Okay, so I'll toss this out now
I’ve been hearing for a few days that the M’s were involved as a third team in a Cliff Lee to Tampa Bay deal. The Indians want more pitching than the Rays want to give up and don’t have a use for Brignac (because we already gave them an awesome LH hitting SS…), so the M’s would get Brignac and send additional pitching to the Rays.
What that looks like is up in the air. I’ve heard Morrow/Clement to Cleveland in a huge deal that also sends Victor Martinez to Tampa. I’ve heard that we’d absorb Kazmir’s contract too in order to make TB be able to fit Lee into their budget. I’ve heard smaller deals where it’s just Morrow.
Guess we’ll see.
by davidcameron
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As Robert pointed out further down that thread
that’s the three smartest teams in baseball dealing with each other if this is true. Those discussions have got to be fun.
Could this be the first win-win-win deal in history?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope it's a win-win-fuck-you-change-your-logo deal.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Duh.
Although he’s not going to come close to replacing Gutz in my special place.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
At least he'd be going to a smart fan base that can appreciate him.
And we get Lee and maybe Martinez.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a great deal of admiration for the organization but
A) Their logo is appalling
and
B) Cabrera :(
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I :( when I think of Gutz
But I’m happy he’s appreciated.
It’s a slow transition. One, the logo sells like crap. A lot of people would be unhappy for tradition’s sake if it went (I’m not one of them, but this is what I’ve read). Two, they have really been pushing the cursive “I” and block “C” these past few years.
Steel Nick
They have, and I like those uniforms a lot.
I don’t want them to change their name or anything, but I do hope Wahoo is completely gone soon.
As far as Gutz goes, at least y’all got something of value for him. Valbuena was a favorite of mine. But I would also miss him like hell were I you.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not since Billy Beane checked out.
What’s depressing is that even though he doesn’t really seem to give a shit anymore, he’s still one of the five best GMs around.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh
Sounds too awesome to be true
Plzzzzz
1. James Shields 2. Scott Kazmir 3. Matt Garza 4. David Price 5. Jeff Niemann
As a Tribe fan that’s been monitoring the discussion on all 3 sites today … I’ll a little concerned about this one from our end.
Wade Davis … I’m happy with.
Brandon Morrow … I’m happy with.
The inclusion of Jeff Clement confuses the heck out of me.
Hopefully there are a couple more prospects included in this deal coming the Tribe’s way.
Clement has some problems, but don't be fooled into thinking he is worthless.
He can still hit and not everyone thinks he is hopeless at catcher. The organization hasn’t handled him all that well, which is where I think his perceived lack of value comes into play.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I guess I should clarify.
I like his bat a lot.
If he can catch … then I’m good with it.
But I always through the guy was more of a 1B/DH in waiting … which is exactly the type of player the Indians don’t need!
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think he can catch.
Probably not for much longer than two or three years, but that’s still valuable.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
As long as he can don the tools, he’s a nice pickup.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
His defense is bad but he is a catcher so who the hell cares.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I do
Because the Indians actually have depth at C/1B/DH … and that’s not really a position that needs to be added to in the system.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that his defensive shortcomings pale in comparison to his offensive abilities.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I hear you … but he just doesn’t seem to be a position of need for the team.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true.
I would be sad if Clement was moved only to be blocked again.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlos Santana
If we jettison Shoppach and make Clement the placeholder for 2010 (the first half anyway), maybe. But then Clement either becomes a backup or moves to first/DH, where LaPorta and Weglarz and a billion other guys are waiting.
Steel Nick
This is Weglarz, by the way
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2009/03/indians-top-100-prospects-2-nick.html
Our top three prospects are at C and 1B/DH.
Steel Nick
ahem..LaPorta = LF still
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not according to the Indians FO and Kevin Goldstein
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this the Ryan braun school of fielding?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Oh I see what you're doing
You can’t actually converse about baseball on 2 boards!
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Man ...
I’m making a mess of this. Also sorry for not replying to myself!
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The inclusion of Clement gives them Victor Martinez Version 2.0
If I’m reading this right, I see the Rays trying for a major blockbuster of
Cliff Lee AND Victor Martinez for perhaps Morrow/Clement/Davis…is this what I was reading in Cameron’s comments?
If so, Kaz & Brignac & Davis for those two is well worth it.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 25, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
This really would be a win-win-win, wouldn't it?
M’s get Scott Kazmir and one of the best, if not the best, upper-tier minor SS in baseball for players they are down on
Indians get two big pitching prospects and a younger version of Victor Martinez (even if he’s not quite as good, but has a great potential bat)
And the Rays pick up two of the three biggest options out there, and find a way to fit them into their budget at least for this year.
This is an awesome trade, if it happens.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 25, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The other thing that makes me like this deal is that I like Clement and Morrow and I want them to succeed.
I also know it won’t happen here.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
His velocity is up and I refuse to believe he is replacement level at 25.
It’s a risk but it’s a risk worth taking.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He's looked much improved since returning.
The home run bug isn’t something I’m concerned about, and if he goes to Safeco you really dampen that concern.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Chances this happens?
Likely?
Possible?
Just an idea thrown out there?
1. James Shields 2. Scott Kazmir 3. Matt Garza 4. David Price 5. Jeff Niemann
FWIW
Cameron also went on to say that the M’s would move Washburn after acquiring Kazmir.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Would anyone do that?
Morrow and Clement to Cleveland, Victor Martinez to Tampa Bay, Kazmir and Brignac to Seattle.
by Doug09 on Jul 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't think
That would be all you’d be giving up.
Davis would be coming to Cleveland, too, I would hope.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Davis and Barnese, to be realistic
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Yes
That would be fair if Morrow was also in the deal.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 25, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that this deal should end with
J.J. Putz and Victor Zambrano to Seattle for Kazmir
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
Don't be silly.
Zambrano isn’t even under contract anymore.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I heard, he was rehabbing at the Mets Dominican beisbol Academy.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
DONT STEAL OUR THUNDER ASSHOLES
Boston is now going after Doc
1. James Shields 2. Scott Kazmir 3. Matt Garza 4. David Price 5. Jeff Niemann
Sure give them buchholz,
bowden, bard, and some other hitting spect.
Come ON Pat the Bust, Navi can not have more homers than you
What would V-Mart do for us?
Just play C all the time? Or split b/w first and C like he does now? But Pena’s at first. Maybe split his time between C and DH, and give Burrell more days off like the White Sox do with Thome?
Unless you're trading him in the offseason
It would be wise not to catch him all the time.
Steel Nick
But on days when he's not catching, I'm having trouble seeing how he fits into our lineup.
It might be better to go after an everyday catcher whose bat is not as hot but whose defense and durability are more solid.
Personally
I don’t see Victor being involved here. How many 8-10 player trades do we ever see?
If Vic goes my money’s on a completely separate transaction. Can’t always cure your needs through one move.
Steel Nick
There seems like a lot to this trade
Which makes it harder and harder to believe. 3 team blockbuster’s are tough, although it happened last year. Pirates didn’t get much there
Apparently there's a game still going on
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
What in heavens sake.
BenBadler Per durham manager, Reid Brignac will play 2nd game today. Right leg was bothering him
So it wasn’t hustling, and it was serious enough to take him out, but not serious enough for him to not play 3 hours later?
Uh-huh.
Now I hate to sound like a Doubting Thomas but I'm not entirely sure that I believe this.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
it sounds fishy
first reports from Tampa Tribune is he failed to run to first and was benched.
second report is he tweaked a hammy.
both reports say he’ll play tonight.
something is up.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 25, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully so minor that we don't have to face Lee.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the idea of Shields, Lee, and Garza facing the Yankees.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
That'd be neat.
I still think y’all have the best shot at winning the division as it stands and if you add Lee (and Martinez, although I am not convinced that’s happening) that’s got to improve things.
If the M’s really fall out of it (and that seems to be the way things are headed) I wouldn’t mind seeing Aardsma moved your way.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
well if you guys are feeling generous...
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 25, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
All this goodwill between well-run teams
saddens me
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
just posted in the GDT
Brignac was indeed pulled because of bruising, he spent the rest of game 1 chilaxen in the clubhouse with ice on his leg and watching the game on tv.
I was there without access to the internet and it was driving me crazy until I was informed (about 5/6th inning of him in the clubhouse
while I thought at first he was definately traded, Davis never left the dugout throughout the game
and I don’t see any deal involving Brignac, not involving Davis. So I doubt it was a we had a deal and it got called off last second.
as far as the trade
if we are giving up Brignac, Davis, and Kazmir, I sure as hell hope we are getting more than just Cliff Lee back in return so if you have to throw in Barnese to get V-Mart do that instead of the deal just for Lee.
Nobody knows if this deal would include Davis or not.
Outside of salary reasons, you have to think Morrow serves that young starter purpose.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the jays with Halladay
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Cleveland wants a young starter with front end potential.
Which Morrow is.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW met Jeremy Hellickson today, extremely nice guy
after a pregame run in 95 degree heat he took about 10 minutes and talked to a group of us by the dugout (mainly the kids) sounded pretty excited to be up in Durham.
so correct me if i'm wrong.....
if this deal is legit…it would likely to get done tonight…before lee makes his start tomorrow??
I doubt it’s legit at least currently being proposed.
Lee or Victor by himself is worth more than Clement, Morrow, Davis let alone the two of them together. Its basically a 24 yr old reliever who walks too much, a 25 year old Catcher who can’t play defense…might not hit, and Davis. If this deal happens there has to be a lot more coming to Cleveland. Lots more.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
THere is absolutely no reason to believe that Clement might not hit.
None.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah it looks like they moved Morrow back the rotation in the middle of June
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they moved him to the pen. Fangraphs says he’s only started 6 games this year. Regardless, Dave Cameron didn’t seem too high on him in the rotation from what I’m reading, unless he’s made some big improvements in the last two years. His WHIP indicates he hasn’t.
dunno, we’ll see but there’s not enough information to call this a good trade for the Indians.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
They did move him to the pen, but recently he went back to the rotation, right now he's in Triple-A working things out.
We don’t know the prospects involved, which makes it hard to analyze this deal from the Rays or Indians side.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He moved himself to the pen for no apparent reason
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
He is somewhat crazy if that counts as a reason.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I forget all the details on that honestly
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
He didn't want to go to Tacoma, so he decided to close.
Then he figured out that he needed to go to Tacoma anyways because he can’t get by on nothing but fastballs so he decided to start.
“Crazy” isn’t really fair, but he desperately needs a change of scenery and some direction.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
WHIP is a pointless stat.
He has a ton of potential in the rotation and if you think Dave Cameron doesn’t want him to start you are incorrect.
He isn’t without his risks though.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Is BB/9
6.8 in AAA
Morrow seems intresting. I wasn’t trying to bash him. My only point was that if this is trade for Lee and Victor, or even one of them, there must be some key prospects being included for this to make any sense.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing the Rays would supply a low level, high upside arm or two.
It seems like there are variances of the deal, and I doubt Lee and Martinez end up Rays; likely just Lee.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
eh. Even still not exactly a great trade for Lee. Intriguing but not really good value. I don’t know, I’d wait to see the final product before passing judgment. It’d make more sense as a trade for Martinez though.
shrug
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The market is weird right now.
Teams just aren’t selling the farm as much as they used to.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not nearly as bad a deal for the Cardinals as it has been made out to be.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
True but other than Rasmus, they're fucked when Pujols leaves.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
I would argue they made this deal to help prevent against Pujols leaving.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
When Larussa's gone, he's gone
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
They're apparently BFFs, and that bidding war is going to be beyond insane
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
We don’t have to trade Lee or Victor.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I can't believe a NL team hasn't dealt for him yet.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Or any team looking for a non ace pitcher. He blew up in his last start so his FIP went up but its still 4.01. (It was, I believe 3.69 before he threw a ham)
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention that 1.5 years cheap years of an All star catcher and the reigning CY Young winner is worth a lot. I’m not a homer who expects to trade our crap for your gold, I’m just saying even in a depressed market this is questionable value. Not a horrible just, eh value.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you and I both have a pretty good handle on other teams' prospects
And I would really like Davis and Morrow as a return for Lee. Like really like.
Steel Nick
this may be where the big hold up is
you guys want Davis and Morrow for Lee, Seattle wants Brignac and Kazmir for Morrow, and we are sitting there going wait a second Kazmir, Brignac, and Davis for Lee is way too much.
this is why I think that either no deal gets done or we end up throwing in a guy like Barnese and Martinez heads our way.
His control and command are bad, but that can be fixed.
If he can learn how to mix his pitches like a starter, that would go a long way towards helping his wildness.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Can be fixed and easy or likely to be fixed are different. Besides the Indians staff hasn’t been great at fixing pitchers who walk too many batters lately.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone think
We could give up 2 of Barnese/Cruz/Cobb, along with Brignac, and that would get the deal done? If that’s possible, I would surely favor it.
I didn't say I wasn't flawless, but I damn sho' don't tarnish!
Please don't give up Cobb, I doubt he'd be properly valued
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
lolAngels Prospects
4:17pm: According to Gordon Edes of Yahoo! Sports, the Angels “did indeed make a run at Halladay, offering Jered Weaver plus the Blue Jays’ pick of outfield or infield prospects” Bottom line, it wasn’t enough.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
gotta love ESPN
If the Yankees or Red Sox completed a 8 run comeback in an extra inning affair, it would already be up on the front page right now. No East Coast Bias my ass
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 25, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
rec
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren’t the Rays on the East Coast?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jul 25, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WEST SIDE!
of Florida
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 25, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Burgi
So…
I don’t think V-Mart will be traded as the Rays won’t give up that many prospects and as there is no room for him other than at C!
That leaves such a deal:
RAYS: + Lee (CLE); – Brignac (CLE) and Kazmir (SEA)
TRIBE: + Morrow and Pineda/Aumont (SEA), Brignac (TBR); – Lee (TBR)
M’s: + Kazmir (TBR); – Morrow and Pineda/Aumont
If you think the Mariners are moving Pineda or Aumont you are absolutely fucking insane.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, you have the Mariners trading Morrow and Pineda or Aumont for Kazmir alone?
What the hell are you on?
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason Seattle would take Kazmir is as a salary dump in order to get Brignac.
If they don’t get Brignac why the hell would they want Kazmir? They’re out of the race for all practical purposes. And even if they did want Kazmir for some reason, he probably wouldn’t cost much.
This is just out and out stupid and I think it’s funny that people who have no idea what they’re talking about would question people who have clearly demonstrated that they do.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 25, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
this is becoming a problem I think, when this deal first was brought up Seattle wasn't out of the race
and it was Cleveland selling and both us and Seattle getting pieces we needed to help this year + next
I just had an idea (scary I know)
if Cleveland keeps stalling with the Davis/Morrow issue (or w/e the hold up is right now) what if we upped the offer to Seattle and sent them Brignac, Barnese and Kazmir for Bedard? (assuming he is healthy). This way they get the SS they desperately want, still have Kazmir for a couple more years at a decent price and Barnese would fit in as a nice lower level high upside guy since they would still have Morrow the need for a ML ready arm wouldn’t be necessary.
Than turnaround and send Justin Ruggiano or whoever for Greg Zaun (I will really be pissed if in all this toying around with Victor Martinez someone comes in and picks him up and we don’t upgrade at C)
I wouldn't trade Brignac for Bedard straight up.
Or even Kazmir.
He’s not a Type-A guy, and he’s probably hurt again.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 25, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably?
you mean is
Lincecum is the greatest ball player we will ever see play, besides barry bonds, don't even try and argue it.
by putupyourDUKES on Jul 26, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
No way TB would give all that for Bedard
It’s not like TB’s GM is Bill Bavasi or anything.
Except for the fact that Bedard has constantly been on the DL since going to Seattle, and is a giant blubbering vagina, you're right.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
He has been on and off the DL his entire career.
The Bedard deal was terrible for seattle.
Lincecum is the greatest ball player we will ever see play, besides barry bonds, don't even try and argue it.
by putupyourDUKES on Jul 26, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Another one of Bavasi's great deals.
Some days I try and forget the entire Bavasi era ever happened and thank the baseball gods for Jack Zduriencik.
Bedard is awesome.
It’s not his fault he’s made of glass.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 26, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The Indians are not trading Lee or VMart
Simply dancing around seeing who will overpay for them. This deal (if true) doesn’t seem like a deal that is a no-brainer for the Tribe. They could very easily get a similar deal this time next year for half a season of their services.
Kaz would love it up here in seattle
Giant pitcher friendly stadium, and pot is pretty much legal.
Lincecum is the greatest ball player we will ever see play, besides barry bonds, don't even try and argue it.
I bet brig and kaz become weed buddies,
Lincecum is the greatest ball player we will ever see play, besides barry bonds, don't even try and argue it.
by putupyourDUKES on Jul 26, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I do not think it necessary the Rays make a deal now.
I think the talent is here to win it all. But there is more to it.
Although there are some dramatic instances when a major acquisition helped a team over the top, I think they are more the exception than the rule. I read a story a few years ago that evaluated deadline deals over an extended period and concluded that, with a few exceptions, they did not have much positive effect on the team’s run to the finish line. And my impression is that conclusion is accurate.
One argument we often hear is that the object is to maximize the chances of post-season success. Typical are statements such as “who could beat the Rays with a front of the rotation of Lee, Shields and Garza” or “imagine the Cardinals in the post-season with Halladay, Carpenter and Wainwright”. Of course those dreams are exciting, but the response is that while that would likely improve their chances, it guarantees nothing. The Braves had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz and won one World Series. Arizona did win with Schilling and Johnson, but only because Rivera blew a 9th inning lead in the 7th game.
What is guaranteed is that the Rays acquiring any major player would diminish the depth in the system. That is far more certain than that they would get to the post-season or win then. And for a team whose main strength is that depth, they better be pretty certain of the gain before sacrificing it. My guess is that Friedman will not deal unless the risk is near zero and the reward is close to assured, and that means he probably will not deal. Maybe a small deal sacrificing a lesser prospect for a reliever or backup catcher or getting some salary relief by sacrificing an easily replaceable part.
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