The Gabe Kapler & Gabe Gross Platoon Continues To Produce
With all the talk about the future of Carl Crawford and the Rays outfield, I realized how often we forget the platoon of Gabe Gross and Gabe Kapler. While B.J. Upton, Carl Crawford, Desmond Jennings and Matt Joyce are all more talented and grab more headlines, the Gabes continue to quietly put up solid production in the right field corner. While both have their individual flaws, together they have combined to be an above average right fielder both offensively and defensively. Of course that was the plan all along, but seldom do plans work out this well.
As the left handed batter facing right handed pitchers, Gabe Gross continues to get the lion's share of the at-bats. A .246/.347/.413 career hitter, Gross has put up typical numbers in 2009. His overall slash line reads .258/.370/.409 which is slightly above his norm. The increase in OBP is a welcomed sight thanks to an increase in BB% of nearly two percent over his career .
Gross's main job is to hit righties and he's faired pretty well at that. Hitting .257/.360/.388 against righties this year, Gross remains good at being average. In an extreme small sample size, Gross is hitting .263/.462/.632 against left handers, but in just 26 plate appearances. The thing that jumped out to me about Gross's splits against lefties was seven drawn walks in just 24 plate appearances vs. five strikeouts. While it's tempting to see how those numbers would hold up over a larger sample size, the play of the other Gabe makes it an unnecessary practice.
Gabe Kapler got off to a bad start. Over the first two months of the season he hit .178/.274/.274 in 84 plate appearances. However, he got "toasty" as Joe Maddon would say once the calendar hit June. Since June 1st, Kapler is hitting .293/.362/.549 with 12 extra base hits in 94 plate appearances.
Unfortunately, injuries in early part of the season force Maddon to use him against right handed pitching and that has really taken a toll on his overall numbers. He is hitting just .109/.163/.109 against righties in 49 plate appearances. Luckily for us, things have balanced out and Kapler is almost exclusively facing lefties now. If you haven't noticed, Kapler absolutely crushes left handed pitching. On the season he's hitting .294/.380/.550 against southpaws with 19 extra base hits in 129 plate appearances.
The beauty of the Gabe of the day platoon is it isn't just an offensive pairing. Both Kapler and Gross have been above average fielders. Kapler has earned himself a 7.0 UZR in right field while Gross has been even better in a larger sample size. After posting an 11.8 UZR in 121 games last season, Gross has a UZR of 8.5 this year.
As Rays fans we've been trained to look for value, value, value. Well Value is exactly what we're getting with the Gabe of the Day platoon. Signed for a combined $2,225,0018 million dollars, the Gabes have put up a combined WAR of 2.6. or nearly $12 million dollars worth of production.
Even though the pairing has worked so well this year, there is a good chance the two won't be together after this season. While the names may change in seasons to come, platoons are something Rays fans should get accustomed to seeing. It may not be a sexy option, but a good economical one.To get back to my original point at the top, the Rays almost certainly will never be able to replace Carl Crawford's production with one player. However, using the correct combination might get you close for a fraction of the cost.
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137 comments
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Comments
I'm not too excited about a 748 OPS v RHP
I’m really hoping Joyce can elevate his game next year and nail down the bulk of the ABs there
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 7:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Remember the expectation was RF was going to be our weak spot
For a “weak spot” thats damn good
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Swisher and his 244/354/488 with 14 HR
as a LH v RHP
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 7:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I rather have Albert Pujols
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 24, 2009 7:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He can walk on water. Playing RF should be easy
Don’t have the UZR numbers, but pretty sure Gross’s defense > than Swisher and his OBP is nearly 20 pts higher at less salary. Now Swish is a switch hitter, but I’d be interested to see if his home park has helped.
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 24, 2009 7:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Gross has nearly a 19 UZR/150 in right field
yep, he’s better (although I don’t think swisher is a slouch)
by Navi's_Navy on Aug 24, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays have a team 780 OPS in RF, which ranks 10th in the AL
and remember this includes Zobrist with his 280/384/476 and 3 HR there in 100 PAs
So i guess i’m disagreeing with your statement that the “Gabes” are doing fine
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 8:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you disagree? get out of here.
And again you ignore defense
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by Tommy Rancel on Aug 24, 2009 8:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
^Is that Steve Duemig?^
Seriously…
by RivalsTees on Aug 24, 2009 9:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Players have to catch the ball too sometimes.
by Erik Hahmann on Aug 24, 2009 8:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Os Gabe Gross a good defender? YES
Is BJ Upton a good defender? YES
But at some point they need to mash
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon you know thats not valid
BJ is OPSing .678. Thats eqaully as fair as comparing Gross’s .779 to Johnny Damon’s .882 as an equal comparison
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the point is you can't always point to defense and say he's ok
Michael Young is a good example. I’d take his offense seven days a week and bet at the end of the day, he wins you more with his bat than he loses with his glove
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, well, Michael Young cost his team alot more runs with his glove than he was making up for with his bat until this year.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see that breakdown
if true, i’ll acknowledge
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Young has been EXACTLY league average (or within ~-.5) 4 out of 7 full seasons in MLB.
Some game winner.
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by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in WAR
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by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gold glover
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His UZR/150 is like a nightmare come true.
Seen in action yesterday.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-25.6 UZR in 2006.
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilarious.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That worked so well for the Yankees from 2001-200???
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if the Rays had the NYY success from '01 till present you'd be unhappy?
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then what the fuck are you bitching about?
We went to the World Series last year. We’re going to win 90 games this year. We’re going to likely win 90+ games next year.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB should be like NHL and NBA where 1/2 the league makes the playoff's
than everyone can be happy.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we were more like the White Sox and tying up $23,550,000 in Podsednik, Rios, Quentin, and Dye
and getting $8,300,000 in value. The Rays OTOH pay $10,940,018 for $42,000,000 in production for Craw, Beej, Gabes. That stinks.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandy, youy're taking this in an entirely different direction, than was intended
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you expect the Rays to go out and acquire guys like Nick Swisher, then go root for another team.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They signed Pat Burrell, Troy Percival and Dan Wheeler
and they were in on Lee and Martinez
Swisher’s contract is not a bank breaker
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’d love to hear you bitch if we did get Swisher. ZOMG HE STRUCK OUT LOOKING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If i was overly bothered by guys striking out, i'd certainly turn to another team than the Rays to root for
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
Maybe it’s my old school upbringining, but i can’t believe how many times we strike out
Years ago, you might have one guy on a team who whiffed 20-25% of the time, but this Rays team could supply A/C in a stadium w/o it
by Raymondo on Jul 26, 2009 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
COPY AND PASTE'D
or should we call this being FREEZORILLA’D?
I’m open for suggestions
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by Buc Wild on Aug 24, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have preferred to have Swisher over Burrell, but you do realize the Yankees TRADED for Swisher, right?
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Wison Beamit is a HOF candidate
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A crappy minor league pitcher.
They also took on his salary. He also gets the benefit of that park.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we should have signed Johnny Damon too
so we could have his 20+ HR’s
because clearly he would have the same numbers with the Rays that he has with the Yankees.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swish only has 3ish of his 21ish HRs in Yankee Stadium
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rglass, you really need to research your facts more
November 13, 2008: Traded by the Chicago White Sox with Kanekoa Texeira (minors) to the New York Yankees for Jeff Marquez (minors), Jhonny Nunez (minors) and Wilson Betemit.
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betemit was not who the trade was for.
He was a throw-in.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I?
You’re saying that 2 guys playing for practically nothing and putting up above-average numbers are not fine. Your direction was just to argue with the premise, offering nothing of substance. It is you, sir, that should stay on topic.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You failed to read my posts if you're saying i failed to put up a defense
I said Gross is a 748 OPS v RHP—that is shit
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is retarded.
But what should I expect.
WE MUST HAVE A .900 OPS AT EVERY POSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His overall ops is almost dead even with lg average.
Gross is oh so average and that is good.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
His offense is average, he's defense is fantastic.
He’s a good player and part of a very good platoon.
But no, unless everyone on the team has a 950 OPS, they’re useless.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read it
It is a cherry picked stat to corroborate your point. Melky Cabrera has a .748 OPS overall and starts every day for the highest payroll club in the leagues. Would you rather have Jack Cust because his .770 OPS is a larger number? Forgetting that he is like a tank with a busted track out there? Use a better stat if you’re going to cherry pick. Like wOBA. Gross has a wOBA of .347, the same as Cody Ross and better than Game Boy, Cust, Ludwick, Hermida, Ordonez, Cabrera, Rios, Ryan Church, Josh Hamilton, and Jay Bruce. wOBA only measures offense so add the plus defense that you seem to acknowledge and voila a RFer hitting better than Hambone and fielding as in the 90th percentile at his position.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heres a
LINK in case you think I pulled this out of my ass. Next time come harder than looking up one stat.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no need for quotation marks.
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by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't sure where to reply since it is spread out but
Sternfan point has some validity. A team with 8 defense only guys would probably not win many games. That being said it wouldn’t make those 8 players bad players just poor team management. BJ + The Gabe platoon while not great are still pretty good and don’t hurt the overall team because we have guys like Zo, Longoria, Bartlett, and ugh Pena (HR) that contribute offensively. This is where team balance comes in you don’t want to have an all-defensive team or a team with no defense and I think we have a pretty good balance, especially consdering payroll. We aren’t the Yankees, if we make 1 or 2 mistakes in FA or a guy doesn’t live up to potential (PB) it is magnified because we can’t buy are way out of it.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By Raymondo's verdit, the Gabes platoon isn't doing good enough because it has a 780 OPS.
A 780 OPS is not a “defense only platoon”. It’s an above average offensive platoon with great defense. The only guy we have on the team right now who’s pretty much defense only is BJ.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget the 780 OPS incudes Zobrist and his 100 PAs in RF and his 846 OPS out there
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a .750 OPS then
with whats on pace for about 20 runs in the fielder
20 RUNS! For fucks sake thats like having a 10 run centerfielder
You must just be stupid
by Navi's_Navy on Aug 24, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pena's .367 wOBA is only .004 below Longo and ahead of Lowell, Dye, Pedroia, LaRoche, Butler, Cano, Rolen, Figgins
Drew, Markakis, et al.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The AL Champs last year had an OPS of .762, this year the Rays are .799
The AL Champs RF had a OPS of .766
This year the Rays RF has an OPS of .819
This team has a better offense than last year, RF as well
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how a day after our 1-4 Ks like crazy, Raymondo decides to hate on Gross' offense.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, that explains everything then.
Instead of opening your mind to reason, you shut it off to validate some gut reaction you had a year ago. Good work by you.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish RJ would publish those email chains.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys really don't want a debate--you simply want to wave pom poms and wear pleated skirts
Have fun with that
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Last year Swisher OPSed .743.
Why would you want that?
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude seriously
We are not the Yankees or Sox, we don’t get to play like this is a video game. Is the Gabe platoon sexy on face value, no. Will it be sexy when we trade our top 2 offensive players from 09 this off-season (CC, Barty), no. But shit dude it is what this franchise has to do to stay successfull in the long run because of payroll limitations. There are reasons why teams like the Pirates, Reds, Royals, Rays, Marlins, etc… haven’t maintained consistant success in the past because they can’t afford to pay FA’s to cover up FO mistakes or players underperforming. They also can’t afford to keep players once they become superstars. The fact that we wen’t to the WS last year, are on pace for 90 wins this year and have the foundation with young ML players and a good farm system to be an above .500 team for the forseable future is a great testiment to the job AF and Co. are doing. If you don’t like the way it is than stop fucking cheering for the Rays and go pull for the Mets, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox or any other team that can buy buy buy. If not than stop coming on here and complaining about us not making moves that are unrealistic given our financial situation.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD 88 WINS IN THE TOUGHEST DIVISON IN BASEBALL
THE WORLD IS ENDING
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget we also get the O's like 8 more times
so forgive me for my optimism that we can win a couple extra games.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think playing them 8 more times is a great thing.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
yes it was at home, but didn’t we just sweep the new look O’s?
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not like we blew them away.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we actually lost the third game.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There it is, the Raymondo Surrender
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is this Raymondo you speak of?
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by Buc Wild on Aug 24, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you new?
He used to troll these here parts, before recently riding off in the sunset back to his native town of STRONGSVILLE. Often times, he would engage in very long debates while keeping each reply to a single line as to ignore the orginal argument and to go in circles. Typically these debates would end in direct name calling while avoiding any reasoning.
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you wearing your PJ's?
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm behind on the wash
so its the Balfour top, with the Zorilla underoo bottom, naturally I’m nestled into my MIchel wubbie
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Stat man
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by Buc Wild on Aug 24, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is for rglass, who argued that Swisher gets the benefit
of Yankee Stadium
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=swishni01&year=2009&t=b
hmmmm
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is for Raymondo
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
U GAY
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon Parties are so 2005, dude.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hover over the link next time
When I think of Raymondo/Sternfan1 I think of Lemon Parties, sorry.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did. I'm not clicking on that at work.
I have the image saved as my cellie wallpaper anywayz.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lulz
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess when you lose--you attack--well done
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i guess you missed his reasoned argumnet above that you casually ignored.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen issues blown out of wack as much as in here
I started this off by saying Gross’ 748 OPS v RHP is not good and was hoping Joyce could do better in ’10
From that point WWIII breaks out
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that it changes much
but I wouldn’t be suprised if Joyce is in LF and the Gabe’s are still in RF next season.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I'd rather have Swisher and his 244/354/488 with 14 HR as a LH v RHP"
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"So i guess i’m disagreeing with your statement that the "Gabes" are doing fine"
That’s why WW2 broke out, and why Sandy carved a swastika into your forehead.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Define 'fine'
and i would rather have had Swisher, you wouldn’t?
I think he makes about $5.5 mil this year
Add up all the shit salaries we’re paying 40 yo relievers
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if we had gone with Thayer, Abreu, Bateman type guys in our pen
and they sucked you’d be saying, we shoud have signed a veteran reliever to help the pen or some sort. You take every move that doesn’t work out and bring it out in every arguement. Yet we rarely here about moves like, JP to the pen, the Balfour trade, the Garza/Barty deal, the Longoria contract, drafting guys like BJ, CC, Longo, Shields, etc……….
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, I'd love to have Swish.
But the fact is, Gabe Gross and Gabe Kapler as a whole are more productive than Nick Swisher, and they’re 3.5 million cheaper.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Swisher stats i posted home and away
thank he still gets the “benefit of that park”?
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you just replied in the wrong spot but
he was not talking about the park there. He was reffering to the platoon being = in production to Swisher at a cheaper price.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does still get the benefit of the ballpark.
Whether he has taken advantage of it or not he still gets the benefit of half his games in a launching pad. I know you don’t understand statistics, so I’ll refrain fromn explaining it further. Due to random variation, luck, and inherant player attributes sometimes players play better on the road or at home regardless of the park. If you look at Ryan Howard’s numbers, I believe his home/road splits are similar, but noone would argue he doesn’t get the benefit of his home park.
Either way, the Gabes have provided far more SURPLUS value than Swisher has this year. That you can not argue, and that is the most important thing.
What if we had traded for Swisher’s 2008 season? Easy to cherry pick and be the contrarion after the fact.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I FULLY understand a 200+ OPS difference between home and away
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No you don't.
What if he played his home games in the Trop? Might his home OPS be .408? Who knows? His performance still gets discounted because of the park he plays in. THAT is what you don’t seem to get.
Not to mention you completely ignore the most important point:
Either way, the Gabes have provided far more SURPLUS value than Swisher has this year. That you can not argue, and that is the most important thing.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, you don't seem to get it.
Gabe Gross: 1.7 WAR
Gabe Kapler: 0.8 WAR
Together: 2.5
Nick Swisher: 2.5 WAR
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I could write this in purple crayon, I would. If that would help.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would just argue that the crayon is yellow
and even though everyone else would say it is purple, he would still be right.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love when you GIS this there is literally an entire page of different options

Purpguy has contributed more to the internets than Nick Swisher has contributed to the Yankees.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't play the victim
you’re getting exactly what you wanted.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I lose
See post above that shows that Gross has hit better than media darlings Josh Hamilton and Jay Bruce.
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By quite a large margin
I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Media and stripper darling
Josh Hamilton.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are no winners and losers
just Sternfan and the rest of us cheerleaders.
obviously if one man thinks one way and everyone else the other way, the one many is clearly right.
by Dbullsfan on Aug 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the best ever example.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better.
Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.
by PlayOnWords on Aug 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what is the argument?
IS Swisher better than Gross?
Can we do better than Gross? maybe Joyce?
Those are my points, i’m not sure what the rest of you are arguing
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be arguing
that the Gabes aren’t a good solution in RF. You seem to say that Swisher is a far better solution. The rest of us are saying the Gabes have been as good but cheaper.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said based on the numbers i gave
our RF solution ranks 10th in OPS according to ESPN and it includes Zobrist and his 100 PAs out there
by sternfan1 on Aug 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is cherry picking and not looking at it holistically.
OPS is not the end all-be all of player performance.
Gabe Gross is an above average hitter with plus defense. Gabe Kapler is similar. Together, they are just as valuable as Nick Swisher.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point 1 was completely addressed.
Joyce is likely going to be Super Gross, so I’m not sure what there is to argue.
by Suttree on Aug 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is going to be better offensively
I’d be incredibly surprised if he puts up this kind of defense
by Navi's_Navy on Aug 24, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its just really odd that you are focusing on improving RF as a pressing need
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Aug 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We evaluate players based on their offensive and defensive contributions.
If you’re a +10 defender and 0 offender, then you’re a +10 player.
If you’re a -10 defender and 20 offender, then you’re a +10 player.
Even if you don’t full trust in UZR, you have to admit Gross is pretty damn terrific in right field.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 24, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One issue.
Diminishing marginal returns for defense sets in earlied than offense. We have come nowhere near that point, though, I’d say.
by rglass44 on Aug 24, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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