The New Jeff Niemann Experience
Even though Jeff Niemann isn't starting tonight, I wanted to give this proper attention before we (I?) spend most of tomorrow talking and focusing on the draft. We've talked about Niemann cutting down on his pregame throwing as a potential reason for improvement. More sharp, more velocity, and he seems to have a better feel for his curve which he's using more. As far as I can tell, that started prior to the Baltimore game on May 13th. Let's slice and dice.
April 11th - May 8th: 6 GS, 28.2 IP, 13.4 BB%, 11.9 K%, 4 HR, 57% strikes, 6% swinging strikes
May 13th - June 3rd: 5 GS, 31 IP, 4.9 BB%, 18.7 K%, 4 HR, 66% strikes, 8% swinging strikes
Improved durability/efficiency? Check.
Improved command? Check.
More whiffs? Barely, but check.
His FIP in either month is not incredibly pretty; both are over 5, but check this out. Over his last 31 innings Niemann has a 3.91 FIP. In March/April it was 6.04; in May, 5.25. Going from the ~5.5 range to ~4 is pretty impressive. That's the difference between Jon Lester, Gavin Floyd, and Johnny Cueto; and Braden Looper, Jeremy Guthrie, and Armando Galarraga. That's a huge, huge, huge difference.
Pitch types:
Last 30 days: 73% fastballs (92 MPH), 12% curves
May: 72% fastballs (91 MPH), 10% curves
March/April: 73% fastballs (91 MPH), 7% curves
I complained a lot about Niemann's fastball usage. The main points were: A) it's not a very good pitch when being thrown 90-92 MPH and he had spotty control of it, and B) not good when his fastball is taking away shine from his curve. As it turns out, Niemann has improved his velocity and command of the pitch, so I'll go ahead and retract that criticism until further notice.
Niemann still needs to work on changing his early game predictability, but he's improved markedly since my last lengthy Niemann post. Certianly there's a chance that Niemann falls into the quicksand again, but there's enough support outside of improved peripherals to suggest this could be legitimate. The funniest aspect is that Niemann always claimed to be a slow warmer; apparently he's just a big dummy.
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"That's the difference between Jon Lester, Gavin Floyd, and Johnny Cueto and Braden Looper, Jeremy Guthrie, and Armando Galarraga."
LEARN TO PHRASE YOUR COMMAS BETTER. A SEMICOLON MIGHT BE USEFUL HERE.
I was planning on adding more.
But I’m convinced that most people would wonder whether I was criticizing Niemann or not if I threw Jorge de la Rosa into the first group.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 7, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
.
I don’t understand you’re problem. His grammar is:
(a) appropriate considering the circumstances, and even if it wasn’t,
(i) this is a blog not a technical document; and
(ii) you still understand what he was getting at;
(b) proper per Strunk and White; and
© a reference to his Godlike status, and you know what – you just don’t fuck with God.
Besides, he uses the Harvard comma. How can you fault that?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
"I don’t understand you’re problem."
Poor form.
RD over and out.
by ReasonableDoubt on Jun 8, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemann the dummy?
I find it shocking that the reason Niemann took a long time to warm up is because he took a long time to warm up. Did he just start doing longer warm ups after his shoulder surgery and never rethought the process?
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jun 7, 2009 10:50 PM EDT reply actions
I'm curious about this as well
Was there every any evidence of him pitching better after longer warmups?
Selgy
Th Rays gave Edwin a little long than Niemann has had to improve
It comes down to now he has a pitching coach more suitable for him. I do not think he would be doing this if he had stayed in TB
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He had years to take the next step in TB
in a short time in Detroit he has done what he failed to do here. Credit must be given to the coaching and his new set of tools. Its not enough evidence to say Hickey sucks. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes and methods can do the trick. I’m sure Det has a pitcher who may have better success under Hickey than they are experiencing now. I do not think Edwin would have had the same results here that he is currently experiencing. It may be the type of trade where both teams benefitted.
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It's like with Garza.
The Twins couldn’t reach him. We had a system in place that eventually broke through to him.
Thankfully (hopefully), we got a better return on Jackson than the Twins got on Garza (and Bartlett).
Garza 24 starts with Twins
Jax 63 with Rays
Twins made that deal, not because they 'gave up' on Garza, but valued Young
With Jax, i doubt the Rays thought he could do what he’s done this season
It was a combination
If they knew Garza would develop like this, its a different story. Its very similar.
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That would make it less forgivable for the Twins to cut the cord so early
The Rays had more time to try to max EJ
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You could also say the same for Niemann
His improvement over the last two years have been slow, but his improvement over the last few months of being in MLB has been very fast. Is this because he has Hickey coaching him everyday?
Here's my gut feeling
If the Rays underperform in the W/L and pitching is to blame, Hickey is the fall guy.
So, does Hickey get credit for the last starts made by Shields and Niemann?
Or only when our pitchers fuck up?
Personally, i don't think a coach at the MLB level
is that important
Players learn their trade long before getting here
It is a cumulative thing
If our pitchers as a whole underperform then yes Hickey is at least partially to blame. Credit or blame shouldn’t be given for any singular game for a position coach.
True
Also shouldn’t have their ultimate judgement based on one player’s development or lack thereof.
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I thought I heard that Shields is starting tomorrow
so that he gets two starts during the home stand.
You're right. Shields is slated to go tomorrow, with Niemann taking the mound on Wednesday.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
Still not sold on this guy. I would have liked to have seen him get a start in Yankee Stadium under this new preparation procedure
before coming around.
So long, Sweet Lime!
Seriously
Its getting pretty fucking old. Jackson has “figured it out.” He didnt and wasnt going to do it here, that was evident. Regardless of the source of this change, nothing can be done about it now and I know everyone on this board feels as though we got a good player in Joyce so I dont understand why he is even still talked about. I dont see people constantly talking about every other trade Andrew has fleeced other GM’s on. Its not as though we even got beaten in this trade, what would everyone say if Joyce ends up with 400 PA’s next year and rakes and Edwin reverts back to old form? Its all speculation and all we can do is evaluate who we have at this point and that is Joyce. SO unless youre making some stupid comment about trading back for Edwin, shut the hell up and move on. Hes not a Ray anymore so there is no use in analyzing him every single day.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
You think this is old?? Ha ha
The Indians forum has at least one daily post which reflects on the Brandon Phillips deal and that is into its fourth season. It’s simply a debate, where’s the harm?
Because at this point it is irrelevant.
What is the point in discussing this anymore? And by your logic, we should continue to talk about Kevin Stocker for Abreu? Just because it was such a lopsided deal does not mean it should get a ton of analysis every minute. And the Phillips deal was bad, Joyce for EJax? Im still fine with it. Ya EJax looks great right now, but I didnt see you write shit about him the other night when Joyce went 3 for 4 with a double and a bomb. All Im saying is that its a waste of space and time to continue to harp on this deal. It would be one thing if we got robbed, but that is far from the truth so I dont understand the continuing attention being paid to this trade.
by BJ the Bossman on Jun 8, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Theres never harm in debate
It just seems like this debate is over until something changes. There is a general consensus that Edwin would not have realized this success in TB. Hats off to Dets pitching coaches and Edwin. The Rays acquired a longterm everyday rightfielder with some pop. A big upgrade. 3 yrs vs 6 and so on. If you feel differently, there can be debate. You didn’t provide an argument though, just a passive aggressive comment about "So what you’re saying is a young pitcher can actually improve ". You do know Edwin’s time to develop in the rotation is laughably more than NIemann’s.
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Steve Trachsel thinks Jeff Niemann takes a long time between pitches.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
Without accounting for extra innings
Average time of games:
Garza 3:06
Kazmir 3:07
Niemann 3:09
Price 3:27
Shields 2:59
Sonnanstine 2:59
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I just realized the current five starters add up to nearly 20 hours.
Oh heavens.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I've got 15:38, I don't know where the hell you're getting 20 hours from
Especially since none of the current 5 starters is averaging anywhere near 4 hours a game.
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
I must've added them all up in Excel.
Meaning all 6.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Tough to analyze
Jeff is only averaging 5.15 Innings per start. Its tough to decide what % of that 3:09 he is responsible for. Hes clearly a turtle on the mound. At the same time once you’re in the bullpen there are mid-inning breaks in the action. ANd then there is the Rays offense fluctuations. I’m rambling, but I’d be very curious what Niemanns actual average half inning time is.
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He wasn't as slow
I noticed that he worked faster during his last start. Maybe it was because he didn’t get into as many jams. When he gets into jams he tends to spend more time behind the mound talking to himself. I hear it’s something their learning from the “sports psychologist” guy.

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