The Rays Are Looking for a Third Team in a Cliff Lee Deal; Have Interest in Mike Wuertz, Rafael Betancourt, and Jason Frasor
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
251 comments
Indians general manager Mark Shapiro is asking for multiple high-end prospects in return for the left-hander. He is believed to prefer right-hander Wade Davis as the primary chip in the deal. So far, the Rays have balked at including him.
The Rays are trying to involve a third team in an attempt to satisfy Cleveland's prospect demands, major league sources told FOXSports.com senior baseball writer Ken Rosenthal. The third club would provide a second pitcher of the Indians' liking.
Tampa Bay has also shown interest in a number of relievers, sources said, including Cleveland's Rafael Betancourt, Toronto's Jason Frasor and Oakland's Michael Wuertz.
I absolutely love Wuertz. He's having more success now than in the past (same with Frasor) but he's always been a solid reliever. A quick look at each folloing the jump.
Michael Wuertz
Vitals: Right-handed, 30-years-old
Contract: Signed for 1.1 million this year, eligible for arbitration this season, and a free agent after 2011.
Scouting: Throws primarily a nasty slider and 90-92 MPH fastball.
Stats:
| Year | IP | FIP | tRA |
| 2009 | 46.3 | 2.1 | 1.67 |
| 2008 | 44.7 | 4.3 | 5.43 |
| 2007 | 72.3 | 3.94 | 3.47 |
Rafael Betancourt
Vitals: Right-handed, 34-years-old
Contract: 5.4 million club option for next season.
Scouting:Throws a 91-93 fastball, slider, and occasionally a change-up.
Stats:
| Year | IP | FIP | tRA |
| 2009 | 30.7 | 3.7 | 3.32 |
| 2008 | 71 | 4.4 | 4.69 |
| 2007 | 79.3 | 2.22 | 1.74 |
Jason Frasor
Vitals: Right-handed, 31-years-old
Contract: Eligible for free agency following 2010.
Scouting:Throws a 93-95 fastball, slider, and a split-finger fastball.
Stats:
| Year | IP | FIP | tRA |
| 2009 | 35 | 2.59 | 2.68 |
| 2008 | 47.3 | 4.55 | 5.78 |
| 2007 | 57 | 3.17 | 3.64 |
---
As you can tell, relievers are volatile. Each offers one poor seasons in the past three, yet have the reputation of solid relievers. Why? Because the sample size of innings is usually so low that we can't say a ton of things with a degree of confidence. Here's how some other metrics stack the trio up:
| Pitcher | GB% | SwStr% | K% | uBB% |
| Betancourt | 30.9 | 13.1 | 24.8 | 8.8 |
| Wuertz | 43.8 | 19.8 | 33.9 | 6.7 |
| Frasor | 31.5 | 9.7 | 23 | 6 |
So much for a boring deadline.
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After the game on July 29, we'll know a lot more about our chances this year
and where we stand
Go Rays
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Is next week the most important week in the Rays season? Trade deadline, and 3 at home against the Yanks. Need to pull “a Mealoaf”
by TallMatt on Jul 23, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't want to do anything for love?
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 23, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, let me sleep on it, baby, baby, let me sleep on it
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you an answer in the morning.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I GOTTA KNOW RIGHT NOW
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a great song.
I’ll add that to my zunepass when I get home.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to nominate this thread for a RayBee.
How many other threads feature Meat Loaf quotes?
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You shut your god damn mouth.
We don’t have time for your hippity hop.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two out three ain't bad, I believe.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rock and Roll Dreams Come True
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fly like a Bat Outta Hell
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee would be paradise by the dashboard light
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jul 23, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It Never Felt So Good, It Never Felt So Right
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You kissed a girl?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jul 23, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is there no talk about getting a catcher?
We should try to get Martinez in the deal.
by StoneCrab on Jul 23, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's been a TON of talk about getting a catcher.
The staff did several posts on acquiring Greg Zaun. In the other thread, the idea of trading for Martinez has been discussed.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok. dont read the site that much
just heard about Hallady/Lee from Mlbtraderumors and Espn – no talk of catchers there
by StoneCrab on Jul 23, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martinez
Victor would probably cost as much as Lee…not like he’s easy to add to any trade.
by TallMatt on Jul 23, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
It’s much more likely we get a Zaun type than an elite hitting catcher.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we get Zaun like right now?
Whats the holdup?
Kap-rilla???
by Sveet on Jul 23, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly
Martinez and Maddon don’t get along too well!
by plasticman on Jul 23, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were going to only have players on a team that got along with each other
Teams would be small
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 23, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 way with
Orioles? and collect Lee and Zaun
by Price14 on Jul 23, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MICHAEL WUERTZ IS CLEANING OUT HIS LOCKER
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 23, 2009 11:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
OMGZZ
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MICHAEL WUERTZ IS IN STUART'S BOX .OH MY GOOD--GOODNESS GRACIOUS! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS--OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN, MICHAEL WUERTZ STANDING RIGHT IN STUART STERNBERG'S BOX. MICHAEL WUERTZ IS A TAMPA BAY RAY!
Kap-rilla???
by Sveet on Jul 23, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this
the draysbay sarcasm showing up? I’m new, im trying to find out if your serious.
by Price14 on Jul 23, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone types things in all caps, it's most likely sarcastic.
I would go as far as to say almost certainly.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also entirely in the header.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't do the LOL thing though.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chatspeak in general.
Except the occasional GFTO or DIAF or BTW. But that’s mostly in the Game-Day Threads or GDT for short.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
QUESTION 2: WHY DO YOU PERVERT THAT WHICH IS PRECIOUS AND PURE SUCH AS LOL TO THE KIDS???
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It takes a little time.
I would say 2/3 comments on here are sarcastic, or some extension of a meme.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a paraphrase of the Roger Clemens comes back to the Yankees bit.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 23, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya it's a joke
susan waldman bit
Kap-rilla???
by Sveet on Jul 23, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what? Fuck you, and fuck your tea.
/susie essmen’d
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wuertz's slider literally brings blood into the vessels of my dick
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 23, 2009 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You're new right?
That’s a meme, sort of. Last year there were reports we were trading for Huston Street and someone claimed “STREET IS CLEANING OUT HIS LOCKER.”
It’s been trampled to death since then.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was me.
As a joke.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heater
Roster move pending? Thayer on way
Heard that RHP Dale Thayer is in Chicago, but it’s not clear yet what roster move the Rays are going to make. Obviously the condition of RHP Chad Bradford’s back is a key part of this.
by walkoffwalk on Jul 23, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would assume so.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing that Bradford's DL bound
Kap-rilla???
by Sveet on Jul 23, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GIVE US THAYER, OR GIVE US DEATH
Now leave him up this time!
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
I wonder if Cleveland would take Thayers mustache in a deal for Lee and Martinez, it’s got to be worth a couple of prospects on its own.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 23, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in a shock move, thayer will replace dioner navarro as tonights catcher
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 23, 2009 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this was Wade Boggs at first.
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can
you not like a guy with a straight beast-like mustache?
by Price14 on Jul 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, and he's actually a legitimately good reliever.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
he is the best player on the rays no doubt lol
by Price14 on Jul 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hillman vs Thayer in a mustache war
WHO WINS
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Handlebar > Pornstache
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Jul 23, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No stache anymore
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DONT YOU LIE
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God it is like Friedman reads my mind
Here is the three team I proposed
Rays get: Cliff Lee, VMart, Teagarden/Salty
Rangers get: Jeff Niemann, PtB
Indians get: Wade Davis, Jacob McGee, Dioner Navarro, Martin Perez, Eric Hurley
Of course maybe make a few adjustments. But that is the three teams that should be involved.
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa.
You’re proposing we trade three starters?
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we get Cliff Lee
And McGee is most likely a reliever
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
So the Rangers trade two top pitching prospects and Salty for Niemann.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They aren't two top pitching prospects
Hurley is lucky to be top 20 in their system now
Sickles has Perez as 10th in their system and Hurley as 20th
Plus they get PtB in this scenario. It can be adjusted of course. It is just a general framework
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martin perez is probs their second best pitching prospect now.
The kid is amazing.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I mean the prospect names can be adjusted
It is just a basic framework. If Perez is too good then they can go to someone else. Either way two B/C type guys + Teagarden for Niemann and PtB
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Victor Martinez is not a throw-in
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wuertz
has the highest swinging strike % in the league correct? God I love me some swings and misses.
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You love swings and misses?
Reflects your love life. HIYO.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I play
Wiffle ball sitting someone down is so much fun
by Price14 on Jul 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Cliff Lee is going to be the difference for us.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's be honest here: there are few players who are "the difference" at this point.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where you been all day?
i say that and get attacked
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And "the difference" is different than "a difference".
You add Lee, you add Zaun, you add a piece from Triple AAA to the pen, you’ve improved the team 3-4 wins. That’s a difference.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's my point.
I wouldn’t give up a Davis/Brignac/etc package for him.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
I mean it all depends on the what we have to give up
Kap-rilla???
by Sveet on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has present value, which is important.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To whom?
If he’s not going to help us get to the playoffs this year, we’re not going to trade him in the off-season. If we’re 4.5 back in 2010 and he’s with Cleveland and we trade Hellickson + Kang for a half-season of him, that’s fine IMO.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
2 wins raises our playoff odds to the 50% range. How does that not help us get near the playoffs?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what about how it impacts everyone else?
Does Niemann get booted from the rotation and potentially kill any trade value this off-season? Does Price get sent to Durham and (potentially) mess with his development or to the bullpen, thus limiting his innings and theoretically causing him to have to throw fewer innings next year?
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Niemann might get traded too? I don't know.
We’re talking about the Rays FO. They’re six steps ahead of us.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Kaz may get moved.
That may be why they are trying to involve a third team.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is my point all along
Niemann is the wild card. His trade value is pretty strong. If we move him to the pen we lose that value.
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ RJ, you actually are telling them what i've been all morning
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not what you were saying.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suttree, he's telling you in mubers what i've said verbally
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RaymondoJ Anderson
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no.
You said Cliff Lee wouldn’t make a difference.
RJ is saying Cliff Lee WOULD make a difference, because he’d be worth about 2 wins, which would up our playoff chances to about 50%.
And that’s ignoring the offensive stuff.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WINS, WAIT WE AREN'T TALKING WAR ARE WE?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, if you're looking for a sure thing, you aren't getting one.
Even Pujols is only (only?) upgrading the team by ~3-4 wins at this point.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, that's my point.
I wouldn’t give up Davis/Brignac/whatever because I don’t think we’re making the playoffs this year anyway.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And next year?
Six win pitchers aren’t coming around for 8 million very often.
I love Brignac and like Davis, but this is a pretty enticing idea.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do we do when Bartlett goes back to a sub-.700 OPS
Would be nice to have Reid to at least platoon there.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're worried about our nine hitter, then we're in decent shape.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's our 9 hitter who has also been, what, our 3rd best hitter?
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
You don’t think he’d help us reach the playoffs this season?
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, no.
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another voice of reason--Praise the Lord
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone knows the odds are against us right now.
Either we can hope that ~30-40% shot works out for us, or we can try and get better now.
Don’t you always talk about how we young folk look to the future too much?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me? i just don't see us getting there this year
and i don’t see where Lee helps with our biggest concern
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offense duh
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you SRo, pretty obvious to MOST
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lulz
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lulz?
Trying to pick up on the meme around here…a lil help?
by timmyj on Jul 23, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A direct message on twitter from local radio host Duemig
BigDogwdaeIcon_locksay good night now a-hole. take your know it all ass back to blogsphere and stay there. I must have the lulz
This was after I posted his tweets…“for the lulz”
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know, and overlooking some of the facts
and we all have is pretty narrow minded
this team padded it’s numbers in blowouts, which have ceased
the low scoring games have been there all year, but individual numbers were exaggerated by the blowouts
check our Runn diff on June 15 and now
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK so what does the FO do about it?
How do we improve the offense?
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that may help slightly.
That doesn’t all of a sudden turn the offense around like Sternfan wants.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Navi is out 2nd best hitter in July
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why the arbitrary date?
Why not June 14th? May 15th?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what do you propse we do about it?
Pack it in for the year? The offense isn’t changing next year, either.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Desmond and Joyce...
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't CC and the Gabes doing fine though?
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are they upgrades over?
Do you think Desmond Jennings is going to go on a hot streak after jumping Triple A to MLB than BJ, who’s posted a 380 OBP in the prior two seasons, is going to go on one?
Joyce an upgrade over the best LFer in the game, or the 4th best RF if you count our platoon as one guy?
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but to suggest the offense isn't changing isn't smart
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
STERNFAN's issues were not with the gabe's or CC...
Not today anyway.
by rglass44 on Jul 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ is a AA player Joyce has slipped quite a bit
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His OPS b4 yesterday was a very pedestrian 833 for AAA
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH NO NOT .833
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jul 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes past his prime
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who needs to be replaced
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
POWER ARM
he already said this
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But not Balfour!
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...He Hasn't?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jul 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because regardless of your view of the offense
a pitcher worth 2 wins the rest of the year doesnt help us period. Its not like we showed last year that good starting pitching will always keep you in games. And were not getting a good SP out of this deal. Oh wait!
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Joe Morgan!
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Jul 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya thats what I was saying
I dont see how someone could sit here and say they dont understand how getting Lee would help us win more games this year
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, nobody's saying that
We’re saying we don’t think Lee gets us to the playoffs, and getting him has some other negative effects(my point about Niemann’s trade value).
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is saying Lee gets us to the playoffs.
But 1.5 seasons of him upgrades our chances by a hell of a lot.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I don't think the package that it would take to get him
is worth trading, at least now(maybe in the offseason or next deadline at a lower price).
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jul 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we woudl have him next year, which greatly increases the chance
So much less $ than the good Doc
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We only have one offensive position to upgrade.
That would be catcher.
PtB has been poor, we aren’t replacing him. You know that. The offense is mostly fine, B.J. went through a slump, as did Longo, as did Pena. We know they all run the risk of getting cold and hot together.
Simply put: there’s one offensive position we can trade for, and it’s generally the hardest to find help at.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistically? He's worth 1.5-2.0 wins.
Otherwise? He makes our rotation better and he goes deep in games, which will help our bullpen. I think it’s a difference maker.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, and please don't take this the wrong way
how does he help us win games when we score three or less runs?
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By holding the opponent to two or less?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word, which would be huge.
I love me Wade Davis, but the chances he bursts out of the gate with a 6 win season is tiny.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the time Lee leaves Price should be fine.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word.
And in all likelihood Hellickson and maybe McGee will be ready by then.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if we're worried about re-stocking the farm system...
Carl, Kaz, and Garza could all be dealt between this off season and 2012 to do that.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we're going to be aggressive in the draft.
We’ll be fine.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And dont forget theres that guy named Carl
that Friedman could absolutely fleece someone with
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohs nos
oops. but I clarified it. now everyone understands what you meant.
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wuertz
K% 31.74%
eK% 35.17%
Expected increase of 3.43%
Clstr% 18.8
Foul% 11.4%
InPly% 15.5%
InZ SS 4.9%
OZ SS 14.07%
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wuertz leads the league in out of zone swinging strikes
He is at 14.07%, next up is Luke Gregerson at 13%, Brandon League at 11.9% and Mark DiFelice at 11.24%
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wuertz is second in the league in expected strikeouts
He is at 35.17%, behind broxton at 37.5% and way ahead of 3rd/4th place who is DiFelice/Nathan at 30.7%
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frasor
K% 22.48
eK% 21.91
Expected decline of .57%
ClStr 18.4%
Foul 18.6
Inplay 17.2
InZ SS 3.56%
OZ SS 5.05%
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if we got lee
would we have both the pitching/batting versions of cliff lee or the pitching/batting versions of ben zobrist?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
This is a bit off topic regarding Howell and Sonnanstine
Andrew Sonnanstine leads the league for starting pitchers in called strike percentage for all starters with over 33xIP
JP Howell leads the entire league (relievers and starters) in called strike percentage for all pitchers with over 33xIP
by matthan on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's fucking sexy.
I really think Sonny just killed himself with poor pitch selection this year.
by Suttree on Jul 23, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id love to see us move a reliever
bring up Sonny and let him be the long man out of the pen and let Corms pitch in more high leverage. Sonny would be nasty in the pen
by BJ the Bossman on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I miss boom boom
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 23, 2009 12:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
RJ, can you expand on Sonny v. Niemann?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 23, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Rays should sell high on Niemann
As much as I love him, if trading Niemann while his value is high means holding onto another prospect, than I might do that.
by raysrule44 on Jul 23, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really am high on Brignac and don't really understand why we are pushing him
Cleveland doesn’t have a pressing need for him and if we can swap out a lower level P prospect like Barnese or Lobstein instead of Brignac I think we should. That being said, my guess is Davis would end up being the only major piece we send over to Cleveland as a third team (most likely for Kaz) is going to need to be involved and that is where we can get another P prospect to send to Cleveland.
by Dbullsfan on Jul 23, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but...
Rafeal Betancourt is now a Colorado Rockie….
Count him out
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Jul 23, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MATT LAPORTA
Rays baseball + Colorado Football= amazing
by raysfan81 on Jul 23, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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