Game Not Chilled As Rays Fall To Mariners

by Erik Hahmann on Aug 8, 2009 12:20 PM EDT

When you can score five runs while Felix Hernandez is on the mound you're normally going to win that game. Such wasn't the case last night. Jeff Niemann didn't pitch his best, but he pitched well enough to win. The bullpen that had been so good, especially lately, faltered a bit and that was that. It's too bad the Rays couldn't capitalize on the Yankee's win and move even closer to Boston in the wild card race.

-Niemann threw only 89 pitches through his 6.1IP. He actually threw his fastball for a strike 74% of the time. Don't ask me how. It was the 7th inning that game him trouble, with a fat version of Ken Griffey Junior taking him deep. When that's happening it's probably a good indicator that you're effectiveness is wearing thin.

-Brian Shouse allowed another hit to a left handed batter, which allowed the tying runs to score. With Randy Choate around, and the recent addition of R.J. Swindle, Shouse's time in the Rays pen may be limited.

-J.P. In, Game Lost. Those are words we haven't said too much this season. Howell has been one of the best relievers in baseball all year, so I'm not going to jump on him when he has a bad outing. It was the first time he has lost a game or blown a save in over a month. Howell hung a curveball and Langerhans hit it. Move on. Next game.

-Whatever Joe Maddon said to Pat Burrell during their extended BP session before the final game of the Boston series apparently worked. Burrell is 2-8 in his past two games, but has two home runs and only two strikeouts(!) in that span. His OPS is now even up over .700. Hooray.

-Jason Bartlett's home run in the 11th inning was his 10th of the season. He needs one more home run to match his career total of 11. I doubt any other full time players in the majors can say that.

-Tonight James Shields faces the newly acquired Ian Snell. Shields is coming off a disappointing start where he had a no hitter through seven innings, but somehow ended up with a loss to the Royals. This is Snell's first start in the Big Boy League, let's hope the Rays can hit him as well as the National League did.

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His face is classic.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions

I looked like that too.

Except it was 2am, so it turned into a yawn.

by Thaddeus? on Aug 8, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

faltered a bit

And Katrina was just a thuderstorm

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions

being negative is one thing

trying to compare baseball to a natural disaster that ruined the life of a whole lot of people is a complete other thing.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Excellent point on Shouse v Choate

Joe needs to realize it’s August not April and his idealistic goals of getting Shouse back in the groove may not have been too smart, especially with Ichiro AB

Branyan also smashed a line drive on the next pitch

He gone

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions

The Fire Joe Maddon

“Wagon” is picking up and rather quickly, I say:

foley2Posts:167

Another loss that rests squarely on Joe’s shoulders! The man loves to be seen making as many trips to the mound as possible! He again crushes our entire bull-pen and brings the guys out in an order that is doomed for failure! Why have Balfour ever come in when the situation calls for a ground ball pitcher? Why did he remove Cormier who looked great and can easily pitch 4 innings? Joe’s moves are insane! That was another one that was there for the taking and Mad-dumb pizzzed it away!

Duemig is alive, NOT FOR LONG though....

by 4QB on Aug 8, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions

How about the other day

when he waited for the Sox to announce Drew, then replaced Wheeler with Howell, and Drew’s numbers were great against Howell, noy so v Wheeler

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Drew is a lefty.

Howell is the right call.

Pitcher v. batter numbers mean NOTHING.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure, in a small sample

If Drew was 400/1000 of JP then I think that means something

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 8, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I doubt Drew ever sees 100 at-bats off Howell.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I meant that more in general

I got the impression that you were implying that all BVP is worthless

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 8, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

We're almost never going to have a large enough sample size for BVP to matter.

Especially with relievers.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

So if a guy is 0-25 and another guy is 14-25 that doesn't matter?

Random variation or not, there is something to be taken away from this.

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 9, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions

And what about taking Niemann out with runners on no outs in the 7th?

He was crusing along with a low pitch count and Maddon automatically goes into his “matchup” mentality. Niemann is good at getting out of jams and I’m pretty sure he would’ve been able to get out of that inning with little to no harm done. Instead he brings in Balfour who walks the world while him and Shouse say a collective “fuck you” to the lead.

by acablue on Aug 8, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, but not when you have the brilliance of Balfour waiting to come in

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

What's it like to exist in a world where baseball teams don't lose and baseball players don't have bad games?

by Suttree on Aug 8, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

That's a world I want to live in

I can't help that I make some things look easier than they really are.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 8, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

hindsight is 20/20 but yea I didn't realize at the time how low Niemann's PC was

I’m not so sure he shouldn’t have been given a chance, but than again hindsight is 20/20. I do think however that Cormier has earned that 7th inning role. It should be Cormier, Wheeler, Howell.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I won't even argue with the low "ball", but the one in the middle? C'mon. That's a squeeze job.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

RJ, you can't fight city hall

it happens in every game

Is it right? No

But if we start making an issue, it simply looks like sour grapes

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I already wished the umpire to fornicate with a railroad spike.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

What was the thinking in bringing in Shouse in the 7th (I think)

over JP? Figured we’d get our high leverage guy then. I know hindsight is 20/20, just curious as to the logic.

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Aug 8, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions

You won't see Howell in the 7th inning, and i can't dosagree

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

You and I and everyone else on this blog know very well that JP is not just our "bullpen ace"

He is the closer and Maddon was saving him for the 9th.

by acablue on Aug 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I know that, not that I necessarily agree with it

but the discussion on here has been we shouldn’t name a closer but rather use “that guy” in the highest leverage situations, or where it makes a difference. I’m just trying to find what the logic is for Shouse or Howell in the 7th, other than “JP is the closer”

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by Buc Wild on Aug 8, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions

there isn't

Maddon has always had a “closer” I’m not really sure why he doesn’t admit it. I remember times last year and some earlier this year when Wheeler obviously struggled in the 9th yet was continuously only used in that situation.

Howell is a great closer and I wish Maddon would just admit that he is the closer, he might actually start getting some more recognition.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

No, I agree with you

I was just pointing out the reason that Maddon didn’t bring him in the 7th. I don’t particularly agree with Maddon’s approach on this issue. But then again, what if JP got out of the jam, only to have Wheeler give up the lead in the 9th? Then we’d be having the same conversation.

by acablue on Aug 8, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Because we have to play along with the retarded tradition.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Who pitches the 9th if Howell goes into the 7th?

Wheeler has proven that he can’t pitch that well in the 9th and Maddon doesn’t seem to trust Cormier enough for late inning pressure. I don’t see anything wrong with our 8/9 right now, it has been one of the best in baseball since Howell moved into the 9th inning role. Our problem is we don’t have a 7th guy that Maddon likes . I happen to think either Cormier or Sonnanstine would fit in nicely into that role but apparently Maddon disagrees. There is absolute 0 reason to have 2 loogys unless they are lights out loogys that give up hits once or twice a month. I said that when Shouse came back and haven’t been shown any reason to not believe it. My solution cut Shouse and call up Sonnanstine. After that either move Cormier to the 7th inning role and let Sonny be the long guy or let Sonny be the 7th inning guy. I don’t get why we need to use a Loogy in a situation just because we have one. If Sonny or Cormier/Wheeler/Howell can get the 7/8/9 done than don’t worry about match-ups so much (unless it is like 3-4 straight lefties)

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

The next best reliever left.

As long as they aren’t the worst reliever, it doesn’t matter.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 8, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not sure if there are stats to back it up

but I would guess there is a difference in a pitchers effectiveness based on inning from what I have noticed over the last couple years

basically saying that while we all agree that Howell is better than Wheeler, on a scale of 1-10 based on effectiveness if you were to say on average JP a 8 and Wheeler a 6. I would think in the 8th inning JP would still be about a 8 and Wheeler would be an 7 however in the 9th I would say JP would be closer to a 9 and Wheeler around a 5.

now I know using only a 1-10 scale makes the numbers look like there is a big difference while in reality it isn’t that huge but the point still is that for some reason there are guys who pitch better in different situations and on this team JP has proven he is very good in that 9th inning situation and others like Wheeler have proven to be not so good.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Snell

For the record Snell has started one previous game for the Mariners this year, against the Rangers in Arlington, 3H 2R 4K 3BB in 6.0 innings. Both runs were solo shots.

by njd.aitken on Aug 8, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions

I think the first couple innings are key

normally I don’t agree with Raymondo’s we have to score in the 1st inning to win. In this case though I think getting to Snell early would be good. He is a headcase and if gets thrown off his rocker it could lead to wildness and more work for the Seattle pen.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I wish i had a dollar for every post that

starts out apologizing for agreeing with me

by Raymondo on Aug 8, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

i'm not apoligizing

typically I don’t agree with you. If we score 2 runs off of say Josh Beckett in the first it means something completely different than scoring 2 runs off of Ian Snell. The chances of Beckett bouncing back and shutting us down the rest of the way are a lot higher than him imploding, whereas with Snell I am inclined to believe the chances of him imploding are higher than him shutting us down.

that being said we seem to tear up good pitching and suck against shitty pitchers.

by Dbullsfan on Aug 8, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions