Gabe Gross is the Invisible Man; Gross Becomes Non-Tender Candidate

by Tommy Rancel on Sep 30, 2009 6:00 AM EDT Comment 41 comments

More photos » by Steve Nesius - AP

Maybe Gabe Gross just misses Scott Kazmir?

The sad reality of this shuffling roster game we play is sometimes you have to say good-bye to valuable pieces of the puzzle that have become expendable either because of their own salary or other cheaper viable options. Akinori Iwamura most likely will be one of those players. Gabe Gross is likely to be another.

For those of you who haven't noticed Gabe Gross is still an active member of the Rays roster. However, with Iwamura's return and Ben Zobrist's ability to play an above average right field, Gross has become the invisible man. Iwamura and Zobrist are part of the reason Gross has been riding the pine, but his play at the plate hasn't helped his case either.

Gross got off to a stellar start in 2009. In his first 165 plate appearances he hit .286/.394/.443. With that line and his defense, Gross was on his way to a 3 WAR season. Despite that good start, things have fallen apart for him. Over his last 152 plate appearances he is hitting just .180/.272/.286 and he's defense has suffered as well. While he is still a plus defender, a 6.4 UZR isn't as sparkling as the 11.8 he put up in 2008 especially with a recent batting line that rivals Dioner Navarro.

Gross will be arb2 eligible this off-season. Given the fact that he earned $1.255 million dollars this season, and his lack of production this year, Gross is a prime non tender candidate. This doesn't mean he isn't valuable. Average is still good except when it becomes expensive. He has given the Rays $3.8 million dollars of production in ‘09, but his value doesn't match the Rays salary structure. With Matt Joyce available and ready to take over at the same position with a similar, and better, set of skills for around 1/4 of the cost it's just smart business.

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We need more of these guys who are toast that aren't automatic FAs

Because 2010 is a big year and there’s a whole big pile of guys going out that door & aren’t coming back.

by Transplanted on Sep 30, 2009 6:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

easy SternFan nominee for Article of the Year

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 6:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yep and it seems like only yesterday when DRB was applauding Gabe Gross

for his escellence, and who was it that thought Swisher was the better choice in RF, to which was followed by hiss and boos

Good conquers evil again!!

Gross is exactly that

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason Nick Swisher looks good is because he's been a Ray killer this year

8 of the his HRs have been vs TB pitcher. Can’t hit HRs against your own team.

by Transplanted on Sep 30, 2009 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really? je's hit 28 HR to date

and has a 250/369/496 slash line

Gross couldn’t put those numbers up against St. Mary’s girls team

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm positive the Swisher to the Yankees move was praised on this site.

It wasn’t that he isn’t better than Gross, it’s that he’s way, way, way more expensive and a platoon RF that cost 2.25 million makes far more sense for this team than a non-platoon RF that cost 8.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Sep 30, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn't he look better than Burrell?

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burrell cost 7M

Swish would have cost 5.3M plus more expensive years, plus the prospects we’d have had to trade to get him.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not quite accurate

Burrell cost 7M, but also 9M next year. Swish was also more of a salary dump than it was a cost of prospects. That being said, Burrell was coming off a much better year and had a more consistent track record, thus making him a more appealing option.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 30, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

esser called, presumably to fire Eric Wedge

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What? type better

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 30, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now you see that evil will always triumph because good..... is dumb.

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm expecting a 'shock and awe' type deal from AF this off season

I’m not sure it’s what we should do however

Stay the course, work the plan

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes you are a tough read

All you’ve done for 160 games or so is complain about this roster compared to the Yanks and Sox. Complained about a team that will finish above .500. Now you want to stay the course and think fans overreact to losing?

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You of all people should know me. I clearly am a 'heat of the moment' poster

After i cool down and take a look, i’m better prepared to analyze

I do however thank we can upgrade RF, and need to designate someone to close, just so the rest of the bullpen knows their role

Also, i’m not sure i want to see Zaun catch 120 games

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure 120 is an option for Zaun

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

do you agree on the other two thoughts?

also how many PA can we expect from S-Rod?

And where will Aybar’s ABs come from?

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we have our RF in Joyce

I don’t believe in designated closers, roles should be defined by leverage/situation, not inning. I’m not sure how Aybar/SRod will play out.

I know people don’t like the idea of platooning Joyce because it stunts his growth, but I like the idea of a dual platoon of S-Rod and Joyce with Zo swinging. It may not be best for Joyce, but its probably the best for the Rays. Zo’s flexibility allows for this without taking up roster spots. Aybar can back up the corners. Perez can back up the OF.

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the end I think that's how it will work.

Aybar serves as backup to 1B/3B and get some DH time. Perez becomes a true 4th OF and is used as a pinch runner and spot starter. Vs. RHP I see Zobrist @ 2B with Joyce in RF. Vs. LHP I see Rodriguez and Zobrist in the lineup with one at second and the other in right.

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by Tommy Rancel on Sep 30, 2009 9:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

CC and Bartlett are the wildcards

If Bartlett is back and CC is gone, Zo can become an outfielder with an S-Rod 2B/Brigs SS dual platoon with Bartlett swinging.

If Bartlett is gone, Briggy is in the SS picture. All sorts of possible platoons, but there would be a big defensive give up.

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

s become creatures of habit and perform better knowing their role

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your role can be defined by leverage

I agree with defined roles. I challenge how you choose to define them.

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not obe to be in love with ave totals

Riviera is a great pitcher who happens to pitch when the gamne is on the line

i don’t like the handling of our bullpen this year

Springer a Fly ball pitcher comes in to face Inge a FB hitter

Leaving the SP in too long and the pen’s inability to get IRR from scoring

Maddon has lost me this year

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

^^excuse the typo--keys are sticking i guess

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are they sticky if the Rays didnt lose last night?

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by Buc Wild on Sep 30, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well done sir

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been highly critical of bullpen usage including Springer with bases loaded

That does not mean you need a 9th inning closer.

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what gets forgotten in this closer discussion

is that for a closer-by-committee to work, you need to have more than one decent pitcher to form the ‘committee’. Committee denotes a plural. The Rays right now only have Howell who is trustworthy in late-inning situations. For it to work, the Rays need to add 2 pitchers with ‘late inning’ experience. Perhaps a combo of a Mike Gonzalez/Rafael Soriano and a Kiko Calero would suffice. Total cost of that would be somewhere around 6mil. That instead of 8-12mil a season on 1 pitcher to be a designated closer.

In the Rays financial picture, the first option is much more appealing than the second and gives the bullpen more depth in the process. But without multiple late-inning relievers, it just doesn’t work. And it doesn’t mean you can just pick up every reliever off the scrap heap and stick them in the situation and expect it to work every time. You still have to invest in decent relievers or home grow your own. The Rays could be in the process of doing the latter. Matt Gorgen and Jake McGee (if he doesn’t stay in the rotation) could offer two impact bullpen arms by next season’s end.

But for now, if the Rays truly want to have a closer-by-committee, spend a little dough for a few decent relievers rather than 1 expensive reliever…but nonetheless, spend the dough.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 30, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As for the 'other Gabe' can a team that at times finds a need to carry 13 pitchers really

afford a specialty like him, one wjo has less than 200 significant PA (v LHP)?

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem with Kaplers production

But like Gross, his salary goes against a return. Fernando Perez is the ideal 4th outfielder and makes near minimum.

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by Tommy Rancel on Sep 30, 2009 7:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

As things stand now i'd agree, but i wasn't debating whether Kapler had done his job, just that he's a bit too specialized to keep when you at times have 13 pitchers.

Perez, while not as productive v LHP is a SH who can steal bases

by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus he comes at 1/3 the cost and wouldn't be a drop off defensively.

If we carry 13 pitchers at any point other than September 1st next year, then something is wrong. Unless your bullpen is completely taxed from a game or a double header it makes no sense. Hopefully, what we saw this year was just a temporary lapse of roster management.

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by Tommy Rancel on Sep 30, 2009 8:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

The basestealing is huge. We lacked a pinch runner all year

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by FreeZorilla on Sep 30, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In no way related to post...

Just scored me an iPhone and wanted to see how draysbay mobile looks. Now my witty banter can be added to this site at all times.

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on Sep 30, 2009 9:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Gabe Free in 2010

I like Honest Gabe as much as the next guy, but I dont want to see him or his roid raging platoon partner next year. If we dont trade CC we should have Zobrist out in right every day. If we do trade CC we should have Joyce out there and Zobrist in left.

by Devil Ray on Sep 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about who is in LF who is in RF

Zobrist has shown to have a very strong arm and usually you hide your noodle arm in left, while we don’t have much info on Joyce his arm has been mediocre in the OF in ~600 innings, but I do agree with your general idea.

the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009

by CubFanRaysaddict on Sep 30, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs