OTTOTD 8/11 - The Hulk Hogan Birthday Thread

by ReasonableDoubt on Aug 11, 2009 9:50 AM EDT Comment 130 comments

It's Hulkmas, brother!

Today's starting off topics:

I watched exactly three outs of last night's game, and then fell asleep on the couch. I gather it was another frustrating loss.
In three weeks, it'll be September. Who do you call up, and do you wait for the IL playoffs to end first?
We're depending on the AL Central to help us out this week. That has FAIL written all over it.
Hurricane season is cranking up, and I'm not talking about Miami. Is this the year we get wiped off the map?

Discuss

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What are you, an old man?

Only fucking grandfathers fall asleep on the couch.

Though, I did go crawl in bed halfway through the game and got up about an two innings later to watch the rest.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Roommate is coming back from Key West after a week of lobster diving

This has potential

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone else see the Shelton article on Upton today?

It’s a piece of garbage that is only going to further the misconceptions already out there about Upton.

(I posted this in the postgame thread earlier, but should have posted it here)

Kap-rilla???

by Sveet on Aug 11, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Link?

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love when B.J. says one thing a year and people run with it.

Best part is at the end where Shelton said B.J. should just let his bat do the talking.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Aug 11, 2009 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, results suck

His bat should do the talking.

How long are you willing to have him perform at this level before you don’t support him?

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As long as he keeps playing +15 defense.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who cares about offense, right?

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Runs are runs.

Whether the player is saving them or making them, they all matter in the big picture.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Overall production has been worth nearly 9 million for around 450k

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, this article is trash.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhhhh

Want more? Despite a hot June (he hit .324 to win the AL player of the month award), Upton’s .239 average is 74th in the American League. His on-base percentage is 73rd. His OPS is 78th. Given that, I’m not sure Upton wouldn’t bat ninth in Kansas City’s lineup. Or in Durham’s.

Yeah, wouldn’t bat 9th in Durham. Right.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does Shelton make any mention of BJ's defense?

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

None whatsoever.

Only says that he is “whining”, nevermind he says that his drop in the order is his fault.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't see him use any p-values either

This stuff is meaningless to me.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd

by RaysTheRoof on Aug 11, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its nothing but shoddy journalism to attract retarded readers, and lord knows we have enough of them here.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like those that think that Upon's performance isn't his fault?

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Immediately returning to the playing field after coming off labrum surgery and trying to re-create your swing midseason is a really simple task, after all.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow sarcasm really is a useful discussion tool

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he is unable to play, then it is for all intents and purposes, his fault

this isn’t a moral judgement, it’s a statement of performance. sometimes results do count.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He plays because his great defense makes up for his currently terrible bat.

Even with the terrible bat, he’s been worth 1.8 WAR this far. The FO keeps him active because he’s helping us win games and without Fernando Perez, we don’t have an acceptable replacement for him.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not disagreeing with his defense

the author wrote the article because BJ made such a stink about getting dropped in the order—if BJ knows how bad his offense is, he should not make that stink

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How did he make a stink?

He said it hurts and he is going to work harder to get moved up. I’d like to see the question that this is in response to.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BJ didn’t make a stink. He was asked, and he expressed frustration – with himself and with being forced to hit 9th. He knows he’s better than that and despite his efforts to correct his swing, it hasn’t happened. To struggle in such a manner on a national stage is an extremely frustrating thing.

He didn’t bitch about it. He didn’t call out the front office, he didn’t call out Maddon. He just expressed his frustration with is lack of performance.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO HES WHINING AND NOBODY LIKES HIS WHINING

Also, lazy.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

broken record

why don’t you go try to get a journalist fired for something

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tell me, where did I say I wanted him to be fired?

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gary Shelton's not a journalist anymore than RJ is.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's an editorialist

basically, he can write anything…. he often does

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

...and we disagree with him

Furthermore we’re backing our argument up with logic and statistics instead of trying to shed a negative light on a comment made by Upton.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not trying to attack Upton!

I think it is perfectly reasonable to for Shelton to write his article. Is he right? Eh, maybe, but the point is you guys think he has no basis for his words, and i think he at least has some.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he has basis

but I care not for his shit-stirring in this case, Upton has said he knows this is his fault and he wants to correct it, and is still playing excellent defense, yet Shelton is throwing it all out the window and calling it “whining”.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And people that have a vested interest in stirring up a pot blew it out of proportion

much like they do with anything that will draw eyes to their words.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sometimes true

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did say it was a kick in the face

Now, this, in my opinion, is the crux of the debate, how one interprets this comment

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yet you're throwing that one crucial detail out the window...

You know, the one where he says “its my fault”.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's talking jive

I wouldn’t expect your square mind to interpret it correctly, go put on your slippers, light your pipe, and read the evening paper.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't help but feel bad for the guy too, hes very shy and reserved and you can tell hes unhappy with his performance.

I wonder if we can send him to some batting coach in New York and work some kind of Kazmir-esque magic.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He needs the swing mechanic

/ducks as R.J. throws laptop at me.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Aug 11, 2009 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

That's the problem I have with the article

If he wants to say he has sucked and they should let the pitcher hit and DH for Upton that’s fine. Idiotic, but fine.

But don’t say the guy is “whining” about his spot in the order or say the Upton doesn’t understand why he is batting lower. Maybe I missed something, but I didn’t see one quote or action which indicated that Upton thought anything like that.

Kap-rilla???

by Sveet on Aug 11, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Josey Wales says

I quit watching him at strikeout number 3 tonight! He is clearly pouting and just standing up there going through the motions! BENCH HIM, CUT HIM, SPANK HIM! DO SOMETHING JOE, HE IS A CANCER!

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wayne says

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Rays Mgmt, DO NOT bring BJ back next year. Do you want these SAME RESULTS? Another malcontent? A clubhouse distraction. Let him go. Perez will replace BJs speed in CF/on bases and bring his bat to play. BJ just doesn’t get it.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The time is NOW JOE!!

SPANK HIM!!

Duemig is alive, NOT FOR LONG though....

by Some other guy who does not care on Aug 11, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. He never said any of it, and has said multiple times that he is disappointed with himself.

I must have missed the impressive batting of BJ Upton. He complained he is batting 9, oh that’s right we should have just left you on the bench and conceeded the at bat out. Should be Bad Job Upton. I know it had to be the umpire, never you.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cat says

Upton’s a bad egg. Not quite as bad as Elijah Dukes or Delmon Young but in the same “me first” mold. The sooner gone the better…Desmond Jennings will be at least an equal replacement on offense, defenses, and baserunning

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

/heater'd

Ok, seriously….can we show Pat “No Bat” Burrell the bench for the rest of the year? This guy is an absolute JOKE. For all the comments that I see in the paper from him, I haven’t seen a single one saying anything to the effect of “I’m not getting it done”.

While we are at it, let’s sit BJ right next to him until he stops his whining and starts hitting. Couple of primadonna losers.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Not that Jennings has ever been accused of a felony or anything…

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He can play multiple positions apparently as shown by his defenses

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Desmond had awful grades too.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's not white either.

by floridaroar on Aug 11, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is OK to make that argument

He is performing terribly as a leadoff man. Terribly. For Upton to make a stink about being dropped? I think that qualifies.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find it terribly amusing how you seem to think everyone hear doesn't realize his bat's been terrible this year.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you guys are complaining that other people are complaining about his offense

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seems pretty amusing to me

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

considering some of you are even going as far as to call this article libel

someone called for the author to be fired over lies on the recap thread—now that is extreme

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're either with us

or you’re with the terrorists

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Nancy Pelosi

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not Nancy Pelosi

How come all you beaneaters have such a chip on your shoulder?

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was making a topical and sarcastic response

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pelosi is still relevant?

I was making a generalization that I find to be more and more true every day that goes by. It’s like the entire city of Boston has a Napoleon Complex.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She called protestors

UN-American

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I'm only a resident of Boston, I come from Florida just like you

I come for the pointy heads and ivory towers

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't come from Florida I just went to college there and stuck around a couple of years

I was raised in upstate NY where there ain’t much to do but play sports and get a good education. it sucks

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And freeze.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Summer has been glorious

I travel a lot for work so during the winter I should be in Cali, Tx, Fl, maybe Ga, Who knows where I’ll end up

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

Winter is a great time to be in the South

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't pay attention to what a bunch of hippies out in

Cali-forn-i-a have to say.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's more like complaining that people are complaining about BJ possibly-or-possibly-not complaining

Meta for the win

by antimatter on Aug 11, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

postmodern comment

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

There’s a slight, but critical difference.

People here are bothered because of the way people are attacking BJ. Writers and other fans don’t seem to appreciate the fact that has soon as BJ was capable of taking swings without hurting himself, the front office had him back at the major league level. A major league hitters swing is a delicate thing. For someone who all ready had a herky-jeryk swing, this has been particularly devastating event for BJ. Everyone here expected him to regress back to his normal offensive standards after a while, and he appeared to be doing that in June. Since then, he’s been terrible and his swing looks completely discombobulated. Everyone who follows this team knows that BJ has been bad offensively.

However, unlike other “fans” and writers, most people here appreciate that BJ’s struggles aren’t do to “laziness” or lack of caring – he’s dealing with health issues directly affecting his swing. Because of his defense, though, he’s still a valuable player for us.

His offense is bad. Strikeouts do not make you lazy, or a selfish egomaniac. This is why DRays Bay commentators and moderators have an issue with Gary Shelton’s article. It’s the kind of material that gets digested and distorted by radio personalities and “fans” and gets BJ booed for no good reason.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you make a decent argument

Except, that he isn’t getting booed for no reason. He’s getting booed by the Trop for his strikeouts. Is the local media beating the drum for that effect? Maybe. Not conclusive though.

I also think this site is willing to give BJ far more benefit of the doubt. Why? I dunno. But within a short sample size—June—people declared BJ back… when he wasn’t.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I think that benefit of the doubt here, is what makes and article like

Shelton’s seem so out of proportion.

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But its mostly aimed at BJ, if strikeouts were the sole cause of boos

Pena, Longo and PTB would be hearing them as well

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Aug 11, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IT IS!!!

by plasticman on Aug 11, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we are still in a tight race for the Wild Card when September rolls around

I sure hope they bring up whoever they want and aren’t worrying about the IL playoffs

Kap-rilla???

by Sveet on Aug 11, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

While I'm sure Friedman respects what the Bulls are doing down there

They are there to serve the big league club. As bad it maybe for their fans if we need Matt Joyce, Reid Brignac and co. in the middle of their playoff run than so be it. However, if its just to sit on the bench I’m sure he’ll wait.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Aug 11, 2009 10:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

http://tampabayraysblog.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/bj-upton-aint-that-a-kick-in-the-head.html

Oh wow.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I got one betters

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-rays&tid=29476

Duemig is alive, NOT FOR LONG though....

by Some other guy who does not care on Aug 11, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uhh

Agreed! He is b*tch*n’ about batting in the 9th hole when he should be grateful he isn’t sitting his a** on the bench in Durham. I mean really….who does he think he is?! He acts like a 15 year vet who feels he’s entitled to something due to the great career he’s had. He hasn’t really done anything. Other than last year’s run in the post season what mark has he really made in MLB? NONE!

I said it before and I stand by it…. I think his attitude will get in the way of his development and he’ll end up being a postscript to a career that could have been. His legacy will be “the guy that had all the potential in the world but…..”

JMHO

Duemig is alive, NOT FOR LONG though....

by Some other guy who does not care on Aug 11, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahahaha.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As far as call-ups

my guess is we see Brignac, Jaso, Riggans (if healthy) (we have Albernaz, Lobaton, and Jamieson who can all play in AAA), Joyce, Ruggiano, Perez, Johnson, Aki, Nelson, Thayer, the new loogy, Davis, and possibly Hellickson (I don’t see why he shouldn’t get the same oppurtunity as Price last year, while he hasn’t had the same hype around him he has been better throughout the minors and has electric stuff as well)

I know that is a lot of guys to bring up and we probably won’t brung up all of them but there really isn’t anyone on that list that I wouldn’t want to see called up and/or deserve a call-up (Ruggiano, as much as I hate to say it. If we are going to stash him away in AAA forever we at least owe him a Sep call-up)

by Dbullsfan on Aug 11, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No reason to call up Jaso

He hasn’t hit this year, and best I can tell, he still isn’t any better than Navi defensively.

Brignac, Joyce, Perez, Aki, Nelson and Thayer all seem pretty likely. Davis and Hellickson probably stay down in the name of player development.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow just saw that J-Zim got TJS

He looked strong against us taking a ND when we battered that NatiLOL bullpen. Sucks, but if he’s right when Strasburg comes up (if he signs) that has the makings of a nice top of the rotation.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 11, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't have a problem with someone taking a position and arguing it, contrary or not.

But, practicing intellectual dishonesty and feeding an incorrect assumption is just bullshit.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 11, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really care how people feel about B.J. as long as it's logical.

“His offense is bad this year” is correct.

Making no mention of his defense and baserunning when you try and value a player is not.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 11, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Aug 11, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i've made a huge mistake

Selgy

by mittens on Aug 11, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They need to put 'The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret' on BBC America

Written by David Cross, Starring Cross, Arnett and Spike Jonze.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Aug 11, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 11, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nice

i’ll have to look into this

Selgy

by mittens on Aug 11, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by mittens on Aug 11, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by EminenceFront on Aug 11, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I used Nostrand for writing background music a few times.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 11, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's good shit.

They are somehow soft yet powerful at the same time.

Sign lady must die.

by EminenceFront on Aug 11, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh, sounds kinda samey

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Aug 11, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two very aged sluggers hit 3 critical homers off us in less than 4 days.

FIRE HICKEY.

So long, Sweet Lime!

by PlayOnWords on Aug 11, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

General Motors announced today that its forthcoming electric vehicle, the Chevrolet Volt, will achieve city fuel economy of 230 miles per gallon, under testing that used draft federal fuel economy methodology standards for plug-in cars.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Aug 11, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs