CC trade rumors...

by td32 on Jul 18, 2009 5:02 PM EDT

I have no idea how reputable this person is, or his blog..... But he is speculating that Andrew Friedman and Brian Sabean have been involved in some serious trade talks involving Carlos Pena and/or Carl Crawford. The prospect they are supposedly discussing is Madison Bumgarner. Just for shits and giggles, lets assume these trade talks are occurring, would you do a CC for Bumgarner trade....

http://bayareasportsmachine.blogspot.com/2009/07/giants-in-trade-talks-with-thed-rays.html

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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Great prospect, but we need to be unloading pitchers

Not adding them. Change the name to Posey and I’m game

by matthan on Jul 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions

Change the name to Smoak and I'm game.

Jeter Sucks.

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 18, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Not going to get the other guys to play the game for either stud position player prospect.

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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 18, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I know. I just figure if we're going to dream over getting stud position player prospet

we should dream over Smoak. He’d be the best one out there.

Jeter Sucks.

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 19, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Heyward > Smoak

Stanton too.

by daveh33 on Jul 19, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

You can never have enough top shelf arms

Done deal.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Jul 18, 2009 6:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

My first reaction was the same as matthan

but after reading the post and looking at it a little bit….yeah that would be a good deal for us considering contract values.

I could be wrong though

by staplemaniac on Jul 18, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions

You can if it means your lineup is full of replacement level players.

Obviously we aren’t near that point.

Bumgarner is a top 10 pitching prospect, those have market values around 15 mil, if you figure Crawford’s due for ~6 WAR over this and next year, and a Type-A ranking, he’s worth ~15 mil.

I’d rather have Posey, but there’s almost zero chance that happens.

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 18, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

This kid is 19 yrs old and in AA

do it.

by behn on Jul 18, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions

Pena on the other hand...

by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 18, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions

You can't trade Carlos.

He’s the team’s smile.

Trade him and you’re taking us back to the days of satanists, like Chris Truby.

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 18, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Zobie at first seems like a waste of resources.

Aybar?

SOSH AUCTION to K ALS

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 18, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Worrying about who plays first base is a great problem to have.

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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 18, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I would think they'd want to hold on to a top flight pitcher

and part with a catcher, even if he looks like the real deal. Posey would look sweet in a Rays uni. Can subtract more salary this way by either trading or non-tendering Navarro in the offseason.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 18, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

I would like to see him fed to feral dogs.

SOSH AUCTION to K ALS

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 18, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd be happy if we could get Posey

But I suspect the Giants would be perfectly happy with just moving Sandoval to 3B or 1B, both of which he can play at an acceptable enough level.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 18, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Do it

And hope you can get Thomas Neal in the deal as well.

for

Bumgarner and Neal

JESUS H. CRIST!

by RWRays on Jul 18, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

I'd take Bumgarner and a C+ prospect for CC

At the end of the day, the difference between CC and Joyce over a season and a half is probably only about 3 wins, and Bumgarner projects as no worse than an ace reliever (and if he can develop a third pitch, more like a #2 starter), although it would leave us with scarily little depth in the outfield if someone gets hurt.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 18, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions

Free Jon Weber!!!

I kid.

Gross for an everyday position! (no offense, Kapler)

by BWoodrum on Jul 19, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Wouldnt be the worst thing in the world,

but pitchers who are that young scare me. I really dont know what I’d do with Carl, but I dont like the risk associated with just one very young (although extremely talented) starting pitcher being the return. Too much potential for it to blow up in our face. I know the general consensus is (as it should be) quality over quantity, but I’d even rather see multiple high-risk/high-reward types come back because it just gives us more bullets to shoot randomly if my poorly delivered analogy goes understood.

Overall I dont like to pull the trigger on the deal that I wouldnt do if I were on either side (If it all game down to it I wouldnt do it as the Giants or as the Rays).

I actually like Joyce, and anything to have as a reason to get the Gabes full time playing time and Aybar more at bats, but I would rather see 3-4 top 150 propsects than one top 5. (problem is lack of trading partner).

by Navi's_Navy on Jul 18, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions

bumgarner and price and moore in the same rotation

just made me splooge

by daveh33 on Jul 18, 2009 8:39 PM EDT reply actions

I don't see why trading CC automatically means Joyce

This year we’d probably move Ben to the OF and play Aybar at 2nd.

by matthan on Jul 19, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions

Don't forget our good friend Nando will be trading his pen for a bat pretty soon

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jul 19, 2009 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions

OT: Has he written anything else since that first article?

Gross for an everyday position! (no offense, Kapler)

by BWoodrum on Jul 19, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions

I really want to see him step up to the plate to the Price is Right theme song.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 19, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

this works too

by Navi's_Navy on Jul 19, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

So say we get Baumgarner; then the pressure to trade Neimann, Sonny, Davis, Hellickson will increase

We would really be backed into a corner to trade some of those guys. If the giants could net CC for Baumgarner then we should get something pretty good for each of those guys. Yeah they aren’t as good as Baumgarner, but they aren’t chopped liver either. What would we get for our pitchers? Would it be worth it?

by matthan on Jul 19, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions

given our tendancy to take it slow I'd be surprised to see Bumgarner putting any real pressure on until 2011/2012

so guys like Sonny/Niemann should already have their futures figured out and we should have a good idea about Davis. Bumgarner is young enough that I wouldn’t be too worried about it. To me the one he will conflict with in terms of development is Hellickson/Heath Rollins (Moore and Barnese are behind and Niemann/Sonny/Davis are ahead.

by Navi's_Navy on Jul 19, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

A little off topic here, but I run a money dynasty league, that needs a new Baltimore Orioles owner

League just started up a couple months ago, and isn’t playing in 2009, but will start in 2010. League has some of the best owners from around this blog, leagues ive played in and others. Its a 16 team H2H points based with the buy in for next year being $25(going up the years after). Here is a link to the website.
http://baseballheaven.proboards.com/index.cgi

As you can see we have a great looking site and are looking for a new Baltimore Orioles team. The team is stacked with young talent, and needs an owner ready to take over and win!
Just to give you an insight on what we started with: each team kept 10MLB players and 5MILB players. We are finishing up both drafts(MLB and MILB) where we put together a 35 man roster complied of both MLB and MILB players. You have the option to add 5 more players for a complete 40 man roster.

My email is andrew.j.batson@gmail.com or my YIM: jombarii311 or AIM: fishingtilnoon

If you are interested please reach me through one of those sources. I am lookin for someone who is going to be on constantly and wants to make deals for a good up and coming orioles team.

by Jombari on Jul 19, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions

Why not trade Garza?

I would just love to see one of our pitchers become great with another team again.Why trade Crawford when one of our major spots of need is offense?Stats say we score a lot of runs but thats just from our beginning of the season blowout 10+ run games.Our offense really isnt that good and taking Crawford away wont help.

by thedudeofdudes on Jul 19, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions

You're on drugs. Our offense is legit, but as Elijiah Dukes showed

prone to a high variation. LINK

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 19, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm not super excited about a pitching prospect for CC.

Especially one in AA. Pitching has so much inherent risk to it, and boy howdy do we need some positional depth (esp. at the C). I understand the logic behind the move, and I’m not a TRADING CC WILL KEEP FANS AWAY person, but I would like to think we could get a premium position prospect.

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Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 20, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions

Of the Giants prospects, I'd rather get Posey, if possible

Smoak is a complete pipe dream though. I’d stay away from Villalona though. He comes off like Guzman 2.0 to me.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 20, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Of course, it's unlikely that anyone would give up a completely premium prospect like Posey or Bumgarner

It just doesn’t happen that much, and when it does, it’s usually either because of a massive logjam (i.e. Saltalamacchia) or because the prospect’s reputation has taken a big hit recently (i.e. Hanley Ramirez).

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 20, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions

What about Maybin/Miller?

Carlos Santana was on the verge (if only we could have traded a crappy player for him). I guess these guys wren’t top 10 when traded, but they weren’t that far off.

by rglass44 on Jul 20, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Add in the fact that Detroit had to eat Willis' contract and it's further proof that Beinfest may be the best GM in the game.

Support the Type Strong Movement, Like This Little Lady Does
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 20, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybin-Miller, sure

But that was for Miguel Cabrera and plus an all-star who’d been near the top of Cy Young voting a couple times (looking at it from a less educated perspective). Maybe we could get that kind of haul for Crawford AND Kazmir, but (a) the Giants don’t need Kazmir and (b) the Rays do.

Santana wasn’t really a top prospect at the time he got traded. Top 50 maybe, but he really blew up after he got traded.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 20, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

No doubt the packages were vastly different.

I just wanted to point to a few that might be somewhat similar in their “elite status.”

by rglass44 on Jul 20, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm with you. Pitching prospects are too volitile, that's why the Rangers got 3 for Teixeria

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Jul 20, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Problem is that CC isn't worth a premium position player prospect.

(Well, depending what you mean by “premium”.) CC’s contract and production put his savings at about $15M through 2010. Expected value of top 10 pitching prospect (like Bum)? $15M. Expected value of top 25 hitting prospect? $25M. Top 10 hitting prospect? $35M.

You’re right that Bum isn’t a steal or a clear win or a good choice given the Rays are competing this year. (Ignoring CC’s talented replacements.) But it’s unlikely a team will give up much more. Not against it if they do, of course ; )

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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 20, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Frankly, I don't think most GMs look at the game in those terms

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 20, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you getting those numbers from Victor Wang's research?

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 20, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes.

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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 20, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

You're probably right.

I bet many get close “accidentally”, though.

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by Sky Kalkman on Jul 20, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Where was LaPorta ranked last year?

That got Sabathia for half a year….

by matthan on Jul 20, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Is Crawford a Sabathia-Cabrera level player?

Yes, I know there’s an argument that can be constructed when you look at total value, but that’s not how he’s perceived, and he’s not going to get that kind of haul.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 20, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 20, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

I agree if we are getting a prospect I want one who is a position player and not another pitcher who has tons of potential. I doubt they ever part with Buster Posey.

by gatoralex911 on Jul 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions