Rays Bullpen Ends First Half On A Sour Note

by Tommy Rancel on Jul 12, 2009 5:01 PM EDT

After a month or so of near flawless performances from the Rays bullpen, they failed in back to back games. The Oakland A's scored seven unanswered runs today and the Rays took a 7-3 loss after leading 3-0. After six shutout innings, the Rays finally put three runs on the board thanks to Pat Burrell's two run double. The three runs seemed to be all James Shields would need as "Big Game" was cruising through the first six innings. However, Shields would give up a hit and a walk in the seventh inning and was taken out after just 89 pitches.

Joe Maddon decided to give the ball to Dan Wheeler a day after Wheeler was touched up a bit. Bob Geren countered with Jack Cust off the bench and his move paid off. Cust laced an RBI single and the rout was on. Groundball specialists Randy Choate and Chad Bradford would each give up a hit and after a four run seventh inning the A's had taken the lead for good.

Defacto Closer J.P. Howell had a rough outing allowing three runs on four hits including a home run. Howell and the Rays were on the wrong side of a bad call which had a helping hand in both of the A's eight inning runs. Flat out the Rays bullpen didn't get the job done yesterday or today and the team now goes into the All-Star break on a two game losing streak. On a good note, Pat Burrell seems to have found a bit of his power stroke and is now driving the ball with authority. He came within inches of a home run and had two doubles on the day.

The Rays are now 6.5 back of first place and will finish no better than 3.5 games back of the wildcard headed into the break. I know it is just two games, but a few losses like this out of the break could have the Rays playing the role of sellers come July 31st.

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this sucks

by daveh33 on Jul 12, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions

Two years in a row, we limped into the ASB

Last year 3-7

This year 4-6

Bottom line, We just don’t win when we can’t score more than three runs

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions

Isn't it a little early for chicken little?

I mean, I agree that there are real problems, but to be where we are with 73 games left I feel pretty decent considering where we are, the players (and who are having trouble), and how close most of the losses have been.

What I don’t like is that coincidentally every time the Rays get hot the Yankees and Red Sox seem like they can’t lose. I just hope the Rays go on a good run after the ASB and the Sox and Yankees come out cold.

I’m just gonna wait to see how we come out of the ASB before I get concerned.

I could be wrong though

by staplemaniac on Jul 13, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Slurp slurp

by matthan on Jul 12, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Excluding Niemann's start

The bullpen melted down everyday in the home stand basically. Barely escaped in Price’s start, and got defensive help in Shields’ TOR one, but they let 3 leads get away.

Bullpen stats from the 6(5 really) games:
13 IP, 25H, 11ER, 3BB, 14K, and the stranded rate(which I was too lazy to find) was not very good(probably like 50% estimation)

by Transplanted on Jul 12, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions

Does this team Upton or what?

In his last ten games, in which the team is 4-6, he has more than twice as many K’s as hits (15-7) and only two XBH

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

He looks pretty bad right now.

But wasn’t there some sort of thread recently where he was proclaimed as, “back”?

Bitten by small sample size!!!

by plasticman on Jul 12, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you guys fucking serious?

BJ was 3-5 LITERALLY TWO GAMES AGO. He hit 324/395/562 through the month of July.

by Suttree on Jul 12, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions

How is that possible?

1-It’s July 12

2- In his last ten games he has 7 hits in 40 AB with 15 K’s and 2 XBH

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's Upton's July--read it and get back to me

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5970

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions

He meant for the month of June

by RATW on Jul 12, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, thanks.

Sometimes I just get so angry I my brain collapses upon myself.

No, Upton hasn’t played consistently well over the last two weeks, but I don’t know why he gets shit on when Longoria has done jack shit over the last month… or when he gets shit after a game in which we lose because our bullpen can’t hold things together.

by Suttree on Jul 12, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions

If you read my post it

was more of how important Upton is to the offense, not to slam him

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade

Upton has sucked lately. So has Longoria. It is what it is. That doesn’t mean that they suck overall. Just lately they’ve been playing poorly.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions

No, there's not.

But, there’s a difference between recognizing poor performance and casually blaming performance on one person.

Equating Upton’s failure with team success is lazy and scape goating. Is the offense less impressive when he’s not playing well? Of course, but we were just fine for the first two months when he was awful. The losses have had entirely more to do with poor bullpen performances.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Also, calling a spade a spade... might want to avoid using that phrase when talking about BJ.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Why is that?

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Spade, racial epithet?

It’s a bad joke.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions

You shouldn't be so racially sensitive

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

It makes it difficult to blend in with the local flavor.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions

And CC?

Who’s hitting .235/.278/.265 in July…

by tallyray on Jul 13, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes, but that 3 hit game is in July and w/o it he has 4 hits for the month

by Raymondo on Jul 12, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Has anyone brought up why the bullpen was called on so quickly?

Be upset with the bullpen all you want, but Maddon taking out Shields because, heaven forbid, he did not have a perfect inning, was piss poor. You’ve got Shields vs. Davis, and instead you opt for Blunder Dan vs. Cust, and you can’t go back to Shields anymore.

Classic overmanaging and trying to be too smart. Let your best pitchers pitch. Shields was fine, and he should be pissed off tonight.

by Bobby Fenton on Jul 12, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions

Shields was starting to meltdown as he had a 1-2 count on Powell & lost him, so taking him out was good

But the one thing that should’ve been done differently was let Cust be ready to hit AND THEN go to Choate to face Cust, but Wheeler screwed himself over by falling 3-0 to Cust. Didn’t matter though, the whole bullpen was in meltdown mode during this homestand as they did it 4 times(3 Blown “saves”), almost a 5th(another BS), so excluding Niemann’s CGSO-it was ugly

by Transplanted on Jul 12, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions

You can't yank your #1 starter the first time he loses a hitter

That is just ridiculous. He was at 88 pitches. The next hitter was not a poor matchup. If anything it the time to go send Hickey out or go talk to Shields to settle him down.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions

You can when you think the bullpen is a better matchup...

The flaw isn’t removing Shields, it’s who he replaced him with. Dan Wheeler would probably be the last player that should be called on in that situation.

by tallyray on Jul 13, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions

The manager is supposed to have foresight

Clearly they would PH Cust against Wheeler. Maddon should have known that.

So if he was going to bring Wheeler in he would need to have Choate ready for Cust. That is the wise thing to do.

Then at that point it becomes would you rather have used Wheeler, and had Choate v Cust or saved both pitchers and had a Shields v Davis.

I’d take Shields v Davis, but that is much closer than what really happened. Either way those were all Maddons choices. He essentially chose the worst matchup out of the three.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Or perhaps Maddon thought the A's manager was like himself

You know by waiting to use one of their better offensive players for the 9th inning once the game is blown open in a very low leverage situation….rather than using him in the most opportune time a couple innings earlier in a high leverage situation….

So in that respect I could see why Maddon would fail to see that they’d PH Cust.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Examples?

I don’t see where Maddon makes this mistake that often. His major flaw in terms of substitutes is that when he tells a player they have an off day he tends to stick to that.

by tallyray on Jul 13, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Heh. You missed the GDT firebomb.

I agree with you, but matthan is correct: pulling out Shieldsy that early is a little skeptical, particularly to bring in Wheeler. If you value that moment so much that you’re not going to let James Shields work his way out of it, then you have Howell ready and bring him in.

Maddon’s strengths outweigh the occasional blunder which you grade them compared to the rest of MLB – Tito and Girardi probably make less mistakes, but they’re also less proactive and managing a 65m team is different from managing a 160-180m team, particularly when it comes to the bullpen.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Right

I’m not totally opposed to yanking Shields as long as the new matchup is really good. However Wheeler v Cust is possibly the worst possible matchup for any of our relievers vs any of their hitters. Well ignoring Holliday.

His options were essentially Wheeler, Bradford, Choate, Howell, and Nelson.

If he puts in Wheeler, Bradford or Nelson odds are Cust will come in. The probably is highest with Wheeler though.

If he brings in Bradford or Nelson he is going to possibly get a matchup vs Davis or perhaps Cust. I’d prefer both of them vs Cust. However then he could yank either of them and put in Choate or Howell to face Cust. Far more favorable. Then he can use Wheeler in the 8th.

He could also bring in Choate to face Davis. That would have been better than Wheeler v Cust. Although frankly I’d rather him waste Nelson to get Cust and then bring in Choate to face Cust.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Also don't forget with the all star break coming up he could have really played batter to batter matchups

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

My guess was that Maddon essentially forgot about Cust

He just thought he was going to get Wheeler v Davis; which isn’t bad at all.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

As silly as it sounds, it's entirely possible.

I don’t find it shocking to think that a manager might simply forget things occasionally.

Fuck, I’m pretty sure Ron Gardenhire isn’t aware a game’s going on at times.

As poor a decision as it was, it’s not the reason we lost the game. It’d be really fascinating if at some point someone tried to see just how much impact a manager’s decision may have on scoring runs. Even coming out of that inning, the game was tied despite a particularly bad decision on the manager’s part.

Of course, that’d take a lot more time and effort than any of us have here, but I’m surprised BP hasn’t taken a shot at something like that.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

it was 4-3 after that inning

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jul 13, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions

also

we suck, lets move the team to montreal

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jul 13, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions

BITE ME

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

NOM NOM

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I think the best and really only way to do it

Would be to have some program that is able to process the win probability with all the possible managerial moves on both sides and then rate the managers that get closest to giving their team the best chance at winning. The problem is that it would take serious cpu processing power. For every play there are tons of different moves a manager could make and tons of different countermoves they could make; which of course changes the entire dyanmic of the game.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

It'd be hilarious if someone did it, because I'm convinced nearly every MLB manager would score poorly.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Overall he may be the best manager in the game

Arguing a managers overall skill is something that is really hard to do so I’m not going to touch it. All I can say is Maddon made huge blunders yesterday.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions

It wouldn't be the first time.

Say what you want about its success, but intentionally walking in a run against any batter not named Barry Bonds is foolish.

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

They proposed this scenario to Piniella on Sportscenter

Your team is up by two with the bases loaded in the ninth with 2 outs and Pujols is up. Piniella said you’d have to think about walking him, but of course he isn’t the smartest manager in baseball.

by nolesblogger on Jul 13, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, if it's Pujols, sure.

Especially if his “protection” is Mark DeRosa. =p

by Suttree on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

It won't be DeRosa for awhile

and Ludwick has been hitting well lately so it may never be

by nolesblogger on Jul 13, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Why wouldn't the A's pinch-hit with Cust regardless of whether it was Shields or Wheeler?

by RATW on Jul 13, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

I'd say the probability of it happening would be greater with Wheeler

That is the best Cust matchup. I could see him using Davis vs Shields and saving Cust for the 8th. Although it is definitely possible to use Cust there with any righty.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I was painting a nursery

Did Hickey never visit the mound? It does seem there were some managerial mistakes yesterday. I am a Maddon fan overall, but Shields has earned the right to at least surrender his first run when under 100 pitches.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jul 13, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions

At 88 pitches, after not giving up a run in the first 6 innings I think your #1 pitcher has the right to at least give his opinion

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Very disappointing series

The Yankees get swept by the Angels and the Rays only gained one game in the standings on them. And lost ground against the Red Sox, although that’s less important.

by untexan on Jul 12, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions

My bigger fear is that the poor road play & just plain bad baseball against all the bad teams

is rapidly closing the window for the Rays to get into the playoffs. Catching Boston is becoming virtually impossible now and falling behind NYY is not good as they’re a post-ASB team and if CC Sabathia goes on a run, could get very ugly and Texas is going to be a team that’s going to be a problem too.

Interesting note Record vs AL West this season so far, 7-12(18-13 & 10-11 in the other 2). Last Year 43-29, 20-18 and , Lost the same number of games this year as last year to the division, that’s not good.
On pace for 42-30, 18-20, 13-21, plus the 13-5 ITRL leaves a projected 86 wins. The West has to be won to win a chance in the playoffs.

by Transplanted on Jul 13, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Shitty series

but we still had a 4-2 homestand which isnt all that bad. Its things like getting swept by the Rangers that are going to kill us. Weve just been too streaky. We can get on that 6,7,or 8 game win streak, but then it always seems like we go right into a 3 or 4 game losing streak. And I believe that comes from the fact the starting pitching hasnt been quite as good as it needs to be. Garza needs to be a little more consistent and I think those streaks go away. We just need to have that stopper (Garza or Shieldsy, but Shields has done his part every night) to keep away those consecutive losses. Im not trying to pin all this on Garza or anything just saying I think when we get more consistent starting pitching were gonna go on that crazy ass 17 out of 20 game run.

by BJ the Bossman on Jul 13, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

The walk wasn't encouraging

But I would hardly call losing a guy at 1-2 for your first walk of the game a portent of a “meltdown”. It still didn’t justify the move, especially with a guy like Shields.

by Bobby Fenton on Jul 13, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions

yeah, but we've seen it happen before in other games where it didn't get better

It’s tough to tell as Shields isn’t a swing & miss guy, but is still good, especially this year & who would’ve thought the bullpen could keep up a run of messing up.

by Transplanted on Jul 13, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions

It is all about matchups

Shields at the pitch count, at how he was pitching, was a far better matchup than literally any other matchup that could have been created by yanking Shields. And frankly it was an infinitely better matchup than Wheeler vs Cust.

by matthan on Jul 13, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions

This weekend's theme: Attack of the Failpen

2009 Rays Baseball: Still Kings of the Sunshine State

by JMB on Jul 13, 2009 3:14 AM EDT reply actions

Clearly wasn't the best managerial move

but Maddon has been solid overall.

I personally think Shields should have been left in. Also I haven’t seen anyone mention this so far, but why not bring in JP. You should use your best relievers in the highest leverage situations. I guess the one problem with that is it would have taken pretty good foresight to have him warming up at that time.

Kap-rilla???

by Sveet on Jul 13, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

It looked catch-22 to me.

Pulling Shields out after surrendering a hit and a walk may not look smart. But he’s already given Shields the appropriate leash more then enough times this season by sending him out for the next inning after the team finally gives him the lead, only to see him piss it away. IMO, that was going to happen no matter what was done.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jul 13, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions