Revisiting the Randy Winn/Lou Piniella Trade

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM EDT

What we knew then...

Winn was about to be 29, about to get expensive, and over the last three years hit .283/.353/.418 while playing pretty solid defense. You could argue he was the Rays best or second best player right alongside Aubrey Huff. Naturally, the Rays traded him.

For a manager. *

This deal was ridiculous from the get go. Anyone who thought Piniella and Piniella alone would make a difference is severely overestimating managerial affects on performance.

What we know now...

Lou Piniella, local legend and probable savior. Here he was, home to rejuvenate a lowly franchise through the only means he knew how: kicking and screaming. Piniella was promised payroll raises by management ... and you know how the story ends. Piniella should be thankful LaMar and company didn't spend more money on the guys they wanted to. Although, Carl Everett running around the clubhouse while screaming about how those mother-effin' pterodactyls would fly before Piniella could talk to him like that would've been entertaining.

Winn went on and kept playing well, FanGraphs WAR has him at 4.5 wins his last season with the Rays, and 25 WAR total from 2002 until present day. Perpetually underrated, it's not a stretch to think Winn was a top five player in this franchise's history, and still is if you refuse to include active Rays.

I don't have much else to say, this move was never going to end well unless Piniella brought Mike Cameron, Carlos Guillen, and Freddy Garcia with him.

*To be fair, they also received Antonio Perez, a mildly interesting prospect who was later traded for Jason Romano. A "second baseman" that hadn't actually played second base in a while, and would later be released when they found out he couldn't play it at all. Yep, those are the D-Rays

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this series is like

How not to make trades 101

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by Tommy Rancel on Jul 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

Seems like we've ben replaced though

by the Nationals and Pirates. Oh well, we had a good run of selling off talent for pennies on the dollar

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by Buc Wild on Jul 14, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

You mean Royals

They don’t know how to make trades

"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey

by Gone Phishing on Jul 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the pirates FO isn't that bad actually

they could be decent within the next few seasons. If there’s a team that could be “the next Rays” I would look at them. I mean, other bad teams could get good before they do, but none with the futility of that team over the last dozen years.

I could be wrong though

by staplemaniac on Jul 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Good point on Cameron, Guillen, and Garcia

Cameron has failed a test and Guillen/Garcia are highly suspect. If they could have brought that kind of drug culture to a team managed by a win-at-all costs type manager, we may have gotten over the 75 wins that this franchise sorely needed.

SOSH AUCTION to K ALS

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 14, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions

It's doubtful Winn could have played on this year's team

The whole player for mangare concept should not have been allowed

by Raymondo on Jul 14, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

The rumor was that

Piniella wanted out after 2005 because he thought the team was just a few big dollar free agents away from contending in 2006 and the new administration wanted to start from scratch.

This was the core of the 2005 team.
C: Toby Hall
1B: Travis Lee
2B: Nick Green?
3B: Alex Gonzalez
SS: Julio Lugo
OF: Carl Crawford; Damon Hollins; Aubrey Huff
DH: Jonny Gomes

Among the bench players were Eduardo Perez, Josh Phelps, Alex Sanchez, Kevin Cash; Jorge Cantu

SP: Scott Kazmir; Mark Hendrickson; Casey Fossum; Doug Waechter; Hideo Nomo
RP: Danys Baez; Travis Harper; Lance Carter; Chad Orvella; Trever Miller; Jesus Colome; Joe Borowski

Other pitchers used included Rob Bell; Tim Corcoran; Jon Switzer; Dewon Brazelton; Seth McClung

There were other players on the team at various times, and some of the ones above were gone before the end of the year.

But how many free agents and how much money do you think it would have taken to make that team a contender?

If Pineilla really thought that team was near contending, he lacked judgment.

by bobr on Jul 14, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This is a post that cannot be argued with

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by FreeZorilla on Jul 14, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Whoa, whoa, wait.

You’re saying Damon Hollins… ISN’T an MLB-quality centerfielder?

by Suttree on Jul 14, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

WE WERE ONE PLAYER AWAY

EDWIN JACKSON

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by Buc Wild on Jul 14, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow. I mean...just wow.

Guys who aren’t in the majors as of now: Hall, Lee, Gonzalez, Hollins, Perez, Phelps, Sanchez, Cash, Fossum, Nomo, Harper, Carter, Orvella, Borowski.

So more then half the 2005 roster is either in the minors or out of baseball. That does not at all look like a team that had any chance of contending.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jul 14, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Ahhh..taking a stroll down memory minefield

2009 Rays Baseball: Still Kings of the Sunshine State

by JMB on Jul 14, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions

Well the scout that told Lamar and company that Romano played 2B did get fired.

Another great part of the story that I heard is how the determined Romano was their guy. He was really hot during spring training that year. It was a two week stretch where he just killed the ball, hitting better than he had ever hit in his entire life. So we not only traded for a guy that wasn’t an infielder and hadn’t been for years, but we did it based on a week long hot stretch in spring training (which at that time was several months prior). So all in all it was a very well reasoned deal.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Jul 14, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions

O GOD

Those were the days weren’t they…the days that you were embarrassed to be a Rays fan…I’m so glad we have a team we can be proud of now…win or lose this year..I’m proud to be a Rays fan.

by electriclott on Jul 14, 2009 8:12 PM EDT reply actions