Dave Cameron Officially Ends the Rays 2009 Season
2009 was a missed opportunity. If Tampa Bay wants to remain in the mix with the big money teams, they can't afford more missed opportunities. The Rays need to reload their roster this winter, and if it takes a willingness to part with some of their young talent in order to do so, than so be it. Building for the future is great, but they can't let too many chances to bring a World Series title slip through their grasp.
Thoughts?
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I agree with it
Even though it was early, I felt that the first 6 weeks killed any realistic chance of going to the playoffs. The bad performances by Burrell, Kaz, Sonny, and Percival totally negated what was gained from Bartlett and Zobrist playing so well. There were at least 8 games we had no chance of winning due to early implosions by Kaz and Sonny. The black hole starts just didn’t happen in 2008.
It’s critical for the FO to address the catching situation this offseason. I bet Zaun sticks around to catch 30-40% of the games, but we need someone who has either real offensive or defensive value at that position. I also think they should pick up the CC option and trade him if they get an obscenely good offer and either let Aki go, or pick up that option and trade him.
This would be a nice 2010 opening day roster:
C Doumit (not sure how)
1B Pena
2B Zobrist
SS Bartlett
3B Longo
LF Crawford
CF Upton
RF Joyce
C Zaun
IF Aybar
IF Brignac
OF Matt Murton
OF Nando
SP1 Shields
SP2 Garza
SP3 Price
SP4 Niemann
SP5 Davis
BP Howell
BP Wheeler
BP Balfour
BP Choate
BP Cormier
BP Friedman’d
BP Friedman’d
Friedman’d = FA pickup, trade acquisition, or SP conversion. Whatever works. Talbot and Sonny to the pen suits me just fine.
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
I'm fine with Choate as a cheap LOOGY
If there’s a better option out there, fabulous. As for Balfour I think he’s good for another year in lower leveraged roles. I don’t think Jeff Bennett’s mom would sign him at this rate.
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Choates 3 yr OPS against vs LHP is .900+. Its a SSS but hes a mediocre LOOGY and probably not much better than a tough righty like Balfour who is at .704
If you waste a roster spot on a LOOGY, he better be dominant
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Yikes
Dump is ass.h
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, that H was a little off...
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Zaun cannot be viewed as a legitimate solution next year. The Rays need to find something else.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Maybe it does, just not on teams I follow. I don’t know, but catcher is an ideal spot to platoon because you have to have two of them anyway.
Tools Whore
Actually, trade one of the SS
IF S-Rod (totally forgot!)
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Who the hell said it was over????
If the failpen gets it together and boston goes cold(white sox series could be signs maybe) we can get into it. Its not over till their bostons declared wild card winners….
This isn't a 2 team race
Neftali Feliz scares the pants off me. tehe
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
No...
Im the type of person that doesn’t give in, anything can happen in baseball. teams can go cold all of a sudden and others hot all of a sudden.
But then a sweep must happen at boston..so it is against our odds
It's not giving up.
It’s accepting that mathematical probabilities state the chance of playoffs are pretty barren. Realistically, it’s about as close to over as we can get.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on R.J.
No one thought the Mets would collapse like they did in 2007. But they went out and achieved!
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to agree with the "we blew it" comment in regard to this season
When the NYY may win the division by double figures, i doubt we’d be able to contend
i don't like that kind of thinking.
we had a chance this year just as much as they did. we didn’t cash it in and they did.
I interpret the above quote to imply that we should trade some of our young talent for
proven, good, talent. Anyone else take it that way?
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There's not many people to add.
Halladay? Felix? J.J. Hardy? Prince? We don’t have many open pegs.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what we've been saying, but maybe it's time to take a step back and look at it from a different angle?
Not sure the correct perspective, but one way might be, if we are in a win now mode, who would you want on the team and who would you offload? Who would you target?
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For example, we have plenty of pitchers so we say we are ok, but we don't have the elite pitcher that could put us over the top
If not Halladay, whom else might be available via trade?
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Doesn't he only pitch well during day games on a Tues-Thursday
During the months of May, July, and September?
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Ugh, Dan Haren is actually an interesting target.
I don’t want to rosterbate though.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Some friends and I talked about this issue at a game a few weeks back and we decided if we could get one guy it'd be Haren.
But, I don’t know the pieces it would take to get him.
Terrible, though not because of any foresight on your part.
Even a retarded chicken manages to cross the road occasionally.
is this the cousin to
Even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in awhle?
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Of course Billy has a whole other mag of bullets
Why not trade the one with the most value, smrt
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I wouldn't want him anyways.
Big pitcher contracts are usually awful investments.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Do the Nationals have anyone worthwhile?
If so, i’ll chip in for the bag of chips it takes to get said player
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Sending over some Baked Lays as we speak then.
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I'd also go after Porcello if for nothing else than he took down Youkilis
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If Felix is going to be traded I would be happy with him going to you.
by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a terrified of him ending up in Boston or New York.
If he’s not going to play for Seattle, I at least want him to go somewhere that allows me to continue to root for him.
by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Can, but probably shouldn't.
He’s also club controlled through 2011, and his value to the Rays for those two years is probably higher than his value to the Mariners for those two years.
by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Would Talbot, Sonny, and Chris Richard be enough then?
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by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No I don't think that would be enough to get it done
by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
M's don't really have a long term answer at 1B.
Richard is a gritty veteran that can be a positive influence in a young locker room. Talbot has 3rd starter potential and we all have seen Sonny when he is locked in. To me, I don’t see how you don’t do this.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Crawford: Necessity or Luxury?
we’ve been kicking around whether to keep CC or trade him all season long, and rather than make another full post on it, i thought it would be better just to put it in here. I’ve been a proponent for keeping CC, but as the season has wore on, and almost come to a close, i’ve asked myself one question: Is CC a necessity or a luxury? And the only way to answer that question is this: 1)Can his production be replaced by what we have in the system, 2) what can he net in a trade, and 3) what would we use the freed up money on?
a hypothetical situation can go something like this: Jennings can go to LF, something like SF’s Buster Posey can fill our need at C, and the Rays can use that 10 mil towards the bullpen…like a Valverde, or Rafael Soriano/Mike Gonzalez.
If there is a scenario where the Rays can get a top up-and-coming talent for CC, bring Jennings up to the show, and add bullpen help with the saved money…the Rays can retool themselves for next season just by trading CC. It’s hard to see how this scenario, if possible, isn’t the best solution.
by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
Based on being above average and extremely cheap.
He’s a front-end starter not even making back-end money.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
LaPorta fetched Sabathia
different circumstances entirely (much more upside with Garza being arby and relatively cheap), It seems a little weak
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Would moving MVB and AAA player/pitcher allow us to secure a higher end starter?
Seems that with Brignac, Zo, S-Rod, Aybar etc we’ve got middle infield covered.
Or would moving Pena be an idea with Zo/Aybar/PTBNL playing there?
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Move Crawford, Pena, and Bartlett for Haren, get some middling prospects and let Joyce, Zobrist, Brignac/SRod take their places.
Would it seriously take smiley, CC and MVB to get Haren?
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Probably, considering they're all near the end of their contracts and Haren's one of the best starters in the game on a very fair contract.
Nando.
I just don’t see him being a full time OF. He can do well in a platoon I think (aka the new Gabe Kapler)
Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz
Notice the pattern?
Groundballers in the NL would still most likely be groundballers in the AL, can’t write them off completely
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What could we get for Crawford, Garza, Bartlett
resign the gabes for 1 year in right (and then Deezy plays if he is ready, which he should be, by 2011), play Joyce in left. Brignac at short, and Talbot as the 5th starter assuming Davis is the 4th (price and niemann 2-3). Then we take Sonny, throw him in the bullpen, and release everyone except for Howell, Cormier, Sonny, Choate, Thayer and use the money we saved to cheaply fill up the bullpen’s last two spots. That team should be a mid 80s win team+, and I think that plan going forward sets us up big time going down the road.
Dave wants out, hard
If he was their boy they would have left Chrissy alone instead of being so mean to him.
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How about Josh Johnson (not the QB)
Marlins aren’t going to extend him and they looooove prospects
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Was dealign Kaz a sign of things to come
or will he be the only high paid guy to leave the Rays? The article indicates we have to part with other pieces (young pieces). Is he referencing minor league guys, or young talent like Beej, Brignac etc.
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guys like Niemann/Davis/Brignac probably
beej isn’t going. His percieved value is just too low right now.
how could one possibly trade wade davis not unless they are blown away
and even neimann and briggy should stay
*yawn*
i wouldn't trade them, but how could you?
easy..
AF: Hey, Seattle, want to give me Fgut for teh corner outfield? We’ll give you Briggy and Aneury.
Seatle: Surely
Define "reload"
With the collapse, the Rays have to wonder what could have been. There is no doubt that this is a talented team that they put together, with both tremendous ability and depth at most positions.
Other than maybe payroll implications, given the above statement, why the pressing need to reload? This is/was a team with the talent to make the playoffs, it just didn’t happen this year. Other than catcher, there is no obvious hole for significant improvement.
Your source for replacement level commentary
First 3/4 of DH production
Though we arent moving PtB unless Al Davis ventures over to the MLB side of things
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I would imagine Davis would be in the starting rotation next year anyway.
Shields
Garza
Price
Davis
Niemann
I’m cool with dealing Niemann if it would help us acquire a Josh Johnson/Danny Haren type.
His peripherals bely his actual contribution.
You keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it just never seems to.
.341 Babip with a .274 average against is pretty crazy
4.05 K:BB is pretty awesome, 3.55 FIP on the year is cool, 62.1% LOB explains ERA difference, having actual fielders on the field would be nice for him for once. 11.4% HR/FB is right in line with what you would expect, not sure which shoe you are waiting to drop, but he seems dynamite in front of horrible defenders.
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That's what I mean.
He seems like he should be better, but guys score on him. Maybe these guys are just prone to bad innings or something. I don’t know, but sometimes it seems pitchers fare better/worse than the peripherals. Now we wait for the peripherals or the results to change.
Your Sonny reference makes more sense when you put it like that
I was at a game that he shut us down for 7. I just think a big part is that his defense is pretty terrible all over.
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Rocco for Nolasco!
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"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Rocco for Howard & Myers!
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"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Why all the talk about acquiring another starter?
Granted Sonny has pitched his way out of the conversation, but we do have tons of quality depth at the position for years to come.
OTOH my worry is that there is really no place where the team can truly upgrade. I guess we can use a catcher and/or DH. But every other position is pretty darn good. Pitching wise our starting 5 should match up with anyone. Moving any starter is either a marginal upgrade at best or a sacrifice of potential. And of course we have bullpen issues this year, but MLB bullpens have historically been highly volatile. There really is no quick fix for that (esp cheaply).
So I think the only real way we improve next year is by better managing and more consistency. We can’t get swept in a 4 game series against a last place team for example.
Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.
You can always improve.
We have a lot of depth at SP, but no elite talent (at least not yet). I think that is what people are saying we could address, not trying to go out and just get a “good starter.”
We have a solid #2 in Shields
A solid #3 in Garza
A solid #4 in Niemann
A solid #5 in Davis
If Price can live up to his billing and become our ace next year we are in great shape, but it worries me that our “#1” is always facing another teams Ace and so on down the line.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

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