Rays Officially Trade Scott Kazmir to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for Matthew Sweeney, Alexander Torres, and a PTBNL
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
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Rays presser:
ST. PETERSBURG, FL---The Tampa Bay Rays have traded left-handed pitcher Scott Kazmir to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in exchange for left-handed pitcher Alex Torres, third baseman Matt Sweeney and a player to be named later.
Kazmir, 25, is 8-7 with a 5.92 ERA (111-IP, 73-ER) in 2009, his sixth season (fifth full season) in the majors. He leaves Tampa Bay as the franchise's all-time leader in wins (55), innings pitched (834), strikeouts (874), starts (144) and quality starts (71). Kazmir is the only pitcher to be named to two All-Star Games as a Ray. He was acquired from the New York Mets on July 30, 2004, along with right-handed pitcher Jose Diaz in exchange for right-handed pitchers Victor Zambrano and Bartolome Fortunato.
Torres, 21, is a combined 13-4 with a 2.75 ERA (147.1-IP, 45-ER) in 26 appearances (24 starts) between Rancho Cucamonga and Arkansas (AA) this season. He went 10-3 with a 2.74 ERA (121.1-IP, 37-ER) for Rancho Cucamonga, earning California League All-Star honors and a July 31 promotion to Arkansas, where he went 3-1 with a 2.77 ERA (26-IP, 8-ER). Overall he has 149 strikeouts in 147.1 innings, while limiting opponents to only four home runs and 116 hits, good for a .222 opponents' average. The Valencia, Venezuela native will report to Montgomery (AA).
Sweeney, 21, hit .299 (63-for-211) this season for Rancho Cucamonga (A) with nine homers, 44 RBI, a .379 on-base pct. and .517 slugging pct. while playing third base and designated hitter. The left-handed hitter was sidelined the entire 2008 season while recovering from ankle surgery, and this year spent more than two months on the disabled list with a right hip injury. The two-time minor league All-Star was selected in the eighth round of the 2006 June Draft out of Rockville, Md. He will report to Charlotte (A).
Farewell Scott.
Welcome Matthew, Alex, and poor nameless soul.
Okay, let's go through everything.
The return
Matthew Sweeney missed all of 2008 with a broken ankle. He's a big, strong guy with some injury issues. Right now he plays third base and if you know anything about the Rays, you know that won't be the case whenever he reaches the majors. If he stays healthy, pencil him in as your potential 2011 first baseman or designated hitter. He's in High-A ball and figures to be major league ready by the time Carlos Pena leaves at the end of next season.
Alexander Torres is a lefty with swing-and-miss and groundball generating abilities. As you can guess, his fastball has good sink to it despite his short stature. He has control issues and he's in Double-A, but he's also striking out a lot more batters than most left-handed starters are capable of. Maybe he's nothing more than a pen arm, maybe he's a back-end starter.
Both are 21-years-old and neither were ranked in the Angels 2009 pre-season top 10 per Baseball America. John Sickels' last ranking of both was of the C+ variety. Purely from the rankings, that's not a great return, but the numbers don't suggest either is a C+ prospect. Both have some issues but I can't look at either's statistical profile and label them as nothing but fodder. There's upside and certainly some downside to be had here, and with the way prospect rankings change on a whim, I'd be shocked if both are C+ players come next year.
Plus there's a player to be named later involved. Probably nothing special, but who knows.
The departed
I'll admit to not being shaken by this one bit. It's not that I don't have fond memories of Kazmir, it's just that I came to acceptance with the idea of dealing him a month ago. I hope he pitches well for Anaheim just like I hope well for most former Rays. He added many nights of enjoyment to my baseball life and for that I'm thankful. Also: he gives us the own card to spring on trash-talking Mets fans.
So let's talk about his attributes.
He's injury prone and apparently was not the biggest lover of the fans or Jim Hickey, but that aside, he was a very good pitcher for quite a while and pitched well recently. Something like a 3.6 FIP the past 30 days.
He's also about to get expensive. Some are going to see the Rays moving a huge - by their standards - salaried player and call it a salary dump, a sign of cheapness, or a true showing of their parsimonious attitude. Whatever. The Rays just freed up a good amount of money to reallocate in other parts of the team. If that means re-signing someone or adding a new catcher via trade, then there you go.
The thing people should remember is that pitchers don't age like hitters. There's a pretty good chance Scott Kazmir has hit his peak already. His age is by and large irrelevant. Andrew Friedman has been combing the market for a while. If this is what he considers the best deal, then I can't disagree until other offers emerge.
Obviously you can keep him for another year and hope he avoids the D.L. and pitches better, but there's simply no guarantee either way. Kazmir's weighted FIP since 2006 is 3.88, and if you go from 2007 onwards, it rises to 4.04. Which is solid, but obviously the Rays feel they can get similar production for less money.
The playoffs
Our odds are around 16% right now (Note: written prior to tonight's victory/defeat). That's not good. I've pointed out for the past few weeks that the chances of the Rays making the post-season aren't great and would take some extraordinary play to achieve a berth. Losing Kazmir affects those chances, although probably not too much. Say the Rays replace him with Wade Davis (More on this next week, maybe tomorrow, I don't want to get into it here.) We'd assume a league average FIP around 4.5. ZiPS projects Kazmir at 4.11 the rest of the way. Sure, the Rays lose a few runs over the way, but the difference isn't getting the Rays into the playoffs nor should it be the only thing to keep them out.
Summary
Is it the prettiest of deals for the Rays? The easiest slam dunk? No. The prospect rankings don't like the guys we know we got in return, and there's the chance this backfires, but I can see why the Rays made this move. Also I must say, this kills the idea that the Rays care about public perception. Good on them for doing what they feel is best for the organization instead of what is best for the organization in the public spectrum. I don't know if it'll look like the right move in two years, four years, or ever, still they have some guts and have shown the brains in the past.
This isn't the franchise defining moment I imagined it would be and I think that's a good thing.
Oh, and I'm excited to see what this front office does with some more budget room.
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gotta say it
they’re really going to alienate the fans they’ve worked hard to attract. right or wrong, it’s very likely to happen.
If they move to Vegas maybe Silverman can game enough casinos to re-sign Upton.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully they can share a multi-use stadium with the Bucs
The girls left. According to one patron, Hamilton, piss-drunk by that point, asked the manager where he could buy blow. The manager didn't know. "Let's go to a strip club," Hamilton said. Someone drove Hamilton to Les Girls in Phoenix, Arizona.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 29, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
always a supporter of the moves/trades
but no one could convince me two mid level prospects were the best thing we could get for kaz, what a joke, obviously we gave up on this season because we are not a better team after this trade, just at a loss
by Toe Finch on Aug 28, 2009 10:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The difference between Kazmir and anyone in Durham isn't enough to keep us out of or get us into the playoffs.
Seriously people, it’s not happening, let it go and just enjoy baseball.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
the way the Rays play on the road & keep playing on the road
this post season hunt may have been over for a long time
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
right on
this team can’t seem to win on stuff that isn’t Fieldturf
by sofladude77 on Aug 28, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
perception about whether we're going for the postseason may have died
fan perception is important, no matter how right or wrong & this does not help, I think the timing was what was bad, and that it was only within 6hrs that it was in the media
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdnLBddzOtk
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
The PTBNL
is probably Alexi Amarista. Very good potential
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions
he left a game in the fifth
for no reason except….
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
dynamite comes in small packages...
:)
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You're fat
The girls left. According to one patron, Hamilton, piss-drunk by that point, asked the manager where he could buy blow. The manager didn't know. "Let's go to a strip club," Hamilton said. Someone drove Hamilton to Les Girls in Phoenix, Arizona.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 29, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
If he left the game then he wouldn't be a PTBNL
They would’ve just named him now
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Teams are given a list of players to choose from – mostly lower level guys that aren’t scouted regularily
by mustard_man on Aug 28, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he turned 20 in April
give him time
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not hating on him, I don't know anything about him
I just had my book near me so I shared the info
Got anything interesting on Sweeney/Torres?
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I read somewhere Sweeney is pretty bad with the glove
so a switch to 1B may help him offensively if he has had to focus a lot on improving defensively.
This was from the latest hot sheet:
Team: Double-A Arkansas (Texas)
Age: 21
Why He’s Here: 1-0, 0.00, 6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 8 SO, 3 BB, 1 HBP
The Scoop: A native of Venezuela, Torres spent nearly four full years playing in short-season ball. He entered the season with just 10 starts in the California League, but after 19 more this year he earned a promotion to Double-A, where he’s teamed with Trevor Reckling to give the Travelers two top-flight lefties. Torres checks in at 5-foot-10 and his control needs refinement (he’s walked nearly five batters per nine innings this season), but he still stands as the high Class A Cal League’s ERA champion at 2.74. The only minor league lefties to strike out more than Torres’ 149 are Matt Moore (Rays), Anthony Capra (A’s), Christian Friedrich (Rockies) and Ben Hornbeck (A’s).
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Torres sounds nice
Was hoping for a more ready 1B or C prospect to be in the deal
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweeney's probably ready after next year.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
RJ any chance Chris Richard gets the open 40 man spot
and Sweeney joins Durham.
He’d give us an extra bat off the bench for the next couple of days and a true back-up 1B in September.
would you be more inclined to believe a vet gets the 40 man spot
or one of the younger guys (hellickson or Deezy)
They don't have to fill it now anyway
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
In terms of entertainment? Youngster.
In terms of morals and all that bubblegum crap? I’d probably let Richard have a few at-bats so his kids (assuming he has some) get a few at-bats.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to see Hellickson get his feet what in the pen this year
but since the chances are that happens very slim, I wouldn’t mind seeing Jon Weber get his first major league experience.
Just throwing this out there but
Aki needs a 40 spot
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
He's currently in A+
On what basis are you asserting that he will be ready after only one year in the upper minors, while having to make a positional transition as well?
He'll probably start next year in AA.
And it’s first base.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
But, what about Sweeney makes you think he will go through AA and get enough AAA at bats to be ready by opening day 2011? Some top prospects or advanced bats move that quickly, but do you have a reason to believe that Sweeney is one of those kinds of guys?
And first base does have a few technical skills that need to be learned and gotten used to, it’s not DH.
Not really.
I’m just guessing the Rays think he’s on a timetable for ~2011, after Pena/Burrell are gone.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
from BA he sits 89-90 but can touch low 9'0's and has an effective tight Curveball
but lacked a 3rd pitch coming into the season
OT: HH's new nickname for Scott
Cashmere Sweater……….
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions
all I know is if your weed on in cali is as good as advertised
don’t be suprised if Kaz gets “lost” a lot
You know what? you don't deserve him.
I’m taking him back.
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
No, the Rev actually went with "Kashmir"
by mustard_man on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
where?
must have missed it….
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
just saw it
thanks for the heads up
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I'm excited to see what this front office does with some more budget room.
Is it too late to give Diekroeger a call?
Vroom vroom party starter
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Penny isn't going to get a roster spot
If Sano was worth a shit, wouldn’t someone have signed him two months ago?
Well we were in talks with the Angels for Kaz last month
So the Rays have probably been scouting the Angels for almost a month and these are the two they liked, I’d assume. Kaz has been good lately and they probably felt the time was now since he was starting to climb up a little bit. That’s just me thinking out loud. I trust this team’s scouts if they like this pitcher. We do that well
No issue with the concept of trading Kazmir
But the return appears pretty ridiculous on the surface. Hard to imagine this is the best return the market would produce. Maybe the PTBNL is Brandon Wood. grr
if Torres pops up as a prospect just behind Moore/Lobstein does this trade all of a sudden look better
The kid has put up really good numbers in a tough league for pitchers and one of the biggest reasons he wasn’t considered a top prospect was because he had never proven anything past rookie ball, now he has.
looking at this trade from the standpoint that we got 2 guys who weren’t top 10 guys in the Angels pre-season top prospect list is crazy.
Well, yeah, IF
And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
because everyone had Deezy/Hellickson #1 and #2 in our pre-season prospect list
yet I don’t know many that wouldn’t have it like that right now.
especially with minor leaguers/prospects things change during the season.
smart move
Raysrule44 has it right. Good time to trade Kaz when he gets a little bit hot. The thing that the real Rays fans know is that with everything he’s been through the last couple years he never got his slider back to how it used to be. He used to bounce in the slider and have hitters looking outraged after they struck out on it.
Also his fastball used to hit 94 all the time. Not that I trust the radar on tv, but it seems that it never hits 94 anymore. So if he gets hot with a combination of his fastball, change, and being angry – trade him right away. Because for whatever reason, once he lost his slider – he doesn’t seem to be able to get it back.
Regarding Hickey – I would be shocked if he’s with the club next year. They cut him slack on his DUI. But having Hammels and Jackson look better with other clubs, AND having Kaz go elsewhere for mechanical corrections - Hickey must go.
Then what does he really throw now..
90, 91?
by pcbredemeier on Aug 28, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to add that our FO has been scouting the Angels for months now
and I trust our FO August 2009 more than BA Febuary 2009 when it comes to evaluating prospects.
Why?
It’s not like they have a long track record or anything. The only trades I can think of are Cantu(didn’t get crap back, though his value was shit), Dukes(Glenn Gibson blows but obviously they were set on dumping Dukes)
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty ballsy bringing up Joyce
But Huff for Talbot/Zobrist was a good one that I missed.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
We also got Edwin for two overrated relievers.
And he was serviceable if overrated.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And it's not ballsy bringing up Joyce.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, if you say so
He’s already 25, I don’t know if more seasoning is going to happen.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
where would you have suggested we play him
We’ve had a lot of problems this year COF wasn’t one of them. Next year he should play everyday and will be just fine.
Yes, he'll be fine
He won’t, however, “rake.”
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll agree with that
I’m not a huge Joyce fan, but I think he will be league average in RF and considering what Ejax and done for us and what he was going to cost us I’ll take that as a return.
Young/Garza, Barty
Zobrist, yea you heard of him. He was one of those minor leaguers we got in a deal
Pedroza and Guzman didn't exactly get it done
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
How many prospects succeed anyway?
Pedroza was low minors anyway
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
he should be
the nice thing is, where he would be the #3 or #4 pitching prospect at worst for most teams, he is going to be like #6 for us
my guess is he lines up behing Hellickson, Davis, Moore, Lobstein, Mcceachren, Mcgee
Good thing they traded him when he was hot?
If he WASN’T hot what would they have gotten, Nick Adenhart?
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
looks like only one so far
And it’s not meant to be funny.
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
oh no
earlier threads from when Kaz was traded/not traded/traded/no seriously this time not traded/playing catch with Price
sorry man
I look in here just every once in a while when something’s happening… didn’t see the threads. Not trying to be funny anyway… just incredulous that someone implied that this is a good return because he just struck out 10 guys…
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
I’ve gotta finish Moneyball first though… heh
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
great book though and don’t worry I post on here all the time and don’t understand all the stats completely just pick up on the general idea of the arguement. Everyone can’t be a stat guy
Looks like the proverbial towel has been thrown.
The Rays are good at surprises, but I’d be surprised if the clubhouse takes this cash surrender by the front office very well. Ugly remainder of road trip incoming. Then the front office won’t be the only ones thinking the season is over.
Why not get nothing for Kaz after the season instead of during it?
It's the statement that's being made
You saw how the group reacted to the Victor Martinez move, and then the Wagner move. They were pretty discouraged to say the least. Kazmir is one happy little fellow right now, I’m assuming.
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
my point
And, since he doesn’t like the fans here too much, wait ’til he goes to a Red Sox game in Amaheim. It sounds like Fenway South of old.
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No, the numbers are always there
But Sox fans o’ plenty, and Scott doesn’t like that.
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
At least he beats the ALE teams
should help the Angels since they will play an ALE team during the playoffs most likely
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt.
Love the move from a short-term Anaheim perspective.
by gatorman2k2 on Aug 28, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
and the fact that Anaheim has no rotation
They look like the 2004 Yankees
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If Kazmir pitched perfect games every single start bewteen now and the end of the season, would we be automatically in? No. Are these two lowbies going to get us in? No.
Kaz is worth a lot more now than at the end of a shitty season for him when we go out shopping around and people start giving us low bids because they know we’re trying to dump him.
hopefully
I wanna be excited about someone that people say nice things about already
At least we didn’t pitch to Pujols with the bases empty in the B9
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wade's not that kind of guy
Hellickson on the other hand, he will fill in nicely when the time is right.
FO has done well so far in trades, so hopefully goodness will happen
Prior to this move:
Players > replacement level lost: …can’t even say Cantu any more
Players > replacement level gained: Zobrist, Bartlett, Garza
Glenn Gibson
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, EJ?
Think he’s > replacement value….
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Aug 28, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
hitter first
pitcher when the start is needed. We already have 32904290yu242 relievers we don’t need anymore until Sep 1.
we hope
while Sonny would prolly be better for the rest of the season, I’d much rather give Davis the starts because he is more of the future than Sonny.
wishful thinking
but this is his chance to get his feet wet in the bigs.
by sofladude77 on Aug 28, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
...............
Torres isn’t Matt Moore. No.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
And minus three strikeouts per 9 innings
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I mis-read Moore's strike-outs
he isn’t that good, but still a young lefty who strikes out a batter per inning and doesn’t give up basically any HR’s.
I mis-read Moore's strike-outs
he isn’t that good, but still a young lefty who strikes out a batter per inning and doesn’t give up basically any HR’s.
anyone know the difference between the SAL and the CAL leagues
I know the Cali league is usually considered a hitters league but not sure about the saly league.
The Cal League is one level higher
I think the Sally is relatively neutral
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If it leans either way it's toward pitchers
I can’t find any recent league factors though
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They accidentally Kazmir.
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Awww shucks
He didn’t say, “you guys fucking suck, you guys are a joke and your fans are gay”.
You know, because that’s normally what players say after they’re traded.
OOOOOOH!!!!
MUST BE THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bye Scottie. Thanks for the memories in TB. You will be missed and thought about often.
Just one question for Andrew: What’s the Positive Arbitrage rating on ditching Kaz his injuries and contract vs. the newbies in return?
Torres Sw Strikes by Start in AA
6.6%
11.0%
4.5%
14.6%
12.4%
9.8% TOTAL
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Unfortunately the question is control
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 28, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather a guy with filthy stuff that has control problems
than a guy who has great control and gets hit like a bitch
and how many AAAA pitchers have great command but anytime they face anyone good
the ball ends up in the seats.
Most of his starts for us this year
Were a waste of talent.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Aug 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that's because he wasn't right
he’s relatively more right now, he at least stopped walking everyone & having all his pitches fouled off
by Transplanted on Aug 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's already thrown a lot more innings than he ever has
I’d rather add Sweeney instead of Ashley, but they probably need a catcher. Maybe we can move Ashley to the Wed/Sat taxi squad and add Sweeney
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 29, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Kitty Kaz was traded for those two
a sexy kinda fat short LHP and a guy who can hit but couldn’t catch an STD in Ybor.
I'm kinda sad.
I always loved Kazzy…but I understand why it had to go down
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
POUR OUT SOME OF MY 40 AND PLAY THIS TRACK WHILE I KNOCKIN DOORZ DOWN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sQxFsblruE
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
I hope the Rays don't count too much on Sweeney
We need to find a way to get Kila Ka’aihue from the Royals
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Aug 29, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
we are going to trade Bartlett for Jay Bruce and sign him to a Longoria type deal
and everyone will be happy.
Bartlett for Kila and Kash
I think I can get some bumper stickers with that on it quick
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Aug 29, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember a little someone promising that the Rays wouldn't dump salary during a playoff chase
Stu Sternberg – July 10th?
yup
http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2009/07/sternberg-payroll-wont-be-cut.html
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 29, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
doesn't make it a bad move
whether it is Torres, Sweeney, or the PTBNL they felt the time to make a move was now and that like RJ said above the difference between Kaz and Davis/Sonny for the rest of the season isn’t that big.
I'm kinda suprised we didn't announce who was getting called up to take Kaz's roster spot
seems like whether it be Joyce, Briggy or a reliever they would have known when they made the move.
its going to be a starting pitcher!
Duh. Gotta replace the rotation spot
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Aug 29, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmmmmm
"We’re very excited about the player that we can’t name yet, but also about the other two," Rays manager Joe Maddon said. "The lefty has a great arm, and Sweeney is one of the best hitters in the minors." – Maddon
It sounds nice
but he also calls Sweeney one of the betters hitters in the minors, which is: wrong, so who knows.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Aug 29, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
hmm guessing game?
what would be a reason for a player to be considered a PTBNL and not actually named
on the dl, drafted within the year?
I’m not really sure
If I remember correctly, a player can't be drafted until one entire year after the day he signed his contract.
So if that’s the case, and the players who were drafted in 08 all signed their contracts by, what, 8/17/08? Wouldn’t that make them eligible a few weeks ago? Unless it was a guy drafted in this years draft, in which case we’d have to wait till 8/17/2010 at the latest for the name?
I know I made it sound confusing, but hopefully someone understands me. :D
naw I got you, that is why I don't think it is a drafted guy
although I looked through their players on the minor league DL and none of them appear sexy enough to word it like Maddon did, makes me wonder if it is a ML guy.
I think our friends at LL can illustrate this best
2009 Rays Baseball: BATTING STANCE GUY MUST DIE
Be a TRUE Seminole: http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071509aab.html
so question could the PTBNL be that way because he is on their current 25 man
and they are playing right now? meaning it could be announced after their game or would he have had to been pulled.
In case anyone is up for some speculation, here is the players currently on the Angels' 40-man roster.
Pitchers:
Jose Arredondo
Trevor Bell
Jason Bulger
Brian Fuentes
Kevin Jepsen
John Lackey
Robert Mosebach
Sean O’ Sullivan
Darren Oliver
Anthony Ortega
Matt Palmer
Fernando Rodriguez
Rafael Rodriguez
Ervin Santana
Joe Saunders
Rich Thompson
Jered Weaver
Catchers:
Ryan Budde
Jeff Mathis
Mike Napoli
Bobby Wilson
Infielders:
Erick Aybar
Matthew Brown
Chone Figgins
Maicer Izturis
Howie Kendrick
Kendry Morales
Sean Rodriguez
Freddy Sandoval
Mark Trumbo
Brandon Wood
Outfielders:
Bobby Abreu
Terry Evans
Torii Hunter
Gary Matthews
Robb Quinlan
Juan Rivera
Reggie Willits
Vladimir Guerrero
back to dealing proven players for prospects.
what else is new. I can’t imagine we couldn’t get Mike Napoli and/or Kendry Morales…..these 2 will never see action for the Rays…..NEVER
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
You're right, because every star in the Majors went right to the Bigs after being drafted.
Everyone in the minors blows the D!
im sorry but look at the returns we've gotten on most prospects
Tell me, you see Mitch Talbot, Joel Guzman, and Sergio Pedrozia to name a few ever make it for the Rays?
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Aug 29, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Ben Zobrist
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 29, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing is, you're right
I don’t think we should be trading for prospects, but when we were terrible? Of course it made sense then.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Aug 29, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah then it made sense
but now we should be asking for some legitimate help. We still are in a wild card race and surely there were better returns out there
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Aug 29, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
yes him and Mitch were traded together
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Aug 29, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever....
I can’t figure out why the time was now to trade him. I thought the offseason would have been better but now this just either puts a rookie in his spot in the rotation or brings Sonnanstine back up. I’d like to think Sonny just because we need some experience. I hope no one is throwing in the towel yet.
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
Since we're trading 25-year olds who have a downhill trend
Where should be expect BJ to be deal to?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
Did BJ get a pay raise I wasn't aware of?
Into the Wall : Sarcasm for the Soccer Guy
by ReasonableDoubt on Aug 29, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully where the fan base isn't full of dumbasses.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 29, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
reading some comments on mlb.com story
cwsfan56 wrote:
Kaz is a bum, do we not see that? And Andrews told Scott he would never have that velocity again and he would have to be a finese pitcher, think I trust James Andrews opinion. If Kaz can find control and be a finese, its a great move, but I am not sure he can.
cwsfan56 wrote:
Angels, he can’t speak english properly from what I can tell and he is a stoner which I am sure hurts that too. Kazmir’s numbers are way off, his velocity is down seven MPH, hes gonna be better than Bell, but not near what he was. His elbow injury caused him to change the way he pitches and until he learns how to be a control pitcher like a Fister or a Sowers, he is going to have problems, because his stuff isn’t there anymore.
Ehh maybe it makes sense
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
one more interesting quote from espn.com
We’re very excited about the player that we can’t name yet, but also about the other two," Rays manager Joe Maddon said. “The lefty has a great arm, and Sweeney is one of the best hitters in the minors.”
I wonder if it is someone on their 25 man roster
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
My guess, at least I hope
Howie Kendirck…good hitter, and can start at several different positions.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Aug 29, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't think it is Kendrick. The SPT suggested it is someone who hasn't reached the majors yet.
The one not named is considered closer to the majors and someone Maddon, a former Angels coach, called “a very interesting player that I’m very excited about.”
by walkoffwalk on Aug 29, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not Kendrick
The specualtion is that its a minor league player on the DL, which points to Jordan Walden. He’ll moved off of DL and then announced as the PTBNL.
Walden was the Angels #1 prospect going into 2009, but hurt his elbow. He’s a hard throwing RHP, but has control issues. In my opinion, he’s got some of the most violent arm action seen in the Angel’s farm system and health will always be the issue with him. Sickels had him at a “B+” in the December 2008 grades.
He’s either going to be lights out for the Rays, or he’ll blow his arm out and never be heard from again. There’s likely nothing in-between for him.
by mustard_man on Aug 29, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
from BA #2 Angels prospect behind Adenhart
Walden fell to the 12th round after entering 2006 as the top HS prospec in the draft but he boosted his stock with a year at Graysyon County (Texas) Community College and signed for 1 million as a draft and follow. He has justified the investment so far reaching high Class A Racho Cucamonga in his first full pro season as that team threatened to make the playoffs. He also showed the strongest arm in the system. Walden’s calling card remains his fastball which touched 101 and sat at 91-94 in 2008. He shows an impressive downward plane, and one observer said facing his heater was like trying to hit a brick. His 86-87 MPH slider has good tilt. He pitches to both sides of the plate and has the frame to be a workhorse. Against more advanced hitters, Walden will need to fine-tune his secondary pitches. He needs to dust off his changeup to better set up his fastball, His slider is inconsistant, at times losing velocity and shape. During Instructional league, LA had him focus on repeating his delvery, whichould help improve his command. Walden projects and a no. 2 or no. 3 starter with an ETA of mid-2010. If doesn’t open in 2009 in double AA he should get there by the end of the season.
Wood would be sexy
but I would imagine with Bartlett/Briggy/Zo clogging up the MIF already they wouldn’t go for someone like that.
this would make sense if they envision Napoli as their catcher of the future
if not can we has Napoli.
Excited about the PTBNL?
This could be a game changer.
"That's not baseball. Little numbers in a newspaper is...So-dookie, or whatever."
by Orlando Rays on Aug 29, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa...this suggests that they know who the PTBL is. Unlike some deals where the PTBL depends on how the traded player (Kazmir) performs.
We’re very excited about the player that we can’t name yet, but also about the other two,"
by walkoffwalk on Aug 29, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Last one I promise.....this one is a bit more interesting before you yell at me (espn.com)
lao149992 (8/29/2009 at 12:14 AM) Report Violation The playoffs were a longshot regardless. Trading Kazmir isn’t going to make-or-break this season.
-
it isn’t just the trade, although I disagree, Kaz has been pitching much more like his 2007 self lately and the Rays have no one close to his level to plug in, it is the clubhouse….everyon e in there now knows management lied when they said thay would not dump salary if they were in a playoff race (July 10th, stuart sternberg) and all them wondering who is next to save the Rays a few bucks…Mangement does not believe in them….
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
he wasnt back
kaz was much better since hes been back, but he wasnt back, he was not the old kaz and we cant afford to pay 12mil next season to take a chance and hope and wish. maybe with this extra money CC isnt as likely to go. most of you guys say the same on here but good god most people are thinking rays are idiots.
rotoworld likes it from our POV
Rays acquired LHP Alex Torres, 3B Matt Sweeney and a player to be named later from the Angels for LHP Scott Kazmir.
Torres, a 21-year-old left-hander, has quickly turned himself into a top rotation prospect this year by going 13-4 with a 2.74 ERA, 116 H and 149/80 K/BB in 147 1/3 innings between Single-A and Double-A. It looks like the Rays got a nice haul, but giving up on Kazmir so soon is sure to draw backfire from the media.
Rain delay
Into the Wall : Sarcasm for the Soccer Guy
by ReasonableDoubt on Aug 29, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
angel fan here.
hope kaz pitches well for us and the prospects you guys got in return make a positive impact in your organization.
quick ques, what was the deal with kaz and his relationship with the rays fans? been hearing it wasn’t too great?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
he bitched that the fans didn't come out to games
and said the reason he struggled was small crowds.
I think it was just once though he said something. For the most part I think a lot of fans liked Kaz although he was frustrating because he was often seemed to unperform considering his talent level.
$20m over the next 2 years
"That's not baseball. Little numbers in a newspaper is...So-dookie, or whatever."
by Orlando Rays on Aug 29, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i dunno why, but, i thought we signed him to longer deal
by walkoffwalk on Aug 29, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
yes
I think it’s at $13m, or $2.5m if the option is not executed
by mustard_man on Aug 29, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm a bit underwhelmed.
Granted, I know nothing about these prospects, but is this the best the Rays could do? Nobody offered more a month ago? They don’t think a team will offer more this off-season?
Probably one of those trades where it’s a net gain, but it could have been more of a net gain.
Sure would have loved Brandon Wood in the deal.
Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.
better be someone from their 25 man roster
"Doesn't Manny Ramirez look like the monster from Predator??" - Will Farrell as Harry Carey
by Gone Phishing on Aug 29, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
if it is Walden plus Torres and Sweeney is more of a throw-in than I'm happy as hell
Walden for sure and maybe Torres are both good prospects and should crack our top 10 and Sweeney has a chance to blow-up if he can solely focus on hitting, although 1B/DH prospects aren’t that special
Please
somebody murder him, now:
yodascoutPosts:5424
Dude. Helickson was ready for prime time last year … just like Clayton Kershaw.
He is not going to learn much that he doesn’t already know in AAA. We’d be in first place if
Hellickson had a spot in the starting rotation. Davis is so much better than Balfour and the
other ususal suspects who pitch the 6th and 7th as to be a joke that he is still in AAA.
As for the other pitchers … Durham plays defense like they have no gloves on. Snails run faster. Until Jennings and Perez got there, they were the WORST defensive outfield on planet earth.
Overall the pitching there is very good. But it take more than pitching for pitchers to look good
in the stat department.
The problem with the Rays is not the quality of pitching, which is very good, but how they use
them and where. The Rays front office is not the brightest of bulbs on the light pole. One reason
is they mostly come from Houston … Houston hates to promote young guys. They only do it out
of necessity. And of course they always finish just short of the promise land.
I want to scream, I want to scream, I want to scream- please allow me to scream, please oh please.
WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
That came out wrong...
That should be in quotes:
yodascoutPosts:5424
Dude. Helickson was ready for prime time last year … just like Clayton Kershaw.
He is not going to learn much that he doesn’t already know in AAA. We’d be in first place if
Hellickson had a spot in the starting rotation. Davis is so much better than Balfour and the
other ususal suspects who pitch the 6th and 7th as to be a joke that he is still in AAA.
As for the other pitchers … Durham plays defense like they have no gloves on. Snails run faster. Until Jennings and Perez got there, they were the WORST defensive outfield on planet earth.
Overall the pitching there is very good. But it take more than pitching for pitchers to look good
in the stat department.
The problem with the Rays is not the quality of pitching, which is very good, but how they use
them and where. The Rays front office is not the brightest of bulbs on the light pole. One reason
is they mostly come from Houston … Houston hates to promote young guys. They only do it out
of necessity. And of course they always finish just short of the promise land.
WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
well he is right about Durham's defense (at least pre Aki, Perez, and Deezy)
there were a couple good positions but for the the most part they were awful defensevily.
Oh Rob-
about time:
“Giving up two percent (of playoff odds) in exchange for three talented young players … well, on paper that’s a move you’d be thrilled to make, every day of the week.”
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-228/Rays-send-message-with-trade.html
well partially anyway
WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
To be brutally honest, this trading Kazmir is this team's way of waiving the white flag.
The starting pitching has pretty much been a letdown all year long. The good news is, I can’t imagine that the Rays will be victim to as many tragic losses next year as they were this one.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Hey man
Mlb.com is predicting 81, i however am a little bit more optimistic.
WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
wait what?
so we go from a team 11 games over .500 to a team that will finish 1 game under .500 because we trade a league average starter and replace him with a league average starter with a less sexy name, yea that makes since.
I'd guess right now that it's even.
But if I have to pick one, I’d pick over.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
The Rays need to finish 18 games over to do that. At this point, I don't see it happening. They've hovered around +10 since the ASB.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
.
Alex Torres is a slightly undersized lefty who has been up to 96 mph with good life down in the zone, helping him generate ground balls and keep the ball in the park, with just four home runs allowed this year in 147 innings, most of which came in the hitter-friendly Cal League. He doesn’t have an ideal starter’s build, but the history of missing bats and getting ground balls definitely point to the rotation.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 29, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm really hoping that one of these guys pans out pretty well.
Trading a ‘star’ player for a handful of do-nothings is so like Lamar and Namoli.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
yes b/c a 21 yr old LHP who strikes out a batter an inning and only gives up 4 HR in 147 innings
mostly in a hitters league is a do nothing.
Why don't you re-read what I wrote using a little reading comprehension and stop being a dick?
I don’t know anything about these prospects, and I sure as hell didn’t say that these guys suck. What I said is “I hope they don’t suck”. Trading a ‘star’ player for a handful of do-nothings is so like Lamar and Namoli. Sternberg and Friedman are NOT Lamar and Namoli. I hope they didn’t make a Lamar/Namoli mistake by trading for guys with good minor-league numbers but don’t pan out.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I guess I should change that now.
Also, USE MONEY TO BUY GOLD TEETH FOR CC.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
any idea how long it will be until the name gets leaked/announced?
this is going to drive me nuts trying to figure it out.
If it's someone who can't clear waivers it might a bit
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Aug 29, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
my favorite part of the KLaw piece
In exchange, the Rays got more than Atlanta got last year for the rental of Mark Teixeira.
yet ppl still think we got raped?
People weigh recent performances more than they should.
If Kaz were 0-2 with a 9 ERA the past month, everyone would say “YAYYYY!!!”
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta got raped; that's not even a close to fair comparison.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Kid K
I will miss you. My two favorite players are getting traded this year. It sucks.
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