B.J. Upton & Grady Sizemore Continue on the SimilarPath
After the 2007 season you would've been hard press to find two more desired players than B.J. Upton and Grady Sizemore. Upton, then 22/23, hit .300/.386/.508 with 24 home runs and 22 steals in129 games. Defensively, after playing the first half of the season at second base, he settled into a permanent home in centerfield and posted an above average 2.0 UZR in 78 games.
Meanwhile in Cleveland, Grady's ladies were just in heaven as the 25 year old Grady Sizemore was wrapping up his third full season. Sizemore put up excellent numbers to the tune of .277/.390/.462 and also belted 24 home runs like Upton. The best was yet to come as Sizemore would go 30-30 in 2008, while Upton regressed a bit thanks to a season long battle with a torn shoulder labrum.
Despite the two seemingly being destine for a decade plus of dominance after 2007, they are both having pretty bad seasons just two years later.
Upton's struggles have been well documented here. He's hitting just .236/.313/.355 the season. He suffered a demotion in the lineup, and only shows flashes of his 2007 self. Back in Cleveland, Sizemore was also temporarily removed from his lead off perch, but since has returned. Even after regaining his spot in the order, Grady is hitting just .242/.335/.444 on the year. Obviously, Sizemore's offensive drop off in power isn't any where near Upton's, but his game has taken a hit in other areas.
After swiping 38 bags in '08, Sizemore has just 11 steals in 19 chances this year. When Upton has gotten on base he still shows the ability to steal and is headed for a second straight 40 steal season. Defensively, Sizemore was regarded as one of the better center fielders in the game. In 2006, his UZR was 14.5 and he was awarded a gold glove in 2007 and 2008. This year Sizemore has actually hurt his team defensively and has a UZR of -0.4. Despite the better offensive numbers from Sizemore, Upton actually has a higher WAR than Sizemore (2.1 to 1.7) on the strength of his fantastic 11.8 UZR.
The good news is both players are still tremendously talented and still young enough to rebound. I'm not going to preach regression in either case, but it's hard to believe that what we are seeing is what we're going to get from two players who have so much to offer. While we struggle to watch Upton everyday, we must remember that he isn't even 25 years old yet. Hopefully nights like last night become more of the norm for him as we head down the stretch because we're going to need all the help we can get.
*All numbers are from before Tuesday night's games
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I'm getting in this before Sternfan blows his load on how Sizemore is the greatest player ever
BJ stil has time to make it look like his offensive numbers don’t completely suck this year but even if they do, he is still only 25 and great defensively. I don’t even think Ryan Howard had his ML debut till he was 26.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 19, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
His swing looked much better last night. That was obvious by the results, but on the replays, his mechanics looked much more fluid and like BJ of old.
So long, Sweet Lime!
He's looked a lot better on this homestand so far
Doesn’t seem to be going out of the zone as much and looks like he’s just more comfortable. Of course these are just observations, but hopefully they turn into results.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am certainly roting for him, but one game which included a slow INF hit is not quite the proof i need
They were both lazy.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You're not allowed to mock someone's reading comprehension when you can't put together a coherent sentence.
No one here is saying BJ’s back for good. The entire article was simply pointing out that it look like he’s starting to turn it around. You made fun of the fact that he had an infield hit, while ignoring the fact that he hit a home run and a triple, which are pretty strong signs his shoulder is healthy and his plate discipline is coming back.
He also said hopefully it will become more the norm, not a declaration
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I was mostly exited to see both the triple and homer were opposite field
he seems to be swinging the best when he hits it to right center. Hopefully the cheers last night will help him a little bit.
OT: Levon was offered $1.1 million and didn't take it
Scott Boras was disappointed nothing could get done.
C’mon…..this is a joke. I doubt Boras cared that much
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
Yes let's end it since they both play DH
And do not play an important defensive position.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Since i'd call it a wash on defense, and that's being kind to BJ(Sizemore hasn't misplayed a ball in years)
then yes it reverts back to offensive stats
I’ll conced the arm to BJ
Yea call it a wash, don't even look at the fact that Sizemore is in a 3 year uzr decline
Oh I forgot that doesn’t help your case.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At anypoint did Tommy make it seem like this was a BJ vs Sizemore article?
It’s pretty obvious he’s just pointing out a similar trend in development between two young centerfielders who broke out at the same time.
Also, BJ owns Sizemore defensively this year.
No he doesn't
Sizemore NEVER blows that ball v CHW and never gets beat over his head, yet still comes in well on balls
comes in well on balls?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And Upton get to balls that Sizemore
would NEVER get close to, what’s your point? Again, this is not a BJ vs. Grady piece which you obviously missed.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How can we ignore the fielding difference?
It’s not a UZR of 11 to 11.4 it’s a HUGE difference.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
Also it's not a debate
Look at the graphs notice the lines going in the same direction? It’s an observation.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tommy, no disrespect but i don't think those two belong in the same stadium, much less thread
Ask 30 MLB GM’s who he’d rather have
BJ Upton duh
Younger, cheaper and plays better defense.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like to compare these 2 plus Grander
Here is a look using wOBA

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
Please Sandy
B.J. Upton obviously doesn’t belong in the same country
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Here's by age

I would rate them equal across the board on defense. They are all monsters. Give the slight edge to Sizemore for consistently higher production, but Beej is younger and cheaper.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Also, join the movement. Read the sig.
Sign lady must die.
Nobody Talk to Sternfan1 - Support the Site-Wide Silent Treatment.
by EminenceFront on Aug 19, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Its useless
And nowhere do I say Upton>Sizemore in the article. Just noticed the same slope, but again it doesn’t make his point so it doesn’t matter.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I hate the Indians, but i'd take Sizemore as one of the top 3-5 players if i were starting a team in the AL
You also said you'd take Carl Pavano over James Shields
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At which point we would get stuff back
“If it doesn’t help my cause, I completely ignore it.”
-Sternfan1
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I said he had a lower FIP
and at this point, i’d flip a coin
Shields has been dooooooooooo good this year
shields has been do good?
I love how you use FIP to prove one point, but dismiss UZR when it doesn’t prove your point. But we are cherry pickers.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Looking for my point?
I’ll concede Sizemore has slipped a bit since the ’07 season, but BJ has fallen down a noubtain
Only GIS that came up

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that Strongville's famous Noubtain?
Wow, Its even greater than I ever imagined
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And by golly it put them on the map
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez glass
Noubtain is where young 25 year old defensive wizards who play centerfield go to die
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
no that was me and rglass mainly argueing whether or not Hellickson is a top prospect.
although I called this at the top about Stern.
He blows a load anytime he is within 50 miles of Sizemore.
Price/Hellboy could be the new Kaz/Shields debate
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
did you even read the thread?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I read top to bottom
left to right
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Look I like Shields and I admit he's having
a somewhat down year, but Kazmir has fallen down the noubtain, don’t you think?
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah, haven't read it yet.
Been on the run all morning.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 19, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I skipped it.....
too much to read for just waking up
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I bet you had time for a piece of cake though
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
......I would guess you are talking about yourself?
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
BTW if it says Hostess or JJ's Fruit pies on the wrapper it counts as cake
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Me either, but I don't usually eat until around 5
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
cause you just woke up
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 19, 2009 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
basically me using stats to show he (hellickson) isn't that much worse than Hanson was in the minors
and he is saying that He is even one of our best prospects using BA prospect list
Goldstein just admitted he's wrong about Hellickson.
A few days ago.
BA is great, but not too many pitchers can get 20 whiffs in Triple-A and not have good stuff.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 19, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yea it was a bit of an exageration
it was more of just a difference in opinion. Didn’t mean to short side u rglass.
Reminds me of the aural power of 80's rock legends INXS
INXL rules
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 19, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

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