cant imagine it from a management standpoint

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you getting that info from B-R?

our attendance guy here had us at 25k per game in his last update…which was a while ago, i suppose.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm usually one to put things in context, but I can't tonight.

Fuck everything. Move the team to San Juan. It’ll give me an excuse to get out of the country for a bit every summer.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 23, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Move the team to Tampa and I will go even more

I already have weekend season tickets, it’s just a pain to go to weekday games when I have to drive 30 min from South Tampa to USF in the morning. I just don’t feel like driving another 30 min the other way right after I get home to go to a game. That bridge just isn’t inviting while my car is breaking down.

by Albertrayon on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also, beer is almost $10 now which isn't cool.

There’s only so many I can chug in the parking lot before the game. And bring back $1 dog night. I want Staats to make fun of me while I try to eat 5 hot dogs in one half inning.

by Albertrayon on Jun 23, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heater...
Joe started this by showing everyone that he doesn’t care about winning…..BJ batting lead-off, sticking with Fatty Navarro and struggling Sonnanstine……..The Yankees sat A Roid, and the Sox did Ortiz…..yet Joe is afraid to sit Navarro? Please………give me a real manager who tries to win games and not worry about egos and the attendance will go up.

by usfraysfan on Jun 23, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Uneducated and bandwagon fans pay as much for tickets as everyone else

This is one instance where what people think on the Heater is actually relevant.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So if he sat Navi

We would have sold out tonight? THE TIME IS NOW

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't look good

Honestly I think the answer is what we are all scared of…This area just cannot support baseball.

I wish it is just a stadium and location issue. The problem with that is we may never know if that is the case.

by matthan on Jun 23, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Unless the team moves to Tampa, I suspect the area will lose them.

I got bashed for saying it last year. Everyone told me to wait til this year when attendance would pick up.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Portland

All we need is another team stuck in the Northwest

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jun 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Portland doesn't have the population or corporate base to support a major league baseball team

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the area can support baseball

the problem is there is to much baseball. There are so many minor league teams in the area with dollar beer nights and outdoor stadiums that are a lot of times closer to home. That’s tough. Also all of the little leaguers are playing all-stars right now so those famililes can’t make it to a Rays game.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be the case...

I’m sure there are valid reasons why fans aren’t showing up. The fact is that they aren’t showing up. The bottom line is what matters. The fans are falling way short and the team should move.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right.

If we love this team we need to try harder. I’ve only been to a couple of games this year myself so I can’t blame other people.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't your fault

The problem isn’t with the fans that actually go to the games. The Rays actually have a good solid core of fans. They just make up all of the attendance all of the time. As in we don’t have enough fans that go once or twice. We have plenty of fans that go 4 or 5 times a season (or more).

In other words our fan base has passion, but is just not broad enough.

This is why I think promotions won’t really help. All it will do is make a fan that goes 5+ times a year pick game X over game Y. It won’t bring out a fan that rarely or never goes to the game.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Either Silverman is bluffing, or he's not nearly as smart as we give him credit for.

No less than a dozen people on this site in every thread on this topic says the same thing. No one goes to weekday games.

That’s the sole reason I go to weekday games. There’s no beer-swilling, peanut-downing fatass next to me making me listen as he bitches to his wife about everything under the sun.

Weekday games are going to draw 10-20K unless there’s a special circumstance (See: Cubs, Chicago). Especially not if you increase the ticket price 60% for the weekday game. If Silverman can’t see that, he’s either blind or a fool.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

this

it sucks that we can’t sell out weekday games, but this shouldn’t have surprised the FO in any way.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think the attendance on this actual game suprised him. I think what is surprising Stu and the crew is that this area just doesn’t support baseball. Ownership has done every possible thing to boost attendance. The fans aren’t delivering.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How much of that is from half of the area being unemployed?

Well maybe not half, but this is Florida as a whole:

Not good, notice how it is increasing over historic averages before the “recession” was even in full bloom. Florida is F’ed in the A, get out while you can. Move the Rays to Rochester, NY. Another 61,000 people were fired last month, the cost of living is crazy, and most people are so far in debt they can’t afford to go to a game, let alone 5. 417,000 people lost their job from May 08 to May 09.

Breakdown by regional counties
Hernando – 12.7% unemployment
Hillsborough – 10.7
Pasco – 11.7
Pinellas – 10.4

LINK

These are just the people that are “unemployed” with all the traditional caveats within their tracking. How many other people are nervous that they will be next?

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weird...

It’s almost like we are in a major recession and people can’t afford luxury items.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think we have a bit of a different interpretation of Silverman's words

I don’t think he was shocked that the fans didn’t show up. I think he has known this was going to be the case for awhile. I think his quote is more about saying that if the fans can’t show up to this series than they never will. He is just pointing out that it is unacceptable.

Also many of us realize that this type of crowd will the norm (in fact a little high) for weekday games. However that is unacceptable. If we are only going to draw 15k for weekday games then the team should move.

If that is the max the fanbase can muster, even though at this point it is predictable, then this team should move out of the area.

I wish it would move to Tampa, but I don’t see why ownership would take that chance. They should move to an area that doesn’t have, at that time, almost a couple decades of no support.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without doing research I can't say for sure

Charlotte would be my prime candidate though.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well they'd build a stadium

I’m not sure how the NFL stadium would be for say a year of baseball.

Obviously there would be a lot of t’s to cross and a lot of i’s to dot. However if the research and evidence shows Tampa Bay cannot support the team then they should move them. If it means sitting in front of crowds in St Pete of 500 fans for a year or two after the announcement then so be it.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

You think in this economy where the banking industry has been killed, the capital of the banking industry is going to build a new stadium? You think they’ll take a chance on moving to a football stadium in a city with no history of baseball success without a state-built stadium? Not going to happen.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant moving to the NFL stadium for a year as the stadium was being constructed.

And while the banking industry took a hit the demographics are far better for baseball in a city such as Charlotte. You can’t build a fan base on the snowbird elderly.

Baseball needs middle class working adults. Tampa solely lacks that in comparison to other cities.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BofA got hit

but isn’t going under. I don’t seem this as a long term problem for Charlotte.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Going forward I'd expect the banks to purchase less suites and what not

But the general workforce makes enough money and is plentiful enough to be a good foundation for a baseball franchise.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Panthers fans are notoriously fair-weather minded

So what would make that area different from this one?

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it wouldn't be

But this area isn’t getting it done. I’d rather take a chance on an area that probably will fail, but might work out than an area that will at that time have 2 decades of failure.

It isn’t that any other area is guaranteed to be better than ours. It is a matter of our area getting a shot and failing.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Won't happen in CLT

I live in Charlotte. There is talk of losing our basketball team (and people here care more about basketball than baseball). The city funded that stadium and it has been a train wreck, no way they build another. We are having problems building a new minor league stadium for that matter.

The point is, there is NO city that makes sense to move a baseball team now. That in combination with the massive state and municipal budget shortfalls, no city will be able to fund a new stadium.

by Mulva on Jun 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

Lived in NC for 5 years, and have lots of friends there. No way the team moves to NC. They just care only about college hoops.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true

lived there myself for a year and that area would be way worse than this one. What they talked about was putting the stadium in the middle of nowhere equidistant to Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Greensboro and I can promise you they would draw less than we do.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Charlotte's in worse shape than Tampa

And it’s not like they have a massive population base either.

A couple years ago (before the recession), I saw a study (I think by Fortune Magazine) which basically said that the only two markets that could support a MLB franchise that don’t already have one are Northern New Jersey and San Fernando Valley, but I’m sure the Yankees and the Angels would kick and scream like hell if someone tried to move a team to either of those places.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd die to know how many of you actually went to that game.

I did. I work full time and I live in fucking Lutz. I feel great this morning.

Did you go? Or just bitch in the GDT? Do you live here? Do you see all the Rays gear around the area?

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't go last night

I’m going tonight. I average around 30 games per year.

Gear is nice, but the attendance is just not there. I’m just stating the obvious. It is unacceptable. My personal feeling is the Rays should stay here if they only average 1 fan a game…me. But if I take my bias out of it then I’m starting to see that this area just cannot support the team.

Also regarding gear…I wonder how much of that is because of the newness of the logo etc.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What difference does the logo make?

They’re supporting the team. That team store is packed every game.

I’d really like to know where to find FSN/Sun Sports’ ratings breakdown this year. I have a hunch that they’re pretty good.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When a new logo/name comes out there is always a huge uptick in sales. For example I bought a couple jerseys and a couple hats last year. This year not so much (since I already have it).

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But they aren't just going to do it because its THERE

They’re going to do it because they care about the team. It’s not like merch is cheap.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 24, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Their promotions department sucks. Although honestly I doubt how many people would go. It is so cheap alraedy. And if they did dollar hot dogs or beers then would they really make more money? Would more fans really go?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How old are the Indians?

How many years of success have they had?

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop looking at me as the 'enemy'

I’m simply suggesting an idea that’s worked

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dbacks and Rockies are outdrawing us

how many years of success have they had? Its stupid to imply the team doesn’t draw dick because they are new

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those two teams also do not play the Yankees and Red Sox. The # of their fans showing up to the stadium is significantly more than what we have.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The good news, bad news is

we got a team because we had a venue, that’s the good news

The bad news is it’s in DT St Pete

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

The location and the stadium itself is in the dumps.

Btw hasn’t Colorado and Arizona outdrawn us every year?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

The citizens built them. Ours won’t. That is a mark against the area.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They shouldn't.

I’d rather the area lose the team than see the beleagured area strapped with a tax burden for a luxury item.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Precisely

He isn’t dumb. This is smoke and mirrors. Remember when the Bucs were going to move? The Giants? Etc? They want a new stadium which will boost revenue. They can then put a better product on the field consistantly. they won’t move unless it’s across the bay, which I doubt.

The economy is in the shitter right now, and I imagine attendance is down across the league. If they honestly didn’t expect this then I lose a lot of faith in the FO. I was calling it in every attendance thread before the year. What is unemployment in the Bay Area right now? What is the market doing? How are prices going for those on fixed incomes? Luxury goods take a hit during recessions, and that’s what baseball games are. The more important thing, I think, is TV ratings because they are a real barometer of how the area feels about the team.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree about prices

$20 for the cheapest ticket in a terrible economy isn’t the best way to go for any weeknight games, no matter who we are playing. The average family of 4 (pretty reasonable guess to how most of our fans our coming to games) would only be paying around $50 for a game after fees at ticket prices last year but ended up paying $85 last night, huge difference in these times, especially with recently rising gas prices. That’s why you saw so many douche-bag Phillies fans like the ones that sat all around me last night since they only have to buy three tickets a year in Tampa. The average Rays can’t afford to go to every game of a series like this with other big games on the horizon at the current prices.

by WASHANDLEERAYSFAN on Jun 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK Chicken Littles....

Where are they moving? Do some research and provide a market that you think would be better than the current one.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If the Rays pay me I'd gladly do it

You can’t seriously ask someone on a blog to do work that is worth thousands of dollars?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Asking posters to do something that would take hundreds of hours is by far the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this blog

You’ve taken the prize for dumbest comment. The chances that someone has the resources and the expertise to do such research on this blog is close to nil. In such a case that person exists what are the odds that he will do it for free just to appease Mr. rglass? 1,000,000 to 1?

We all know what you were trying to do with your comment. I just figured I’d call your lame attempt out. Have a good day.

You know what? Why don’t you do the research that shows that baseball can work in Tampa Bay going forward?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want you to do that.

I wasn’t asking for that you moron. I know you couldn’t pull it off. I said “do some research.” Population, current stadium possibilities, etc. That takes 15 minutes of wiki. There is nowhere, though, so it won’t do you much good.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...New York.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is, in terms of size, both of those markets are legitimately more appealing then this one.

Obviously Montreal doesn’t have a team, and NYMetro is big enough to support a 3rd.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Listeners?

Ma Francais es tres mal apres tout c’est annees.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was "Surrenderers"

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I think your right.

I’ll just use Google instead.

The team should be called, ‘Les cessions’.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Les Fags des Montreal

Or you know The Habs

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We know how bad the ownership is

Oren Koules needs to go back to making shitty movies for sick fuck retards. Should have left Torts alone and brought in Scotty Bowman to GM.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My french is next to nonexistant though

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is nowhere

Someone already did the work.

http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/36.html

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one in the front office has ever hinted about moving..

I don’t think that’s what it is about. No other available area is extremely attractive. The Rays are here no matter what.

The Rays need to figure out what motivates people to go to games. That’s the issue. A lot of us in this area did not grow up going to live baseball games and are content just staying home and watching on TV. I go to about twenty games a year and am not sure what would motivate me to attend more.

by tallyray on Jun 24, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

20 is more than enough

It is more about getting the vast majority of the area that goes to 0 games to go to 1 game.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A new stadium would go a long way toward that

My family is from Tigers country and their attendance was terrible until they built a new very cool stadium and fielded a team that made it to the world series. The Rays have that team they just need a great place to go watch them. People in Detroit don’t have any money either, but many of them are going to games because it’s a great place to watch baseball.

by Her Rays on Jun 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Detroit also draws from all over Michigan, do you think any of the hood rats from the ghost towns are going to a game?

Not trying to sound like a dick, just pointing to the fact that the stadium is accessible to many parts of the state, it doesn’t cater to 2 counties. Bring Orlando within a reasonable distance.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm just saying

maybe they should have the Robo-Los action figure and Aki Rattle Drum giveaways during ther week

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there is much a major relocation

More likely a slash in payroll

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 9:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That is certainly going to happen

Relocation would be on the long-term horizon. If attendance doesn’t pick up then you’ll see a slash in payroll next year and the year. They’ll ask for a stadium and if they don’t get it then they’ll have to slash payroll some more. Then they’ll start looking elsewhere. Relocation won’t become an option for about 5 years and I doubt they’d find a city for 8 or so years. Those guesses may even be a bit short.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you are right about waiting until next year

b/c I am confident attendance will pick up in late August/September if the Rays are in contention. Even if they aren’t you will have some snow bird migration.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great

That will lead to even less attendance so the team will have legitimate reasons to move.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what happens

If the fans don’t show up the team cannot sustain payroll. They cut payroll and the team gets worse and less fans show up. It is a viscious cycle.

The team got great on a low payroll and the fans did not show up.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m suggesting an idea that’s worked, that’s all

PS—I’m not a Tribe fan

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Its the ticket prices...

at least in part. Weekday games should not be “prime” games unless we are playing the Red Sox, the Yankees, or the Cubs. We have never had good attendance on Tuesdays and jacking up the price is not going to help. That said, I was there last night and I did not think the crowd was that bad. There seemed to be more fans than a typical weekday game. It was just that the first inning took the wind out of our sails and the Rays didn’t do anything to get the fans back into it.

by Devil Ray on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Attendance is down, through this point last year, at 20 out of 30 ballparks.

On average, MLB attendance is down 1500 fans per game. Now, the new NY parks throw a monkey wrench in the numbers, but still.

The Rays are up 4200 fans per game. That’s second best in the majors behind the KCR. If you were expecting full houses, sure, you should be disappointed right now. But you never should have expected full houses.

Rays attendance is up significantly. As they remain in the pennant race and divisional race, it should continue to go up.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here you are, Jackass.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2009-schedule-scores.shtml

Notice the games Grienke and Meche started get 20s-30s. The ones they don’t, attendance is in the teens.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, so now it's Greinke AND Meche

dude, all i’m saying is your nitpicking stats, like so many here do

Royals attendance is up—who cares wgy?

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not nitpicking. Meche had two games he played with high attendance.

I’d rather include him than have you get high and mighty about two games.

How do you ask “Who cares why?” The whole point of this conversation is discovering why this team’s attendance isn’t skyrocketing (which it never will). I point to KC because they’re the only team that has improved more than Tampa Bay.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

makes sense

I used to only go to games Kaz pitched from ‘05-’07, no sense in watching Damon Hollins bat if we’re down 5 runs cause of Fossum etc…

Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make sure to take day of the week into account.

I could see some pitchers getting “lucky” or “unlucky” with which days they’ve pitched home games over half a season.

KC has a “new” stadium this year, too, with only moderate price increases.

Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone on the KC site broke this down..

KC attendance went up with giveaways/promotions, not due to Greinke.

by RATW on Jun 24, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A voice of reason...

Thanks Sky, but the chicken littles in these parts will still bitch and moan about what we all knew was coming.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why don't you do some research?

Before any of these numbers have any real meaning you need to at least post the proportion of Yankee/RS home games so far this year compared to last year? What about days of the week?

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

I have work to do, and I am not the one crying. I think we’ll see a nice increase compared to other teams by the end of the year.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow talk about being a hypocrite

Whatever floats your boat though

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I have put a up 100 fanposts with research. I don’t have time, and idiots just ignore anything rational. So I generally don’t do it anymore.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you've done previous work

I’m just saying you can’t expect someone else to do research on an issue when you aren’t going to do it yourself.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have done it.

I KNOW why it won’t work. I know why they won’t move. Me telling you things that I’ve read does little good. Doing a little (which is what I was looking for) might change your mind. I may try to do something later, but I’m already wasting enough time considering I have a huge deadlkine to meet Friday.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go work

I never said they will move. I just said that baseball isn’t and hasn’t worked in this area so they should try something new. If they can’t then we will just go back to an irrelevant franchise drawing the smallest crowds in the league competiting for the #1 pick.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let;s not worry about attendance at all!!

There is now way this team will ever have the balls to move! I dare them to do it. Every other market sucks too.

First, predicting a baseball market is difficult. Everyone thought the area would do better than it has. Second, do you really think the team is saying this stuff to try to drum up more attendance? Personally, I don’t. So what if they move and fail in a new marker, either way we’ve lost them. How often does the FO say things and not follow through with them?? Sternberg has said the Trop is not sustainable for his business. So either the team ends up with a new stadium or we lost them.

You want some markers:
Vancouver, Indy, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Charlotte-Raleigh-Durham, NY, Virginia, OKC, Columbus.

all you will do is make blab some anecdotal evidence about how those markets all suck so I don’t really see the point in this exercise.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Vegas or TX

The rest there is no way in hell. Vancouver is in Canada. That worked well.

Indy I would highly doubt. the MW is shot economically, and it’s a basketball state.

CLT and the triangle are 4 hours apart. Neither could support a pro team.

Where in Virginia?

OKC? HA

Columbus? No way.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Austin might work as well as San Antonio

Toronto has worked out ok, Montreal was a joke. I think Vancouver would be closer to Toronto than Montreal.

Vegas depends on the housing market bouncing back. They’ve been crushed by sub-primes.

I’ll have to do more research on Virginia, but U believe eastern virginia could support a team. Lots of people close together.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like the tidewater area?

I seriously doubt it. That’s just going from my knowledge of Coastal Virginia as a locale more than anything. It’s fairly poor and not anymore centrally located than Tampa/St. Pete.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto area is as big as Chicago

Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto is about the size of Chicago

Of course Toronto worked out. But unless they want to venture into Mexico, there isn’t an available market that’s even close to being that big.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really think

that they would bring new teams to NY or Ohio to compete with teams with established fanbases?

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think NYC

Could support a third team. Maybe not Columbus.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could.

They wouldn’t allow it, though, and I doubt the team would take root at all.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

if we already have good relative #s it surely will spike during a wildcard chase.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As it did last year

It won’t increase as much as last year though due to the newness of it all.

When comparing 2009 to 2008 so far you have to remember you are comparing two totally different expectations of the teams.

2nd half of 2008 v 2nd half of 2009 is where the good comparison is.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope it picks up just for the fact that that place rocks out when it is packed

The energy and the noise was something I haven’t heard in another stadium.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or go to s clubs?

What are you? Baptist?

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scientologist?

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, I just hate people in general, and most vices.

I gamble like a motherfucker though. If I could live 5 minutes from Belmont Park, I’d be happy.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So go get some wings and a pitcher

It beats losing your mind in traffic. And you’re a lawyer so don’t give me that doesn’t drink bullshit

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got hit by a drunk driver a few years back. I don't touch the stuff.

I just park down at Baywalk and walk back. But my father is a fatass. I took him to Ring Night, and got stuck in a traffic jam to the game. Took 50 minutes to get from the 275 offramp to the parking lot.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Consider my statement retracted

Traffic sucks everywhere, especially when a bunch of homersexuals get the chance to be handed a ring.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked how in the first inning of Dioner Navarro bobblehead night you could

find one on ebay for $25 with like 7 bids on it already, that is how you know that a fanbase is tarded.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to say this

But didnt want to go off topic. I have season tickets to the Rays and Bucs. I went to 7 Bucs games last year (driving from Orlando every Sunday) and have gone to at least that many for the last 5-7 years. I have been going to 25+ Rays games for the last 5 years and I will tell you that leaving a Rays game is 100000000000000 times easier than leaving a Bucs game.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 24, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly because TPD Traffic cops aren't idiots.

In fact, that’s pretty much all they’re good for.

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the question is they are only up

500/gm from last season’s final statistics

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Final statistics are a different ballgame.

There is a huge difference between games in april/may/june and august/september.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FALL BEHIND?!?!?!?!?

HOW DENSE ARE YOU PEOPLE!?!?! WE ARE STILL IN TEH THICK OF THE PLAYOFF RACE!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE 2 GAMES BACK OF THE WILD CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, i'm hoping we win every game

but let’s be honest, the TB fans got caught up in a wave of baseball excitement never before seen

Here’s hoping that sistains itself again

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOGIC

KILL IT

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sky I figured I'd dig a bit deeper into your numbers as I think they are a bit misleading

I wanted to eliminate some variables:

1. Disney games
2. Yankee/RedSox/Cubs games

Our core average after 36
2009-22,703
2008-18,799

Our core average after the first 36 games at the Trop (taking out Disney)
2009-22,703
2008-20,609

Our average after taking out Prime games (28 total games for 2008, 27 for 2009)
2009-20,672
2008-19,050

Both seasons have most of their home games on the weekend so far so I didn’t bother to break ti down by day

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For both years?

I just saw the sample as being small so I didn’t average it. I deleted my spreadsheet so if you have it open then it’ll be nice to compare Monday-Thursday non-prime games and non-disney games between the years.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was looking at last year

Taking out the disney games also makes the sample pretty small to compare between the two years.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What did we average in AUG and Sep last year?

Do you think we’ll exceed that average this Aug/Sep?

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows.

I doubt we’ll be far off because I bet there were a lot of preorders for those games.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion is no

Even if we take the lead in the ALE we won’t match it.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last year it was all walk-ups.

I know for a fact there were more advance tickets sold.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure there were

I just don’t think you’ll have as many as the “new” fans that showed up to late season games last year show up to late season games this year. Mainly because they just did it last year and the economy.

I’m sure we will see a good uptick in attendance if we are in contention…just not as much as last year.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The economy is not a long term indictment of the area

They would face that obstacle in almost any city.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our only three homestands in Sept were Yankees/Red Sox/Twins

So September is skewed.

In August, we topped 20K twice for weekday games. Given there’s only 5 weekday games in August this year, 2 against the Red Sox, it won’t provide a good comparison. But I’ll tell you what—if in the 2 games against Seattle and 4 against the O’s in September, the team can’t top 20K twice, and the team is in the hunt, then I’ll join in and say the team should move. Deal?

RD over and out.

by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

Although I don’t think 20k is good enough for a weekday game. That number needs to be closer to 25k. Yes it is unreasonable this year, but next year and in the long run it needs to be 25k

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tuesday June 23rd

RESULT ATT.
at LA Angels 4, Colorado 3 42,233
Minnesota 7, at Milwaukee 3 42,008
Boston 11, at Washington 3 41,517
at Atlanta 4, NY Yankees 0 40,828
St. Louis 3, at NY Mets 0 38,903
at Detroit 5, Chicago Cubs 4 38,046
San Francisco 4, at Oakland 1 32,854
at Toronto 7, Cincinnati 5 30,351
Kansas City 2, at Houston 1 30,049
San Diego 9, at Seattle 7 23,537
LA Dodgers 5, at Chicago Sox 2 22,251
at Arizona 8, Texas 2 21,379
Philadelphia 10, at Tampa Bay 1 19,608
Cleveland 5, at Pittsburgh 4 19,109
at Florida 7, Baltimore 6 10,222

Mean 30,193
Median 30,351

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For one day during interleague play.

I honestly don’t know the answer, but if the team averages 20k on weekdays and 35k on weekends after this year I think they’d be fine with that.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think the weekday number is a tad low, but I think as long as they get somewhere in the 27-29k range they’ll be happy (average all games)

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then just go away.

If it pains you so much to be a fan then quit. It’s supposed to be an escape, not another way to bitch and moan about whatever inferiority you feel.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't matter what any of us think

it’s all up to Stu

When he says enough is enough—that’s it

by Raymondo on Jun 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much is season ticket sales.

Those need to increase to get the weekday games higher.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tuesday June 16th (Cubs data is missing so in reality it would be even higher)

RESULT ATT.
Chicago Sox at Chicago Cubs N/A
Toronto 8, at Philadelphia 3 44,958
at NY Yankees 5, Washington 3 44,873
at St. Louis 11, Detroit 2 44,021
at LA Dodgers 5, Oakland 4 41,169
at Boston 8, Florida 2 38,149
LA Angels 8, at San Francisco 1 34,716
Tampa Bay 12, at Colorado 4 28,582
at Kansas City 5, Arizona 0 26,974
at Minnesota 8, Pittsburgh 2 25,351
Milwaukee 7, at Cleveland 5 22,986
at Texas 6, Houston 1 21,676
NY Mets 6, at Baltimore 4 20,626
at Cincinnati 7, Atlanta 2 19,127
Seattle 5, at San Diego 0 17,040

Mean 30732
Median 27778

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Tuesdays

Tuesday June 9th
RESULT ATT.
at Boston 7, NY Yankees 0 37,883
at NY Mets 6, Philadelphia 5 37,152
at LA Dodgers 6, San Diego 4 35,313
Colorado 3, at Milwaukee 2 32,464
Chicago Cubs 7, at Houston 1 29,669
Detroit 7, at Chicago Sox 6 25,676
San Francisco 9, at Arizona 4 22,428
at Atlanta 4, Pittsburgh 3 20,124
Toronto 9, at Texas 0 17,535
at Baltimore 3, Seattle 1 17,358
Cincinnati 3, at Washington 2 16,274
LA Angels 4, at Tampa Bay 3 16,087
at Cleveland 8, Kansas City 4 15,038
at Florida 4, St. Louis 3 13,103
Minnesota 10, at Oakland 5 10,127

Mean 23,082
Median 20,124

Tuesday June 2nd
RESULT ATT.
at NY Yankees 12, Texas 3 43,948
at St. Louis 5, Cincinnati 2 35,507
at LA Dodgers 6, Arizona 5 32,853
at Atlanta 6, Chicago Cubs 5 30,262
at Toronto 6, LA Angels 4 26,809
at Minnesota 4, Cleveland 3 26,530
Boston 5, at Detroit 1 25,914
at Houston 3, Colorado 2 24,041
Oakland 5, at Chicago Sox 0 20,519
at Seattle 8, Baltimore 2 17,978
Philadelphia 10, at San Diego 5 17,625
at Washington 10, San Francisco 6 17,331
at Tampa Bay 6, Kansas City 2 13,604
at Florida 10, Milwaukee 3 10,831
at Pittsburgh 3, NY Mets 1 10,459

Mean 23,614
Median 24,041

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At the beginning of the year I thought if we could get anywhere

near an end of year average around 27K we would be doing fine. It appears that is still within reach even with all the excuses, copouts, and joblessness.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The weekday non-interleague is closer to 20k

Still closer to 25k than 20k though…

And we drew 13k one of the games…. (june 3rd)

10,000 less than average…..

the other we drew 16k with the average as 23k

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus I think its reasonable to compare the average from last season to the average so far this season

Expectations should be similar right now to what they were towards the end of last season so I don’t see why comparing the attendance marks is silly. I think comparing the beginning of last season to the beginning of this season is kind of misleading.

I can only imagine how band attendance will be if they team falls out of contention.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point

But we were expecting a huge uptick in early season games and I just don’t think we’ve got it. IF we remain in contention you are correct attendance will increase, but if we fall out it will get worse.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

But isn’t that a bad mark on the area?

I think we are actually agreeing. A few of us aren’t getting into the “why” the fans aren’t showing up whereas you are.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think location is more of a factor than laziness or money. But the question comes back to what can the team do? They can’t make people motivated or make the games any cheaper…

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Win

That’s it. The only LT factor on attendance is winning.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is usually a chicken/egg type thing though

How can you win with no attendance and therefore no payroll?

In this case we got lucky and got the winning before the attendance. But it is unreasonable and impossible to expect them to sustain it with this attendance.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No it isn't.

The attendance will come. Patience is key. Holding your own in this economy is huge. Fortunately we can compete at this payrole at least one more year.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the point is at the start of last year the thought was that the Rays were going to stink

So its not comparing apples to apples. I agree end of last to beginning of this isn’t exactly great either.

I don’t think we can reasonably compare 2009 to 2008 expectations ( for home games) until around the LA Angels series…

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the variable that will make or break the season attendance- contention

I think they Rays have a good enough team to at least be in contention. Ownership does too.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

As long as the local media doesn’t resort to sky is falling tendencies.

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish that was the case

Contention won’t boost our 2nd half average to 34k a game…which is what we’d need to hit the pre-season goal

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being league average?

I agree. The mean is definitely a joke (big markets skew the data obviously). The median is a good long term goal for the franchise. I didn’t expect we’d get there this year, but I did expect a bit closer than what we are.

by matthan on Jun 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't.

I still don’t. I was the one saying it wouldn’t happen. The economy is killing it. Everyone should have expected that coming in. If the FO didn’t I can see why WS bankers are at the heart of the current collapse (zinger).

by rglass44 on Jun 24, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't imagine they throw a huge wrench in it

Considering new Yankees Stadium holds fewer people than the old one. Not sure about Citi Field.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 24, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

it’s website wednesday.
let’s talk about website wednesday.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WW is a good abbreviation for Website Wednesday.

When I type Website Wednesday my fingers often get tired because Website Wednesday is so long. Also Wednesday is the hardest day of the week to spell, so that doesn’t help at all when I am trying to type Website Wednesday.

Selgy

by mittens on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You call that a surprise?

I mean we did see it happen last year.

Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, in that case it would be just as entertaining

(Note: this is an indictment of the boringness of soccer, not some creepy pedo statement)

Until Next Time,
The Sports Chief

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah because you're the chief architect behind building actual baseball analysis on this site.

I think you go more OT than any other poster. Not a criticism, but if you don’t want to read about it just don’t open the thread.

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Karma, Baby. Karma

You got just what you asked for Matt Silverman. Messing with the Clearwater Threshers’ bobblehead promotions was one of the Rays dumbest moves of 2009. Keep opening your mouth and inserting your foot, you moron.

by LittleBoPeep on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs