The Bullpen Additions Post

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 7:22 PM EDT Comment 90 comments

Tampa Bay Rays manager Joe Madden, left, takes the ball from reliever Grant Balfour, second from left, after he loaded the bases in the eighth inning of their 4-3 loss to the New York Yankees in a baseball game at Yankee Stadium in New York, Sunday, June 7, 2009. Catcher Dioner Navarro (30) and first baseman Carlos Pena (23) look on during the pitching change. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

8 months ago: Tampa Bay Rays manager Joe Madden, left, takes the ball from reliever Grant Balfour, second from left, after he loaded the bases in the eighth inning of their 4-3 loss to the New York Yankees in a baseball game at Yankee Stadium in New York, Sunday, June 7, 2009. Catcher Dioner Navarro (30) and first baseman Carlos Pena (23) look on during the pitching change. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Browse more photos »

Entering today the Rays' bullpen FIP was 4.43, middle of the pack, if not a bit below average. The weak spots still on the roster to date are Joe Nelson and Dan Wheeler. A lot of people want some roster moves to get a reliever - a Huston Street type -- but unless Wheeler gets dealt elsewhere -- and I have to imagine if that were going to happen, it would've - you're going to have to settle for recycled unsexy names and arms. The Rays A) can't afford to spend more on payroll, B) shouldn't spend more on the bullpen.

Most feasible:

Promote Winston Abreu

Should I beat this dead horse again? I shall. 29 innings, 43 strikeouts, 8 walks, 1 homerun allowed. Look, I'm not suggesting he's going to post a 1.51 FIP in the majors, that would be insane. I would suggest that he deserves a look. Countless teams have passed him over for whatever reason despite solid production and solid stuff. Maybe the guy is secretly a furry or something, but anything shy of that and it raises questions as to why he has less than 40 career big league innings.

Requires some observation:

Claim Jason Grilli

It's funny how things work. The shot Tom Glavine gets released and a pair of fanshots asking for us to sign him pop up. Jason Grilli gets designated for assignment, and there's barely a whisper about claiming him. Grilli is cheap and has successful characteristics. Let's look.

K/9:

2007 7.0

2008 8.28

2009 10.24

BB/9:

2007 5.62

2008 4.56

2009 6.05

GB%

2007 44.8%

2008 42.4%

2009 29%

His fastball is moving a bit less than normal, but just about everything else is exactly how it's been the past two years when he posted FIP of 3.89 and 3.24. Right now he sits at 4.22 despite a poor batted ball profile. Maybe he's broken.

Trade for Joel Hanrahan

Hanrahan is awful and Mike Rizzo should trade him for cash. Really though, a 6.84 ERA probably doesn't inspire much confidence from a dwindling fanbase. Much like Grilli, he's outperforming his ERA. Again, a look:

K/9:

2007 7.59

2008 9.92

2009 10.59

BB/9

2007 6.71

2008 4.48

2009 4.10

FIP

2007 6.08

2008 3.84

2009 3.86

Hanrahan throws hard and he's getting a lot of batters to chase outside of the zone. Think of him as a more successful, less injured version of Grant Balfour before the Rays dealt for him. The Nationals apparently want to get more athletic in any of their trades. No idea who they would want, but Hanrahan is cheap and good.

There are a few other guys who could make nice "challenge trade" type acquisitions and the Rays could always turn a dead-end starter into a reliever. If the Phillies don't want Rodrigo Lopez anymore, throw them a bone for him and give him some middle relief innings. Check into Peter Moylan's medical records, and so on. Cheap nondescript relievers are really easy to find. The names don't have to be sexy to be a fit. Heck, the job sure isn't.

0 recs | Comment 90 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

A question and an opinion

1- Being as quantifying of a GM as Andrew is, why that awful three year deal to Wheeler?

2- DO NOT sign Grilli, he makes Wheeler look good

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Remember when we thought that Wheeler deal was good?

Swav or Die
For the lulz

by SRQman on Jun 7, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're fans, we're not paid to think

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before acquisition...

Wheeler’s tRAs were 2.95 in 2005, 2.99 in 2007, and 3.67 in 2007. With Tampa, his tRA’s have been 3.67 in 2007, 4.98 in 2008, and 6.14 in 2009. Age is surely a factor to some extent, as is a small sample size in 2009, but $3M per year for a reliever with Wheeler’s track record in Houston is quite the deal.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 7, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if we release Percival that would free up salary

but I highly dobt that would happen

Rays baseball + Colorado Football= amazing

by raysfan81 on Jun 7, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How does that 'free up' salary?

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only way

Would be for Percival to freely retire…Apparently there are some deeper personal issues for Percival that won’t let that money come free.

Put Tampa Bay back on our road uniforms!!

by joedobr on Jun 7, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not getting into that.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh.

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 8, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This won't go over well, but give Izzy a shot

kind of silly keeping him on the roster if he’s not going to pitch

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you hate Balfour, you're gonna lead the holocaust against Izzy.

I hate to keep ragging on Maddon because he’s a good manager, but using Balfour against the top of their order is ridiculous. Use Howell, then have Balfour go the 9th. This is very simple. Your best reliever against their best batters late in the game, and deal with the results afterward.

But, more Thayer, more Abreu. Good outing by Nellie today, but it didn’t look like he topped 87 again.

by Suttree on Jun 7, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did he ever top 87?

I hate the BB, and Bal Four imo, is stupid

Kennedy basically said it on the hit by Damon, he never changes the eye angle, and when he threw his slider to A-Rod, it missed so bad i’d have taken it

They sit and wait on his straight fastball or take the walk

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you that it was a really shitty Balfour outing.

Bad calls or not, he was missing the zone. However, in general, he’s still a good reliever. In his last 6 outings, he’s had two bad performances. I’ll take that.

by Suttree on Jun 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not acceptable, because 1 of 3 bad in high leverage, won't cut it

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, it kind of does.

by Suttree on Jun 7, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"2 out of 3 ain't bad"

"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."

by kericr on Jun 8, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we can't trade Wheels, shouldn't we just suck it up and DFA him?

by walkoffwalk on Jun 7, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

by matthan on Jun 7, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The added salary from adding Abreu and ditching Wheeler is far worth the added production

And the extra salary is virtually pennies

by matthan on Jun 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Winston Abreu and Chadford please.

by walkoffwalk on Jun 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

He’s still a good middle reliever.

Get rid of Izzy first and stop using Wheeler in the 8th-9th innings of close games.

by Suttree on Jun 7, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As of today, we don't have more than one reliable 8th or 9th inning pitcher

by Raymondo on Jun 7, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HOLY DOG SHIT

/kills self

by Suttree on Jun 7, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why did Maddon take out Garza after 5

Thats what sucks i dont know his all important pitch count but it couldnt have been real high after only pitching 5 innings thats the real crime here,Garza was getting the job done i know he had some close calls but they had only put 1 run on him leave him in at least till the 7th then put JP in then Balfour as far as im concerned Maddon lost another very important game with his over-managing again.

by Jason B on Jun 7, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Garza was at 96 pitches.

And in the 5th he was at 44% strikes for the inning.
And he threw 25 pitches in that inning.

Methinks maybe he was a bit tired.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tired Garza > our bullpen for 4 innings

by matthan on Jun 7, 2009 10:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Dusty Baker school of pitcher management

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 7, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or Maddon thinks he is coaching little league with mandatory pitch counts?

Big difference between Dusty Baker leaving a pitcher in for 130+ pitches and allowing a guy to go over 100.

by matthan on Jun 8, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was being sarcastic

He wasn’t really tired. He was at 96 pitches. He could have easily gone another 10-15 pitches with no harm to his arm.

by matthan on Jun 8, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd have to check the inning strikezone plot.

But throwing less than 45% strikes isn’t a good way to convince the manager that you aren’t tired.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would consider the A's

russ springer- struggling, but veteran experience
brad ziegler- he’s struggled some and it would be typical A’s to sell high
santiago casilla- headcase, but throws 96mph. maybe a reclamation type like balfour
jeff gray- hard throwing reliever stuck in AAA, needs a chance
chris schroder – milb FA from nats, has some mlb experience

obviously andrew bailey would be great for the rays, but A’s would want alot.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 7, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You know better than to list veteran experience as a reason we'd want him.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Schroder is a guy I really miss on the Nats right now…they could use him. He’d be a nice pickup for the Rays.

by thehoagster07 on Jun 7, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where

has Cormier been the past few days? I would’ve liked to see him come in instead of Balfour today and then put in JP.

Been on the bandwagon since '98

by dray on Jun 7, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i saw stick with nelson and dump wheeler

call up abreu

NFL- Vikings,Lions,Texans,Bills Adrian Peterson!
MLB-Rays,Marlins,Reds,Twins Evan Longoria
NBA-T-Wolves,Cavliiers,Warriors,Bobcats Lebron James!
NHL-Wild,Penguins Sidney Crosby!
NCAA-Gophers,Gators,Longh orns,ND Tim Tebow!
all in the order in which i root for 1st

by RaysOfHope on Jun 7, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wheeler is due for a trip to the DL soon

I believe that will come before he is DFA. If we don’t go outside the organization I wouldn’t mind seeing Wheeler and Balfour to the DL, Nelson DFA and Orvella, Abreu, and Bradford up/back. Have JP pitch the 9th. Izzy/Bradford they 8th and Abreu work the 7th and have Orvella, Cormier and Izzy work mop up duty and Shouse/Choate loogy.

by Dbullsfan on Jun 7, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This

not too sold on Orvella, but im willing to give him another chance

by RaysOfHope on Jun 7, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanrahan

I’m probably the last Nats fan to believe in him. This is only his second year as a reliever and Manny Acta screwing with his head all of the time doesn’t exactly help him with the transition. I don’t think the Nats would move him, mainly due to a feeling that Rizzo is a fan of him (Acta is obviously not).

by thehoagster07 on Jun 7, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

so how much u think strasburg is going to get?

by RaysOfHope on Jun 7, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh jeez….I’ll guess 18 million, and that’s optimistic. At the end of the day, the Nats need to sign him but there’s no way he gets the 50 million Boras wants.

by thehoagster07 on Jun 7, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ya i couldn't believe the 50 million talk when it was reported

im think more like 15

by RaysOfHope on Jun 8, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the front office decides to dump Wheeler it will be a first

No doubt they recognize Dan’s problems, but I think it would have to be opposite day for them to eat the remainder of his contract.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jun 8, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well they have to do something, DL him or shop him for nothing

by RaysOfHope on Jun 8, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is a sunk cost

The additional salary they would take on by calling someone up from the minors is very small. If they aren’t in the pennant race that is where they’ll be hurt most in the wallet. Adding a few hundred thousand (wouldn’t it be prorated also) wouldn’t impact them at all. Especially given how fickle this fan base is and the variation of our possible attendance given our record. Winning is VERY important. That is how they will make their money.

by matthan on Jun 8, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure Wheeler is a sunk cost

I hate to beat a dead horse or try to squeeze more blood out of this stone, but Wheeler’s still a solid middle reliever. The problem hasn’t really been Wheeler, it’s been his usage.

by Suttree on Jun 8, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 8, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What skills do you see that make him solid?

No way I think he’s better than even a 4.50 ERA guy, which is nearly replacement-level for a reliever.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It depends on whether or not you believe leverage changes a pitcher's performance

Wheeler’s splits are pretty striking. In low to mid leverage situations Wheeler has a 3.09:1 K/BB ratio whiel throwing 67% strikes. His BB/9 jumps over 2 BBs when you look a hi-very hi. He will still allow the occasional home run, but does not allow a lot of baserunners in lower leverage situations.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using 2009 data? 2008 through 2009 data?

I’m prone to thinking that’s all small sample size stuff, unless he’s shown a leverage split over his career.

Are there any splits that connect with the leverage splits, like batter handedness; maybe more lefties in higher-lev situations?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

08-09

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Career it definitely lessens the gap but there still is a gap

K:BB
L 2.73
M 2.87
H 2.64

AB/HR
Hi 25.04
Med 33.87
Low 31.27

PA for sample size ref
L:893
M: 508
H: 679

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about FIPs by leverage?

How drastically different are those performances? Also, I wonder what the league splits as a whole are. I’m guessing in high-leverage situations the hitting teams will pinch hit more and pay more attention to L/R issues.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There ya go

I had to get a crude estimate on IP using AB-H+DP+CS+SF+SH. This does not account for POs and running into outs.

I then subtracted IBB from BB and added HBP for the walks. The high leverage IBB seems to have made a big difference. Used constant of 3.2.

Hi: 4.07
Med: 3.93
Low 4.03

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, by FIP, he's been the same pitcher in all situations...

Thanks for crunching those numbers.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But a 4 FIP is better than replacement no?

Just not someone who should be trotted out in high leverage situations.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True.

What year(s) went into that data?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Caee

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that would be career

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jun 9, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But how good is he KNOW and how should he be used NOW?

Using the in-season ZiPS projection at Fangraphs, he’s at 4.27. Better than I expected actually. Valuable? Sure. More valuable than Gabe Kapler? Debatable. Honestly.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Cormier still amonhst us?

by Raymondo on Jun 8, 2009 7:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

^among

by Raymondo on Jun 8, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Possible trade targets

I’m throwing this out there to see what yall think might be viable in a trade.

Andrew Bailey
Leo Nunez
Heath Bell
Chad Qualls
David Aardsma
Matt Capps

I’m not saying we shouldn’t give Abreu a shot or call Thayer back up. Just musing. We need 1 or 2 new arms in that pen.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jun 8, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Too "sexy", IMHO

Bailey, Bell, Nunez, and Qualls will cost a pretty penny in prospects b/c they’re controlled and cheap. Nunez has been lucky.

Capps is awful, expensive, and overrated.

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aardsma is probably the most available.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know that it has cost us some games already

But aside from calling up Abreu or Thayer, I dont think much needs to be done. When Bradford gets back, we have Howell, Cormier or Bradford that we can use in high leverage. Balfour has been inconsistent but when he has been on hes plenty good in high leverage. We still then have Wheeler and Abreu/Thayer to eat up innings and Shouse/Choate as the LOOGY. That bullpen is absolutely fine, and considering most of the time you have Shields and Garza eating innings, and the occasional deep start from the other three, youre looking at having to dig into this bullpen at most twice during a series. As long as that is the case, I like are chances and think we are fine.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bringing Wade Davis up 2 months early couldn't hurt either. If he is going to reprise the role of David Price circa 2009

why not have him come up and slot in as either the long man, pushing Cormier into higher leverage situations, or in the Dan Wheeler role? It’s not going to hurt his development to face Big League hitters.

Rays Win!

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 8, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Glendon Rusch?

He was cut by the Rox recently and I don’t think someone else has signed him yet.

FIP last 2 years was 4.27 and 4.30.
K/BB of 2.20 and 4.33

Doesn’t K (K/9 = 5.92, 6.27 a lot of batters, but walks very few as well (BB/9 = 2.69, 1.45)

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=707&position=P

Nothing special, but for no prospects and prorated minimum, worth a shot?

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would be fine with Rusch

But I think defining everyone’s role in the bullpen is much more important than adding an arm. Even Balfour said this morning in the St Pete Times about how everyone in the bullpen kind of knew who was going to come in at what time last year, and it hasnt been the same this year. I think once Bradford gets back, and maybe a move of Sonny to the pen when Kaz gets back (regardless of this happening or not) will get this pen in order. I hope Maddon does a little better job with usage and matchups, but aside from that I think this pen is perfectly capable the way it is (with Bradford) and can at the very worst keep us in almost all games. That being said, just like everyone else I am running out of patience and ready to see us stop blowing games. But I definitely think we have the personnel to be succesful.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe's conservative nature..

With Evan sitting another day when he didn’t need to, Aybar plays 3B and costs the Rays the game making an error on a ball that Longo turns into a DP every time.

Go find a stopper for a reliever and quit thinking the Rays hands are tied financially. That’s a boatload of horseshit. If it takes trading Hellickson, Kaz whoever, this team has got to fix it’s leaking siv in the BP if this team is going to compete this season.

As stated in another thread, give Kaz a shot at closer. As of now, there isn’t an arm in the pen to get an out if you need it.

It don’t look to fuck’n good!

by ConnorManning on Jun 8, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, would you like to present some evidence that the Rays' hands aren't tied financially?

It’s not like they operated in the red last year or anything.

And clearly Evan was really healthy running those bases! And his shoulder/elbow is fine, too. Hasn’t been icing that every day for the last week or two.

by Suttree on Jun 8, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm...

If it takes trading Hellickson, Kaz whoever, this team has got to fix it’s leaking siv in the BP if this team is going to compete this season.

How’s that Putz trade working out for the Mets, ehhh? Even before he got hurt.

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you read the paper this morning

You would have seen both Maddon and Evan quoted as saying that is 100% Evan’s decision when he plays right now. So dont bash Maddon for Evan not feeling ready. And as for Kaz, yea old Kaz would have been awesome as a closer in my opinion. But you really want a guy that couldnt even go three innings as of a few weeks ago closing games? Youre worried about Balfour in high leverage and you want to just throw Kaz in there? That is insane right now. And trade Hellickson? For what? And why would you sacrifice a plus plus pitcher of the future for an extra 3 to 4 wins at most this season? I understand its tough to watch the pen blow a game, but as soon as you feel as though “you have to make a trade” is when you get robbed. And quite frankly, I dont think there is one reliever I would trade Hellickson for right now.

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is he a pussy?

Every player is sore in one part of their body or another. Geeeeeeeeeez! Play your studs and quit handling them like they’re some rare piece of china that’s going to break. It only instills being a whimp and not being able to tough things out!

Here’s the bottom line regarding Payroll:

2008

$160M in revenue
$ 50M payroll
$ 30M operating expense

So where’s the missing $80M genius? Is Sternberg paying himself that kind of jack? Where does it disappear to?

There’s planty of money!

As stated in another thread. Yes it is hindsight, but wouldn’t it be nice to have Fuentes in the pen rather than Burrell on this team. SO he would have cost $2M more. He’s more valuable at this juncture.

by ConnorManning on Jun 8, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah, yes! TOUGHNESS! GRIT! THE CORNERSTONES OF SUCCESS!

Making sure your best player can play the entire season instead of snapping his hamstring is for fucking pussies! TY COBB WOULD HAVE NEVER STOOD FOR THIS. HE WOULD HAVE SPAT IN JOE MADDON’S FACE AND SAID,“I’M GOING TO TEAR MY GOD DAMN HAMSTRING OUT AND PLAY JUST TO PROVE WHAT A CUNT YOU ARE, JOE.” And then Ty Cobb would have called BJ Upton a lazy porch monkey and drop kicked the umpire for not giving JP Howell strikes! Holy dog shit, was Ty Cobb a man!

Also, would you perhaps like to reveal a source for your numbers?

by Suttree on Jun 8, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again

No one is handling Evan right now. It is his decision. So if you have a problem with him not playing, bash him and not Maddon. And as for those financials, where did you get those numbers? I will go ahead and believe Friedman when he says were done spending after the Burrell deal over you throwing out random numbers. If those are correct than fine, Ill eat my words. But until you show me where those are coming from and that those are our only expenses, Im going to go ahead and believe Friedman. And donth you think if we had $80M lying around it would be put to use?

by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the world of Maddon!

I believe Joe’s the epitome of the YTK manager, which is a good thing. I also believe Maddon to be a bit soft. In contrast, if we take our previous manager (Lou Piniella) do you think Longoria would be playing yesterday against the F’N YANKEES!!!! no less or sitting the bench. My point is you can’t let these players have the last say if they’re playing or not and treat them like pansies. Once you treat ‘em to not want to play they’ll always have that demeanor. As the old saying goes, You can take a monkey out of the jungle, but you can’t the jungle out of the monkey.

The money? Go to Forbes ranking chief and see where the Rays land.

We may not have all the exact figures but here’s what we know for fact. The Rays payroll last season was approx $50M. Operating costs were Approx. $30M. This includes bonuses, draft signees etc. Now we have that, let’s say TB made $120M last year, and not the correct figure of $160M.

Where’s the other $40M if we’re figuring way low? Where did it go? Did it disappear off the face of the Earth? Where the hell is it?

Thank You in advance for your response.

by ConnorManning on Jun 8, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Maddon had played Longoria and he completely pulled his hamstring

you would be on here calling for Maddon’s head. Longoria is a professional athlete and probably wants to play and compete everyday, but knows it wasn’t the smartest decision to do so. He isn’t making up injuries to sit out games like Manny.

by nolesblogger on Jun 8, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Considering Forbes' sports rankings are pretty consistently pegged as unreliable, I think it's pretty clear we don't know the facts about the payroll.

by Suttree on Jun 8, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not arguing with you

I’ve heard Forbes projections are nuts on. If there is proof anywhere that Forbes is the National Enquirer in projecting worth of MLB teams, please provide a link to it, I’d love to read it.

BTW, the numbers I will provide from Forbes will jump next season as parking, sovenier, ticket sales, etc. are all at record numbers even in this trecherous economic time.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/33/baseball-values-09_Tampa-Bay-Rays_337975.html

1-Yr Value Chg. 10%
Ann. Value Chg. 10%
Debt/Value 19%
Revenue $160 mil
Operating Inc. $29.4 mil
Player Expenses $67 mil
Gate Receipts $40 mil

So I ask again and I’ll say please, pretty please with sugar on top. Where is the other approx. $60M going ? Is Stu buying new Ferrarri’s, Monte Carlo summer homes, and putting his family & friends on the payroll to show a loss?

Where’s it going?

by ConnorManning on Jun 9, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs