DRaysBay: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

Day and Night: Do the Rays Have a Partying Problem?

Gabe Gross is a big fan of Andrew W.K.'s poetry.

More photos » by Chris O'Meara - AP

Gabe Gross is a big fan of Andrew W.K.'s poetry.

Let's talk about the Rays and day games.

There seems to be two view points on the topic depending on who you talk to. One group insists the Rays struggle because their players are young and - apparently - like to take in the night life more than other teams' youth. The other labels the struggles as random fluctuation, after all, check out the American League average which shows players perform slightly worse in days than night and we're talking about 30% of the team's total plate appearances.

The first group has a logical point. You would suspect young players as the least likely to have self restraint over their liquor or smoke intake, but is it true? The Rays have the third youngest group of batters in the A.L., older than only Minnesota and Cleveland. Kansas City and Texas aren't too far behind the Rays either. Check the ranks (by OPS) in day and night games for these five teams:

Team/Day Rank/Night Rank

CLE/4/9

MIN/10/4

TB/9/2

KC/14/11

TEX/6/6

So, one moves down, three teams move up, and one doesn't move at all. How about for the five oldest group of hitters?

NYA/1/1

BOS/2/5

TOR/5/10

SEA/11/13

CHA/8/8

Two stay the same and three move down.

If you were basing decisions on player age and ability to play in day/night games off this sample - and you shouldn't - then you would prefer young players because 70% of their plate appearances come at night. The flawed assumption is that the players who struggle in day games are the youngsters. Here are the team numbers from the last two seasons:

 

09 Day BA OBP SGL K% BB%
Rays 0.255 0.331 0.417 24.3 9.3
AL Avg 0.264 0.335 0.426 20 9
09 Night BA OBP SLG  K% BB%
Rays 0.272 0.356 0.469 22.2 11.1
AL Avg 0.268 0.336 0.433 19.4 8.7
08 Day BA OBP SGL K% BB%
Rays 0.253 0.336 0.417 23.3 10
AL Avg 0.265 0.335 0.418 19.9 8.8
08 Night BA OBP SLG  K% BB%
Rays 0.263 0.342 0.425 21.6 9.9
AL Avg 0.269 0.336 0.421 18.6 8.5

 

You would expect Evan Longoria and B.J. Upton to struggle the most, right? After all, they're the young studs in town. The guys who have the gold diggers flock them and envious males buying them rounds deep into the night. Well, not quite, let's look at the bottom five of the day splits from this year:

Star-divide

Gabe Gross (68 PA) .522 OPS

Dioner Navarro (96 PA) .534 OPS

Michel Hernandez (43 PA) .593 OPS

Gabe Kapler (82 PA) .594 OPS

Pat Burrell (100 PA) .602 OPS

Not quite the young guys you were expecting right? I mean, does anyone see Gabe Gross doing anything unholy? B.J. Upton is next at .715, then Carlos Pena at .724. How about last year?

Gabe Gross (92 PA) .551 OPS

Carl Crawford (129 PA) .584 OPS

Jason Bartlett (130 PA) .711 OPS

Evan Longoria (144 PA) .736 OPS

Willy Aybar (124 PA) .738 OPS

And the top five performers?

Rocco Baldelli (44 PA) 1.116 OPS

Cliff Floyd (64 PA) .928 OPS

Jonny Gomes (59 PA) .926 OPS

Carlos Pena (184 PA) .872 OPS

B.J. Upton (181 PA) .832 OPS

So, we have the guy with the muscle disorder, two guys infamous for clubbing, the Rays leader in : )% and the notorious youth.

Over 300 day plate appearances Evan Longoria has a .757 OPS. Does that mean he's smoking too much weed, or drinking too much beer? No. It could simply be a deviation, much like his .793 OPS in 361 plate appearances during innings 1-3. I believe it was Mitchel G. Lichtman who wrote that baseball fans feel the need to explain every slight variance - I'm guilty of this myself - and I think that might be what comes into play here. Offenses go through peaks and valleys; this case just happens to involve a day/night split instead of June/July.

Do some players drink too much? Probably. Does it show up in the numbers this easily? Almost certainly not. That or, you know, Gross, Crawford, and Bartlett should work on becoming better role models for the youth. Oh, and how dare Gross and Ben Zobrist have a baby, do they know how much rest they'll lose because of it?

1 recs  |  Comment 22 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Question for RJ?

do you expect anyone from Durham to get called up before the IL playoffs? The last few years they haven’t raided us but wasn’t sure this year. Thanks

by bullsrayz on Aug 26, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm so disappointed in Gabe G.

This is clearly damning evidence Gross has been corrupted by the autograph hating, lazier element(s) on this team.

I just hope he comes clean before the bar photos leak.

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Aug 26, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what Josh Hamilton's day/night splits are...

Sign lady must die.
Be the first on your block to own DRB Gear.

by EminenceFront on Aug 26, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully he remembers to clean the whip cream off his chest

and take the shot glass out of his zipper before getting to the clubhouse.

by BJ the Bossman on Aug 26, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doing lines off your cup is a helluva drug.

Sign lady must die.
Be the first on your block to own DRB Gear.

by EminenceFront on Aug 26, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need Gomes back

he clearly told everyone how to play while hungover/wasted

by BJ the Bossman on Aug 26, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or at least how to sit on the bench and be a cheerleader

I miss Wrestling Night

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 26, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That shit was hilarious

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Aug 26, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With him gone we have lost the wrestling community at our games

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 26, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To bad no one ever taught him how to hit a curve ball.

Lincecum is the greatest ball player we will ever see play, besides barry bonds, don't even try and argue it.

by putupyourDUKES on Aug 26, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ANDERSON!!!!~!~!

Lead singer, songwriter, and caterer for the band Suicide Phoenix. We play sitar-based anthems on real estate law. Available for weddings, birthdays (13+, please), and LAN parties.

by PlayOnWords on Aug 26, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Douchebag Dictator

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Aug 26, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Day/Night

games coming off of like different games, like easy game, long game, high leverage & stressful, etc-Any info maybe with that? I noticed at least post ASB that the harder the game before the day game, worse it was the next day generally

by Transplanted on Aug 26, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The main problem with this is the huge assumption that players party prior to day games and not for night games

Or at least they are 100% for the night games.

Of course that isn’t always true. So looking at day/night splits doesn’t really give a good picture.

Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks

by matthan on Aug 26, 2009 10:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

However no matter how you slice it partying (see bottom of post) is bad for performance

Other teams may do it too. We may do it a lot or a little compared to other teams. But does that matter? We shouldn’t be doing it at all. We want to be performing at peak levels. If other teams want to play worse than they could then so be it. Thanks for the gift. So comparing to other teams doesn’t really matter. We WANT the Red Sox and Rangers to get totally drunk every night. That benefits us. If they do that then that doesn’t mean it is okay for our guys to do it too. We shouldnt lower our performance. And yes partying makes a player play worse at worst and the same at best. That should be pretty obvious.

I’m defining partying for this as going out the night prior to a game where the player is extremely tired, hung over, dehyrdrated, etc for the game the next day. I have no problem if a player can go out one night and play at 100% the next day. If they cannot play at 100% then they should not go out.

Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks

by matthan on Aug 26, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Basically I'm just saying it is impossible to hunt for the consequences of partying within the numbers

Because we have no idea when they party. There are entirely too many variables and we don’t know half of them.

This is just a matter of using common sense. There is just no way a player can perform at their peak every single game while being hung over. All we ask as fans is for the players to give their best. Playing in a condition that causes their performance to go down is something that should piss all fans off.

Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks

by matthan on Aug 26, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blah blah blah

I bet your employer expects your best out of you too, but have you ever stayed out late on a worknight… Partying? Spending some quality time with a lady (or whatever you prefer)? Calculating p-values for a post on DRaysBay?

162 games is a lot, I’m sure most players are out of it for a few, unless it’s a chronic problem, who cares? We all make decisions like this all the time, get off your high horse.

by ChiBurbRaysFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right because employers are always thrilled when their employees are too fucked up to perform

Perhaps you should get a job before you talk? I’m sure you can function pretty fine walking to the unemployment line to get your cash for your next handle. Tough gig.

Can David Ortiz please send Dioner Navarro some of his PED's? K? Thanks

by matthan on Aug 26, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I played in college

a teammate of mine swore he was a better baseball player when he was drunk/hungover than when he was sober. He did NOTHING to disprove this statement.

Some guys loosen up when they still have alcohol coursing through their veins at noon the next day.

by gorilla_baller on Aug 26, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was he the same guy who

swore he was a better driver after a few drinks because he became more careful and alert?

by bobr on Aug 27, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005. DRaysBay is home to "progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."
Start posting about the Rays »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Desert Dogs to play in the AFL championship @ 2:30 EST.
Desmond Jennings Makes the Tops AA-All-Stars
ABC Coalition to Vote on Draft Report Today.
Fan page for Dick Bosman, Rays minor league pitching coordinator
Upton's Struggles vs Lefties
Evan Longoria wins the Silver Slugger Award
09 Minor Leaguers File for Free Agency
Longoria on the MLB 2k10 cover?
Thank you Tim Marchman.
Longo's Slugcon by Location

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


VPs of Baseball Operations

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Zorilla_small FreeZorilla

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Ticket Account Executive

Rays_small Steve Slowinski