Talking About the 2010 Rays
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 10, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintI got a request a few days ago to write a post on the 2010 Rays. What better time to make that post than today? It's Friday, we're coming off a very good start by David Price, a sweep of a division foe, and heading into a series in which the Rays will wear the rainbow threads for the first time since 2000. Obviously we have a long, long time to discuss the details and I would rather avoid reckless rosterbation, but here we go.
First base: Carlos Pena (10.1 mil, last year)
The only option whether the Rays plan on attempting to extend him or not. Odds are Pena qualifies with Type-A status, meaning the Rays could collect two draft picks from the team that signs him. Tommy talked about re-signing Pena last week, and yeah, I love ‘Los just like everyone else, but it's probably not a good idea. Players with Pena's skill set don't age kindly, and Pena turns 32 next season making a multiple year contract more risky than smart.
Second base: Ben Zobrist (cost control, arb eligible after the season, free agent eligible after 2013)
Akinori Iwamura has a 250k buyout. He may or may not qualify for Type-B status, which would require the Rays to decline the option then offer arbitration in which Iwamura would have to decline. For someone coming off a knee injury, you wonder whether the extra sandwich pick after round 2 is worth it. Maybe the Rays can accept the option and trade him.
Third base: Evan Longoria
Next.
Shortstop: Jason Bartlett (Arb2 after 2009)
Bartlett's season ensures a raise. He's making close to 2 million already, I wouldn't be shocked if he doubles that. With Reid Brignac sitting around and Bartlett coming off a career best season, you have to wonder what the trade market would look like. He'll be 30 and right now he has a .960 OPS, .200 points above his previous career best. Prime or not, that's not repeating itself.
Left field: Carl Crawford (10 million, last year)
Two scenarios here.
A) Crawford stays with the Rays, gets Type-A status, Rays get two picks.
B) Someone blows the Rays away with an offer and Gabe Gross/Fernando Perez take over.
Don't buy into the "WE CAN'T LET CARL WALK FOR NOTHING!!" talk, really, it's fiction. Unless someone comes close to the deal that Atlanta gave Texas for Mark Teixeira, it's probably better to let him walk.
Center field: B.J. Upton (Arb eligible after 2009)
Next.
Right field: Matt Joyce (cost control)
Next.
Designated hitter: Pat Burrell (9 million, last year)
Pray that he hits like in the past. If he qualifies for Type-A status and the Rays can cash in, they could have seven first/supplemental round picks in the 2011 draft. That would be spectacular.
Catcher: TBD
Maybe it's Navarro or Jaso, maybe it's someone not on the roster or in the organization. Way too early to speculate.
Bench:
Gabe Gross/Fernando Perez
Infielder
Rotation
James Shields, Matt Garza, Scott Kazmir(?), David Price, ???
Bullpen
J.P. Howell, Grant Balfour, Dan Wheeler, Lance Cormier, John Meloan, Brian Shouse(?), ???
Payroll without arb: ~49 million
Budget space:~ 15 mil
Arb: Gross, Nelson, Balfour, Riggans, Garza, Howell, Upton, Cormier, Bartlett, Navarro
If you figure each gets ~1 million, that's 10 million - and bear in mind we know Riggans won't get 1 million (if he's even tendered), instead I'm assuming combined they receive around 10 million, with more going to some than others, obviously. That leaves at most five million to add a catcher, reserve infielder, and maybe another pen arm. I'm also assuming the team doesn't decide to ship out a big contract and tighten the reigns a bit due to attendance.
---
Again, this is more for the purposes of proving an overview than rosterbation.
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Don't you think it likely
or at least a strong possibility that Davis is in the rotation, either in that #5 spot or as a replacement for Kazmir? At least as likely as Joyce being the right fielder?
I also think that Brignac gets his chance in 2010, very possibly as the regular SS.
I'm with you on this
Davis is just annihilating AAA at this point. It wouldn’t be a stretch, IMO, to say that he has more of a right to be in the rotation right now than Price does.
Davis is beating AAA but he does not have more of a right to be in the bigs than Price.
by Erik Hahmann on Jul 10, 2009 10:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They're the same age
And Davis has put up better numbers for a longer period of time. Both at AA and AAA. I understand the expectations for Price are higher, as is his ceiling, but if he wasn’t here Davis would already be in the rotation no questions asked.
Not sure I agree with this.
Price dominated in the SEC. Then he dominated every level until he was called up where he was diminat out of the BP. Davis’s numbers in AA were fine, but not particularly good at AA last year. He is having a nice rebound year, and he will move up prospect lists.
Eh,
I don’t know what to say about Davis’ stint in AA last year, but whatever the problem was his numbers seemed to normalize once he made the jump to AAA. Compare his 07 season at Montgomery with his 08 season in Durham and the stats are pretty similar.
Also, is dominating the SEC more impressive than dominating high-A ball?
No. Not really.
He then went and dominated every level in the minors last year. Some struggles in AAA. He was a better pitcher last year, and he is a better pitcher this year. He also is LH.
Well sure,
Price was also older than Davis when he tackled Vero Beach. And Daivs pitched better at AA at a younger age. Again I have no excuse for what happened to him last year, but considering what he did in AAA after “struggling” earlier in the year, I don’t think you can knock him much for it.
I’m not saying Davis should be up and Price should still be in Durham, not definitively. I’m just saying the argument can be made.
I would think the Rays would follow suite with Davis as they did with Price.
And use spring training to see whether he’s ready. If so, I suppose there’s a good chance he joins the rotation, but I’m guessing he’ll have reasons for additional seasoning.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man
How I would love to see the Heater comments if we moved Barty and let Pena walk in back-to-back years.
620 would blow up for weeks with people saying how the little Wall Street Jews don’t know how to run a baseball team or build a fan base.
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 10, 2009 8:25 AM EDT reply actions
Barty won't bring as much as you think
You think every other team doesn’t have these OPS stats on him?
Have they heard about his MVP?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I take it Niemann was traded?
And whats the word on Shouse? He will turn 41 this season. I’m not sure if he will be back. Heres a vote for Talbot getting a shot out of the pen.
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Friedman has a knack of finding those diamonds in the rough
I’m sure he’ll be at it again
The pen is an ever revolving entity
I totally agree.
When you’re good at finding diamonds, you need to make sure you have holes to put them. That means not filling up potential holes long term unless the value is great. Bullpen is a great diamond/hole location. So is rotation depth. So is a corner outfield spot and a 1B/DH spot.
Given whatever payroll the Rays will have, they should focus it on really good players at 2B/3B/SS/CF/CA/RForLF and maybe a SP spot or two. Then you take the diamonds/hole approach (aka the spaghetti on the wall approach). Great things for the Rays is that they have some really sticky spaghetti in the farm system and a great executive chef.
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I'm hungry now
Did you ever get my e-mail last week?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically you are saying that there is no way the Rays sign Crawford?
I disagree with you there. I think it is possible. Very unlikely. I also agree with your assessment that picks aren’t that bad. I don’t think we need to be blown out of the Gulf of Mexico with a trade offer though.
Drafting well in baseball is still a longshot
Don’t forget the names of Townsend, White, Brazelton and others and they wee top ten picks or near there
Sandwich picks come between rounds
this isn’t the NFL where a player is ready to contribute after being drafted
Townsend was never a good pick.
And drafting Brazelton was no different than drafting Tim Couch, if you wanna bring the NFL into this. You win some you lose some and you completely screw over a player’s career by rushing him sometimes.
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing
Raymondo was right on point there.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You may be right,
but cannot use Townsend as an example. He was a budget pick because of the impending ownership change. Everyone pretty much agreed it was a terrible choice and that more worthy players such as Maybin, Bruce and McCutchen were available. In fact, if you include Pelfrey, those were the next 4 picks.
not a good idea
cuz then all you got is potential that only stays until free agency. ever read moneyball? kind of like that, losing giambi and damon
I hope you are wearing an anal bumcover for this little nugget.
You do know that Damon came up a Royal right?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 11, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Theres a track record of better success with the picks vs the prospect deals
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
RJ posted a link to a thorough study awhile back with plenty of examples.
Link again please?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
.
http://ussmariner.com/2007/06/20/letting-ichiro-leave-for-nothing/
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
And while i'll take your word for it
how many of those picks ever put up the numbers of the player who walked?
How many of the prospects did?
Thats the analysis prospects vs picks. The player is usually not an option.
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Found it
http://ussmariner.com/2007/06/20/letting-ichiro-leave-for-nothing/
You even commented in the thread.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 10, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
*The thread where the link was posted
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 10, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
His knees + the Trop turf != a long-term winning combination
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
What would suck is if someone signs him and another player that is rated higher than CC.
Then we would get screwed out of a 1st round pick like the Brewers and Jays this past off-season.
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 10, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Crawford should get $15M+ on the free agent market.
Definitely not worth it to the Rays, who have a Gabe platoon already working, and Joyce and Desmond nearly ready.
I’d make it a point to trade CC this off-season, coming off a peak season and with a very nice 2010 price tag for his skills. The return should be pretty darn good, probably providing at least as much of a value upgrade in 2010 (both in direct talent and payroll savings) as they’d lose dropping from CC to Joyce/Jennings, plus more long-term value.
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Pray that he hits like in the past. If he qualifies for Type-A status and the Rays can cash in, they could have seven first/supplemental round picks in the 2011 draft. That would be spectacular.
The biggest concern I’d have there is signing them all. I guess you could try to sign as many as you can, and then if you can’t just take safer plays the following year.
yes!!!!!!!!! finally someome smart!!!!!
it would cost over 10 million signing all those players, which only a few will experience success in the bigs, probably incomparable to resigning Crawford and maintaining production
If we're trading all these integral pieces
we better find replacements
I see little on the horizon
to assume Jennings (still st AA) will be another Carl Crawford, is a real reach
We have only Matt Joyce as a power prospect in the minors (above AA)
To replace stars (Pena, Crawford and Bartlett) yes Barty is a star this year
with MLB average players, won’t cut it v Yankees and Sox
Go ahead and break out the MVP card so everyone can tell you why you're wrong and how Topkin is a damn tool.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Dude get it straight...
Topkin was smart with givin JB the MVP cuz his defense is top notch. Now his batting average is 3rd in the al (once he qualifies) and his speed adds nicely to his near .500 avg w/ runners in scoring position. Beside, you want BRIGNAC to replace him. Yeah, well, Brignacs numbers are good in the minors but he stunk up the joint in the majors. His batting stance reduces power and leaves him vulnerable to breaking pitches. A whole lot of them.
Actually, his defense was the worst it had been in three years: +2.1
Certainly not terrible, but if we’re going to be giving out awards for empty batting averages and above average defensive play, we might want to re-evaluate our considerations. There’s no question Bartlett was a valuable player in 2008, but to put him ahead of Pena, Longoria, Upton or any of the pitchers is simply having a storyline to push.
Obviously, you could make a case for Bartlett this year.
Bartlett was below average last year.
That isn’t his true talent level, and neither is this year, but he wasn’t great.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It depends.
I’d assume there is an exchange of talent somehow. From the loss we may see some gains (the ability to trade for a guy with a bigger contract, perhaps). The time may well come where we decide to move more pitching depth for bats. We’ll see, but 1st base isn’t a hard position to fill, nor is LF.
we still have OF to fill in
Fernando Perez could fill in LF or a combo of him and Gross until Jennings is ready, along with Joyce. The Rays may have to decide on who’s worth more to them between Bartlett and Crawford. I think they could keep one, but probably both. Then again, if they can trade Kazmir, Burrell also comes off the books next year—that’s 16 mil combined salary that can be used elsewhere, although Upton and others are going to cost more as well.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If Niemann can net a catcher
then trade Bartlett to help resign CC, and then Joyce can replace Burrell at DH when Jennings comes up. All that is needed is to figure out what to do at 1B after Pena next year. Perhaps a Kazmir trade can give the Rays a good 1B prospect…perhaps Chris Davis?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
No Chris Davis please, anyone can play first
Aybar and Zobot come to mind.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm hoping Davis slows his K's
and becomes the guy everyone thought he’d be. Aybar at 1B i a thought. But I can’t see how C Davis isn’t close to being a Pena clone, if he had the D.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He strikes out 50% of the time
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
My bad 44.2 Los is 36%
The huge difference is the fact that Davis doesn’t walk. 6% vs Los at 16%
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
give Davis a little time
so he isn’t lighting it up right away? It’s his first year. He’s known for his hack-away tendancies, but he’s not this bad either. Pena wasn’t exactly good right out of the gate either. I’m just saying there’s some talent there to work with. I’d say Justin Smoak, but there’s no way texas trades him.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
So you give him another 2 years to learn how to take a walk so that he is finally balling
just as he is hitting arbitration?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
he may or may not be a right fit
let him at least get in his first full season and see if he improves any in the 2nd half of the year. IF he still looks just as helpless at the plate, well, then he’s not fitting what the Rays need because they can’t sacrifice wins for development. Unless he continues to get his work in the minors for another year.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
His K-rate has been HUGE at every level.
I really do worry about his ability to make enough contact at the big league level.
Question
Would we move BJ to left and place DJ in center? DJ would be more valuable in center than in left, and that’s why I make this suggestion.
Move BJ to right, Joyce to left
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
...Well, he has plus patience so we can cross that comparison off right away.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
why? does cc hit for a lot of power?
he hits for a .300 average, good OBP, can steal a lot of bases…does that sound like anyone you know?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
His power would be average as a corner-outfielder. put him in center, and his power should be above-average.
I’m just saying I’d rather have him in center than in a corner.
i hear ou
but we don’t need to worry about power in leftfield because we haven’t worried about that stat for the last 7 years or so. It’s a moot point. This offense is built on good OBP and speed. He can do both of those things. Personally I’d love to see an outfield of CC-Upton-Jennings.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He has 7 as a 22 YO in AA in 85 games.
That’s about 15 for a full season. He also has 21 2B and 7 3B. He doesn’t have much baseball experience compared to the guys he’s playing against. Players add power as they age. For reference sake, Upton only had more than 15 HRs once in his minor league career. I think we’d all consider him a ~20 HR guy.
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
BJ is NOT a corner outfielder. He plays shallow and lets his speed take him to the wall, but remember, he started as a shortstop. He was not made for LF or RF because he doesn’t have the same defensive mind for those positions. He needs to stay in center. Also, look at what Crawford does and Bj would just struggle doing that. He’s at his best with crawford in left
Playing a corner outfield position is easier than playing centerfield.
There is no “defensive mind” for a corner outfield compared to center field.
if he can at least hold up with what he's doing now for the rest of the year
a decent catching prospect or MLB-ready catcher sounds great. There have already been discussions on this site about the Angel’s Mike Napoli. It also depends what the Rays do with Reid Brignac and Jason Bartlett. That has to be the first answer this offseason. Whoever of those two they trade, whatever they bring back in return will answer what they are still looking for in regards to Niemann.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
can Brignac sit in the minors again next year or will he be out of options?
by walkoffwalk on Jul 10, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Between Bartlett and Brignac
For some reason, I’d rather have Bartlett stay over Brignac
$$$$$$$
$
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
since guys like Brignac are extremely few in quantity
having a high-end, MLB-ready SS prospect is golden. With baseball shifting to prospect heavy, having a guy like Brignac could bring a lot more in trade than Bartlett. But it depends how much Bartlett would cost in a multi-year deal and what exactly brignac could bring in a trade. If you sign Barty to a 4 year deal, I’d assume Beckham would be ready by then.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
What would Barty bring back? 2-3 decent prospects with good upside? what about some good prospects in the lower levels?
with this nucleus the Rays also have to try to win now while their window is open
Brignac’s value is higher, but it all depends on what someone is willing to pay. If the Rays have to choose between trying to keep Bartlett or Crawford, it’d be sweet if CC could stay and try to be a lifetime Ray.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I would think Barty to the Giants for Villalona and Neal would require some thought.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd do a Brignac and Niemann for Posey deal
but I don’t see any way they’d get rid of Posey. Perhaps for Sandoval?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would they trade Posey?
It’s unrealistic to think that a team would trade a prospect that is on the verge of baller status. Keep Briggy, distract Sabes with MVB, rape their system for 2 bats that are 3-4 years away. We need to fundamentally restock our system with bats, not just get a guy that is ready to play tomorrow. We have enough of that.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Thomas Neal is tearing up A-Ball, and we can possibly get Nick Noonan (good 2b prospect with good walk rates, just needs to raise his average) for Bartlett. If that’s the deal, then I’m all for it.
You're not very high on Villalona? or do you just think they won't let him go so easily?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Kids 19 and is holding his own in high A
Needs to learn to take a walk, but he sounds like a Pena clone to me.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Raw power is a valuable commodity
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Are no different than any other out*
- For the most part
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
i already said it was wishful thinking
there is probably no scenario of getting him from the Giants. Esp. when a guy like Napoli or someone else could be had for cheaper. But, we can’t just get guys for down the road. The Rays best chance to go for it all is now…that doesn’t mean sacrifice the future, but at the same time, you can’t keep building just for the future. IF there is any trade out there that can improve this team now without sacrificing the future, that has to be the way to go. But if the Rays already have in-house replacements at 1B (Aybar/Zobrist) and can get a decent catcher via Niemann, then yes, you can make a trade for needs down the line. But first you need to fill needs to compete now while you can. It’s a win-win when you can do both at the same time.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure why people think the Angels will just hand over Napoli
He’s a 2 WAR player at the ASG. That’s pretty freaking valuable and he’s just about to enter the typical prime. Sure he’s going to make some loot in a year or 2, but who’s in a better position to pay him that money Rays or Angels?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
if the Angels can get something decent for him
it was mentioned in an article earlier this year that they were looking at Niemann and Napoli was mentioned as being available. They have Mathis already, so it is a position of depth. It will probably take more than Niemann to get him, and it will depend how much more. But Niemann, if considered to have potential and a decent starter, who is also under control for a good amount of cheap seasons, vs. a catcher in arbitration…it does make sense.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Not a very good near MLB ready Catcher.
How many of those even are out there? Posey?
Someone brought this up this week, but I freaking love the idea….. Napoli. What do we do to get this done? Niemann and who else? Ruggiano? If they have another pitcher out for a bit, could they bite on Niemann and maybe Carlos Hernandez?
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
i know RJ said the Rays don't regret taking T-Bex over Posey, but, man, i certainly wish we took Posey (for now).
by walkoffwalk on Jul 10, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't there a bonus issue?
Wasn’t Beckham a relatively easy sign where Posey had some pretty high demands? If the Rays scouts had them pretty close then it makes sense.
Per Cot's
Buster Posey c
2009
* drafted 2008 (1-5) (Florida State)
* signed 8/15/08, $6.2M signing bonus (record at signing)
* agents: Jeff Berry, Casey Close
* ML service:
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Per Cot's
Tim Beckham ss
2009
* drafted 2008 (1-1) (Griffin HS, Ga.)
* signed 6/08, $6.15M signing bonus
* agent: Greg Genske
* ML service: 0.000
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
So while Posey said he wanted more
he took essentially the same amount as Becks. Knowing that figure now, do you think the FO would have signed Posey
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
Except he would have wanted more if he was drafted #1.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
They didn't not draft him because of signability.
They didn’t draft him because the scouts felt Beckham was better.
I'd take that with a grain of salt...
Would the scouts or Rays every say otherwise?
I don’t doubt they were close, of maybe Beckham was ahead, but a lot seemed to change once Posey through out that high number.
Why would something change last year?
We’ve had a Top-3 pick since the AFRO took over (excluding 2005 due to extenuating circumstances) and they haven’t taken a signability guy yet, why would things change in 08’? Doesn’t make sense.
In 06’ Friedman claimed Longoria was #1 on their board, I called BS, he appeared to be a signability pick. I was wrong. Although from what I’ve read, Friedman wanted to draft Lincecum that year, he deferred to the scouts (this is a trend).
07’ was obviously Price and there wasn’t a whole lot of debate, although again, Friedman apparently wanted Wieters, he again deferred to the scouts.
08’ Beckham was a legitimate Top-3 guy with no real consensus on who the #1 guy was. Friedman apparently wanted Posey, but deferred to the scouts.
Tools Whore
Why? He wouldn't be in the majors.
If you want to regret a pick, regret not taking Wieters.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Price just outpitched supposedly best major league pitcher Roy Halladay. And the way he owned in the playoffs, man that guy is awesome. And what is weiters doing? O right, a measly 2.8 Value Over Replacement Player
Before "out pitching" Halladay, Price had been unable to get out of the 2nd inning against the Texas Rangers.
If we’re going by VORP (a terribly out dated stats), David Price as racked up an outstanding -1.1!
So, if we’re going off performance based on a small time in the majors, Price is a worse player than Wieters.
I like this guy Bryan Anderson in St. Louis
Check him out. Good walk rates. Young guy in AAA.
Any thoughts?
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Hes walking about 10% of the time through him ML career.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
walk rates arent everything. Actually they’re nothing, its the assumption that the walking player see mor pitches per at bat.
32 walks in 235 AB in his AAA time last year
Seems to fit the rays liking.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
Navi still owns
He just spends more of his energy calling up some great games. Yeah, his ab’s make me sad, but only sometimes, he still can smack the ball with authority
I'm at a loss for words
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Navi was quite possibly the worst regular in baseball until he started recently hitting the ball.
His plate discipline has been awful.
As for calling games, it’s impossible to know where his influence begins and ends – at the end of the day, the pitcher has final say on what he throws and it’s up to him to locate it.
CALL HIM UP RIGHT NOW
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 10, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll look forward to him in 2014
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
BUT HIS NUMBERS ARE BETTER THAN NAVI'S
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Indians are the team with a surplus of catchers
and i don’t mean Shoppach
Maybe we could trade them Navarro for a reliever
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I found an even better catcher. He calls great games to make up for his still productive offense
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7276/situational;_ylt=AgcX1JdGkjOGrZ4tm4fldTuFCLcF
He’s only 25 and right under our noses. Come on, it’s not worth trading someone to replace navi because navi works best on the part you dont pay attention to because your just too lazy to. Lets keep navi.
You are seriously a fucking retard
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 11, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, Navi's 224 batting average is an improvement upon his 224 batting average?!
HOLY SHIT, THAT’S METAPHYSICS
Wait, how sure are you that we have meloan up next year?
Wouldn’t it be a bit safer to bring up dale thayer? or do we need a fireballin ’spect up in the pen?
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
Tyler Flowers
Dude’s hitting .301/.439/.537 with 12 homers and a decent walk rate in AA. What could we give the White Sox so that we can have him?
Practically, anything
they need a lot of help to get to being a top 5 team in the AL.
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
Maybe we could trade them Jim Hickey
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Niemann, Aki, and a PTBNL (a lesser prospect)
Does that get the job done?
The Aki
thing might fly if they need some immediate help over at 2B, Niemann- not so much
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
Aki can play 3B quite well, he would still be there for us if we didn't have some baller over there already
That flexibility is what they need more than a stud.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of teams (well maybe not the Mets) are starting to realize how important it is to have depth on your roster.
If you can get a guy like Aki, that you can use at multiple spots to start or give guys a day off or, most importantly, to come in when a guy gets hurt, then your entire team is that much better. How many teams, do you think, envy us for having guys like Zobrist, Aybar, and one of the Gabes, able to play multiple positions and fill in?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemann does have value
cheap seasons, can at least do an adequate job as a late starter, this allows a team to use its resources elsewhere. That does have value.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
I think he gets better by next year as well.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
So list of FA in free agency 2009-10:
Catchers: Not many, Gregg Zaun and Ivan Rodriguez stick out, possible- rod barajas or victor martinez
1B: Nick Johnson, Carlos Delgado- other than that none
Other INF: Marco Scutaro, Chone Figgins, Adrian Beltre, possible- Melvin mora
Closers/Relievers- Rafael Soriano (depends on this year though), Ryan Franklin, Jose Valverde, and some other possibles.
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
1B - Ben Zobrist.
2nd base – Cajun
SS – Barty
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think hes worth more as a 2b.
His defense has seemed pretty good there. But Aybar is a good swingman and the cajun should be up next year.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe at RF
I dont know. hes a nice problem to have.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 10, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Would the team be better with Zobrist at second...
And another bat in place of Pena at first?
Why move Zobrist just to get Brignac in the lineup if it doesn’t make the team better.
Right, Most of Brigs value is his defensive ability at SS. A bigger bat at 1B with Zo at second is better maximization
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
It depends.
If Briggy is 10 in the field, and Zo is only even, then it may be wise to move Zo. The balance is the key: what is greater Zob’s batglove at first + Brigs bat+glove or the new bat+glove?
Also...
An IF of Zob, Briggy, Longo, and Bartlett would be the best IF defensively in baseball by far. BY FAR.
He certainly seems to be +5 at worst...
and maybe closer to +10. This makes him an incredibley valuable player. I don’t think he’s quite as good of a hitter as he’s been this year, but either way he’d be a stud. Him at 2B is almost Utleyian.
And the flexibility!
If an OF injury were to occur, he could switch positions. He was showing positive signs in RF as well early in the year. If Joyce were to struggle mightily or get hurt, you could then iave the flexibility to put ZO in the OF and plug in Waybar or Brigs
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Anybody know anything about Logan Forsythe?
LINK
Frickin A that’s some nice rates.
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Saw much of his college career
He really struggled at the plate as a college freshman; an oft-repeated fan rumor had it he blamed his hitting coach for trying to completely change his approach at the plate in an effort to develop more power. He has always been more of a line-drive hitter as opposed to the usual corner power hitter; it looks like other than the Cali League this is still an issue.
At any rate, he survived some relatively minor foot and hammy issues to finish his college career as co-first-team All-SEC along with Pedro Alvarez at 3B. The two were previously teammates on Team USA. The presence of Alvarez resulted in Forsythe moving to the outfield where he played well, so he has defensive versatility going for him in addition to the raves he receives for his defense at 3B.
Due to his versatility and patience and under-developed power, you could have made the argument he is a higher-upside version of Zobrist, but that was before Ben transformed into a deity. I’m drawing a blank as to an apt comparison.
Thanks RATW
I just saw his line at high A, wow what else could you want? Looks like at AA his power has slowed, but I’m going to keep an eye on him. The Padres have no reason to trade free talent at this time, in fact, they would seem to be more likely to move an Adrian Gonzalez type guy. How good would he look in the baby blues? He can step right in and take Los’s spot and money after next year. He’s gonna make mad loot on the open market.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 11, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ooh Fun
Time to chat with selig before ASG.
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
I say we bowl Milwaukee over for Prince Fielder
Jason McEachern tracker: 17 ip 11 h 2 er 0 bb 15 so 1.06 ERA
www.raysprospects.com
(And then sign-him long-term)
Obviously won’t happen, but still.
Jason McEachern tracker: 17 ip 11 h 2 er 0 bb 15 so 1.06 ERA
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 10, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well it would only be a one-year rental, so no
He’s a FA after 2010
Jason McEachern tracker: 17 ip 11 h 2 er 0 bb 15 so 1.06 ERA
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do people think the Angels would deal Napoli
and replace him with Mathis?
I have read that they don’t like Napoli’s defense while Mathis is good behind the plate. I do not know if that is true.
But in 4 seasons Napoli has received 1087 PAs and responded with a line of .256/.364/.492 That is pretty good for a catcher. His OPS+ is 121. This year he has 10 home runs (he hit 20 last year) and a line of .284/.373/.490 with 26 BBs in 225 PAs. He is 27.
In 5 seasons, Mathis has 735 PAs and a line of .196/.275/.320. His OPS+ is 55. You have to be a pretty spectacular defensive catcher to be trusted with a full time job given that offense. His line this year in 146 PAs is .198/.287/.294 with 3 home runs and 13 BBs. He is 26.
So both catchers are hitting pretty close to their career average this year. Why in the world would LA deal Napoli? Do they have a hot shot in AAA?
it was mentioned earlier this month
that the Angels were willing to consider him in a trade, along with many others. Jason Stark reported it earlier this month. Most of this speculation comes from this report, along with the fact that he’s in arbitration and they could plug in someone else. Napoli carries more trade value than Mathis. Thus he’s the most likely to be moved, esp. if they prefer Mathis’ defense, and if Napoli can get them the pitching they desperately need.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 10, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
All sorts of speculation is baseless.
I really think this is, too. Unless of course The Other Genuis hates him. We all know how Genuis Managers like to throw their weight around.
Well, I suppose it is possible,
but it just seems unlikely. They may like Mathis’ defense, but I can’t see any way they sacrifice that much offense for it. Unless they have some other catcher to plug in, or unless it is some sort of personality issue, it makes little sense to weaken a lineup spot that badly.
Of course it is possible he is simply a terrible defensive catcher (I have no idea), but if so, why has he gotten so much more playing time than Mathis and why would the Rays want him to catch?
Just deaming really.
I can’t see why they would want to deal him with their payroll flexibility. When I see a OPS+ of 121 from the 1, I want it.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
I still like the idea of trading C.C.
letting Zo start in LF and Briggy/Aybar platoon at 2B. Joyce/Perez platoon in RF.
I’m not a big Jaso fan so I’d like to see us try to net a C in a deal for either Niemann, or in a C.C. deal.
someone brought up Talbot earlier, not sure how much help he will be, he is hurt and could be out awhile and that could hurt his chances going into next year. I do think Davis will be ready and pending a suprise trade (Kazmir) the rotation should be. Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price, Davis. and should be one of the best in baseball
I HATE platooning young players.
Other than that I agree. Let Aybar play a lot all over, and then Nando is just a regular 4th OF. No platooning the young guys.
I like the idea of a Joyce Nando platoon
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy and I thought we never talk about trades
McDonald says the Rays also phoned the Blue Jays. It’s unlikely the Rays would make a play for Halladay, as they have little money to spend. However, as Marc Lancaster of the Tampa Tribune reports, they likely won’t have to make in-season payroll cuts.
From here
Congrats to Longoria, Bartlett, Zobrist, and Crawford. Vote for Pena!
so what if we trade Kaz and spects?
Don’t raise payroll much and we would have Doc next year also then hes Type A
plus its Roy fucking Halladay
Congrats to Longoria, Bartlett, Zobrist, and Crawford. Vote for Pena!
ugh. losing carlos AND bartlett is certainly not going to help this team pad its win column numbers.
i’m just not excited about brignac. and while i understand bat speed, etc. diminish with age, some sluggers are able to keep it going through their mid-30s.
i can’t see how this team as reconstituted in 2010 will be in a position to win the division if we say “BUH BYE!” to good players. oh and garza’s not going to hang around forever either. nor upton.
We'll be fine.
The new guys won’t bring star power, but then again, Bartlett/Pena didn’t bring star power when they arrived either. In fact, most people seemed pissed that Pena was playing over Ty Wigginton of all people.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Choate not on the returning bullpen list
He’s been pretty solid at his job, more so than Shouse was during his time and he’s probably got more years left in him
So in 2010
CF B.J Upton R
LF Carl Crawford L (10 Mil)
3B Evan Longoria R (950K)
1B Carlos Pena L (10 Mil)
2B Ben Zobrist S
DH Pat Burrell R (9 Mil)
RF Matt Joyce L
SS Jason Bartlett R (3.5 Mil? 4?)
C Someone…..ugh switch hitter? lefty?
Bench:
Willy Aybar (1.3 Mil)
Fernando Perez
Shawn Riggans
Reid Brignac
SP
1. James Shields R (2.5 Mil)
2. Scott Kazmir L (we have to split the lefties and I think we go 1 more year with these front 2) (8 Mil)
3. Matt Garza R
4. David Price L (1 Mil)
5. Wade Davis R
Bullpen
Jeff Niemann R
Dan Wheeler R (3.5 Mil)
Andy Sonnanstine? R
Randy Choate (keep him for those lefties) L
Lance Cormier R (can we plz keep him?) (1 Mil? 1.5?)
Joe Nelson R (Has he earned a raise in arby/)
The Freezer L (No ASG, may be the best RP, 2 Mil?)
I don’t know what happens to Navi or Gross but as for the rest no option picked up on Aki, Shouse….Bradford and Percy walk away.
Let’s recap
54 mil with arby numbers very possibly changing and a chance at trading away Barty
In 2011, No Pena, PTB, Wheeler, or CC clearing 33 mil
Jennings for CC
McGee for Wheeler
Aybar for Pena
Brignac to 2B, Zobrist for PTB
That is a cheap, very talented team
Congrats to Longoria, Bartlett, Zobrist, and Crawford. Vote for Pena!
yeah but...
lets use that money to resign CC no matter what because he is so vital to this team, especially his ability to get an infield single, then steal secend, even third, which allows longo to drive him in easily
Also, Desmond Jennings.
If you like stolen bases and fast men in the corner outfield, you might like him.
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