A Request
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
Email
PrintCan we stop using these phrases?
"[Player X] doesn't put us over the top" and "[Player X] doesn't guarantee us a playoff spot"
We've played 96 games, there's 66 to go. To this point, Albert Pujols has been worth 5.3 WAR in 411 plate appearances. If you prorate that number to 650, Albert will be worth about 8.4 WAR total, or 3.1 from here on out. Three wins. That's how much Albert Pujols helps you this season. That does neither; put you over the top or guarantee you a playoff spot. It does increase your playoff probabilities - each win is worth ~5% or so, maybe more - and thus help you towards a playoff spot, but no one player guarantees you a spot at this or any point.
Cliff Lee probably adds 1.5 WAR and Victor Martinez would add around 2. That's not even four wins and those are arguably two of the three best players available. Of course, next year they would add nearly double digit wins to the fray and that has to be considered, but in terms of trading some prospects and Scott Kazmir for playoff tickets? Not likely to happen.
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I think you meant
“[Player X] doesn’t put us other over the top
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 24, 2009 7:12 AM EDT reply actions
I'd hate to see Kaz in an Indian uniform
i may be naive but i still see his better days ahead, rather than behind him
I too think he has better days ahead, but not his best days
If we can work him into a package and hang on to Davis, I will be thrilled.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
My feelings as well.
He may regain his form, but I don’t really want to deal with the growing pains at >$10 mill annually. He is my fav Ray ever, and I’ll be sad to see him go. I’ll cheer hard for whatever team he goes to 1 out of every 5 days.
Oh yeah, I ran the numbers through Sky's trade calc sheet
Kaz at 1 WAR this year, 3 each of the next 3, net value: 15 mil
Lee at 1.5 WAR this year, 6 next, with a Type-A pick: 29 mil
You can nitpick over the numbers and all, but a straight up deal favors us.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This would make me have to change my underwear
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
I think that WAR a BS thought process..
It doesn’t factor in the other factors that adding players gives a team. Confidence, momentum.. Im sorry but adding a win value to a player is completely bogus. Whats to say adding ex. Victor Martinex doesnt add confidence to Zobrist and Burrell to hit more HR’s per aB than they ever have. What if Martinez simply calles a better game than Navi and adds wins to all pitchers because he is smarter than Navi. ect..
and also, we can't quantify catcher's defense well
so we don’t try, so the second half of that post was irrelevant
I never understood this theory.
Catcher defense doesn’t have a metric yet, so we pretend it doesn’t exist? I don’t have a metric for how many smiles a rainbow causes, but am I to deny that rainbows are glorious miracles that save lives and give birth to unicorns?
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by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 24, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
For the purposes of WAR, yes. You pretend that every catcher has league-average defense.
That being said, I think we can all agree to some level of certainty that Navarro is a poor catcher defensively this year. When using WAR, you simply take what you think is defensive WAR is and plug it in.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
So you're pro-unicorn?
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by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 24, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
The thought process
Is that the difference between the best catcher defense and the worst catcher defense over the course of a full season is no more than 20 runs, so it’s just not quite as important as defense at other positions anyway. But yeah, it is a big gaping hole in WAR analysis.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yup
So my next question is thus: why are people sso quick to move players off catcher if there seems to be merely a 2 win swing from best to worst? I mean I guess you can be much worse than the worst, but by how much?
No need to ruin a hitter's knees if he can't catch
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Well, you can include that in a measure of a player, right?
VMart’s confidence = .5 more WAR from Zobrist and Burrell. Tell us how you think it’ll matter. If you don’t know, then take a best guess.
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If you would've added "in my opinion" this comment would be fine.
You have zero proof of any of that. None. I’m sure there’s something to confidence, but it’s marginal.
The Rays (along with just about every worthwhile team nowadays) use a WAR like scale for pay. So I guess you hate most front offices.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
And considering I just read this again, you really have no idea what WAR is.
It doesn’t measure anything that you talked about. At all.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/#winvalues
It measure individual performance.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
If only someone had posted that 4 minutes ago
REQUEST: READ THE THREAD
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
The instant gratification generation has arrived.
One person cries and the masses follow suit. I think last year’s run was way too much for us to handle. This year’s squad is still way better than a decade of terrible ones. It’s way too soon to say we’re sitting on our hands if we don’t go out and sign somebody. We’re good enough damn it.
A reporter once asked Rickey Henderson if he talked to himself, "Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?"
by Zobrist on deck on Jul 24, 2009 7:43 AM EDT reply actions
I agree, to me acquiring Lee FOR THE RIGHT PRICE is a good move, nto a desperate one
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
If i understand the components of WAR and i may not totally
it is comprised on a game by game basis of a player’s WPA
If so, the WPA is very discriminatory to performing in what it determines are high leverage situations
If a team wins 12-0 and a player hits 3 HR, his WPA may not be as high as a player who goes 1-5 yet hits a walk off in a close game
i may be wrong, and i’m sure my “friends” will correct me
definitely not
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 8:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's actually a component formula.
There are three facets to WAR for hitters: hitting value, fielding value, and replacement value (so to speak). There is a great FG series detailing it, but here is a rough overview:
Hitting
The hitting value is derived by using a player’s wOBA to detrmine how many extra runs the player generates with his bat above and beyond what the average player does. wOBA is a linear weights formula that attaches value to every aspect of offense (pretty much), a single is worth so much, a double is worth more, a stolen base and caught stealing factor in, etc. It is a rate stat; so to find a player’s batting runa above average (bRAA), you subtract league average wOBA from the player’s wOBA divide by a constant (usually around 1.15) to get it to scale and multiply by plate appearances.
Fielding
Fielding is essentially the raw UZR value with a positional adjustment. These adjustments relate the value of defense at one position to another. This is complicated stuff (UZR not the positional adjustments) that I have little knowledge of the inner-workings, so we’ll leave it at that.
Replacement
Since the previous two values relate a player to an average MLB player we need to adjust down to determine how the player’s value compares to a replacement level player (a player that should be either on the farm or freely available on waivers). Over the course of 150 games, RL is worth about 20 runs. To find replacement level adjustment you do games played divided by 150 and multiply it by 20.
Hope that helps those that haven’t read the site glossary comprehend one of the key statistics used here.
Nope
It’s just an interesting measure of how a player did on a game by game basis. Interestingly, if you look at the end of the year the leadrerboard for WAR is strikingly similar to that of WPA. I’ll pull the top 10 of each and post it.
top 10 in WPA
Prince Fielder
Albert Pujols
Raul Ibanez
Chase Utley
Pablo Sandoval
Johnny Damon
Ben Zobrist
Mark Teixeira
Ryan Howard
Jason Bay
top 10 in BRAA
Albert Pujols
Prince Fielder
Chase Utley
Justin Morneau
Hanley Ramirez
Joe Mauer
Ben Zobrist
Raul Ibanez
Adam Dunn
Kevin Youkilis
Sorry I was expecting a call, and it came. I hate when work gets in the way of posting.
top 10 RE24
Pujols
Fielder
Utley
Morneau
Ibanex
Ramirez
Mauer
Braun
Zobrist
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
WPA is a junk stat though
It’s not really useful for any purpose that I can think of, it’s just fun to know.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Its probably even more strikingly similar to RE24, I would imagine
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
WPA would measure a players WPA not WAR
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Rglass covered WAR
WPA just measures a players offensive impact on run expectancy adjusted for leverage
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
WPA is contextual.
WAR is not.
So if A-Rod only hits in low-leverage situations, his WPA is going to suck. But if the Yankees are winning most games 20-0, he’s probably got a good WAR because he’s still hitting a lot.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Sort of
If clutch actually exists.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
With a tight race one or two wins makes a huge difference
Plus I do think WAR is a tough concept for some to conceptualize. Talking about wins based on an individual player in a team sport.
Plus if say Albert Pujols gives us an increase of 2 WAR then that change just doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Wins and losses are a zero sum game.
Pena is on pace for 1 more WAR this year?
I’m not trying to contradict, just asking. I still don’t want Pujols, but I know it was just an example
I'll tell you who would put us over the top.
That damn Sasquatch.
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by ReasonableDoubt on Jul 24, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions
I'll tell you who does put us over the top
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions
Remember what i said about Shapiro
he prefers trading to the NL
Betancourt to the Rockies for starters
And when it comes to Lee and Martinez who have a year and a half left, the odds are greater
42% of his trades between starting with CLE until 8/31/2008 were with AL teams
It’s not an overwhelming enough figure to make any case from.
So long, Sweet Lime!
Interesting...
Indians GM Mark Shapiro wonders if teams are holding onto their prospects too tightly: “It’s almost to the point where there’s an over-evaluation of these guys. There’s almost an over-correction.”
From MLBtr.
Ok then he can pay them for a year and a half for a last place team
Then take the 4 draft picks and hope to God one or maybe two pans out. Then when they pan out they can reach the majors by 2016. And by then Shapiro will be unemployed and working for ESPN.
And what if Martinez accepts arbitration?
Then he’s really left holding the bag
Or he'll get a very good player for less than market prices?
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Shapiro said that?
He has no room to talk, ask him to look at Guthrie, Scutaro, Luke Scott and Brandon Phillips all Tribe farmhands he got nothing for, cause he wouldn’t pull the trigger on a deal
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/#winvalues
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
This doesn't really answer my question
Hypothetically lets say the Rays acquire Pujols, ignore Pena, and we gain say 2 WAR the rest of the way. Say the Cards replace Pujols with Dioner Navarros cousin so they lose exactly 3 WAR
What impact would this have on our season ending records?
I don’t think you can just say the Rays will win 2 more games and the Cards 3 less. That doesn’t add up to zero and plus we do not play each other. How do you account for the losses generating for other teams by our increased WAR and the wins generated for the other teams by the Cards decreased WAR? What about schedule difficulty? How is that factored in?
The Rays would add enough expected runs scored and subtract enough expected runs allowed to give them a Pythag equal to two more wins.
It is an expected number measured out over some period of time.
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
For example lets say the Rays, Yanks and Sox all add an expected 2 WAR to their team
Now lets assume they mainly just play each other. Clearly that addition wont translate into two wins for each squad.
Obviously I’m trying to predict compared to look at what happened. But obviously that is pretty important when determining the impacts of a trade.
It's an estimate or guideline.
Obviously it depends on how things shake out. It’s like playing cards. You could have a 2-5 and need a 6 to get the straight versus a 9-K to get the straight. Obviously the 9-k has a higher percentage of hitting it because he gets the straight with a A or an 8, but there’s still the chance a 6 comes up.
Right
I’m just wondering how they would factor in increases and decreases of WARs across leagues, across different schedules, etc.
This isn't WAR's intent at all.
Cameron covered this in the primer.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Selig makes his interns add two extra wins to the Rays' total.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I just ran the correlation on 2008's W and Win Values totals.
R2: 0.74
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
It means, for last year at least, the WAR values had a very strong relationship with actual wins.
Doing the last three years to widen the size.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
i actually had one and a slide rule in school
never could figure them out
i think not having a calculator made me very good in learning how to do nmath in my head
Slide rule, awesome, I haven't hear about a slide rule in a long time
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It tends to help.
My parents made it a point to not allow me to use a calculator for anything that didn’t require it until I reached high school, and even then, I treated it as a tool, not a crutch.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Is a R2 of .74 very strong?
It doesn’t seem so.
It is very good compared to other measures.
Stronger than Pythag or any other way we looked at in the offseason if I recall.
I was looking for that fanpost and couldn't find it.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
OPS correlates with runs scored last year at .89.
Doesn’t that get criticized for not being a good measure?
I understand it’s mainly due to there being better methods, but the reasoning seems a little off.
OPS is a lot better than most stats people use.
But wOBA is actually higher than that.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
OPS is not a good stat
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Better than batting average, HR, RBI.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
HR isn't bad, it lets you know how many HR the player has hit
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
My understanding was
that, on a team level, wOBA does not correlate better with runs than OPS, see:
http://www.thehardballtimes.com/main/article/the-great-run-estimator-shootout-part-1/
Am I wrong?
I agree
would not be surprised that if looking at better measures of “correlation” would tell a different story, but the only I have seen is what is in that article, which shows (if I am reading correctly) that the standard linear correlation coefficient is not larger for wOBA…
Has
anyone looked at either non-linear moments, or broaken down the linear ones into subgroups to see?
I know wOBA is better
The point, which is a little hard to explain, is that it can be a little confusing when we talk about WAR as being extremely predictive when in reality it is not. It’s the best available, but it’s far from perfect.
The OPS example was used just to say that we criticize OPS when it’s a pretty strong measure for predicting runs scored.
Again, hard to explain what I’m getting at.
I don't think anyone criticizes OPS.
It’s not the best correlating metric and since we have better publicly available, why not use wOBA instead? But again, I’d rather people use OPS than BA.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Harold Reynolds
But his opinions on statistical measurements don’t really matter anyway.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I agree...
OPS is just much easier to find, and casually it isn’t a bad metric. I agree wOBA is better.
They seemed to have nailed down a pretty good measure of runs scored in wOBA and it can be used pretty confidently. The same hasn’t happened with WAR and I’m just not sure it can be used with the same conviction as other stats. That’s more of what I’m getting at.
Isn't OPS listed on mlb.com?
And ESPN, Yahoo, etc.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
When you've never heard of Fangraphs...
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
That's more to my point
For the casual fan OPS is a lot easier to use. If OPS becomes mainstream, which it is beginning to, it’s a small victory.
OPS?
I can be at a game, look at a scoreboard and know a players OPS.
I can look on any website and combine OBP and Slug. It’s also a lot easier to calculate. Can you rattle off the equation for wOBA? (you may be able to, I’d be impressed).
That doesn’t make it better, I’m not saying that. I’m not saying it should be used. I’m just saying I can see why it’s easier to rally for OPS to get widespread use then push for wOBA.
I know it was something like that.
I kept thinking OPS/2 but didn’t think it was that simple.
Can you recite the true formula?
Thankfully no.
I can’t recite the FIP formula either.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I know the basic one off-hand.
You also can do 1.5*OBP+SLG/3. That will give you a rough measure w/o steals.
I wasn’t trying to be a jerk; I just thought you meant it’s easier to find online.
I didn't think you were being jerk.
I understand the point of using the most accurate statistic. I’d just rather sacrifice a little bit of accuracy if it means more people understanding or using a statistic. I could easily explain OPS to an older fan and don’t think it’d give him a stroke.
Interestingly enough,
I think wOBA is pretty easy to explain. Getting people to do the math though is way harder.
Actually I guess OPS is easier to explain.
i tried to explain true run values to my family on our trip to NYS
it didn’t really go over well.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Don’t explain it that way. I explained it to my dad as a stat that gives a certain value to every offensive play (essentially). These values tie closely to runs these things produce. Thus it ties to about how many runs are produced per plate appearance by a player.
In theory wOBA makes a lot more sense
It just has to many variables and calculations. OPS needs Total bases, walks, hits, HBP and PA.
There is nothing wrong with both
The smart folks should strive to be as accurate as possible. However there is also nothing wrong with having easier to understand and calcualet metrics for the not so smart people out there.
That's probably true.
But just because it is the best we have doesn’t make it all that reliable.
Treating it like fact, or a sure thing, is a little misleading when it really doesn’t seem all that strong.
Nobody is claiming its without flaws.
It’s the best total value number out there though.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm agreeing that it's the best.
It’s just not that reliable, especially when considering the other baseball stats. I’m not sure if I’m at the point where I’d use it to justify a trade. I at least wouldn’t be as confident.
Well Tally I actually agree with you
I know for practical purposes we all seem to forget about the statistics behind the statistics when talking about them.
It is not super strong
But good enough statistically speaking.
Really?
It shows some correlation but is far from definitive.
I can’t find a scale, and my stat days are a little behind me, but I don’t know if I’d consider that all that strong.
I guess that depends on what you're trying to find a connection between.
I just don’t remember that being enough to be acceptable. Seems like a large margin of error.
Anyone know what the difference would be in looking at the correlation between say wOBA, UZR and FIP against Wins in a multiple regression type setting compared to a combined metric like WAR?
Hmmm
I might take a look at that if I have time this afternoon.
Seeing as how I am going on vacation for 2 weeks I doubt it, though.
WOOT WOOT VACATION!
Yeah I think this would be very interesting
If it wasn’t a Friday maybe I’d do it.
I'm not surprised
I’m sure success in nearly any advanced statistic would be highly correlated with wins. Success correlates with success.
I’m not bashing WAR or trying to punch holes in it. I’m just trying to get into Andrew Friedmans thought process. From an analysts point of view looking at changes in WAR is more than enough. For a GM of a team in the ALE I can’t imagine that it is. I just can’t imagine Andrew sitting in his office saying “Okay we gained 2 WAR now it is 96 wins instead of 94”. That just isn’t enough info
Sorry, I'll get my baseball ops department to give me more info.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
And RGlass just told me to go screw myself.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You didn't even ask liar.
You know the research is my favorite part. i just hate having to put the words on paper.
WAR is definitely strong
I’m not questioning that. I’m sure the FO runs some pretty large simulations to get intervals of expected wins and what not. I don’t expect anyone on here to do anything the same. I was just seeing if anyone had any insight. Clearly if the Rays, Sox, and Yanks all add an expected 2 WAR then we all can’t just increase our expected wins by 2. We have too many games against each other. I was just curious on how the FO adjusts for that. But it is probably a massive simulation building confidence intervals.
Right.
And I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t have those capabilities.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually got a copy of Crystal Ball for these purposes.
Under the ospice of it being for work. Then I never used it. Once.
I really need to learn it.
I am a stud, and that would make me studlier.
I could go up to chicks at the bar, and be like “Yo, I ran a Monte Carlo on us going out. It said that 40% of the time we ended up married and I was rich. 60% of the time you had multiples. Etc.”
that will slay the honeys at the texas instruments convention
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
If you guys had to put a % on the likelihood that we deal for 1 or 2 of the Halladay, Lee, VMart target triumvirate
what would it be?
I say:
1 – 40%
2 – 25%
So long, Sweet Lime!
I think you're overly optimistic
5% or less for Halladay, maybe double that for anyone from the Tribe.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I think optimistic would be to assume that trade success is in the ascendancy
Talking specifically about Halladay, I’d have to think our chances are closer to 5%. There’s just too much talk about us and the Indians to make me think there’s nothing going on. We’re usually very discreet.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point, but they all but had the Bay trade done last year, and that sounded like a drum set falling down a flight of stairs.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
There's stuff going on.
But there’s no guarantee it gets done.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
of course there isn't.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm tired of people saying "if" there's stuff going on.
I’m pretty sure Feinstein, Hunsicker, and Friedman are on the phones non-stop.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
okay, but i was talking about an actual deal getting done. i know there's stuff going on. it's just that its been reported to a degree over the past 48 hours
that we’ve ventured into, “what are the odds that something actually materializes from this?”
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
This website is for germane baseball discussion only, i'm going to have to ask you to leave.
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
There is a thread for stuff like this.
Not that anybody would listen anyway.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees are latest to inquire about cliff lee. but were told theyd have to surrender joba or hughes plus more. #indians
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions
It does, but
they’re a victim of circumstance. The Indians would accept someone lesser (hence their going after Davis), but the Yankees just don’t have many quality young pitchers.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That, or they stupidly give up Joba and Hughes, which is an option that cannot at all be discounted.
Especially if it means keeping Lee out of our hands.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
It said Joba OR Hughes
And I read it to say there were two options:
1) Joba
2) Hughes and more
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yes, they'll get a good young arm MLB ready in any deal.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
If they can't get good, they can at least get Hughes or Joba
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Please do
Support the Type Strong Movement, Like This Little Lady Does
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Wade Davis can only hope to be half the middle relief pitcher that Phil Hughes is
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by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree w you
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
In that case, Wade Davis is going to be a catastrophic failure once he hits the majors and we should trade him for anything we can get.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I imagine the talent will be nice.
Especially if it’s in Tampa. Especially especially if you’re into HS chicks.
This.
I may go. My girlfirend likes the music. I’ll just tailgate and drink my face off and make her drive me home.
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 24, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I just warned him and hid this subthread. Let's see what happens.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
What happens is matthan spoils the fun by thinking he was banned instead of warned and stops posting.
Lame.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
OT: I work for a company that's all about music, yet I don't listen to the radio, don't buy CDs or MP3, and never go to concerts.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
i thought you designed the internets
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I develop it, designers are not the same as developers. But I still do it for a music company.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
that's all just too much for an old southern boy like me to understand.
/fans self
//sips iced tea
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Designers make things look pretty, developers make things work.
Though some developers can do design work. I am not one of those developers.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
i was not being serious. i understand the difference. ;)
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
its okay. i'd rather have coke zero.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
where's the OT thread?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't do one today, yesterday's was dead, I'll do one on Monday.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
yesterday we had a shitload of stuff to talk about though
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
BUT THE DATE IS WRONG!1!
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
sweet tea is fucking gross. its virtually lemon syrup.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah they don't have that in florida
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
In N. Florida they do.
Also, at my relatives houses. Although, my Mom is a health freak, so the sweet tea has largely been replaced by sun tea (which is good but not as good).
i must be awesome at dry sarcasm today.
sweet tea is all over tampa.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Not the same.
The further north you go in the South the sweeter it is. The sweet Tea in Tampa<in N. FL<NC<Richmond
a rednexpert is you
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
you can be an expert on something you aren't
i consider myself an expert on black culture (parachute pants, large chains, grape drink) without actually being black.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
I consider myself more a clack cultural expert than redneck. IE I know more about Rap than country or Nikes than boots.
let's have a blaxpert showdown
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
goes best with fried chicken.
next.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
boys are easier than girls, usually
especially if you’re in an area with a lot of asian-owned businesses
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
complete this Good Times lyric
temporary layoffs
good times.
easy credit ripoffs
good times.
scratchin’ and surviving
good times.
____________________
good times.
Selgy
hanging
in a chow line
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
what is a carpetbagger? a serial murderer of lesbians?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
only the second question
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
People that moved from the North after the civil war are traditionally called carpet baggers.
In this sense, I mean any northerners taht move to the south.
i came from europe
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
but really
what sweet tea have you had that taste like lemon syrup? It should taste like iced tea with sugar in it
Kap-rilla???
i dont remember the brand
are you a sweet tea dealer or something?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
brand?
that explains its. Has to be homemade
I would give it another go at a restaurant.
Kap-rilla???
Strangely enough, Checkers has some damn authentic sweet tea.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
their wings are shockingly not assmeat.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
ya fast food works
not a fan of McDonalds though.
Just not a nestea sweet tea can or something
Kap-rilla???
No, it's not a name-brand tea.
If they aren’t brewing it, I’d like to know how they managed to get the “we slightly overbrewed this so the herbs are really really strong” taste.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
FIXED
//sips iced sweet tea
Jeter Sucks.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
OT: GET MONEY
Support the Type Strong Movement, Like This Little Lady Does
Let's work together to combat Terminal Rocco Disease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 24, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions
DO FAVORS FOR OTHERS
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
DONATE YOUR TIME TO THE COMMUNITY
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
PLAY THE MANDOLIN
THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 24, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Something bothering me
Could someone please explain to me why the Angels would even think about dealing us Mike Napoli, when their other catcher is OPSing under .600?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
These kinds of stats are crap
they’re speculative, they have know way to account for guys going on a hot streak, Burrell’s average still stinks, but anybody that’s been watching him closely and understands the game can see that he’s been swinging the bat better…so you could guess that he may get hot in August and raise his average to .250 and hit 10-12 hr’s or he could see his average drop to .200 and hit 0-2 hr’s.
Or what influence aquiring Victor Martinez will have on the rest of the line up, what will having his bat in the line up do in regard to Pena, Longoria and Zobrist see more hittable pitches.
As for pitchers, if Cliff Lee averages 7+ innings a game as opposed to Kazmir’s 5+, what effect does that have on the bull pen, as they would be better rested with 3 starting pitchers that can consistently go 7+, and then factor in Niemann who has been going deeper as he becomes more acclimated to getting ML hitters out…and what if Price gets hot, or Sonnanstine comes back up and is effective?
This is why they play the games and don’t just give the rings to Boston or NY. These stats don’t account for the Yankees possibly having a miserable August with the tough schedule that they have coming up.
Fantasy baseball is fun, but sometimes it goes to far.. with these kind of subjective statistics.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 26, 2009 2:59 AM EDT reply actions
Grammar
I probably should have reread this, before posting it.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 26, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Josh Anderson
Detroit DFA’d him, anybody think it would be a good idea to claim, send him to AAA and call him up in Sept?
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 26, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions
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