Rays Bats Go Silent In Loss To Yankees
by Erik Hahmann on Jul 29, 2009 11:39 PM EDT
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PrintWell this isn't exactly what we needed to happen. After coming off a much needed win against Yankee ace CC Sabathia the Rays were totally shut down by Joba Chamberlin.
Anyone who still thinks that Chamberlin should be a reliever should be forced to watch this game. Chamberlin was fantastic tonight, using his curveball and slider effectively to keep the Rays hitters off balance. You have to tip your cap to him tonight.
Matt Garza did not pitch horribly tonight. He didn't come close to the brilliant performance he turned in his last time out, but holding this Yankee lineup to three runs over seven innings is pretty good. It's a shame the offense couldn't help him out with some run support. Garza now has a below .500 record. This is why Won/Loss records should be thrown out for pitchers.
Frankly the rest of the game was pretty uneventful. Yes I know Dan Wheeler allowed two home runs in garbage time, and Longoria hit his second home run in as many games. But after Garza was pulled and as Chamberlin continued to mow down the order the game grew less and less interesting. The Rays did not lose any ground on the Red Sox in the Wild Card race seeing as how Oakland beat them tonight, but there's still a lot of ground to make up in a short period of time. After tonight things aren't looking any easier.
A trade rumor update from @ed_price:
AL official: "I think TB will be active." #Rays would like bat (V-Mart?) and bullpen help
The Indians have no reason to hold onto Martinez at this point. They're not going to win this season and are obviously in rebuilding mode. The Rays need an offensive spark. For the right price Martinez would look great in a Rays uniform.
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btw, Scott Elbert getting traded
ed_priceAm told no connection between Elbert scratched and George Sherrill. #Dodgers #Orioles. Intriguing.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
saw that.
I guess the Dodger fans will have to wait till tomorrow to see who they are getting
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Jul 29, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Martinez would look nice in a Rays uniform of course
but we need to make sure that we get some new blood in the line-up, and at worst maybe completely shaking up the line-up. Sutcliffe was talking about it all night and this was one thing I agreed with him on. Move Bartlett up to the top and Upton down to 5th or 6th or do something to mix things up.
Joba should be a starter, but he has not been good
Getting shut down by him is a total embarrassment. Yeah even blind squirrels find nuts. This was by far Chamberlains best start of the year. Having him do this to us is a really really bad thing. He has more value as a starter, and one day he may become a good starter, but we have to win a lot of these games when a team pitchers a guy with close to a 5 FIP (he is at 4.63)
It was really frustrating seeing fail after fail tonight
Doesn’t it seem like some starting pitchers are just able to figure our lineup out recently?
I know things will eventually even out but…
Beurhle’s perfect game
Richard did pretty well
Burnett
and now Joba… Maybe I just hate Joba.
Do you guys think a lineup shake would be out of order?
I think we may see a new lineup by the end of the homestand if things don't improve soon.
Upton has 1 BB since the ASB, not counting anything today. 1 to 54ABs, that’s insane, now he’s hit .290 and I’m not saying it’s all his fault, but there’s a serious problem if you only have 1 walk in that time frame especially for someone like BJ
by Transplanted on Jul 30, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
true but
he have been absurdly good since the break, 3 strait very good start. at this point in a pitcher’s career it isn’t uncommon to see future good / great pitcher look meh at times.
and
did crawford try and kick his ass?
by Toe Finch on Jul 29, 2009 11:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the Rays get something done
Catcher is far and away the Rays’ weakest position and Martinez is a career .800+ OPS hitter from that spot. He’s also very selective and walks as much as he strikes out. He’d be a huge boost to the lineup.
Hello.
V-Mart isn't really a 'Catcher'
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
He'd play catcher for the Rays
and who gives a crap about his defense. It’s not like Navi is Pudge Rodriguez in his prime behind the dish.
Hello.
I would generally disaprove of a move to bring in a weak defensive player
but it’s not like we are going to be losing anything on that end by replacing Navi. My biggest hope if we get Martinez is that we utilize him in a platoon with Navi and Pena.
LHP- Navi/Martinez
RHP-Martinez/Pena
this maximizes offensive output given that Navi actually hits lefties well and Pena not so much and also gives Martinez days where he doesn’t have to be behind the plate but is also in the field in case something happened to Navi we wouldn’t lose the DH.
Is Martinez pretty good at first?
I know it doesn’t take much and Pena hasn’t exactly been the best but just wondering?
he's
more of a catcher than Navarro is a hitter though
The issue is that the lineup
is dead and it shouldn’t be and it shows no sign of getting better anytime soon. Sure there’s the explosion of offense every 10 games or so, when we’re in a huge hole or a game where they get a nice 4-6 runs, avg win, but generally it’s been 0-4 runs at best and all the starters are just destroying everyone mostly. Unless there’s a bullpen implosion or the Rays SP just is dominant, the team is in trouble. We all knew the SP would turn out ok, and it did fairly so. But there has been little power or base hits & a crazy amount of K’s even for this team, a Strikeout rate of 40% with RISP is not good for the team either.
Not panicking or anything & yes pure luck should fix some of it, but they just look like they have no fire in them to win.
I enjoy honesty.
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Tampa Bay’s Matt Garza hit New York Yankees slugger Mark Teixeira with a fifth-inning pitch Wednesday night, then said he did it because he’s tired of opposing pitchers throwing at Rays All-Star Evan Longoria.
“They can take whatever they want from it from it, but I just kind of got tired of people brushing him back. It’s about time someone made a statement,” Garza said, noting that Longoria was hit by a pitch in the opener of the three-game series on Monday night.
the rest here http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4365353&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
Gorgeous
He makes a great point, that ball was at his head.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
until
a suspension or fine comes this way anyway
MLB fined Bobby Jenks like $200 or something stupid this year for admittedly throwing at someone.
I’m not worried.
Sad times indeed when a pitch can neither protect his teammates nor his plate.
It’s not like he hit Teix above the neck, in the back, on the wrist, or anywhere that could have done damage. Garz was throwing at this shoulder and it tailed onto his forearm. The league should be more worried about possible retard pills in the water up in Seattle and Cleveland than they should about good, hard-nosed baseball.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
This kills me
It was at his head and he says “It’s part of the game.” Really Longo? What Garza did is part of the game. Props to him for sticking up for his team. And he hit the right player, there is no way Tex makes a big deal about it. It shows how confident he was last night too, doing it in that situation.
by RivalsTees on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Longo got his payback in the 9th
I wish it had meant something.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps he is priming the pump
for some good old-fashioned BRAWLFENSE.
Nice. I like how he threw at a batter while the game was still within reach. I wish these guys would learn the damn lesson.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
i fucking love you matt garza.
Thank you for having testicular fortitude.
by BrokeBearMountain on Jul 30, 2009 2:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You know what the right price is? A couple of boxes of baseballs. They all but gave Cliff Lee away; they better not want shit for v-mart.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Our lineup looks like a bunch of very wealthy cadavers right now.
Does Burrell need glasses or some shit? When will he stop chasing the away-tailing low slider?
We have a very consistent pattern, it seems- and I realize I’m just being declarative here based on recent results, but fuck you – stare at strikes 1 and 2 right over the plate, chase at strike 3 well out of the zone. We’re not being aggressive at the right times in the count, or we just lost all comprehension of the strike zone. I can’t figure it out, but I’m not paid to.
FIRE STEVE HENDERSON.
(kidding, but srs – someone has to know whats up)
So long, Sweet Lime!
If i hear one more time Maddon telling
us “Pat will put up significany numbers when it’s all said and done”, i’ll scream at the TV
What do you call it, a lousy group of players?
Its been a prolonged slump.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
I really don't know anymore
I do think a couple may have had their career year, and others are on the downside
Ah the perfect blend
of the players who were hot were out of their minds and those who weren’t are on the downside such as Old Men Upton and Navarro. This seems likely
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Navarro is the only player on the team who has a July wOBA above his seasonal wOBA
July Season Name
0.384 0.421 Ben Zobrist
0.353 0.38 Carl Crawford
0.325 0.358 Gabe Gross
0.311 0.251 Dioner Navarro
0.311 0.396 Jason Bartlett
0.309 0.31 Pat Burrell
0.297 0.376 Evan Longoria
0.275 0.337 Gabe Kapler
0.273 0.317 B.J. Upton
0.263 0.36 Willy Aybar
0.257 0.357 Carlos Pena
0.178 0.252 Michel Hernandez
0 0.338 Joe Dillon
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Those who were hot have cooled, those who were not hot or good have gotten worse
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
BJ's lack of offensive production is starting to wear on me.
He was fantastic in June, but now would be a nice time to get hot again and maybe take a trot to first base.
I really think he lost where the strike zone is.
Leading off the series he took strike 3 on the outside corner and argued it. Replay seemed to show it was clealy a strike and not even on the black.
by RivalsTees on Jul 30, 2009 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
6 walks in July.
The better news is that his BABIP is .324 so we can’t blame it on that.
It is tough to generate offense when your 3 and 4 hitters (Longo, Los) both have BABIPs under .190 and your #5 is at .260.
I just fear that everyone will get it going after its too late.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I llok for major off season moves
Friedman is not one to wish and hope
He's also not one to be rash
This is a 90 win team.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
DET--8 games BOS--8 games
NYY—7 games TEX—4 games? LAA—4 games?
That's a good thing
We seem to play up/down to our competition (see oak & cle series). Also those are all teams that we need to beat. Meaning if we get into the playoffs we earned it. The way Boston & NY are playing, we could be ahead of Boston after we sweep them next week.
by RivalsTees on Jul 30, 2009 11:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you're asking this team to play 10 games
above 500 in the next 60 games, when in the first 102 they’ve played 8 games above
I'd have to agree with Raymondo
for a team that has had “intensity-issues” all year long, what happens when they know they are out of the race. They can’t keep themselves mentally prepared when they’re in it…If some guys step up, then maybe they do better…but we’ve been waiting for people to ‘step up’ all year, haven’t we?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you see the 9th inning Burrell and Longo HRs in two blowouts this series?
THESE GUYS HAVE EXCELLED WHEN IT DOESN’T MATTER
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice.
I was actually going to say this. The intensity thing is probably a load of shit, but if it is true, then why wouldn’t they preform better when the pressure’s off?
well in blowouts a pitcher will just throw fastballs
and crazy enough, even Burrell can hit that one out. Longoria is starting to get hot again, evidenced by his last 5-6 games. He’s gearing up for a stretch. But don’t think this “intensity” thing is BS. It’s been a problem this year
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You'll never win with these guys
If they had their way the game would be played with robots or video games
That's it.
It’s not like I went to last night’s two games. It’s not like I’m going Friday.
Shit, man, I just look at the stats.
By the way, how many games have you been to?
but it can be quantified, that's the problem
even a member of the team called out the rest of the guys for their lack of intensity earlier this year (Bartlett). The St. Pete Times questioned if they were hitting the clubs a little too much at night. ESPN last night in the telecast spoke about what seemed a lack of intensity compared to the Yankees. It’s one thing to hear it once, but when you hear it from so many sources, or so many sources questioning it, it does add to the weight of the criticism.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
and the Rays give more evidence by their lack of execution
Numerous mental mistakes this year. Defense is way down. Maddon has repeated on numerous occasions, including in the Times today, he doesn’t understand why defense has been an issue when speed and defense are two things you can bring to the park every day, regardless of slumps. They haven’t been as focused or as driven as last year, almost like they just expected it to come on talent alone without executing the little things. This team can’t move runners over well. They get picked off bases. They can’t do the fundamentals they did so well last year. The intensity/passion/mental focus, whatever you want to call it, they haven’t put in that type of effort.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
While i don’t think this is the case with Pena, i question many of the players having down years
i love the team as much as the editors, but let’s start calling them out once in a while, and start with Mr. Upton
I don't know much about specific players
but it seems there to be a team problem. Upton runs differently where it doesn’t always seem like he’s running fast and is more of a reserved guy so he doesn’t always show his passion or frustration outwardly. But then you get moments where it seemed like in the first inning where Upton may have had a chance to beat out the long grounder that Jeter had to track down and it didn’t even seem like it was a close play, which with his speed he should’ve beaten it out or at least been a bang-bang play. That’s what makes Upton so frustrating. He’s so talented, but he’s just not consistent.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The idea that defense and speed don't slump is absolutely ridiculous and regularly proven wrong.
It was well established that no matter what we did in the off season, the defense was going to relapse this year. We’ve done as good a job as preventing that as possible, but team’s simply don’t perform at that high of a level on a year-to-year basis. It doesn’t happen.
As for players getting picked off, I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I certainly recall BJ getting picked off plenty of times last year. Are you going to accuse Kapler of not trying, when he was one of our biggest culprits early in the year for base running mishaps? A mental mistake, sure, but that’s not a lack of effort. I’m pretty positive Gabe Kapler is the exact opposite of a lack of effort.
We weren’t particularly great at “moving the runner over” last year. In fact, our offense isn’t any worse than it was last year. The biggest difference has been the starting pitching – Kazmir was an abortion to start the season, Sonnanstine was getting hit unlucky (tied to the defense) and damned by making some poor decisions, Price has been a disappointment, Garza and Shields have been just fractionally worse (again, most likely related to extra balls falling in).
Last year was an exceptionally special year. We have a good team this year, capable of being an even better team… but we haven’t Nathan Haynes hitting game winning singles, have we? That’s called luck, and that’s the nature of the sport.
it was well known this team could be better this year and still be worse
Everything that could go the Rays way last year, did. I agree with you there. But Maddon disagrees with you on speed and defense. It doesn’t mean that the defense wasn’t bound to regress a little, but when it does it this much, it seems there’s a problem. And secondly, when you have so many sources questioning the intensity, it does give pause.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe Maddon also regularly trotted Troy Percival out in close games in the 9th.
I’m not saying Joe’s a moron, but he’s far from infallible.
If you just look at last year, our defense went through a major slump after the All Star Break.
For the record, we’re third in the league in UZR. We have a fantastic defense. Most of the errors made happened earlier in the year, if I remember correctly. Aki fucked up a number of plays, Aybar fucked up a number of plays, but I don’t think we’re making as many errors in the field as you seem to believe.
it's still been consistent
You had Upton’s misplay in center field recently, Gabe Gross just last night took such a horrible angle and route to the ball that Jeter took what should have been at most a double into a triple. They’ve had their moments of great catches, but they’ve also had some real blunders. The problem is they have not been consistent.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
and we have fantastic defensively-capable players but we do not have a fantastic defense this year.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
um...since when is "middle of the pack" as you say it, fantastic?
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We're 9th in all of MLB in runs allowed.
We’re third in UZR in MLB, first in the AL.
We’re middle of the back in errors.
yes we have great range, but all the other stats point to us being average this year
when we should be better. That’s what makes this frustrating
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We're middle of the back in ErrR at -0.9.
It’s not the debilitating weakness you’re making it out to be.
errors imply attempts on a greater amount of balls in play.
or: range.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
it's frustrating when this team is too good for middle of the pack
Its one thing when you face a tough pitcher. But when you see them make mistakes that are self-inflicted, and know they are more capable than that, it’s disappointing and borderline unacceptable. It’s the same frustration with Upton. Most anger in his direction is because of the high expectations based on his immense talent…and then he has a great June and follows it up with a putrid July…it’s just frustrating
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Any team that makes a deep postseason run has a good amount of luck.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
ie
Joe Blanton coining the term Blanton’d.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not about quanitying, its about looking at the overall body of work
You really think this team will have an August with hitting numbers comparable to July?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
all I can say is that throughout the year, consistently, people have criticized this team's intensity
where there’s smoke there’s usually fire. And when you put all these things together, it seems like too many coincidences.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
So you would like to bet on August's offensive numbers?
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather you predict an AUG record
It’s not simply offense, albeit mainly, it’s a total team collapse, except for a couple individual performances
Thats not been your tune the past few weeks
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say intensity is lacking
But this team is learning how to win with expectations. You’re expecting our best players to do that while being aged 23-27 years old. That’s ridiculous. We still have elite talent. It’s a matter of time, of them taking their lumps and learning. The Yankees are fucking professionals. They’ve been around the game and through more ups and downs than our core has. There is some results based value in experience. That has nothing to do with talent level, though.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
and part of that learning is understanding what you need to bring to the game night-in and night-out
that’s a preparation thing. that’s a focus thing. It’s part of everything else in trying to learn how to be a winner. Understanding that not every bounce goes your way. Understanding that doing the little things is just as important as getting a big hit. This team is young and still learning. And this just shows that they still need to learn in this area.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So then its not intensity or apathy. Good. Agreed.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
but it is intensity
intensity is part of the game. Look, I’m not trying to question their “heart” or whatever. I’m just saying there’s a learning curve to realizing what it takes on a day-to-day basis. Intensity and preparation are two of those elements.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
You're talking about focus.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
intensity and focus are not separable
they tend to involve the same things.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
How many of those people actually watch this team on a day-to-day basis?
I could give two shits about a piss when Steve Phillips thinks we lack intensity.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's a reach to say our effort was inconsistent during the first month or two.
But I don’t see any evidence since then.
I think it's time to get Torts in here so he can win us the Cup
GOOD IS THE ENEMY OF GREAT
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
right
If anything they are pressing which is never good. Its good to play loose but focused.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
When is the last time our offense
has given a SP a early inning lead?
No pitcher can perform well knowing if he gives up a couple runs it’s ballgame
Our offensive stats as i’ve shown are so inflated by early season blowouts
We’ve been inconsistent all year, and that’s being kind
We've been consistent in July, slumping
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
yes I don't give ESPN credence either
but it’s not just them! Jason Bartlett has already called out the team. The Times suggested too many late evenings at clubs. Now when it’s coming from so many sources, you do have to stop and wonder if there is some validity to it. And when it’s already come from within…it seems pretty obvious.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
The Times is about to be defunct, I don't put much stock in what they say
Do they have any evidence of this “partying” too much? Bartlett fine, but that’s what a leader does. He calls his team out for something whether it is true or not to get everyone to up the ante.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
you can't just excuse away every criticism
with any story, anywhere, in a courtroom, whatever..when you have multiple sources, including from within saying the same damn thing, it’s going to make you look long and hard at what they’re saying. All signs point to yes.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
To me, it's an easy excuse
that can’t be proven or disproven. I would think if guys are out then it would show up the next day, not really the night. We are OPS’ing at .735 during day games compared to a .752 AL avg. Not horrendously bad.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
no it's not an easy excuse
it’s taking a look at all these things and saying that it isn’t just coincidences and it can be correlated together. Poorer defense, by a wide margin. More mental mistakes. More errors. Documented cases of a player criticizing his team for lack of effort. Multiple newspapers or sources questioning the same thing. Now, when you understand young team and learning what it takes to win as part of the equasion, it’s very easy to say looking at the evidence and that they are learning that sometimes you have to work harder at creating your own bounces since they won’t always come your way.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
According to you
Bartlett called out the team early in the season, no one internal has suggested this since then. That sounds like picking it up to me.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
not if the evidence on the field says otherwise
continuing to lose to last place teams, other sources continuing to bring up intensity as an issue. Numerous mental mistakes. I do not see enough evidence to say otherwise.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Last place teams win games
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
yes but our win pct. should be much better than what it is, i think we both can agree on that
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Going by what?
Expectations? Pythag? 3rd order wins? If your pitching doesn’t show up, you won’t beat anyone. Perhaps more blame should be pointed in that direction. Or just have Shields do whatever Niemann does to get run support.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree pitching has been an issue
but some of that bad pitching comes from lack of focus. it’s a common complain used when a team can beat good teams and lose to the worst teams in the league. there can be many reasons for it, i just believe focus is definitely one of the causes.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm faorly certain they are correct
you as an editor should know this
Editor?
I don’t work for the Times, nor do I check out webcams from bars from the comfort of my own home. I have no idea what they do, but even Earl Weaver let his guys go out once in a while.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't edit things besides my own work
So I guess, in a sense, I am an editor, but no different than you.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
but as I said just up above
one of the things this team is learning is the type of effort needed to be a playoff team last year game-in and game-out. Since every bounce went their way last year, it almost felt like they just expected some of these things to happen. It’s all part of the learning curve.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Right and bounces going your way or not your way is not a reason to make major offseason moves
beyond what you would normally do. You don’t hit a panic button. I don’t consider trading CC a major move, b/c we would have done that win or lose. You don’t veer from your plan.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
what? who's talking about major offseason moves?
are you even reading the comments? It’s about young players learning about what is needed to win. No one is saying trading anyone.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Raymondo; near the top of this thread that you have been agreeing with him on
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i only agreed with us arriving at a 83-85 win season this year
that’s it.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
85 WINS!!!
TRADE EVERYONE. WE ARE USED TO EXCELLENCE HERE IN ST. PETE.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Steinbrenner'd
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
ahh yes, sarcasm DRaysBay best friend
I did realize that once I agreed with Raymondo anything I said would be rejected in principle around here, but you can’t say that a .500 record or close to it is not a disappointment around here. It’s one thing for NYY and BOS to be better, but it’s quite another to not be beating last place teams, etc, and maybe ending up with .500 record.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
No one is saying there haven't been disappointments this year
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm jumping in mid-debate here
but why are we complaining about lack of focus and pointing to a “close to .500” record? Aren’t the Yanks and Sox “close to .500” also? Their 4 and 7.5 games difference. It’s not like we at .500 or 20 games back.
I just don’t see the record as a valid excuse when we are square in the hunt still. It is a disappointment thus far to not be in first, but over the whole season, it looks like there will be less than 8 game separating all of us at the end of the year.
It’s ok to be frustrated and pissed at how they are playing, but let’s call it what it is. THey haven’t played to their true talent level for whatever reason
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it's really not about the wins or not talent that has been the issue for the most part in this debate
The issue has been the seemingly lack of focus/intensity for a variety of reasons:
1) Bartlett himself called out the team
2) Multiple other sources have given this criticism
3) More mental mistakes than last year
4) More errors this year and overall defensive drop larger than slight regression
5)poor record against last place teams
You can refute one of these items, but to throw them all away as coincidences? It just seems they expected these bounces togo their way and are learning how to play playoff baseball on a consistent basis, thus making game-to-game focus a point of improvement.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
This may get flamed hardcore
but couldn’t you point the inconsistency somewhat towards injuries, and lack of development? Like any team, Longo, Barty, PtB, BJ have all missed significant time. Our backups are servicable, but they are backups/bench players. That could contribute some imo.
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somewhat, except not all of those mesh
can’t use that with B.J. after following up AL Player of the Month in June with a horrible July. Doesn’t make sense with not beating last place teams. Defense shouldn’t be an issue. This team has been inconsistent across the board, and inconsistent focus is one of the many items in the laundry list.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
As far as Beej at the plate
Isn’t it possible that while the shoulder was regaining form and he couldn’t touch a fastball, that teams were inclined to pump him heat? Once he showed that he could catch up again, isn’t it possible that other teams adjusted by giving him more junk? He needs to adjust back, I’ll look at the %’s to see if the numbers bear this out.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
sure it's possible
but it shouldn’t take him a month to put up decent numbers either. But I think you may be on to something there. If you do get a chance to look at the numbers, I’d be curious to see the results.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Beej FB % & Value, respectively
April 69.3 -1.85
May 66.6 -0.97
June 60.6 3.37
July 54.9 -0.20
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
So
A linear drop in fastballs seen, but his POTM came when he jumped all over them. He wasn’t as bad in July as his results show, but perhaps he dropped off in other areas. I’m working on a project right now, but after I’m down I’ll make a fanshot comparing pitch usage and value as a team.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool, needs to regain the patient eagle eye now
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Surprisingly the team BB% in July is in line with the season
Pena and Burrell are both striking out in excess of 36% for the month
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is also where Pena is for the season
Burrell at 28%
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Gross is also striking out like crazy.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yankees lost their #2 SP
their RFer, A-Rod for a month and a half, and Posada
If you think the Yankees are "close to 500"
I’m close to winning mega ball with three numbers
I was speaking more towards the Sox
and yes, I did look at the #‘s. We’re 7.5 and 4 back, I get it. But it’s certainly possible to get back there. For as much of a “slump” as we’ve seen, we also haven;t had the 8 straight or 10 out of 12 that those teams have. If we hit a stretch like that, I’d imagine our chances would increase in regards to the post-season
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Probably true
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
So we should give up if we can't wint he ALE?
I’d take the WC spot.
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Not to mention, the 2009 ALE is probably the most beast-like division ever.
I have no doubts that Baltimore could win the NL Central.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
if trading your best player is not major, what is?
And Longo this year is not better
Thats a move win or lose, not a rash move
The tone and context of your post indicated more than what was already expected
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 30, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I imagine they are trying just as hard this year
I hate to say it, but the Yankees IF was outstanding last night after being laughed at the day before. Obviously, they knew they had some stuff to work on in the morning and went out and did it. That snag by Teix was about 12 feet off the ground. On this point I can agree with you, in that, the Yanks lost a game because their defense was pitiful. They worked at it the next day and made a conscious effort to not get beaten that way again.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
no they're not
at least there are more instances of issues…now i’ll give you that maybe winning masked it and maybe some or all of these things were going on last year as well. I don’t know. What I know is there has been a lot said about the intensity not being there on specific instances.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone from the organization said anything, outside of Bartlett?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, remember when Longoria and Percival were getting stick for yelling at a fan who interfered in a crucial part of the game?
That was 2009, wasn’t it?
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Jul 30, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
it doesn't need to be said more than once to give it some weight
a lot more of this gets handled or discussed in-house. The fact that it was said once in the papers makes it all the more likely for not much to be said now, otherwise it could become a major issue in the public light. And just because you don’t like the Times, doesn’tmean you can dismiss them without any merit.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It's possible that it was an issue that has been corrected
We both can play the assumption game.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
except there's more evidence pointing my way
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Barlett can bitch about people going out to bars after games all he wants.
I’m not saying it’s a good or bad thing either way, but Longoria, Gomes, and a bunch of the other guys were regulars at Fergs, Bishops, Durty Nellys and a variety of other bars around downtown on home trips.
Really killed our luck last year.
whatever
as you’ve stated in this thread already, you know more than Rays players or Maddon, so my hat’s off to you, good sir.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 30, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised if the Indians move Martinez
and as i’ve said about Shapiro all along his first priority is to a NL team
Indians fans are so pissed off at the Lee deal, i can’t imagine the marketing nightmare of trading Martinez now
Wait til they trade Grady for reliever
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore is under a contract till 2014 at a club friendly deal
Look for him to return home to SEA someday
Incorrect
2012 option:
06:$0.5M, 07:$0.75M, 08:$3M, 09:$4.6M, 10:$5.6M, 11:$7.5M, 12:$8.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
What Falls, Cuyahoga, Chagrin, Monroe?
i’m off by a year—my bad
If they couldn't afford a stud pitcher at 8M
What are they going to do with an oft-injured CF that strikes out too much and doesn’t take walks?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
My guess
Would be he’s the foundation for the next couple years … and you’re staring at 2011 trade bait.
And, I can’t say I’m sure what you mean by “oft-injured.”
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 30, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
So you trade your best player just as your window is reopening?
I think it far more likely that they keep paying (overpaying?) him in the future. Who knows what the future holds, but you do have to worry a little about the types of injuries he has played through this year.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
They should probably trade him while he has any value left whatsoever.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
One area that I think should be researched is the correlation of high strikeout teams to variation of team offensive production
I know the correlation to seasonal #’s is insignifigant. However, I would hypothesize that higher strikeout teams may have greater variance of run production
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I'm tired of the sub-thread
The Rays also have played 6 more road games than home
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Stop using logic
We’ll probably just get drunk at home anyway and fall down on the field.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That sub-thread was killer.
For being 4 games behind the WC and only 7 games back from the division without playing our best ball is not discouraging.
Pena and Burrell are worrisome, but I don’t see any reason why Zobrist, Longoria, Upton, Navarro, Crawford, the Gabe of the Day won’t continue producing or rebound. The pitching, aside for Niemann, has no where to go but up. The bullpen’s fine and could get even better as the season progresses.
We have what.. 60 some odd games left? With 10 against the Yanks and 8 against the Sox? Bring it on.
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