Andy Sonnanstine's Future
Entering tonight's game, 12.5% of Sonnanstine's fly balls were exiting the playing field. That's a touch more than you should expect from a pitcher, but not so egregiously that you would expect a ton of regression. Last year he was on the opposite side of the spectrum by only giving up 8% homeruns, so in some ways he was due for a year like he's had so far. Tonight, 12 fly balls were hit off him, grab your calculators and punch those figures in, you get 1.5 homeruns. Instead, an additional 2.5 left the park. That pushes Sonnanstine's HR/FB up to 15.5%.
Pizza Cutter has done a ton of work finding the R= 0.70 mark for statistics. Here's the link to the pitching stats one. Long-story made short, it never did, even at 750 batters faced. Over 300 batters faced you get a R of .145 and over 750 that number increases to .207. As he says, you cannot get the full picture from one season worth of data. Pitchers that give up a ton of homeruns simply don't exist in the majors. They don't last. Same with pitchers who give up a ton of liners or who get crushed a lot. Knowing that, we can assume the BABIP and homerun fluctuations aren't anything to be concerned about for the long-term.
Let's get back to tonight. Sonnanstine had a 20.1% line drive rate and a .354 BABIP. Those probably regressed a bit, as the latter should continue to do. Compared to previous seasons, there's some statistical differences:
Listed from 2007-2009
K%: 17.5, 15.1, 12.6
BB%: 4.7, 4.5, 6.3
GB%: 38.9, 42.1, 43.7
Less strikeouts and more walks couldn't come at a worse time. Sonnanstine's ability to get first-pitch strikes is still right around what you would expect at 60%, his career average is 62.3%. His Contact% is almost identical to last year, same with his total amount of pitches in the zone. Heck, even his O-Swing% isn't too far off his career average. Batters are actually swinging less against him and making more contact out of the zone. So let's break this down.
Same amount of contact as last season
Same amount of pitches in zone
Same amount of first pitch strikes
Less players swinging at balls outside of the zone but making more contact with those they do swing at
Swinging less overall
Same amount of contact, yet less in zone
Walks up, strikeouts down
More pitches per plate appearance
All of that put together, and I have to think it's a command issue. If it were a control issue, he would be missing the zone more often. Instead, he's not placing the ball far enough down, up, in, or out of the zone. So batters can still make contact. The pitches out of the zone he is throwing aren't confusing enough hitters to whiff on. This would explain why he threw curves up against Jose Guillen and Miguel Olivo instead of burying them in the dirt and watching both hack like school children. It would also explain why some of his pitches end up over the middle instead of the outside or inside, especially against right-handed batters. See, this:

Is this fixable? I don't know. Scouts knocked him on his command in the minors. It's the same complaint given against Jeremy Hellickson. Sonnanstine didn't allow these issues to flare up over the last two seasons and became quite useful because of it. Whatever has caused this retardation of skill; whether it be physical or otherwise, must be eliminated if Sonnanstine hopes to retain a rotation spot throughout the remainder of the season. Scott Kazmir is going to return at some point, and with the way Jeff Niemann has started to pitch, that leaves Sonny as the guy heading to the pen.
Amusingly, some of these same problems plagued shaggy-haired starter J.P. Howell before he moved to the bullpen and became the iceman of the staff. I'm not saying Sonnanstine is going to become Howell nor am I saying this is anything but a long, and potentially tedious, outlier year for Sonnanstine the starter. I'm simply saying yeah, there's a precedent for this happening on the Rays staff. And hey, wouldn't that be something if Sonnanstine became that bullpen arm we've been looking for?
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Why? His command had not been an issue the last two seasons.
It is now, and they sat down hoping it would fix itself (or rather, Sonny would fix it). You never make a decision on a player with a solid track record in the first two months. However, Sonny has been unable to fix himself. Hopefully the Rays will be making a move within his next two starts are so.
And yeah, I think he’d be extremely valuable out of the pen. Not quiet as good as Howell because he doesn’t have the same movement on his pitches, but with his two-seam fastball and curve he should be plenty of effective. His ability to pitch multiple innings will be valuable as well.
Bullpen arm?
So you’re a fan of the late inning HR?
There's a long ass track record of mediocre starting pitchers becomming good relievers.
If Sonny relies on his two-seam fastball and curve, he will be an effective pitcher. His piss poor cutter command has really hurt him this year.
your above suggestion is all i see for him
eat some innings when your SP gets rocked
Would he really ditch the cutter when he throws in 50% of the time?
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Homeruns go down 13% moving from the rotation to the pen.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And to round this out.
Walks remain steady, strikeouts increase 15%.
So yeah, I’m sure a ~4-4.5 RA starter is going to be better than a “mop up” reliever.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Hughes shouldn't be in the bullpen to start with.
They’ve badly bungled that situation.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you fucking ever think positive?
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
You could have simply asked if he ever thinks
He shoots from the hip, he’s the decider, you’re with him or you’re with the terrorists yada yada yada
Rays Win!
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, it probably would have been better then, "ARE you fucking ever think positive"
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
I'm not worried about the future of the Rays rotation at all
There’s a stud or two at every level, none of these soft tosssers like Sonny, and i’m on record as not a fan of Hell-boy
Vero Beach ain't Yankee Stadium
Too many long balls in A and AA
VB gives up a ton of homeruns. Have you ever visited that place?
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
What happened last year?
Who led the Devil Rays in HR?
Does that really make a difference?
We had like one worthwhile batter in Vero last season, and he lasted for 30 games.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Johan Santana and James Shields are notorious for giving up home runs.
They also strike guys out and don’t walk people, two things Hellickson does very well.
Last year in AA Hellickson had 79 Ks in 75.1 IP, with 15 walks and 15 home runs. Break me off some of that, please.
Why not reflect on the positive side of my post?
I love Davis, Moore, Gorgen, McGee and a few others
It takes more than velocity to be a good starter.
Fastball command
An outpitch
Pitches that tail away from both hands
Unpredictability
Change speeds
So on.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely it does
but give me a SP with FB command over Sonny any day
.... which is what we're saying.
His command hasn’t been good enough for him to survive as a starter this year. It may improve in the pen. This happens regularly.
commanding a 86 mph and missing means c'ya
missing in the mid 90’s upstairs can mean SO
RIGHT.
BUT, THERE IS A LARGE TRACK RECORD OF FAILED STARTERS WITH OCCASIONALLY ROUGH COMMAND MOVING TO THE BULLPEN AND HAVING IMPROVED COMMAND, FOR WHATEVER REASON.
ALSO, IN SHORTER OUTINGS, HE DOESN’T HAVE TO SWAP UP HIS PITCH SELECTION SO FREQUENTLY, AND CAN RELY ON HIS EFFECTIVE PITCHES.
Why do you automatically assume a mid 90s FB misses the zone while a mid 80s fastball goes over the plate
Two different scenarios. Your vague anecdote provides no justification to anything you said, other than the fact that you think we’ve all had labotomies to think that comment was worth anything.
An 85 MPH fastball can miss just as easily outside of the zone as a mid 90s fastball. Since when does the speed matter with where the pitch misses. I’m sure if a mid 80s fastball misses high it is less likely to be swung at, but the difference between a ball and a strikeout and a home run and a strikeout in this very specific of a situation is miniscule and insignificant.
This sounds so much better than "Give me someone over this soft-tosser."
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
there are quite a few people here who *gasp* don't talk baseball at times on this site (as I'm sure you know)
and while I’m rarely one of those people they seem to be content with themselves, so I thought I would give it a try. Turns out having to write this comment was more trouble than it was worth, so maybe I’ll go back to providing reasoned analysis
The startling stat on Sonny, imo is his low K total
Has the league figured out what to sit on?
maybe its the fact that more pitches are going over the middle of the plate and therefore getting swung at before Ks can pile up
valid point
notice how Pettitte pitched Longo tonite
he never threw a strike bit K’d him twice
yes, but Pettitte was smart enough to see Longo was anxious
it’s a mental game too
No, just bad command, which is why the walks are up to.
The Adam Jones home run stands out to me. He’s up two strikes on the guy with some good pitches and throws a cutter. If he throws the pitch right, it rides up on Jones’ hands and Pacman isn’t going to be able to turn on it. But, it cuts across the fat part of the plate and Jones takes it out of the park. If he commands the pitch like he did last year, that doesn’t happen (though a cutter to a right handed batter is a little mystifying anyway).
To answer your question of if I would like to see Sonny become the bullpen arm we think we need
No… he is more valuable as a starter. I haven’t seen so much go wrong with him this year to change that opinion. It makes more sense if Jeff Niemann pitches… well… like the top prospect he once was, but still.
I’m hard pressed to think that the FIP finishes at 4.50 or higher on the year… it may be close to that, but still above league average; given his past body of work I still think he is the better bet in the rotation. I expect the HR rate to regress back to around 10%, the LOB% to be around 70, and similar end results to occur. Obviously the shaky start hurts the final outcome, but from here on out I’m not as worried as you seem to be. I would like to see less cutters as its sapping the effectivenes…. drastically, but I feel the control was the issue before.
The command has always been the weak spot, but last year it didn’t hurt him so bad. While I’m sure a few more runs will catch up with him. If the control is back, as it seems it is, then I don’t see why we can’t expect him to ptich at least similarly to the way he did last year. If he can give between a 4.00 – 4.35 FIP I would rather have him in the rotation, easily, than in the bullpen.
Obviously he's more valuable as a starter.
No argument from me at all on that point.
And I mostly agree with everything else you said. Although at some point, Kazmir/Davis are going to knock on the door, and if Niemann is legit, Sonny is going to be the one moving. Meaning he’s more of a victim of a good numbers game rather than “Well he’s awful, move him because you have to.”
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 8, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
This all needs more time to play out
We don’t know how legit Niemann is. He’s had his way with some pretty anemic offenses while struggling against good ones. The Royals have been oh so bad. Lets hope he continues his success this week.
Sonny too has been plagued by inconsistency. In any other ballpark he gives up two home runs last night and overall has good results.
There is no reason to rush Kaz back until there is good reason to believe he is ready. Niemann and Sonny should resolve itself.
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we also don't know if Davis/Hellickson/Talbot will be legit along with Niemann, and that doesn't include Kaz
I still think I’d be surprised to see five other pitchers put up FIPs of 4.25 or better. Call me skeptical or dellusional for my love of Sonny, but a move to the bullpen now would be premature
And he's doing well in AAA
"Where we all wait in earnest with pudding in hand for the Upton comet to sail through the roofed skies, so that we may meet Him."
Program note late nighters
My boy Howard on Letterman tonite
Insomnia
I would like to see what he can do out of the pen. Worst case, once Kazmir returns, Sonny is his designated long-reliever; Cormier can do the same for Price.
But seriously, didn’t Howell see his velocity tick upward and HR rate drop significantly once he moved to the pen?
Yes, Sonny would probably be more valuable as a starter. Couldn’t you make the same case for Howell, yet nobody wants to return him to the rotation? Howell had FIP’s in the fours as a starter too.
Really, so far 2009 Sonny seems a lot like the 2007 JP Howell. One difference, Howell’s K/9 was pretty good even as a starter whereas Sonny is in the fives and trending in the wrong direction.
We also have to keep an eye on the future. Given there remain a number of starting rotation options (knock on wood), were Sonny to excel as a reliever, wouldn’t other teams value him more than they do now when they see a low-ceiling, average at best, hittable starter?
baseball is played on a calculator in your grandmother's basement, not on the field
I wonder what Sonnys trade value would be
If another team values him as a starter then we should be able to get more in return than we would if we just put him in the pen.
I also agree that it is a command issue. Sonny has enough pitches to keep people guessing but he has nothing superb. He needs to command his pitches. He doesn’t have the stuff to miss over the plate. Shields, Garza, and Price have a larger margin of error due to their stuff although missing right down the pipe is bad for any pitcher.
Sonny should be a NL starter
I worry moving him to the bullpen will lower his trade value. I have enough faith in him to regain some of the command before setting sail to the NL where he can swing the bat every five days and face easier lineups.
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Sonny is our number 5 pitcher right now. He pitched well enough to keep us in the game and absorbed 7 innings to boot.
I’m not sure what you guys expect, I mean the Yankees have a tremendous offense exacerbated by a homer friendly park. We had a 50% chance of winning into the 6th. I place the blame for this loss at the feet of the “heart” of our order. Longo is pressing and Pena needs to get the prescription filled on his contacts. Both those guys are swinging for the dinger everytime. Maybe, it’s a competitive thing after seeing the Yankees pop fly a few out, but both those guys were pressing.
We currently have too many holes in the lineup to have our best players failing. Right now, we need guys to elevate their game to pick up the slack. Back to Sonnanstine, sure it wasn’t a dominant performance, but we were in the game. His K’s are down his BB and HR are up, and yet he still found a way to gut it out on the mound. I would love a better performance out of him, but 28 times we have scored 4 or less runs this year, 31 times we have scored 5 or more. The Yanks bullpen is worse than ours and we made them look good by swinging at poor pitches.
Rays Win!
BTW Hittracker has Damon's HR as a 20-park homer and Jeter's was a 26 park homer.
Not every park would have held the ball in, but, Damon’s especially was helped by that ______ (fill in a punny title for that shitfield)
Rays Win!
It looks like Teix hit his into an 18 MPH wind, Damon's was into a 4 MPH wind, Swisher's was carried by a 7 MPH, and Jeter's was 0
According to the site, the atmospheric information is entered by humans, so take that with a grain of salt.
Rays Win!
Just seems unreliable to call it hitting into the wind when the ball flies out of the ballpark ya know?
Wind at flag level may be blowing in, but not within the stadium where the wind tunnel exists. Damon was disgusted by his swing.
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Thanks
I just can’t buy that about Damon’s home run. Is std distance the distance it actually went? How reliable is this? I’m less than a physics novice.
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Yeah from what I understand the Std Distance is from more traditional sources while the "true" distance is what they use
True distance had him at 369, not exactly a blast.
Damon’s Homer trajectory:
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Rays Win!
Hopefully Sonny's future is in AAA
So he can learn to quit hanging his goddamn braking pitches.
Three of his homers were on sliders, and the other (the one by Swisher) was on a cutter.
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helpful chiming in
not… Lets bring up Davis now I gues… Orlando Rays has vaguely prophesized a decline

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