Does Longoria Make Bartlett Look Bad

by tallyray on Aug 11, 2009 2:37 PM EDT Comment 9 comments

Removed this conversation from the Bartlett thread...

Bartlett's UZR has taken quite the plunge the last couple years but is Bartlett or Longoria to blame?

One thing that I noticed when looking at the 2009 UZR numbers is the apparent inverse relationship between the Top 3B and the SS that takes the field next to them.

Looking the top 7 from 2009 we have the following pairs (the top 7 have posted numbers clearly above the rest)

2009 Top 7 3B and SS rating

Evan Longoria 15.5________________Jason Bartlett -4.0
Ryan Zimmerman 15.5_____________Christian Guzman -5.2
Jack Hannahan 12.1_______________Orlando Cabrera -11.4
Joe Crede 10.9___________________Nick Punto 0.8
Adrian Beltre 9.5__________________Yuniesky Bentancourt -18.8
Brandon Inge 9.5_________________Adam Everett 0.5
Chone Figgins 11.2_______________Erick Aybar 2.1

Lets look at positional ranks of 3B and SS: (3B first, then SS based on UZR rank)

1 – 28
2 – 29
3 – 31
4 – 19
5 – 32
6 – 21
7 – 15
8 – 7
9 – 2
10 – 4

The first seven seem to show a strong inverse relationship then it just disappears.

I quickly pulled up the 2008 numbers and the relationship isn't nearly as strong. (Only ranked 27 3B and 29 SS based on sample)

1-13
2-27
3-21
4-12
5-9
6-3

Lets look at Orlando Cabrera. He has been the second worst SS this year based on UZR. He's at -11.4 this year. In 2008, however, he was the second best rated SS at +14. This year he has played most of the season with Jack Hannahan next to him and Hannahan has been one of the absolute best 3B the past two years. However, in 2008 he played next to Joe Crede who has been pretty good himself.

I'm surprised that this research hasn't been done in the past and that's the main purpose for posting this. My basic hypothesis would be that certain 3B can strongly affect the SS next to them and would guess that is the case with Longoria.

Anyone?

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Comments

Presumably Bartlett's range would be reduced going to his right

if Longoria were getting to a lot more balls.

However, based on the +/- stats of BP (I think) this was not the case. His range took a hit when going up the middle, not to the right. It was previously discussed on this site. Here.

I don’t think the same data exists for UZR, unfortunately.

by RaysTheRoof on Aug 11, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Correction

The fielding metric being used is John Dewan’s Plus/Minus, which seemed to mirror UZR in evaluating JB through 2008.

by RaysTheRoof on Aug 11, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be the presumption...

And it is interesting if his struggles came from the other side. I don’t know if positioning could/would be an issue either.

by tallyray on Aug 11, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I looked for OF overlap too

I took the teams CF RngR for 2006-2009
I also looked at CC’s RngR per 1350 Inn (150 games)
Here they are:

Yr———-CF RngR———CCLF RngR150
2006——-8.2——————13.0
2007——-(-21.4)———-1.36
2008——-10.2—————-21.4
2009——-1.9——————-9.96

CCs range has measured better when the CF has measured better too. In fact CC and CF rank 1-4 in the same years. Its a small sample and CC has had leg issues at times, but I think its interesting

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by FreeZorilla on Aug 11, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So no stealing balls from each other in this case.

Interesting

by RaysTheRoof on Aug 11, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't have access to FG right now, but

Bartlett has been in a steady decline since 2005. It’s not just since joining Longoria on the left side. Still interesting to see how many good 3B have pretty shitty SS next to them.

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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 11, 2009 3:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Everett was consistently a fantastic defender prior to this year.

That could easily be attributed to injuries and age catching up with him, though, particularly since it’s believed most SS’s take a steep dive around 31.

by Suttree on Aug 11, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it makes sense to a degree that Longo would be taking some away from Bartlett

Isn’t there a graph that shows the number of balls hit to areas of the field where it breaks down the areas of the field into relatively small chunks? An analytical view of that could potentially solve the mystery.

by behn on Aug 11, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd, good work

I definatley think its a topic worth looking at more (especiall with infielders). Mixed with some analysis of ability to each players’ left or right it could give us a more in-depth look at defense at the positions. Interesting that it didn’t show in the OF. Anecdotally it seems that Upton makes his money going forward and back, not necessarily side to side.

by Navi's_Navy on Aug 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs