Are Tampa Bay Rays Buyers Or Sellers At the 2009 MLB Trade Deadline?
The Rays made history in 2008. In 2009, history does not look to be on their side. Thanks to this nifty piece by DRB friend Jonah Keri, we can see the odds are stacked against the Rays making the playoffs this season. Going back to 1995, the first year of the wild card, he found out the percentages of what teams made the playoffs based on their standings at the all star break. Here are the numbers from Keri's article
|
GB |
% of Playoffs |
|
Divison Ldr |
69 |
|
2-5 |
47 |
|
5.5-8 |
13 |
|
8.5+ |
3.8 |
As you can see division leaders at the all star break make the playoffs almost 70% of the time. Now this is a bit skewed since the numbers include the wildcard. Conversely, the wildcard also affects teams like the San Francisco Giants, who are seven games out of first place, but would be a playoff team right now as the NL wildcard.
The Rays currently sit 6.5 games out of first place or in the 5.5-8 range. Since 1995, only three of 20 teams 6.5-7 games out of first place have made the playoffs (15%). The Rays are three back of the wild card, but have failed to make up any real ground on the Yankees. With the trade deadline 16 days away, the Rays are going to be faced with some tough decisions should the gap between them and the teams their chasing continue to remain stagnant.
Personally, I think if the Rays are three games or less behind the wild card around July 31st then we should look to add rather than sell. However, if they aren't able to make up ground out of the break then we could see a dramatic roster change should the Rays choose to be "sellers." Now I use the term sellers, but I don't mean moving James Shields and his team friendly contract. We all know that there is going to be some turnover from the 2009 roster to the 2010 roster; payroll dictates that much. And we all know the names out there that make the most sense. The Rays have a handful of very desirable and very valuable chips most notably Carl Crawford. I know people will say Scott Kazmir, but coming off an injury Kaz's value is lower than it should be. I think we would be better suited keeping Kazmir and explore something in the off-season if anything
Crawford would easily be the most desired bat on the market. I know Matt Holliday could be available, but CC is younger, having a better offensive season, is miles better defensively and is not just a two month rental. At age 27, CC is prime for another five year extension. I'd love for that to be here, but the economics may not work out.
Outside of Crawford, the Rays have a number of valuable pieces in the bullpen. Every year every contending team is looking to add to their bullpen. Names like Dan Wheeler, Chad Bradford, and even Joe Nelson could be very popular should the Rays decide to move some pieces. Wheeler has rebounded from a terrible start. He now sports an above average 3.58 ERA/3.95 ERA and his 3.14 K/BB is also stellar. He is owed the rest of his $3.2 million dollar salary for 2009 as well as $3.5 million for 2010. There is a $4 million dollar option for 2011 or a $1 million dollar buyout. For some teams that is a very affordable contract for at worst a league average reliever.
Bradford hasn't been sharp since his return, but I'm sure if made available, he would draw some interest now that most of his $3.5 million dollar salary for 2009 is paid. Bradford can still get ground balls with the best of them and has had a bit of bad luck since his return. Joe Nelson has had a down year (4.50 ERA/5.71 FIP), but at a pro-rated amount of the $1.3 million he is scheduled to make in 2009, I'm sure teams would like to add him.
There are others names there too, but we've already rosterbated enough. Truly, I hope this post becomes obsolete once we start playing games on Friday, but I'd be lying if said that I haven't considered the worst. The last thing I want to do is give up on 2009, but the gap remains as wide as it is or wider, than the smart move would be to make this team better for the future.
0 recs |
617 comments
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Comments
I hope we can sell a bullpen arm regardless of the standings
CC should be explored, but only moved if its too good to turn down. Value should be really high
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 7:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Didn’t RJ post a rosterbation thread a week or two ago that had our pre-arb committments, including Craw, at $49m in 2010? That isn’t all that bad. However, if we get blown away on an offer, then we HAVE to do it, unless all these big CC fans start buying season tickets. Their choice: accept the realities of supporting a mid-small market team with a slowly growing fanbase, or pony up your cash to assure the team of guaranteed revenue. That’s how this works.
I just don’t see any contending team out there in dire need of a LF that has attractive trading chips, though.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Carl Crawford is sending the wrong message
He’s 27, if you start trading 27 yo players at the top of their game, what does this say about us as a franchise?
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 7:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It depends what you trade him for
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll be trading him for prospects, so go to Vegas and put your money on red or green, same difference
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly a C and prospects
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you bet on green?
If you can get 3 top prospects you have to. As you have succinctly stated in prior thread, who do we have for a bat below AAA? Kang? Beckham? We shouldn’t be picking top-5 again so we need to retool the farm at some point. I love me some Craw, though.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also stated he prefers prospects to compensatory picks
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
6:1 on that
I’ve read a little about the historicals of the two, but each has their upside. What Dave put together about Ichiro leaving was a pretty shitty list for both sides. The difference between a stud prospect and a comp pick is a lot smaller than a “prospect” and a comp pick. That falls on your front office to know the difference.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right not all prospects are created equally
I was just pointing to the usual knee jerk stuff. Flavor of the Day. Its never clear cut where you always do the same thing. Just means you don’t always have tp have a fire sale. If you don’t trade the player you also get to use him until hes gone.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you want us to trade for L Millz?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We made several trades of players whose contracts were up
The only real star we got in return is Ben Zobrist, and that took 4 years
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kazmir?
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only a ruh-tard would have passed up that deal.
It’d be like the Sox calling up the Red Sox calling up the Royals and offering Clay B for Brian Bannister. Even Dayton Moore wouldn’t turn that down.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point wasn't the obvious quality of the deal
He said no prospects have worked out
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose we could add Garza to the list
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I would count Garza as a prospect.
Also, Aybar?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that your only other example?
Two is not enough. Not a gotcha.
by plasticman on Jul 15, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I've been thinking how I could say it like that.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...some real stars were traded....
I mean why couldnt they get more for TY FUCKING WIGGINTON, or JULIO FUCKING I CANT PLAY OVER NICK GREEN LUGO.
You’re a tard most of the time.
by td32 on Jul 15, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh oh, Toby used his radio voice there
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha...Maybe if I were on Satellite radio...
A little elf promotion, but I’ll be filling in for JP Peterson from 3-6 on 1010AM today. I’ll be sure to bring up DRaysBay
by td32 on Jul 15, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll listen if you promise to beat-box some bumper music.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*not really, I don't listen to the radio much anymore
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any love you throw to DRB is appreciated.
by Erik Hahmann on Jul 15, 2009 10:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I still can't believe
all we could get for Danys Baez and Lance Carter was Edwin Jackson and Chuck Tiffany.
For christ’s sakes, two all-stars!!!1
That trade will set us back for years.
Edwin’d
by RATW on Jul 15, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is i'd rather have Crawford
than a prospect
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is neither you nor I know what the market is for CC
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, would you rather have Buster Posey and a decent arm, with Kapler sharing a LF/RF platoon with Gross and Joyce for the rest of the season?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, yes i would
love me some posey
I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer to drink WAY too much of it.
by stpetelawyer on Jul 15, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The chances of that happening, of course, are like 0.01%, but with Brain Sabean, you never know.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we could convince them CC's really the next Bonds. He's got the skinny, no armed, black LFer thing down.
Don’t know about the 70+ home runs, though.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE POINT IS...
If you cant retain CC after 2010, then maybe it would be wise to get a couple big prospects in return, if they are being offered.
You need to seperate emotion from the situation. Every person on this board would like CC to remain a Ray, but the fact is he’ll be offered far more money from an opposing team.
by td32 on Jul 15, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those god damn Wall Street Jew owners!
If they weren’t so busy trying to manipulate the world market, maybe they’d shell out some extra cash to keep Crawdog!
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it always jews with you
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because I knew it'd elicit a response from you.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Type Strong my friend
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Joeybw.
Resigned to sleeping in bed 12 hours a day. I pity him.
Oh, and blah, blah, blah, something about jews, blah, blah, blah.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because it's acceptable to be anti-Semitic on this board for some reason...
by plasticman on Jul 15, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure it's painfully obvious that post was in jest.
There are people who genuinely do evoke that kind of phrase when talking about Stu and company. I’m mocking them.
Also, TGN1 has Tribe blood in him, and I don’t believe he has ever perceived a comment from me as being genuinely anti-semitic. If he had, I’m pretty sure I would have received a warning about it.
Lighten up.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FZ shares the blood as well
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There will be many tears shed the day you get angry with me.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*insert random trail of tears joke here*
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't perceive your comments as genuinely anti-semetic
I perceive them as discount-brand anti-semetic. 80% as offensive at half the cost.
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good bargins, sort of like a Jew would go after.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
IS THAT THE JOKE? HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T GET IT BEFORE LMFAO
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I do enjoy bran...
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI, this is me IRL

Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't cry because I stole your joke. Be less like Dennis Miller next time.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't steal my joke, you explained it
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TAKE YOUR WITTY RETORTS AND GO PLAY IN TRAFFIC
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AH HA!
Type Strong
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 15, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I order them wholesale from Cambodia.
Waaaaaaaaay cheaper.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know my post was that "heavy".
I didn’t call you a jerk or anything.
Personally, I just don’t joke about anti-semitism or racism.
by plasticman on Jul 15, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's acceptable to make fun of real racists and anti-semites on this board.
It’s not acceptable to be overtly racist. Making double-entandre jokes about concentration camps or cracking jokes about committing sepuku upon failure is one thing. Using an avatar of a cross burning, quoting Mein Kampf in your signature or linking to a site talking about the latest KKK protests is completely different.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the Rays are to resign CC
it’ll have to be an extension BEFORE he reaches free agency. And if the Rays can pay him about what he’s making now for the next 4-5 years, then I think he stays. But it’ll take a 4 yr, 40mil or so deal to get it done. But with the market depreciation the way it is in this economy, be thankful this is happening now and not a couple years ago. There’s NO way we could’ve resigned him when 100 mil contracts were flying right and left. But there is a chance now. All I know, is the Rays have a rare player, in more ways than one. His talent level and his desire to remain a Ray. I hope the Rays make every effort to resign him.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great point
If Manny had just signed for 4/100 it might be a different story, but the market is ripe to lock up talent right now.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"A prospect"
That’s pretty ambiguous. It’s like saying “a MLB veteran”. Is it Halladay or Tomo Ohka?
Check this out, it’s an estimate of how valuable prospects are, given their ranking and hitter/pitcher category.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/3/777412/al-west-farm-system-values
If “a prospect” is a top position player, jump on it. If “a prospect” is a mid-ranked pitcher, probably not so much.
Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.
by Sky Kalkman on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be sure to call your show today
be careful
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be terrific... if you wouldnt be sooooo negative all the time, people wouldnt jump your case
by td32 on Jul 15, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to keep Crawfors, that's being negative?
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude you aren't negative
you just don’t always agree with the mainstream opinion—you prompt a lot of useful discussion. Keep it up.
by plasticman on Jul 15, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since when is preferring Sonny over Edwin mainstream opinion?
by Navi's_Navy on Jul 15, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking in a general sense
But aren’t we talking about CC, and not Ejax/Sonny?
by plasticman on Jul 15, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sports Chief may call in.
Into the Wall : Sarcasm for the Soccer Guy
by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 15, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we conference him with bgfour
and the unknowninsider?
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bgfour would flourish on the radio, he at least doesn't hide his identity
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big talk coming from you, DRaysBay user "FreeZorilla"
Into the Wall : Sarcasm for the Soccer Guy
by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 15, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I am not cut out for radio
I;m just saying there is a difference between “I’m an unkown insider with all sorts of connections” and “I am Steve Pipken Savage and have watched a lot of baseball over my life so I know more than you”
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The I know more than you part is what makes me want to crash a bus full of puppies into
an all AIDS-babies hospital.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite part about his posts
He couldn’t even pick up the not-so-suttle sarcasm of ‘liking’ his posts. I liked his posts in the same way that I like watching the grape lady get the wind knocked out of her after she tries to cheat in the grape-stomping contest.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found them enjoyable.
At least they were different.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would have been fine if he hadn't responded like a baby back bitch.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
People here get scared and douchey when something new comes along.
READ THE RULES YOU JACKASS!
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something new?
If he really would have taken inspiration from Gonzo Journalism, he should have blown his brains 3 years ago.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aww
I miss HST
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't want to use that either. It's mean. Even for me.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something new = something attention whoreish.
SBN bans if you make 3+ fanposts within an hour, he almost did that.
(Spam purposes)
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even read them until he made a comparison between his posts and mine, and I barely commented in the threads.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I didn’t mind reading his baseball stuff. It was the trying to become a celebrity that was just sort of weird. He for whatever reason deified himself. All in all, I wouldn’t mind more. Its easy to ignore his posts if its not your cup o tea as he rarely commented outside his fanposts.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did RJ forward you those emails he sent him?
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he did email Erik asking "r u the one who banned me?"
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHA. Considering I sign all my ban notices, you'd think he would have figured that out.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He actually thinks ESPN 'values' him writing there.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I value being able to fart. Everyone loves their own brand, and I like the sound it makes.
That doesn’t mean it’s good for me to share my farts with everyone else all the time.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't sell yourself short
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m not disagreeing he became out of line, but I think part of that was fueled by the masses. The adult dating site was bizarre too. His first “blog” post was innocent yet dull enough. I don’t think he had much statistical analysis to offer, but some of his historical references were interesting.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He kept asking me whether he should stay or leave.
I told him a dozen times I don’t care as long as he stops whining to me.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair.
But again, if he would have lurked before he posted, he would have known that those comments in his first thread weren’t insulting him; that happens in just about every thread. But he took it personally, because he didn’t lurk.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to post things like that, you have to have the ability ignore comments.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do it all the time when people hate on my humor posts. :(
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key to being funny is not trying to be funny.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing he got banned
I like the ban first, debate validity second method.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I banned him, I debated the validity with myself before I did it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks, unless EVERYONE else thinks I'm wrong.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were wrong for banning me re: star wars
everyone on the secret DRB forums was calling you a jerk
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aggression
tell me about your wardrobe. many shirts with fancy drawings on them?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HATE THOSE STUPID SHIRTS, IT MAKES ME WANT TO SMASH
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yellow means go faster
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I warned you in thread, then I gave you a site warning, whose purpose was solely to force you to refresh the page to discover that I hid the thread.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the truth isn't as fun as
kericr banned me for quoting star wars
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll play along with it from now on then.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, you couldn't find the raccoon?
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is easier
Have you ever seen a larger man zeig heil like that in your life?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen him in real life, and that picture is very very small.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thus, the reason why I didn't use RR either.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did as well until he turned into play the victim guy and acted like a knowitall
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw, does 1010 still broadcast Yankee games?
nice “hometown” station
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cant expect the team to be able to afford him long term, why not trade him at his peak.
by Erik Hahmann on Jul 15, 2009 8:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Is this his peak?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really see Crawdog adding anymore power, or even OBP?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a simple question
Yes or no, on wax, is he going to have a better year than this in the future?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only thing I can see with room for improvement, is his trend of improved plate discipline
which could help OBP. His BABIP of .352 while not his career high, willbe one of his higher ones. All in all, this is probably near as good as it will get.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you don't think that he'll ever be a 20 homer guy?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its possible
but if he becomes a consistent 20+ HR guy it may come at the expense of some speed (defense, triples, and SB)
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd have to adjust his swing. He came close in 2006, but with the way he swings the bat, there's no way he consistently hits 20.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also having his second highest year in terms of HR/FB
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, the best comp for Carl might be Ichiro.
I could see Crawford doing this for the next 5-6 years, but if his value is perceived higher than this, then you’ve gotta move him.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of that stuff will decline, supposedly, in 3 years anyway. I think this is the point I've reached
If we can’t get him to a 4/40 type deal then we have to be very serious about trading. I like Craw, he has been the face for a long time, and I hope he doesn’t go on take the money and run. How much do you need?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically. If you can get him to sign a team friendly deal, awesome.
If you can’t, and his value is perceived as a top 15 player, then you deal him if the price is right. If it isn’t right, you keep him and let him walk and take the picks and potential playoff appearances.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like the FO that you said
buys low and sells high will strongly consider moving him if their metrics show what we all seem to know. This is right around the peak of Crawford it seems.
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by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, what does it say?
No, seriously, what negative point are you implying?
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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok ok ok...
Is everyone forgetting how horrible it felt to be a fan JUST 2 years ago? We are at the allstar break, WITH A WINNING RECORD (!!!!!) and everyone wants to suppose who should think about trading in the next 2 weeks if we dont gain any ground….
The love / hate I have with this site is all the stats. Sometimes, its a bit too much. We just had our most beloved player go to his third allstar game, and win the damn MVP and the next day we have this…. as a fan of the game, Tampa Bay, and most of all Carl Crawford, I couldnt stop smiling last night.
And you guys want to debate the pro’s and con’s of trading him? Whaaaa?
Lets just be a stat-less fan for a moment and remember:
*Our team, who has spent their first decade of existence being the worst of the worst made it all the way to the world series, surprising everyone in the world.
*We have a winnning record at the allstar break. The Rays have fought hard to get there this year, overcoming some bad starting pitching, but we are still there. 6.5 games out? A few years ago that would be called May, and at this mid point we would be looking at 15 games out.
*Baseball is a game about hope, and every game is played because you never know what will happen. It hasnt been the Yankees who have been winning the world series lately but the teams that all the metrics didnt predict even having a chance.
*Trading CC would be the worst thing this club could do. There is no replacing what he brings, and for years he has been one of the most underrated players in the game.
Ok, Im done. Lets not throw the towel in just yet. We are still close, and still in this.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 7:56 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A few points
1) I am a big CC fan and have a jersey
2) Trading CC does not necessarily imply we are out of anything for 2009. If we scored a catcher and prospects, the net change to the starting lineup with a better catcher and Joyce could be positive.
3) Last night’s catch was awesome, and he was the deserving MVP as it was the games biggest play
4) A front office isn’t doing its job if it does not explore all options.
5) Part of what has made this team a contender was our “Wall Street” FO who is willing to try to buy low and sell high.
6) Trading CC in a firesale would be an awful thing. We don’t know if trading hi is wise, b/c we don’t have a feel for the market. My point is it should be explored.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was with you up until that last point
Never say never, the only untouchables in my book are Longo and Shields because of their contracts. You at least have to put your pole in the water and see what nibbles. no homo
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
" *Trading CC would be the worst thing this club could do. There is no replacing what he brings, and for years he has been one of the most underrated players in the game."
Yes, because Matt Joyce being ~1-2 wins less than Crawford in the second half will ruin our team when we could possibly replace Navarro and get some help for 2010/2011/2012.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I don't get
no one is saying Carl sucks and we have to get rid of him, but if we find ourselves with an awesome offer, or where we realistically think 09 is out the window, doesn’t it make sense to ramp up for 2010 and beyond.
I don’t like throwing in the towel either on a season, but I’d much rather stay in the contention picture than just hold chips to appease the lukewarm fans.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not really throwing in the towel.
If we trade Crawford and trade FOR Zaun, Joyce + Zaun basically cancel out Crawford — unless the numbers are way off, which I’ll check in a few — and whatever we get from Crawford adds wins at a later time for way less money.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you mean
Zaun+prospects? Is C.C just worth Zaun’s value?
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
by Some other guy who does not care on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two separate trades, if we traded Carl for Zaun I would riot myself.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be an Atari Teenage Riot?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not what is reality, it's what's perceived
And that will be the perception. You cannot take emotions out of sports. You will not get average people to agree with you, no matter how right you may be. This will be viewed as throwing in the towel.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we were selling out games, this would be a concern.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think that attendance= sell-outs/not sell-outs?
This team does not need negative PR. Period.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm saying that the people who go to the games right now aren't going to stop going if they trade Crawford.
Because it’s a combination of die hard fans/people looking for cheap fun/season ticket holders. The only thing it would effect would be future attendance this season – which would be quickly alleviated if we win games.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
75% of the people who go to games would rejoice if traded BJ from the comments I hear at the Trop
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why the FO needs to ignore what the fans think, and let the wins speak for themselves.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no NEED to trade CC
it’s a matter of money, pure and simple. Which can be enough of a reason in and of itself. The Rays need to find out what it would take to keep him here. Is it 4 yr, 40mil, or is it 4yr, 60mil? If it’s the first, the Rays can afford it. If it’s the second, it’s time to see what the Rays can get for him…in the off-season. The Rays are still in this thing. I don’t care what numbers say. It doesn’t account for what can happen in simplifying Price, or a healthy Kazmir, or a Burrell that starts pulling his weight. There are too many variables to make any major trade at this stage in the game. If Crawford goes, it’ll be in the offseason.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, this whole thread and topic is masturbatory in nature.
I don’t think anybody thinks Carl needs to go… we just like chatting about the pluses and minuses of actually trading him, that sort of thing.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ - we get Posey and Baumgarner
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might as well throw Cain in too and maybe Willie McCovey can still swing a stick.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus we get to use the word masturbatory
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by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ's too lazy to care what other people say
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by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's going to leave because of public perception.
And a huge amount of dough.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care what the average person thinks.
If it makes the team better and they can’t realize that, then by all means, go pout.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then look at florida
they’ve won 2 world series, but their firesales still have no one in the seats. Percetion matters, even if you are making the right decisions.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or look at Boston.
When they dealt Nomar.
Or Chicago when they dealt Sosa.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one was injury-prone, one was roided up
Crawford is neither.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Florida has about the worst fan base in the league.
And did more than trade one ‘franchise’ player.
If you can make unfair comparisons, then so can I.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is that?
Could it be not one, but two ‘firesales’ that caused a fanbase to have no loyalty? Trading CC would not be the equivalent of Florida. I was connecting the two based off the reality that perception matters. And the fact that the Rays always traded off their ‘good’ players for prospects for a decade. Trading CC, if not handled properly, could make a fanbase feel betrayed.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're assuming most people know what good players we actually dealt away.
There’s Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo from the Friedman era, we got Zobrist from that, I don’t think anyone cared that Huff was gone then, and certainly doesn’t care now.
What you’re saying is “The Bay Area has absolutely no respect for Friedman’s ability and track record of making good moves and therefore has no trust in the new management despite a stunning turnaround.”
Some of you act like trading Crawford makes us the Nationals.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think trading CC is what I assume would be a fair deal
or in our favor (knowing our FO) would be seen as a firesale. Thats typically when you trade a player for 40 cents on the dollar. I haven’t seen that attitude by our team or FO yet. NO reason to think it starts with CC.
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by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is a retarded comparison?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, so is comparing trading Crawford to the Marlins
Who dealt everyone, twice.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you miss the part where I said "Those are unfair comparisons, but so is Florida/Tampa"?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just did.
I saw the comment and posted.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHEFF GOT HIS RING
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't you actually read my post
and actually see what is being compared. No one has said that Trading CC is the same as the Marlins firesale. I was making a connection about public perception.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.
then look at florida
they’ve won 2 world series, but their firesales still have no one in the seats. Percetion matters, even if you are making the right decisions.
Firesale perception != trading Carl Crawford perception
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford's best asset is something most fans don't care about anyways.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pencil thin moustache, imo
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't make a difference.
He is still probably the second-most liked player and the longest tenured.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aubrey Huff/Julio Lugo were well liked.
Did either of those trades keep people from coming to the park?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking anything out of nothing still leaves nothing.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one came then.
It isn’t just about butts in the seat, and we all know that. It’s about market shares, PR, etc.
Also, neither were close to as well-liked as CC. Huff had pretty much overstayed his welcome at that point.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure the perception of trading/letting him walk is as huge as people think.
Oakland let people walk, nobody showed up. Florida trades people, nobody shows up.
If the general fans don’t trust or believe in Friedman, then just move the team. The guy is batting .750, if he hasn’t earned faith yet, he never will.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to give them time to develop that belief
that’s why it just makes better sense that, if you cannot resign CC, then trade him in the offseason, but not during the season. It does signify you are giving up on the season, or why else would you trade him?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To get a better package?
That extra half season could be the difference between Teixeira and Holliday-like packages.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that implies you can get a Teixiera package
if you can get a Teixiera package for CC, then fine. But that means you are acquiring a Buster Posey or a Justin Smoak type player. If you are not, then there’s no reason to trade him now. He will still be a 28 year old, in his prime, impact player. Yes he’ll be 1 yr from free agency vs 18 months, but it all depends what you can get for him now. If you can get that awesome package, then yes, it’s worth considering and worth the potential backlash.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've done this comparison before.
Crawford is closer to Teixeira than Bay.
And this whole thing is contingent on getting a really good package, nobody wants to trade Carl for two B prospects. I’d much rather have the picks.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then we agree (finally)
that the Rays need to pick up a player that’s worth trading CC in the middle of a pennant race. If they don’t, the trade isn’t worthwhile vs. keeping him, yes?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did anyone say otherwise?
If can’t get someone worthwhile, then obviously we shouldn’t trade him, and should just take the picks.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you two take high-ceiling prospects or current MLB players for CC?
(just stirring the pot again)
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this point was never fully stated
your point, if i read properly, was that the Rays could trade CC because having Joyce has a ready replacement and there isn’t much of a difference. The same way all I was ever saying was the trade has to be worth the public perception of the trade. So it sure seems as if we have been talking past each other in all this
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having Joyce means we don't need major league ready players in return.
Nor would we need a left fielder in return.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the farther down the minors you go
the more you don’t know if a player will develop like you hope. If the Rays trade CC, then need a player who’s excelled greatly in the minors and close to major league ready. This implies a catcher like Buster Posey, or a first baseman like Justin Smoak. Both are high first round picks, both have excelled in the minors and both are close to the majors. If the Rays can get something like that then this makes sense. IF that is too high, then it’s just not worth the trade
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we are all on that same page
Please stop reiterating this argument. If you can get a stud you do it, if you can sign him to a long term deal you do it, if neither, then hold on to him and take the the picks and enjoy the next 18 months. Please stop rehashing.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how am i rehashing more than anyone else here?
I’m replying to what RJ said. I don’t see you telling him to stop. I don’t get it.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's his site
I don’t walk into a mans house and tell him how to bone his wife, even if I could teach her a thing or 2.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, take the BJ approach and apply logic instead of doing.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blow Job?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'his' site?
yes he’s ‘the’ guy and does a great job here, but he’s not insolated from criticism just because he runs the joint. That’s foolish
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about criticism
I’m not going to tell him to drop an issue if he feels like talking about it. I’m pretty sure we are all in agreement here, so why continue to argue a point.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I talk about a subject too much tell me to drop it.
I have a big ego, I’m more than capable of taking criticism.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe i'm just too stubbornheaded myself sometimes
I was trying to make one point on something, but it got beyond what I meant. And after a lot of blabbing we were on the same page anyways. I’ll just try to shut up more.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha
I was just trying to respond to difference between near MLB ready prospects vs. farther down the road. I’ll make a better effort not to repeat myself in later posts. But at the same time, a title doesn’t change whether something needs to be dropped. If I continue to talk about it or if anyone else does, the point is still valid.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not you it's just that we
tend to talk about something and then usually get to kind of a middle ground where everyone is comfortable with an argument so you essentially hear the same opinion over and over even if it comes from different mouths.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hear you
and dually noted.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE STOP RESPONDING RJ
I don’t think it’s going to make much of a difference.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
I think the days of Tex-like packages may be behind us. If not shoot, but you do HAVE TO take public perception into account. Granted it would help if the local media didn’t treat it as “ZOMG THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT WINNING!!!111 MORE PROSPECTS THE TIME IS NOW!!!1111”
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't weigh public perception that heavily.
People in New York love Francouer. Perhaps we should deal Joyce for him.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when you are trying to build an organization it does matter more then than later
Does Walmart give a crap what people think of what it does? But as they were trying to build themselves inot the organization they would become, I guarantee they did. It’s all about where you are in your stage of development. All that is being presented here, is the Rays are only 1 1/2 yrs into building something. Trading CC has to be a scenario only considered if it nets them a guy who’s going to be a potential All Star at his position and under team control for many more seasons
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's assinine.
Quit acting like I’m a moron.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.
People will be upset about dealing Crawford, but it probably makes no difference to whether they show up.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
Its a small peice of the puzzle. You don’t not trade him b/c of public perception, but you can’t completely ignore it. Ideally we just win teh WS this year, and then it doesn’t matter what we do.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's obvious.
Quit acting like everyone’s a moron.
by RATW on Jul 15, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If everyone wouldn't act with such disdain toward the majority of the fanbase I wouldn't have to.
We are a small niche. Most fans don’t think like us. The sooner people realize that the FO has to account for what they think the better.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading him after a WS win...
will equal firesale in general public’s mind. The general public get’s their baseball knowledge from Steve Duemig and Joe Morgan. You’re never going to convince them that BJ Upton is not lazy. If you anyone gets a chance, read Tommy Craggs article about "overpaid baseball players on Deadspin from yesterday.
Boom. Outta Here.
by WillisDaddy on Jul 15, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well maybe my example is stupid
but the point behind it is valid. Places that are more developed can do things that places that are not cant. If that wasn’t the case, why the hell are the Rays offering these Saturday concerts and free parking? They sure as hell wouldn’t have to do it if they were packing the place. They could charge whatever they wanted for tickets because if someone didn’t want to pay it, well someone else would. That’s the point i’m trying to make. The Rays are not that far along in their development to consider trading CC without considering the ramifications.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that i think is everyones point
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Round and round
1) possible better market value now due to leverage
2)possible overall net increase to 2009 if a catcher is acquired
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they've only had 18 months of solid baseball in the last 10+ years
and if it wouldn’t be for the horrible timing of this economic crap, then i think there would be more ppl out at the park this year.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious what those most liked numbers actually are
I think Zo is making a run for the moeny for #2.Underdog white guy always resonates
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we know it's not Uptonegro.
If we dealt him for Eckstein this area would skeet all over the place.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i explained myself exactly what i meant right afterwards
CC would be a much smaller version by all means. This is exactly what I’ve repeated. But when you take into consideration the first decade of this franchise and trading the teams’ most recognizable player after only 18 mo of good play, it could be—not guaranteed to be—but could be a major setback in developing a fanbase.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd say you've got a point; but CC isn't really a hometown hero.
Now, if Evan Longoria’s popularity continues to rocket and they suddenly do this with him, then you’re right. That’s going to hurt the fanbase. But CC for some reason in this area has also been the ‘and’ guy. ’We’ve got Aubrey Huff AND Carl Crawford! We’ve got Julio Lugo AND Carl Crawford! Evan Longoria AND Carl Crawford!"
CC’s never been ‘the man’ in the public’s eyes, even if he really IS the man right now.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
I think everybody likes CC, but he’s not putting people in seats the way Longoria is.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this is a joke, but having been to about 60-70 games in the Longoria era,
there is some truth to this.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad, but this.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well of course.
Look at the Bucs.
Alstott/Lynch were the good guys, Sapp/Brooks/Barber were always secondary.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People did get their panties in a bunch when Dunn was let go the first time.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think over time Sapp and Brooks became beloved.
Certainly early, though, Lynch and Alstott (especially Alstott) were more admired.
Nobody really likes Barber. Maybe hispanics or Asians do.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People like layers that look like them.
How many black guys do you see with Ruud jerseys?
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brooks yes
Barber is more loved than Sapp, but I think TIki has soiled all things Barber.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because Sapp has "character issues"
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did nothing to help his cause by saying he signed with the Raiders to 'CTC'.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea there are other issues with Sapp
mainly his mouth. Despite his charming smile, he could not match popularity with Jerry, Jason Taylor or ESmith on Dancing with the Stars, the female demographic. He was slightly more popular than LT
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alstott can lick my nuts
Brooks is the beezneez. seriously
The fans are idiots, they’l like whatever you want them to. They all get excited when the A-plane takes off, lands 6 inches from where it takes off and looks like an idiot, but God forbid they celebrate a player who is one of the best at his position, but also not a bumbling idiot.
/Bucs rant.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of your is's should be was's
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry,
i turn into the Incredible Hulk when I hear/see Alstott’s name and the massive unloading of jizz in peoples pants from a memory of Alstott. Gimme a break.
If you can’t tell, not a fan of that “A” guy
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying that DB was a hell of a player and a ton of fun to watch
until about 3 years ago.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brooks is the best player in Buccaneer history
Undisputed. He goes beyond “hell of a player”.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much this.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to split hairs and not even discuss the point I was making
Watching him these last 2 even 3 years has been hard.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has only been bad when playing hurt or as the season wears on
He can still be effective in a limited role
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Belicheat is going to enjoy him
Let’s stop talking about the NFL I feel dirty and dumber already
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SANDY KAZMIR IS A RAPIST WHO HATES DERRICK BROOKS
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My raper days are long behind me, much like Brooksie's glory days
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing for a player to be fun to watch
but when the fan base celebrates him 5 years past him being a good player or because he remembered to wipe his ass is ridiculous.
We get it, fans loved him, but when he fumbles every 19.8 carries, can’t block and can’t run, I’m not going to jump up and down everytime I hear a stupid whistle
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was never a big Alstott fan so you
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want me to complete that sentence for you?
I was never a big Alstott fan so you can go fuck yourself, Buc Wild, you African loving carpet bagger.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eloquent as usual
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF I SPRING A LEAK
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should roll with
KING HARVEST HAS SURELY COME
It’s more emphatic, and then I can imagine that snare drum at the beginning.
But, I appreciate it all the same.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate the comment (compliment?)
I will now proceed to take part in some masturbatory exercises.
enough of the Alstott stuff, it gets me a little angry.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should do a post about it.
Not here. Go back to your own blog and talk about the old times in the creamcicle uniforms and how you used to walk uphill 15 miles both ways to and from the stadium and how Alstott was a big dummy who drove by you and never offered you a ride.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're preaching to the choir while
people do the same thing about Brooks, could you imagine if Gruden had dumped #55 as unceremoniously as the new crew did? People’s heads would have exploded.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the "perception"
was that Gruden didn’t care about the Bucs past, and people assume Morris does.
For the record, I made that same point. Gruden would have been hung in effigy around this town, and people would’ve marched on RJS if he had done it. Morris and Dominik got a free pass, relatively speaking.
Perception does matter to an extent, but you don’t make/not make moves based on that. If the Bucs win the SB this year, no one will think twice about letting Brooks go.
Winning solves all problems.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should say, he's never been 'the man' here in Tampa.
The nation at large thought for quite a while the he was the man here, even if we didn’t.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well fuck me, I just called the area 'Tampa'.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are officially banned from The Burg.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, now we need to move the team to Tampa, since I can't go to games anymore.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this got twisted to hell.
Technically, I did, but I sure as hell didn’t do what you just said.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have CC, and there is no one in the seats.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
take a look at any business model
and tell me that perception doesn’t matter. It can take years to rebuild bad publicity. The Rays are having to work off a decade worth of shitty management. Trading him now, would take another step back. In the off-season, if you know you can’t resign him and you can get a better deal that compensatory picks, then it does make sense.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Rays have been doing Tampa Bay fans a fucking SERVICE over the last three years.
Affordable ticket prices.
Free parking for one year, now free parking with 4 people.
Food deals.
Saturday night concerts.
Upgrading the Trop.
New uniforms.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, we gave away a valuable talent for nothing because he was a headcase!
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's back in AAA again for the Nats. That valuable talent is starting to fade.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's killing the ball in Triple AAA and hit 264/386/475 last year.
Even if he does turn out to be too mental for MLB, we gave him away for publicity reasons. We got absolutely nothing for him.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, can't argue with that.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IOW
Hammel’d
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Won't someone think of the children?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE TAKES CARE OF HIS KIDS
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For how long?
Nails just went broke after having a pretty dang good 12 year career. What is this fuckstick going to do when he’s out of the game, with no trade, and dumb as a bag of hammers in 3 years?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pros vs. Joes is still hiring.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kurt Angle is the biggest D-Bag I've ever seen
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT THE ANGLE SLAM!?
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
A league title on a shoestring budget
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
BK Jax
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This proves my point!
look at how much it has taken to try and rebuild a fanbase that was never properly built in the first place. I’m not saying that trading CC may not be the best option. What I’m saying is you have to consider the ramifications of any major deal, and perception does matter, at least now. A couple years down the road, when this area buys into the concept that it’s team-first, not favorite player first, and sees how this is the model the Rays need in order to survive, then it’ll be easier to trade a player like CC.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
May I remind you of The Hit Show?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
spending retardedly is also ignorant, yet
and spending for spending sake even though the public may like it, isn’t a good idea either, I agree. The point is to balance out the two. You can’t always trade every player, either. Not yet at least. The area doesnt’ understand the Billy Beane model just yet.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane's situation is much worse.
That’s a case of the owner not wanting to spending money, as opposed to Stu progressively increasing the payroll as he makes money off the team.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, there fans REALLY suck.
If we can’t sell out after 5-6 years of success, then fuck us in the face.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't maximize the value of CC (and again we don't know how to)
You run the risk of the fans never learning that team-first would have worked better the model. If you believe in the model, follow it.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is probably one of the best coments i've heard yet
rather than saying perception doesn’t matter or some stupid shit like that, you have at least given a valid argument in why trading CC can help the area understand, which is worth the short-term backlash. Glad to know someone is about showing how they are right, or have a valid point, rather than I can never be wrong so you are wrong.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An argument against perception not mattering is just as stupid as an argument that says perception does matter.
Furthermore, I never said that I at all disagreed with what you were saying.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Glad to know someone is about showing how they are right, or have a valid point, rather than I can never be wrong so you are wrong."
Yeah, I never show facts supporting my case. Never. Nope.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course you do
but you rarely ever consider someone else’s point of view, esp if it disagrees with yours. I’ve never said I’m right and you are wrong…I haven’t said ‘trading CC is wrong and anyone is stupid to say so’. All I’ve said is perception is someone that does need to be considered. That’s it. The comment above showed, to me, why, in considering what i’ve been saying, that there is valid reason to trade CC in spite of perception. He considered what I said and responded. He didn’t just focus disagree on principle and show other reasons why CC perhaps should be traded.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't think the FO considers perception a
valid or invalid reason to do something. Putting together a winning team will buy you all kinds of time. The Rays had 10 years of “bad perception” and all that was blinked away with a WS run. Same thing here, while the short run might cause a “bad perception”, the FO knows that if they put the right team together, all will be forgotten and they will be regaled with songs and hookers.
If we trade CC, for whatever players/prospects/picks, and it nets us a WS, people aren’t gonna give two craps about CC or any other player that left.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"but you rarely ever consider someone else’s point of view"
Oh sweet, playing the ego card.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You loveable dictator, you.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uni Change was for the FO benefit
Yea, it created excitement but more soit increased merchandise revenue
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does attendance matter in this case?
If we get mad at Sternberg for trading someone and saving money, why do we care if more or less people come?
by tallyray on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because how much money do you really save if your attendance decreases?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty...
They make more money off media than anything else, and those contracts are going anywhere. The fixed attendance will stay fixed and I doubt the variable changes all that much. I don’t know many people that will stop coming to games because Crawford isn’t in left field.
by tallyray on Jul 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasnt referring to your post
just the general opinion of The Heater type fans who see positioning a team for a future run as giving up.
I completely understand re-tooling your team, moving pieces as offers come and focusing on more than a one year or go broke methodology.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how "stats-oriented" and "discussing trading Crawford" are connected.
One is a topic, one is an approach. What am I missing?
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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, why can't a site do both?
There’s a thread for celebrating Crawford. I’m guessing 95% of people here love Crawford and would love to have him stick around, if it was that easy. You can root for a team, love a player, and realize you’ll be happier as a fan if a certain move is made.
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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing stats means having no heart.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repbulican
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think....
we are so used to having to be negative as Rays fans, that its hard to be positive… especially when it should be so easy to be so. Look at the Nationals, and the O’s, Those two were us JUST 2 years ago. I feel for their fans. I grew up an Indians fan.. in the mistake by the lake days. The 90’s were a wonderful time, because all the years of seeing them get abused payed off.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 8:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I ived in Cleveland till Nov '97, and saw my first game in 1960, so i know excactly what you're speaking of
75K at opening day, 5K the next day
Remember the trades with the Yankees, where we gave up Nettles and Chambliss?
How about Eck to BOS?
Tony Horton, Gomer Hodge, Chico Salmon, ah i should write a book
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
86'
Cory Snyder, Joe Carter, Brook Jacoby, and all the hope in the world. Even SI gave them a cover. I gave up on the Tribe when they wouldnt resign Thome. He was to that team what CC is to us. It killed me when they would not give him that extra year.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the CLE fans boo him when he comes to town
i’m glad i’m out of there
Thome and Omar should have never left
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bgfour'd
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Solid Reference.
"What the hell is a Labradoddle?"
by davelrogers on Jul 15, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Crawford depends on the return
This would be a classic sell high and we can get some serious pieces for him.
As FreeZorilla said we should trade bullpen pieces anyways. Come playoff time we are going to have excess.
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 8:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers like Shouse, Bradford, Nelson (who'd want him?) should be traded, for their
chance of coming bask aren’t good
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very proud of Carl. But if he brings us Buster Posey and Madison Baumgarner...
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia didn't bring that
a corner OFer with a career 800 OPS is?
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not by himself.
But he’s also going to be much, much more affordable and he has a guaranteed 2010 year. Sabathia was a 3-4 month rental at best.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford is probably more valuable than CC.
Just because he has an extra year at a reasonable value next year. CC didn’t have that. CC’s value falls somewhere between Teixiera and Jason Bay.
by tallyray on Jul 15, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Andrew gets Baumgardner and Posey for him, put him in the White House
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Sabean is not the world's best ever GM; keep that in mind.
And the Gs are currently the NL wildcard leader and in need of legit offense.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don't really look
for a OF though. It’s old but not at the moment OF offense.
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
by Some other guy who does not care on Jul 15, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not between Tex and Bay...
I hope no one expects a deal like that. If that Rays get two or three quality young players then it’s a good deal to make.
by tallyray on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're a huge asshole, buddy.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's saying throw in Lincecum to even it out.
by RATW on Jul 15, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Cain.
We can give them CC, Navi, Niemann. How is that not an equal trade?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add in Randy Winn too while we're at it.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Trop is wheelchair accessible you know.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you get an offer like Randy Winn for Joe Maddon
YOU DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT AND NEVER LOOK BACK
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
by Some other guy who does not care on Jul 15, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen yes, Crawford no.
What pieces do we need? A catcher because the one we loves so much last year is struggling again this year? No. Pitching? No. infield? HELL NO. Outfield? Maybe a RF but then again we have Joyce in the wings waiting… and the Gabes are doing the job right now. So, I ask you, what pieces could we possible need? To trade just to trade, is retarded. We have a 10 mil option, which he is well worth, and try to work out some longer deal. Exercise the 10m, and if it looks like at this time next year he wont sign, THEN do what you have to do as a team.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
his profile has never been higher than right now.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you wait till mid season next year...
You will have zero leverage. Its like what happened with Teixeira. The Rangers traded him a full year and a half before his free agency and got a kings ransom. The Braves traded him a half season before his free agency and got Casey Kotchman.
by Erik Hahmann on Jul 15, 2009 8:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Im not a big fan of trades ...
because a team is afaid of paying some money. Take Percys contract off the table, and Bradford, and you practically have taken care of most of CC’s. If we get an established player, we will be getting into the same headache again… prospects are crap shoots, and we know what we have now.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop assuming the absolute worst. This is Friedman we're talking about, not Namoli.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*err, Sternberg
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually very funny through obscurity.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects aren't that big of crap shoots.
Have some of you people forgotten that Longoria, Crawford, Upton, Gross, Kapler, Pena, Navarro, Kazmir, Garza, Niemann, Price, and Howell were all top prospects at some point?
Some don’t work out, but this FO is more than capable of evaluating talent.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are, and I repeat
Still in the playoff hunt.
by Onecagedtiger on Jul 15, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you read the entire article?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why you in no way eluded to the upcoming 10 game road trip, I have no idea.
The result of that road trip will tell if they’re buyers or sellers. If they can close the gap to something that can be made up in a series vs. the Sox or Yankees, they’re buyers. If not, they’re sellers.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 8:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the focus for this trip needs to be absolutely unwavering.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's Pena's status with the team.
He’s locked up for through 2010, is that right? So I would assume we wouldn’t move him until possibly next year.
We have some pieces to move if we’re sellers obviously (CC, bullpen). If we’rebuyers, who are we looking to get (obviously a C) and what are willing to part with?
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Aki, Talbot, Niemann, and the Gabes are probably the most available pieces.
Niemann would have the highest value
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be surprised if there is a mid-season Aki buyer
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
and I know for the right price you would part with anyone, but would we dump Niemann that fast? I guess its possible with the stable of arms we have.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on the market, if you look at wins and ERA he looks pretty dARN GOOD
if you dig deeper, there is plenty of reason to assume he can’t maintain his recent success. Of course, this does not factor the potential for him to pitch bitter as he develops at the Major League level. It depends on the market but hes the kind of player a team will overbid on.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I’m not implying that the team would be giving up on Niemann. If anything, they’re going to take a good hard look at what happened with Edwin Jackson before they decide to trade another #5 starter with questionable peripheral statistics. But Niemann is the easiest to replace with depth from the minors (Hernandez and Davis both look like they could handle MLB right now).
If you trade either of the Gabes, you’re regulating the other to bench duty while you give Joyce most of the playing time, Talbot is still a minor-leaguer and isn’t going to be the final piece to anybody’s puzzle, and as stated, Aki’s coming off a pretty serious injury and nobody knows what to expect of him just yet.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that anybody would want Aki, only that he'd be available right now.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT:Anyone have a tel number for the Rays, where i can speak to a live person?
I’m listening to Stern show, and Artie Lange said he’d accept the offer from the Rays to throw out the 1st pitch if someone calls the show
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why the fuck would the Rays let Artie Lange throw out the first pitch?
I’m not a huge Artie Lange fan. When you’re that big of a fuck up, you better be hilarious… and he’s only mildly funny.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Artie, the Rays made the offer
by Raymondo on Jul 15, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They offered me too
I politefully declined
by nolesblogger on Jul 15, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artie's a wonderful source of honesty.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. I refuse.
I’m making a judgment right now.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would C.C. be traded now?
Forgetting all the cash Sternberg and co. stashed into his vault with their low $20’sM payroll is permeating throughout the discussion boards. Maybe this has something to do with managements self claim that they’re “tapped out.”
Why, on Gods green earth would you even think about trading away a 27 yr old player who is a 3-time All Star, and in the prime of his career when his contract, especially for next season is more than affordable?
From Cot’s baseball contracts:
Carl Crawford of
4 years/$15.25M (2005-08), plus 2009-10 club options
4 years/$15.25M (2005-08), plus 2009-10 club options
signed extension 4/05, replacing 1 year/$0.37M deal for 2005 which included a $20,000 bonus for reaching 500 PAs
$0.5M signing bonus
05:$0.5M, 06:$2.5M, 07:$4M, 08:$5.25M, 09:$8.25M club option ($2.5M buyout), 10:$10M club option ($1.25M buyout)
2010 salary may increase to $11.5M with escalators
$5.75M deferred, without interest ($1.25M in 2006, $2M in 2007, $2.5M in 2008)
$3.25M of 2009 option deferred without interest (or entire $2.5M buyout deferred without interest)
$4M of 2010 option deferred without interest
2010 option may increase up to additional $1.5M based on rank in MVP vote ($0.6M each for 1st-4th, $0.3M each for 5th-10th)
award bonus: $25,000 each for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger or LCS MVP; $50,000 each for WS MVP, Rookie of Year; $50,000 for All Star ($25,000 for selection); $0.1M for MVP ($50,000 for 2nd-4th in vote, $25,000 for 5th-10th)
assignment bonus: $0.8M if traded in 2005-06; $0.6M if traded 2007-08; $0.5M if traded 2009-10
Tampa Bay exercised 2009 option 4/1/08
1 year/$0.32M (2004)
1 year/$0.3M (2003)
agent: Brian Peters
ML service: 6.072
by J Roxby on Jul 15, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because there's little to no hope or resigning him in the future, we have assets that can replace his production - if not this year, within a year -
and we’d be selling him at what’s likely his highest value, reinforcing our minor league system and major league depth so we can continue to be competitive throughout the next 5-6 years.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When in the world did the Rays have a 20 million dollar payroll?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2003.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't under Sternberg though.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just answered the question. You're the one trying to shoot holes in his logic.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just read to that point and commented.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, I'll do it.
The lean year was 2003, under Vince Namoli. Sternberg invested in the team in may 2004 and took over decision making at the end of the 2005 season. Sternberg leaned-out the payroll in 2007, dropping it to 24.1M, and has pretty much tripled it in the last two years. CC’s contract was signed in April 2005 before Sternberg took over as principle owner.
Your point would make sense Roxby, except the timeline is wrong.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
STU LIED HE SAID HE WOULD RAISE PAYROLL EXACTLY 10% EVERY YEAR FOREVER!!
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing with the numbers a little more
IF he stuck to +10% every year since 2005, total payroll expenditures including this year would have been ~164.3M; payroll would have been 47.1M this year.
Actual Payroll expenditures, including this year since then are 172.8M.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm supporting your point.
YOU’RE AN ASSHOLE. STOP BEING A PUNK AND GO PLAY IN TRAFFIC.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how that guy thinks he is a cross between Charlie Bronson
and Vin Scully.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir!
The payroll was a guess-timation, I stand corrected. In the future I will quote exact figures.
My question is, where did all the money go from the lean years of low payroll? hating to approximate again – where did the $30M in revenue sharing each season disappear to? If it is being used now that is fine. Beyond the 2008-9 seasons this team has acrued some serious monetary gain from the MLB revenue sharing and luxury tax dollars. Therefor Crawford seems to be a shoe in if we multiply all the revenue/ luxury tax sharing dollars that the Rays have “pocketed” for lack of a better term.
With nothing being said VIA management I have to think that C.C. and the Rays are in negotiation for a long term deal. Carl’s a rich man, Rays management quite possibly is sitting down with him and looking at all alternatives considering this is a bear market as far as free agent signings beyond the Yanks. Case in point is Abreau’s 1 yr $4 million dollar deal when he was looking for a 3 year $50+ million dollar deal after the 2008 season.
by J Roxby on Jul 15, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naimoli did what the Marlins have done.
He pocketed the extra change from MLB.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably depends on the time period.
During the Naimoli years, the HIT SHOW and related contract payouts were spread over several years extending beyond the end of employment, so I would speculate a lot of the revenue sharing money (which increased significantly only after the 2002 labor agreement) went to paying down those awful contracts. At the same time, internal revenues were dropping as the original media and advertising contracts expired and attendance cratered.
Sternberg reinvested in the Trop, international operations, etc.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some pocketing going on too, but only the people with complete access to the books would know with any certainty.
by RATW on Jul 15, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that this whole concept is interesting enough that I'm going to try to do a fanpost on it tonight after work.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CRAWFORD, DAVIS, HELLICKSON, WHEELER, AND KANG.
BAM. DONESIES.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hit Jeter
I lol’d
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you're 5'6', 110 pounds, you gotta establish yourself.
And if that means taking down the Captain, it means putting the bitch in place.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping to get that sound of Jeter getting his pinkie plunked turned into a ringtone, can anyone help with that?
Fools are Yankee crazy up here, they didn’t like my drunken laughter too much.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posted this on the last thread, but it seems to be dying
Just my two cents on the Crawford topic:
I’ve been thinking about this "spending his entire career in the Bay" thing. It almost makes wonder about other teams who have tried to lock up the face of their franchise and had it backfire. For example, Todd Helton. He’s a great hitter and all but that team is a slave to his contract. They have little flexibility and would trade him in a heartbeat if they could. His huge salary and no-trade contract have become an anchor.
Point being, shelling out the kind of coin that will certainly be needed to lock up CC carries with it some serious risks. I love CC too and I’d love to see him in a Rays uniform for the rest of his career, but at what cost? Maybe we should learn something from the Rockies and get a great package of players while his value is at an all time high.
I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer to drink WAY too much of it.
by stpetelawyer on Jul 15, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, considering Andruw Jones earned a 18mil per year deal (which is close to Crawford's value), I can't see him taking a deal less than that.
Right now, our highest paid player is making what.. 10 million? 12 million? When you take into account eventually you’re going to have to get BJ to sign a longer term deal, you’re talking about a bit of an albatross for a guy who’s going to very, very good, but maybe not great.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember this economy
and when you do the deal is equally important. If the Rays are the only suitors, which is the case if they try to sign him this offseason rather than next, then the price will be better than having to compete with the bigmarket teams. A 4 yr, 40mil deal sounds about right. As much as Crawford wants to stay, and knowing how unsteady the economy is, this would be a very attractive deal, because if he has a down year next year, his free agent price plummets. He’s said all along that he wants to remain a Ray and create his own niche here…any ‘reasonable’ offer will probably be accepted.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just don't tell him about Fangraphs
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do both.
It’s not a “one or the other” type thing. Sell if you can, buy if you can.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What looks worse to the less statistically inclined, majority fanbase?
Trading him for prospects or “trying to re-sign him but ultimately failing?”
Honestly, it looks better to keep him around and try to sign him. I don’t think there’s any scenario we re-sign him, though.
by rglass44 on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a shit what those fuckwads think
Quit half assing it and jump on the DRB bandwagon already Jesus
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will say
if you are going to trade any recognizable player, it’s important to have good timing, aka the off-season. If the Rays trade a Bartlett or CC, it’s best to do it in the off-season. Angry mobs have time to let their emotions settle. Trading in mid-season will probably cause a downward spike in attendance.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with that, but if you're the Giants or the White Sox or some other bubble team
You’re willing to overpay now to get in the playoffs. Risks and rewards to both. I would prefer we wheel and deal in the offseason, but as a raper, we’re getting to my favorite time of the year.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"as a raper, we’re getting to my favorite time of the year"
isolated for out of context DRB post hall of fame
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you like
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we would see no effect then?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HIYO
wait that is really kind of sad
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny because people who would bitch about dealing Bartlett now are the same ones who never wanted him.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is assuming most fans react intelligently and not emotionally
most fans are ignorant. they have their favorite player, and that’s about it. Prospects is a negative term to a lot of people, esp. around here because it’s all we did for a decade. Now that the team has just made its rise to respectability, it would give the impression that we’ve taken a step back.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with no games there would at least be more time for things to settle
you can at least evaluate the whole off-season and see how we are still trying to be competitive. If you trade one of your most recognizable and talented players in mid-season, it gives the impression that you are quitting on the season. For a team just trying to get itself situated as a contending team, a fanbase can and probably will feel betrayed. It has been extremely difficult already to get butts in the seats. It could have a huge negative effect to trade Carl now. In the offseason at least there’s time for sanity to take place, as long as that isn’t the only move the Rays make.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good points, but frankly, this approach never worked for the Marlins.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the marlins traded everyone
their owner now would trade his own mother if it could save him a couple mil on the payroll and a prospect to be named later. I can hardly blame fans for not supporting a team that has had 2 fire sales within 1 decade.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two World Series wins
It sucks but the results speak for themselves, and now they have Manley
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
but they still can’t get butts in the seats. And the Rays are already loaded with talent. There is no need to trade CC. It’s about money. Catcher can be taken care of with a Niemann or Bartlett/Brignac. Pitching has Wade Davis and Hellboy among others ready. Infield is set with Zorilla playing well. There are better options to trade than CC, esp. with Upton wanting to go year-to-year and take the big money as soon as he’s a free agent right out of town.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do they need butts in the seats?
Revenue Sharing pays their payroll and most of their Operating Expenses. They could have no one come to a game and still turn a buck.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has to be a Molina out there we can sign.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LaRussa loves Yadier.
Which could make Bryan Anderson available.
Of course he’s struggling in Triple-A, but he’s only 22.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can have our 3rd broadcast guy interview him and cause a rift in the space time continuum
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Future league leader in smiles?

So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most popular DRB topics:
attendance, trading CC, anything by bgfour
Selgy
by mittens on Jul 15, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Correction
attendance, trading CC for a reliever, Edwin Jackson, anything by bgfour
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In honor of the WInn Pinella deal
can we trade Hickey for Edwin? Has this been explored?
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joke aside, I think MLB made a rule after that trade that says you can't trade positional players for managers anymore.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn you MLB
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
by Some other guy who does not care on Jul 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SELIG'D (or maybe even FEHR'D)
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on ZiPS for Carl and assuming Joyce is absolutely average.
As well as UZR/150
Crawford is worth 1 win more than Joyce over the next ~300 PAs.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
taking a look at Rays payroll the next couple seasons
it isn’t difficult to see how a CC extension fits. After this season, Percy and Bradford are off the books and Wheeler and Burrell next year. In 2011, Pena and Kazmir come off the books. Yes we have many players with raises coming (arbitration, other players starting to make more in team-friendly deals) but there’s enough wiggle room in there to keep CC as long as he’s not looking for a bigmarket contract. The Rays can afford a 4 yr 40 mil deal.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Crawford will be looking closer to 4 years/60 million. Which is fair to him.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You beat me to it.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he hits the open market, you're exactly right
but players sometimes take less than that in extensions. In fact, I’d say most extensions are signed for less than what a player could get if he waited to be a free agent. That’s the trade off. Long term deal now since you don’t know what would happen a year from now (play, injury, etc), and the team signs you for less now than what they would if they had to compete with other offers a year from now.
4 yrs, 40 mil may not be what he would make with the Yankees or Red Sox, but it may still be enough for him to stay in St. Pete
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 15, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering his 2010 option is for 10.125m, I'd say you'd have to land in-between 10 and 15m.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5/60 would be equally doable.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not opposed to trading Carl
but if we arent blown away, why dont we just take the compensatory picks? I mean 2 years from now Deezy should be ready and, call me crazy, but the outfield of Joyce, BJ, and Deezy makes me go from 6 to midnight. I say market him, but if its not there, dont force it and be happy with the picks.
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 15, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you weren't busy having sexy with 12 year old boys and have your feet loofa'd by slaves,
you would realize that is the nature of the discussion.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ive actually read the whole thread
but Im pretty sure no one has said exactly this. Im sorry for wasting your time though. That is exactly what I did not want to do because I know youre really busy at work
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this made me actually lol
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned a thousand times.
And you know having sexy is when you have the little boy wax your pubes and then wear them as a moustache.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh right totally forgot
I mean we havent done it in so long. ANd whats wrong with making my point even if someone else has said it? And whats wrong with me lying about reading the entire thread?
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 15, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because I hate you and I want you to die in a terrible boating accident.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, we won on Monday, 6-2 or something like this. It was quite possibly the worst game ever played.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
get a room, rj and raymondo
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
teach me *sniffle*
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you give up the Scum and join the Yid Army.
Then we can rule the galaxy, as father and son.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'LL NEVER JOIN YOU! NEVER!
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think all these death wishes are catching up
I mean Im on vacation for a week and I get sick the whole time. I think youre going to feel terrible when I croak before I get home and we dont get to “having sexy” one more time
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 15, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, that was funny
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats been my point
It’s not evil to test the waters. Its evil to not test the waters.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's weighing the costs...
Keeping Crawford will cost the Rays about $15 million. From that, they’ll get a year and a half of production and two draft picks.
Trading Crawford will save about $15 million and they’ll most likely get enough talent to make up for the the draft picks.
Can the Rays makeup Crawford’s on field value with $15 million and the difference over the players coming in trade and the picks?
by tallyray on Jul 15, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we absolutely can
If he produces like he did this year for the next 5 years? maybe not. But if is his expected, be it small, decline does in fact happen I think we can and will.
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 15, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, realistically, what would we have a shot at getting?
A prospect somewhere between 16-30, with a veteran or available catcher?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
realistically
professional baseball player at minimum
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 15, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about we call up the Atlanta Braves, who are trying to make the playoffs and have a terrible outfield.
They give us Schafer or Hernandez, plus David Ross, plus maybe some lower level arm.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a rock.

Into the Wall : Sarcasm for the Soccer Guy
by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 15, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OT: Briggy starting at short in AAA ASG on the Deuce at 10pm, Thayer out of the pen
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, there are a bunch of dumbasses in here
U know who U R
by zeng8r on Jul 15, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad we get paid per comment.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you still want to make t-shirts.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one likes you, brown noser.
Cut your hair, get a job, and here’s a nickel. Go buy yourself a gumball, ya twat.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT-THE-FUCK-EVER. I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL WE TRADE HIM FOR A RELIEVER.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is going to need a "Buyers/Sellers Part Duex" at this rate
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bgfour, attendance, trading Crawford, trading relievers, more Bucs comments than Buc Em, this has had it all
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH SHAPZ Buc Em!
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to make this point earlier
Lulz, sorry Buc Wild
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
callhimtaternuts
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It happens
I knew that going into it. The bandwagon idiots will be along soon enough.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It drove off a cliff
I was at that Oakland game last year, wow, just wow.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't blame them.
People bitch about going to Rays game, but the price of a Bucs game is absolutely ridiculous, not to mention it’s hot as tits out. To watch a team play uninspired in all facets of the game at that price… fuck that, yo, I’ll grill out and watch from home.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't missed a home game in 11 years.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cuz you dumb dawg
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You dead dawg.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah homie I got my west siiiiide riders
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true.
I’m the exception.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've researched the price before, it was cheaper to go to a Steelers Game last year then a Bucs game; it would have been cheaper to go to a Giants game if parking wasn't twice as much in NJ as it is here.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that still true re: Steelers/Bucs?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just asking. I didn't know if the Steelers raised prices.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea. I bitched about prices last year. I've absolutely, positively stopped caring this year.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAMMY
Beers on my couch with a steak in my stomach sounds pretty good right about now.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Monday night Carolina game
was what crashed the bandwagon, the overwhelming pessimism after that game was unbelievable. I havent lived anywhere else really, but I have to think this general area has the quickest trigger finger in hopping on or off the collective bandwagon.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU ARE CORRECT SIR
RIP Big Ed
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A thread like this builds the case that we can make use of all-purpose OT threads.
The fact that it doesn’t happen daily shows the exact opposite.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have front page access right?
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just a mod, no author rights.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh
Well bitch more, I could wrap my brain around ideas for an OTTOTD. you could always create a fanshot, just remember to be controversial if you want people to comment, I recommend paternity tests.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for OT threads.
Fanpost/fanshot/occasional off-day front page post. I don’t mind it.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, I think the OT stuff develops better organically.
Having an designated OT topic would be gay.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't ever recall anybody seeding OT stuff since I've been here
But I’m in no particular mood to add to my daily responsibilities by having to generate content for the site as well.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I WANT THINGS, BUT NOT HAVE TO WORK FOR THEM, DADDY CAN I BORROW THE CAR. Someday you will make an excellent house husband for some bitch of a lawyer chick
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I wanted a daily OT thread.
And I can’t even come up with a witty retort to that comment. This site is raping my productivity today.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I have literally done nothing.
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You wouldn't have to make them daily.
Make one, have it last until 1,000 comments, then make a new one or have someone else do it.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or until it gets bumped off the front page.
Fine. I’ll give it a shot.
Not today.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay!! He's been inspired!
Good luck with this project!
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Project bahahaha
I think that’s the first time you’ve made me laugh FreeZo
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WILL TRY HARDER
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the stained jizm on my bedroom floor has more intelligence, wit, and candor than Buc Em.
No offense, Buc Wild. Love you.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Under New Management
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it should be UNDER CONSTRUCTION!?
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just the temporary gate keeper
and with an audience of 3 people daily, I don’t see it lasting much longer.
Too bad, maybe I’m not as interesting or insightful as I thought.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I visit Buc'Em more now than I did before.
It’s a down time for football, don’t worry about the day-to-day visits either.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed the joke.
I don’t go there because bgfour and TheUltimateBucFan post there. That’s pretty much all there is to it.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should trade for Zaun right this moment
I’ve seen some people mention this. Also there was a mention that this good offset the loss of CC. Honestly I think that is flawed logic. We should trade for Zaub because he is cheap (and easy to acquire) and will be a serious upgrade. Zaun and CC are two independent deals that will occur for independent reasons. If get Zaun and keep CC we will be 1 win better than wht we are now. Sure we will be the same as now if we get Zaun and deal CC; but that is 1 win less than an easily achievable maximum.
Either way trade for Zaun right this minute. If our return for Hammel and Dukes was a big bag of dog crap then I’m sure we can ship some similar crap up there to get Zaun.
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you misunderstood that point.
I’m saying if we can acquire Zaun for cheap and get a great deal for Carl, there’s no reason not to do both, and they essentially cancel out this half-season. Meaning A) we’re not giving up, B) we’re getting better in the future.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, a trade for Zaun makes all kinds of sense.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do it.
Ruggiano is a spare part.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm saying. He's a pretty solid 4th outfielder for them and Zaun's redundant now that Wieters is up.
Hell, Ruggs might outplay Pie.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
He has no spot here in the near future. Or in the distant future for that matter.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same with Baltimore really.
He’d be a fourth outfielder at best in either spot.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AF: Why are you still here? You're worthless. You make me sick.
JR: Because I’ve got no place else to go!
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we get some crappy Hernandez guy for Hammel then we certainly can give even bigger crap for Zaun
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah whatever
Give them that Rodriguez character
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zaun and Markakis for Craw straight up.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
My point is we can easily be 1 win better by just getting Zaun and standing pat. Anything less than that is not fieldig the best possible team for 2009. Of course it may be in the best long term interest. I’m not opposed to trading CC, but if we want to win big this year then we keep him and get Zaun. That gives us our best chance.
I think the key point is we can get Zaun for like freaking Wade Townsend.
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no argument here.
I want Zaun no matter what happens with Crawford.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The man's ripped, too.
He could show Navi a thing or two about working out.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My ideal situation: Get Zaun for a box of rocks
Then trade Navi + CC to a stupid GM of a contending team for essentially the kingdom of Atlantis.
by matthan on Jul 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVERYONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT THIS JEEBUS FUCKING CHRIST
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zaun and trading for a C and prospects were two different ideas
We do need a C upgrade regardless
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going back to the original article
how many of those teams that were 5-8 games back that made the playoffs had two teams in front of them? I’d think it might be a bit easier chasing one down, but becomes a bit more difficult with two teams in front.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Jul 15, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that we have
8 games left vs. Boston
and
5 games left vs. New York
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they have a lot of games versus Toronto left, I think.
’Nucks owe us, we saved their asses.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fucking Canada Day.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blame Canada!
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we sell, I'm gonna be pissed.
We know something you don't know
And if we don't share then we don't grow
Unabomber set the whole world on fire
by Orlando Rays on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
THIS AIN'T A SCENE IT'S A GOD DAMN ARMS RACE!
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Jesus.
Could you have a picked a shittier band?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all live in a yellow submarine
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could've picked Coldplay or Aerosmith or Nickelback
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nickelback makes me want to go General Sherman across this whole GD country
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Clocks is epic
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a Coldplay sheet music book for when I played in the club.
I played it only when I wanted the few people left in the restaurant to leave so I could go home.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I went to an all white school
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That old lady loses all hope in the future right as he flashes the sign.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the guy behind me...the rapist...
when I went to the bathroom he walked up to me in the concourse and was like “My friend says you are in front of me getting major t.v. time. Better watch out!” I wasn’t that scared but now I am fearing my life. Also at the game last night a dude came up to me and said he saw me on t.v. throwing up west side…lulz
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We tried warning you.
Guy was mimicking you’re every move.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 15, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He really was.
Creeper FTL
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scary as fuck
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enjoy your 15 mins
You can never get them back
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH I will.
The best is my mom is totally clueless to everything I did.
Swav or Die
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 15, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I get that feeling too.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's thinking to herself, "At least he isn't on the pot."
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just seems sometimes like she doesn't even know I'm there.
Sex is still great though.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like a proud papa.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colby Rasmus, Bryan Anderson, and Brett Wallace for CC and Wheeler.
Pujols get another shot at a championship, we get good value and freed up cash.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I get that St. Louis probably doesn't want to spend the cash, but that's a good deal for them, right?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of those guys are going to help Pujols compete for a championship in the next two years.
They HAVE to keep Pujols, or they’re fucked.
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a legit conversation, if we could take on the salary (which I think would pay for itself)
what would you give up for Pujols?
CC, Price, Davis, Moore, and Kang? More? Less?
by Suttree on Jul 15, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC in the NL could be all kinds of win.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please
SOSH AUCTION to K ALS
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 15, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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