Press Release: Tampa Bay Rays Do Not Expect to Sign LeVon Washington or Kenny Diekroeger
Straight from the proverbial horse's mouth:
ST. PETERSBURG, FLA. -The Tampa Bay Rays announced today that the organization does not expect to reach agreement with its first- and second-round picks from the 2009 June First-Year Player Draft before tonight's midnight EST deadline. The Rays would receive equivalent draft picks in the 2010 June First-Year Player Draft if these players do not sign.
The Rays selected outfielder LeVon Washington with the 30th pick in the first round and infielder Kenneth (Kenny) Diekroeger with the 29th pick of the second round, 78th overall.
"We are disappointed that LeVon has chosen not to sign with the Rays," said Andrew Friedman, Rays Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations. "We offered him a bonus consistent with late-first-round picks. Immediately following the draft, he seemed eager to sign but it has not materialized. We wish LeVon great success with his baseball career."
Washington, 18, hit .400 (34-for-85) this Spring with seven home runs, 14 stolen bases, 19 RBI, four doubles, one triple, and 32 runs scored at Buchholz High School in Gainesville, Fla. Baseball America ranked him as the No. 2 "fastest runner" among high school players entering the draft. Baseball America also rated him the No. 29 prospect entering the draft, and the No. 9 center fielder.
Diekroeger, 18, attended Menlo High School in Atherton, Calif., where he hit .586 (34-for-58) with four home runs and 20 RBI during his senior year. He was the highest-drafted player ever out of Menlo High.
"When we drafted Kenny, we went in with our eyes wide open, knowing he had a strong desire to attend Stanford University," Friedman said. "We knew that we would either be signing a top talent or receiving a comparable pick in the 2010 draft. We wish Kenny all the best at Stanford."
The Rays have signed 32 of their 50 selections from Draft, including 15 of their first 20.
Reaction in a few minutes.
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Comments
washington will sign...
this is just posturing. none of the Boras 1st rounders have signed yet, have they? as soon as Strasbug signs the rest will roll in…
Strasburg will come last
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Bad Draft.
You can’t not sign your first two picks and consider it a good draft. Sorry.
Why is that, they spend the money to ensure they signed 3, 4, 5+
They get extra picks next year when they will have a better idea of money as well as a most likely increase in season ticket holders. AF is no fool.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Because they haven't spent close to what they did last year
and we’re going to take below-slot guys who are sure signs with the comp picks since if we don’t sign the guy we take with them, we lose them. The players we take with the comp picks will not be as good as Diekroeger/Washington.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What if they never had the intention of signing those guys period?
You can’t trade a draft pick and with such a deep system why tie up multi-millions in a couple of other bonus babies?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Because that's terrible logic
A team that says they have TOO MUCH minor league depth is… a team that isn’t smart, quite frankly.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you would draft soomeone other than Levon if you had no intention of signing..
Draft someone other teams would actually be pissed to not get.
Also, there is no way this would ever happen. Draft picks are a bargain over the long haul. If they wanted to just pay slot they would have drafted a college player.
Even slot was a million bucks
Why not go cheap. Another angle is, if budget constraints were based on a revenue-level that hasn’t been reached (as stated by AF’s attendance concerns) why not save a few mil on the draft, where it is a complete crapshoot? I’d rather they take money out of that coffer than to not be able to get our arb cases re-signed.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If we have to choose between those two to spend our money
Then we’re in some real financial trouble
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Where would you like to see dollars taken from to play the lottery?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You can dip into one to cover the other
It’s dashed lines in a spreadsheet not a lockbox at MCO
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rays need to spend money on the draft to be an effective franchise
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They need to spend efficiently on the draft to be an effective franchise
not to be held hostage by burners and golden boys
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Then they should have drafted better picks
They can do their diligence in advance.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Washington was a good choice assuming he would have taken slot
He has no reason to demand more than that other than the fact that he’s a “FIRST ROUND PICK”.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They knew he was advised by Boras
They knew he had a strong commitment to UF
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Scouts have contact with players beforehand
They should have known what it would’ve taken to sign
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not taking into account the idea that Levon could have lied in f2f meetings
in order to elevate his draft spot. It takes 2 to tango
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The scouts talked to the player not the agent
If my agent is Scott Boras, and he tells me that I’ll make more money by going to college, I’ll probably end up going to college.
There is a huge risk in not taking 1st round money when its offered
I hope Levon understands exactly what he’s risking.
If you want to play that card
Then tell me why they spent 6 million on Beckham(more than this year’s entire class combined)
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Beckham has incredible upside and plays the second hardest position to fill on the diamond
The next Barry Larkin is pretty high praise. Much higher than the next Joey Gathright
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Levon's upside is closer to Crawford than Gathright
And I’m not high on Beckham at all
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll believe that when I see it.
At one time Gathright’s upside was Crawford as well.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm more concerned with Diekroeger
Who in terms of raw tools, grades out about as high as Beckham, and whose high school performance was better than Beckham’s, while playing the same position. He doesn’t have as much projection, and thus he legitimately wasn’t a top 10 pick, but I can see where he would hold out for first round money.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Considering we drafted 3 total ML pitchers
And 3 total position players on the current 25-man, I disagree somewhat. It’s important, but only one component of franchise efficacy.
So long, Sweet Lime!
And how many of them came via trade for guys we did draft?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Didn't the term "Friedman'd" originate with the flipping of fringe prospects or long term non-contributors for ML pieces?
So, maybe he knows which guys are the ones we need to break the bank for.
And, yeah, this isn’t great. But the draft isn’t a total failure because of this.
So long, Sweet Lime!
It originated by finding pieces that other teams were undervaluing, and then underpaying for them
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
There's a distinction between what we said
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Not a total failure but
the point is to add talent. By not signing these two, they’ll almost certainly get worse players with the top picks, so they’re not adding as much talent. Does anyone else really want another Will Kline next year with one of the comp picks?
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh
Maybe. But I suspect he won’t make it to the majors. Everything about him looked good but not great, and I’m not sure he has the pop to hit well long term.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
If they never intended to sign them
They would have taken better players.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I think that's a great point
I’m just trying to rationalize this, the majority will see us not signing our top 2 picks and get inflammatory. Surely there was a reason.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a rationalization
And I understand it (which is what I said RJ’s explanation will be above), but it doesn’t keep me from thinking it’s still a bad move. Don’t draft two guys with a good chance of not signing with the first two picks, simple as that. If you want to reach for someone who might not sign, do it after the third round.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I'm thinking they originally thought levon would be an easy sign, like all of us did
it didn’t end up working out that way. Nonetheless. AF & co have to take some responsibility for the situation.
Diekroeger i could see coming
but not getting levon is a mini-disaster.
Levon over-inflating his burner ass due to Iago in his ear is the disaster
That should have been a nice slot pick. I don’t blame the FO for not acquiescing to the demands of greed.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I blame the scout then for not doing the diligence
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Find out whether or not he is going to be an easy sign
If you get completely fooled, which seems to be what happened then levon then that means you fucked up. The Rays FO fucked up if they don’t sign levon
While the language is a bit harsh
It was an error. I don’t think Kenny was an error.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Sorry, about that
For some reason this is really pissing me off.
It's called a hustle
Levon intimates that he will be an easy sign, gets drafted 10 spots higher than he should have and then demands more money. Kudos to him for looking out at his financial future, though I think he will regret it when reality invades.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Good front offices shouldn''t get hustles by 18 year olds. sorry
I agree Levon will regret not signing tremendously.
It happens
Your ultra-negativity is crazy.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not ultra-negative
maybe more pessimistic than most.
You're more pessimistic than I am optimistic
and sometimes I even amaze myself with the occasional homerism.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes the pot boils over
My passion is both my greatest strength and a debilitating weakness
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree on LeVon
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Come on.
We don’t sign two picks and you are arguing it is a good draft because we were able to sign some overslot guys? I don’t buy it. They haven’t spent even what they spent on Beckham last year.
Picks next year are fine, but far less valuable than picks this year.
2 of those guys would have been first rounders if they weren't injured
Keep it in perspective
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not the end of the world
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't believe that.
Ive probably heard that 100 different guys would have been 1st rounders without signing/injury issues.
But they were, and they weren't
The fact that neither one got anything close to a first round bonus shows that both of them knew they weren’t first rounders.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
They all got over 3x over-slot
A good compromise if you ask me.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But they didn't get first-round money, which is the point.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
They got second round money.
Im happy we signed them, but it doesn’t excuse losing 1st and 2nd rounders
You realize the odds of the 30th and 59th pick ever contributing at the ML level are extremely slim?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But they're greater than 3rd, 4th or 5th rounders
And you need to have these types of players sign in bulk. The chance of any single one of them contributing is slim, but if you sign 5 guys like that, the chance of one of them contributing is quite great.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Which is why I am happy to get 3,4,5 who I thought were better players that faced signability questions
Instead of harping on the negative I’m looking at the positive. I’d rather have 3, 4, 5 than 1, 2, 6
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There isn't much of an excuse for not signing at least 5 of your top 6
You can take one risky guy with the top pick, but you better be prepared to pay marginally more than you want to.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
It's a crapshoot, yes.
but the more players you get with high ceiling the more chances you have. This is how you build farm systems.
Levon has a high ceiling?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is free
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd probably rather have BalDLli then No One playing a position on this team.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I think they can insert someone else than just play without a CF in rookie ball
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The scouting department thinks so
High risk-high reward type
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don't see it
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I ask why?
The BA scouting report says he can hit plus he’s athletic.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
CF is not nearly as hard to learn. As Matthan has mentioned time and again
You can just stick some offensively challenged burner out there that can catch everything and still have a league-average player. If Beckham can stay at SS (not easy considering a ton of more talented guys have been forced off the spot) then he can bring well above-average defense with an average bat. I don’t see Levon as anything more than a slappy guy that used his speed well. That stuff works great in HS, not so much at advanced levels.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Levon has above-average bat speed
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Will it translate to gap power when he faces real pitching?
FL is a great state for HS baseball, but a Rookie level team would crush a HS team 99% of the time.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Quote
“Like Damon, Washington can hit, and he was moving up draft boards thanks to his blazing speed and consistent spring. A 6.2-second runner over 60 yards at showcases, Washington has played mostly infield but doesn’t have the arm for it, and most scouts see him as an outfielder thanks to his easy speed. Washington has bat speed at the plate, giving him solid pop, though not true power, and he has shown signs of developing a good pro approach.”
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
They make no mention of his discipline
This is a league where Luis Castillo has found a nice niche by swinging at nothing and legging them out when he does make contact. Sure there could be a place, but as the mention if his arm is weak in the IF how is it going to be in CF.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The arm stuff is a bunch of bullshit
prior to surgery he was clocked in low 90s.
Also a “good pro approach” i think means good plate discipline.
And "showing signs of developing" is a euphimism for
“coachable, but not close to there yet”.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
were you expecting a major league quality hitter
at 18 years of age?
Don't be asinine
I was expecting a guy that hasn’t completely relied on his speed to this point. How many of those 7 homers went over a fence?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably all of them...
it’s high school.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Aug 17, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You're picking on an 18-year old for maybe not having good plate discipline
But you like Beckham. And the pro approach thing.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Beckham has shown he can hit gap doubles
I’ll take the slg points over the OBP points in his case, Levon has proven nothing.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
We were giving him that opportunity and a compensation
level that was fair, he is choosing not to take that opportunity. Good luck to him.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't true.
Castillo has insanely good plate discipline. If it’s not in the zone, he doesn’t swing.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That was my point
I remember Dave Allen’s (I think it was him over on FG) showing the circled zones that Castillo swings at depending on the number of strikes. With 0 strikes he basically swings at hangers and meatballs and that’s it. Then slightly expands from there. Nobody swing at nothing I apologize if my exaggeration was taken that way.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I read it as "Castillo's niche is using his speed only to beat out grounders"
Which is somewhat true, but it’s not like he’s without any “baseball” skill.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's had a fine career given his talent-level
He maximizes what he can do and doesn’t dabble in the things he can’t. A lot of guys never make that distinction and flame out. I like that he is a throwback
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm admittedly not a great follower of HS ball
But would an amazingly quick guy with above average bat speed not leg out more than .400 worth of hits?
So long, Sweet Lime!
So basically it entirely to do with the positions they played in HS.
I think this is silly. We all know how often players switch positions in the minors. Position would make Beckham have a bit higher of a ceiling, but it doesn’t mean Levon has a low ceiling.
In terms of batting skills I don’t see Beckham as being any more advanced than Levon coming out of high school
If Bex can stay at SS he can get away with a below-league average bat
Levon has already played his way out of the IF. He needs to show at least a league-average bat in my mind.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he has already played his way out of the infield.
he had the arm for it before surgery. it could come back. I’m not arguing levon>beckham. i just think both have high upside.
any chance this is a smokescreen?
aimed at making levon sign?
Well it aint over till its over technically
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 17, 2009 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's wierd they would make an announcement so far from the deadline, no?
Maybe trying to show levon that they are ready to move on without him?
seems weird to me
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 17, 2009 1:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's possible
The Rays aren’t allowed to talk to LeVon directly. Maybe their theory is that Borass is running interference and giving LeVon bad advice, and that LeVon won’t know it unless they put something out there publicly that LeVon might see.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
This seems possible.
I’d assume someone will show this to Levon.
Boras is such a pain in the ass
"Reaction in a few minutes"
Will RJ post his first ever negative reaction to a move by Stu & Co.? I checked the magic 8-ball, and my sources say no. Analysis something along the lines of “weak draft anyway, knew they could get the comp picks, so they didn’t pay more than they were worth.”
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
...
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/8/15/990575/reid-brignac-recalled-from-durham#19724864
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I think the highest RJ ever had for Diekroeger was 50/50
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
i lay it out there
i wish i could get back my old username
You had sternfan at the indians forum?
I’ll unban the other name, but you can’t have both. One or the other.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
It's the same guy. It doesn't matter. There isn't even an alt joke. It's the same guy.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
No..I forget sometimes you are him because it will make me hate you less.
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
No it isn't. It's a banned account. All we'd have to do is unban it.
But like I said, if you take Sternfan1 back, I ban Raymondo instead. No reason for 2 accounts.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Aug 17, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He told me enough he told me Sterfan 1 killed him!!!
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I loved watching Harry Potter fans cry during the movie when Snape killed Dumbledore
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I can't believe I actually managed to get 2 people with that spoiler just before the movie came out.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I just loved ruining it for people
when the last book came out I walked around saying spoilers with my buddy
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
A couple of big men you guys are
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
They should've read the book if they really wanted to be suprised.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
The movies are well-constructed,
just because you read a 600 page children’s book doesn’t give you the right to lord that over anyone’s head.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeradik
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
He has all those years of experience.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I didn't read the book, and I am not at all interested in Harry Potter.
But I am interested in internet memes, and this one is as old as dirt. This is like saying that Rosebud is a God Damn sled. Nobody should be suprised by now.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Or people don't have time to read a huge children's book
because they actually have to work for a living instead of surfing the web all day. I’ve seen like 3 of the movies and, though not great, they were mildly entertaining. I would not waste 2 weeks of my life reading about it.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ok I just like to ruin it cuz Harry Potter sucks
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I think you could read these books in a few days.
Assuming your reading level is comensurate with your education.
I could, but I wouldn't devote more than an hour a
day to each book. If I read 60 pages in an hour, that’s like 10 hours. So like 10 days.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You say, "I want to use Sternfan1 instead of Raymondo", and I unban Sternfan1 and ban Raymondo.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
No.
You just log out of this account and into the other.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm waiting for him to send me an email telling me he forgot his password.
So I can respond, “I can’t reset your password.” And I end up undoing this.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Just ban them both
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd reply with something snarky
But you’d just go talk about how I’m a Nazi on some other site.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Reaction right now
It’s inexcusable to not sign your first two picks(the Yankees committed this sin last year) and even if we use the money to sign Pierce Johnson or Dylan Floro, it’s a bad situation.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
Unless they come back to be top picks in a few years
I mean, do you think we would have rather signed Mike Minor? Jacoby Ellsbury? David Bush? And about a hundred other guys who we drafted, didn’t sign, and then became much higher draft picks later on?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Him too
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
This isn't ideal.
But Malm and Bailey seem to be excellent pickups at spots where we have an organizational deficit. I said it in the other thread, but I still consider this to be a solid to good draft.
So long, Sweet Lime!
My problem is we had so few position prospects, this just delays us another year
from getting much needed help
and busts when the Rays don't sign them
you can’t always have it both ways
This is Bullshit.
We better get Dennis and BOTH of Johnson of Floro.
How the fuck we spend $6.5 ON ONE PERSON last year, and can’t even spend that same amount on Washington and DK?
I didn't say I wasn't flawless, but I damn sho' don't tarnish!
So if the Nats spend $20 million on Strasburg
They should spend $20 million on each draft? You cant compare past drafts to current. We picked 1/1 last year not 1/30.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 17, 2009 2:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's an extreme comparison because Strasburg is such an outlier
The point is the draft budget should remain pretty steady from year-to-year.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Most teams go from 1st overall to 30th overall in one season.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What does that matter?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It's an outlier.
And an extreme comparison to expect us to keep the same exact budget when we’re picking at the end of the first instead of first overall.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I do expect us to keep relatively the same budget
I do expect that the allocation of that budget to be different. The draft budget should obviously be less, but the FA budget or Arb budget should go up. The total outflow should be close be close to the same. Or at worst the money saved in one year should be applied to future years.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
that seems like an outlier
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 17, 2009 2:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why is that?
Talent comes and goes year by year just as with Free Agency…overspending on kids is not good business.
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
So we shouldn't have gone and signed Bailey, Malm, Glaesmann, etc to overslot deals?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Spending the same money year and year out doesn't make any sense.
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
No, but if you were willing to spend then why not now?
And if not now, why draft Washington/Diekroeger?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Finances change on a yearly basis.
We are not in the same position this year as years past
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
Washington was SUPPOSED to be a signability pick.
And then it blew up in our faces.
I didn't say I wasn't flawless, but I damn sho' don't tarnish!
This has been my point
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it was a horrible pick in the first place.
Tim Wheeler signed for what, $750,000? If we wanted and outfielder who was cheap, we should’ve taken him.
I didn't say I wasn't flawless, but I damn sho' don't tarnish!
It was a very bad pick
LeVon is not a first rounder. He shouldn’t be paid overslot.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
Why must there always be blame?
I’m pretty sure it cuts both ways. When the milk goes sour people always want to assign blame instead of figuring out what went wrong and to stop it from happening in the future.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate how people on here refuse to ever blame the FO
for anything bad that happens.
I blame them for dumping Dukes.
Only real tiger in the zoo and we got rid of him because of some sex? What the hell.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
They make mistakes like any other organization, without a magic 8 ball (not a Hambone joke)
but I’m also not going to sit here and call somebody out for something that I wasn’t part of the process on. I have no idea how negotiations went or what happened behind the curtain. I give them the benefit of the doubt because they are more right than wrong. Personally, I didn’t like not trading Bartlett at the trade deadline. I’m not going to run up the streets screaming bloody murder, because I’m not in the position to have all the facts.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh shit.
I didn’t like not trading Bartlett at the trade deadline
This will be bloody.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt Bartlett should be trading this off season
if we can get someone to give us value based on his ’09 production.
Brignac can’t stay in AAa forever.
I like efficiency, my German ancestors would be proud
I’m not sure if they called and there was no market, but that seemed like the easiest deal to be made while a guy has a ton of value to another team. Bartlett for Brett Wallace straight up would have been sick.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And show the team that if you work really hard at lifting weights in the off-season
And play your ass off that you get dealt?
Team chemistry would’ve been shattered.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
diaf with your populist demands
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess this kind of reflects on our opposing views
on Jim Hickey as well.
Yeah that's a good way to put it
I don’t see what Hickey does on a behind the scenes basis. In-game instruction is about 3% of his job. Though it’s 100% of his exposure.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm starting to lean more toward Navarro being a terrible catcher in almost every dimension
than the source of our SP problems being Hickey.
So long, Sweet Lime!
I wish we could send him to another dimension
Who ya gonna call?

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of the analyses put together
show that teams, on the whole, underspend on the draft. Maybe it’s not wise to spend a ton on one player, but generally teams get more out of the draft than they put in.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
its more often than not
a very good long-term investment. For this team, it’s more critical than for others.
do you really see this team active in any free agent market? c'mon. we have tremendous budget restraints.
overspending by itself does not sound good. but again, we need to keep a strong minor league system and SIGN our picks.
He wasn't saying that.
He was comparing the draft to free agency.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If they're worthwhile? Absolutely you should sign them.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you not understand this.
They thought he was worth X amount of dollars when they signed him.
Now he wants X + Y = more than the Rays think he is worth.
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
I meant to say when they 'drafted' him
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
I understand it asshole
It’s on them if they draft a guy they can’t sign. That means its a bad draft. What don’t you understand?
Pick someone you can sign.
They don’t get a free pass because they didn’t do enough research to find out whether he was really signable.
No need to call people names
Perhaps you get frustrated when confronted with rational thoughts based on observation, but don’t resort to name-calling.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
everything you agree with is rational. everything else is not.
Not always true, but usually.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Pick someone you can sign?
This happens year in, year out to every team. Please remember you are dealing with the most intangible product out there.
"I want to live in a world where a solo homerun in the 2nd inning counts as much as a solo homerun in the 8th."
Very few teams don't sign there first and second rounders
sorry for the name calling.
I’m not happy with Levon either. I think he should sign for slot. But I’m not willing to let the FO off the hook. It’s not like whether someone will sign is totally unpredictable.
How much more can he really be asking for?
I don’t know if this applies to Levon specifically, but the rumor was that most of the holdouts were looking to get last year’s slot. That’s a difference of what, less than $100k? If you’re planning on spending $1.1M anyway, then a marginal increase of less than 10% shouldn’t be enough to kill the deal.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don't know how much he's asking for over our offer.
I was replying to “Why go overslot on anyone”.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What I'm saying is....
If we through that kind of money to one player, then we can spend close to that amount one two or more players.
I didn't say I wasn't flawless, but I damn sho' don't tarnish!
Draft budgets aren't the same every year
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
admittedly, i haven't looked through past drafts to see how we've fared at signing top picks.
but failing to lock up the best guys = FAIL. this team ABSOLUTELY MUST build through the draft. you have to sign these guys.
We've always signed our first rounders.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish we hadn't signed a lot of our 1st rounders
A blind squirrel could have probably drafted better than the DRays
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
Okay maybe not "a lot"
But it isn’t like this organization has been great at drafting in the 1st round. The AF era is obviously far better, but overall we’ve been pretty poor.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
AF knows what he is doing
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Aug 17, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
Eric Hinske should be our draft contract negotiator.
So long, Sweet Lime!
by PlayOnWords on Aug 17, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Remember when the phillies did the same thing with Gavin Floyd?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
I don't
but I’m old and my memory sucks. I remember he held out for a long time, but I don’t remember the Phillies putting out a press release.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That was Boras posturing
He had Floyd on campus and told the Phillies he was about to go to class, and the Phillies caved.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 17, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Phillies said talks broke off
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Here is my take:
1. Washington’s demand was far higher than what we anticipated. We reached for Washington because we anticipated him being a very easy sign. We knew we wanted to go overslot on later picks so we figured we’d go with an easy sign at the top. Washington does not deserve overslot. Heck he does not deserve slot. His talent isn’t a first round pick. I commend the Rays for not giving in
2. The Rays pretty much knew they couldn’t sign our 2nd round pick. They drafted LeVon to give them the flexibiliy to sign Kenny overslot, but that didn’t happen.
In the end I would have rather have had them draft Kenny in the 1st and LeVon in the 2nd (I wouldn’t have been shocked if he was still there). I like Diekroger much more.
Last thing comp picks are nowhere near as valuable as the actual pick. Nowhere close. The time value is obviously huge. Plus it causes the team to draft a guy that they can definitely sign the next year. However it is a good fallback in case a player like LeVon has unrealistic demands given his talent level.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
I agree with point number 1
I think when he was signed it was to help save money later in the draft for over-slot by grabbing a guy who probably didn’t deserve more than slot. But I don’t think they were targeting any specific player in the later rounds. No team has good enough intel or predictions to know who will fall to them and who won’t. When over a thousand player have to be scouted and drafted by teams, it’s hard to say definitely where one ranks over the other. They may have wanted to draft a guy who would fall because of sign-ability concerns and hope to sign them cheaper by drafting them later, but I doubt they had one or two specific people in mind.
The nature of the draft is that tons of guys fall due to signability
Perhaps the Rays weren’t targeting a specific player, but they knew a pool of players would fall. I’m sure AF made a calculated decision that the last 1st round area wasn’t very strong in this draft so he wanted to divert his resources towards overslotting the guys that fell due to signability.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
Why is the time value "obviously huge"?
I’ve seen this repeated many a time, and have yet to see a single shred of evidence supporting it.
Lack of leverage for comp picks is a good argument. “Time value of talent” isn’t.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Welp.
kingclipIt’s funny, not signing 1-2 is embarrassing, but the #Rays draft still isn’t THAT bad.
/Goldstein
What kind of name is kingclit for a professional?
Good one Kevin.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Will Ferrell is the best part of it.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously you don't watch Eastbound & Down
Or haven’t seen Step Brothers or Talladega Nights.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Talladega Nights was not funny
and Eastbound and Down was his best thing in a while. Didn’t think Step Brothers was great either. He is good in small roles now (like Eastbound and Down) but I don’t think his lead roles are any good anymore
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
To each there own.
I don’t think he’s great, but he’s good for a few laughs.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree a few laughs
but some people say he is the best around which he is not
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
No way, though it's hard to say who is
Comedy actors get burnt out far too quickly. I’m a big fan of Nick Swardson I wish he would get bigger roles.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He is good. I also enjoy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rudd
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
Yeah Rudd has his own style that's never offensive
Plus he was in Clueless
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have to disagree.
Talladega Nights was definately funny. I have not seen Stepbrothers yet so I can’t commet on that one.
Either way LeVon was drafted way too high IMO
No way to know if this was a strategic move on the Rays part or just poor scouting.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
BA had LeVon right around that area.
So I’m not sure what you’re basing this on.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 17, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Partially on who else was available, other peoples commentary, and his skill set
I’m just not fond of his skill set. Little bat, no arm, etc. Just not what I like. I like more complete players. I like high performing college players especially. Hence why I wanted Posey over Beckham.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
I too like good college players
Beckham v. Posey will rage for a few more years, but when I saw us get Levon when there were so many good, proven bats out there, I was not happy.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Top of the draft and in the mid rounds I'm okay drafting toolsy high school guys
At the top they are more of a sure thing and I don’t mind getting the potential later in the draft (especially overslot). However I really don’t understand taking a high school guy like LeVon over much more sure things that have performed at a high level. Guys like LeVon should be our 3rd, 4th, 5th round pick. If we are drafting anything other than the top 5 in the 1st we should be taking highly productive college kids.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
By mid rounds I mean like 3rd-10th
Anything passed that doesn’t really matter too much to me. Might as well watch NCIS reruns and draw names out of a hat.
Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks
I would think the strategic move idea is logical
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 17, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

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