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Dave Cameron Officially Ends the Rays 2009 Season

2009 was a missed opportunity. If Tampa Bay wants to remain in the mix with the big money teams, they can't afford more missed opportunities. The Rays need to reload their roster this winter, and if it takes a willingness to part with some of their young talent in order to do so, than so be it. Building for the future is great, but they can't let too many chances to bring a World Series title slip through their grasp.

 

- Fangraphs

Star-divide

Thoughts?

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I agree with it

Even though it was early, I felt that the first 6 weeks killed any realistic chance of going to the playoffs. The bad performances by Burrell, Kaz, Sonny, and Percival totally negated what was gained from Bartlett and Zobrist playing so well. There were at least 8 games we had no chance of winning due to early implosions by Kaz and Sonny. The black hole starts just didn’t happen in 2008.

It’s critical for the FO to address the catching situation this offseason. I bet Zaun sticks around to catch 30-40% of the games, but we need someone who has either real offensive or defensive value at that position. I also think they should pick up the CC option and trade him if they get an obscenely good offer and either let Aki go, or pick up that option and trade him.

This would be a nice 2010 opening day roster:
C Doumit (not sure how)
1B Pena
2B Zobrist
SS Bartlett
3B Longo
LF Crawford
CF Upton
RF Joyce

C Zaun
IF Aybar
IF Brignac
OF Matt Murton
OF Nando

SP1 Shields
SP2 Garza
SP3 Price
SP4 Niemann
SP5 Davis

BP Howell
BP Wheeler
BP Balfour
BP Choate
BP Cormier
BP Friedman’d
BP Friedman’d

Friedman’d = FA pickup, trade acquisition, or SP conversion. Whatever works. Talbot and Sonny to the pen suits me just fine.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Choate and Balfour need to go

and those BP FAs better not be mamed Jeff Bennett

by sternfan1 on Sep 8, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with Choate as a cheap LOOGY

If there’s a better option out there, fabulous. As for Balfour I think he’s good for another year in lower leveraged roles. I don’t think Jeff Bennett’s mom would sign him at this rate.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yikes

Dump is ass.h

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, that H was a little off...

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Age

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 8, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which I am totally down with

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 8, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

Maybe it does, just not on teams I follow. I don’t know, but catcher is an ideal spot to platoon because you have to have two of them anyway.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Sep 8, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

And I think Navi isn’t as terrible as he has been this year.

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 8, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, trade one of the SS

IF S-Rod (totally forgot!)

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who the hell said it was over????

If the failpen gets it together and boston goes cold(white sox series could be signs maybe) we can get into it. Its not over till their bostons declared wild card winners….

by Longo on Sep 8, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

This isn't a 2 team race

Neftali Feliz scares the pants off me. tehe

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Sep 8, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...

Im the type of person that doesn’t give in, anything can happen in baseball. teams can go cold all of a sudden and others hot all of a sudden.

But then a sweep must happen at boston..so it is against our odds

by Longo on Sep 8, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

It's not giving up.

It’s accepting that mathematical probabilities state the chance of playoffs are pretty barren. Realistically, it’s about as close to over as we can get.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hard to agree with the "we blew it" comment in regard to this season

When the NYY may win the division by double figures, i doubt we’d be able to contend

by sternfan1 on Sep 8, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't like that kind of thinking.

we had a chance this year just as much as they did. we didn’t cash it in and they did.

by yeseggs on Sep 8, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's not many people to add.

Halladay? Felix? J.J. Hardy? Prince? We don’t have many open pegs.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what we've been saying, but maybe it's time to take a step back and look at it from a different angle?

Not sure the correct perspective, but one way might be, if we are in a win now mode, who would you want on the team and who would you offload? Who would you target?

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't he only pitch well during day games on a Tues-Thursday

During the months of May, July, and September?

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Bartlett, Garza, Pena, Niemann

Cue Matthan we’ve got a fantasy trade alert.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do the Nationals have anyone worthwhile?

If so, i’ll chip in for the bag of chips it takes to get said player

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a terrified of him ending up in Boston or New York.

If he’s not going to play for Seattle, I at least want him to go somewhere that allows me to continue to root for him.

by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh

Y’all can pay him, though.

by rglass44 on Sep 8, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can, but probably shouldn't.

He’s also club controlled through 2011, and his value to the Rays for those two years is probably higher than his value to the Mariners for those two years.

by Aaron Campeau on Sep 8, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok

Would Talbot, Sonny, and Chris Richard be enough then?

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford: Necessity or Luxury?

we’ve been kicking around whether to keep CC or trade him all season long, and rather than make another full post on it, i thought it would be better just to put it in here. I’ve been a proponent for keeping CC, but as the season has wore on, and almost come to a close, i’ve asked myself one question: Is CC a necessity or a luxury? And the only way to answer that question is this: 1)Can his production be replaced by what we have in the system, 2) what can he net in a trade, and 3) what would we use the freed up money on?

a hypothetical situation can go something like this: Jennings can go to LF, something like SF’s Buster Posey can fill our need at C, and the Rays can use that 10 mil towards the bullpen…like a Valverde, or Rafael Soriano/Mike Gonzalez.

If there is a scenario where the Rays can get a top up-and-coming talent for CC, bring Jennings up to the show, and add bullpen help with the saved money…the Rays can retool themselves for next season just by trading CC. It’s hard to see how this scenario, if possible, isn’t the best solution.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Would moving MVB and AAA player/pitcher allow us to secure a higher end starter?

Seems that with Brignac, Zo, S-Rod, Aybar etc we’ve got middle infield covered.

Or would moving Pena be an idea with Zo/Aybar/PTBNL playing there?

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Notice the pattern?

Groundballers in the NL would still most likely be groundballers in the AL, can’t write them off completely

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boom

/Randolph Jesuit Anderson’D

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ranier Jackson

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remy Jaquan

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

What could we get for Crawford, Garza, Bartlett

resign the gabes for 1 year in right (and then Deezy plays if he is ready, which he should be, by 2011), play Joyce in left. Brignac at short, and Talbot as the 5th starter assuming Davis is the 4th (price and niemann 2-3). Then we take Sonny, throw him in the bullpen, and release everyone except for Howell, Cormier, Sonny, Choate, Thayer and use the money we saved to cheaply fill up the bullpen’s last two spots. That team should be a mid 80s win team+, and I think that plan going forward sets us up big time going down the road.

by Navi's_Navy on Sep 8, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Adam Wainwright?

With Dave Duncan?

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Dave wants out, hard

If he was their boy they would have left Chrissy alone instead of being so mean to him.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Josh Johnson (not the QB)

Marlins aren’t going to extend him and they looooove prospects

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Bossssss

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was dealign Kaz a sign of things to come

or will he be the only high paid guy to leave the Rays? The article indicates we have to part with other pieces (young pieces). Is he referencing minor league guys, or young talent like Beej, Brignac etc.

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

guys like Niemann/Davis/Brignac probably

beej isn’t going. His percieved value is just too low right now.

by Navi's_Navy on Sep 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wouldn't trade them, but how could you?

easy..

AF: Hey, Seattle, want to give me Fgut for teh corner outfield? We’ll give you Briggy and Aneury.

Seatle: Surely

by Navi's_Navy on Sep 8, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Define "reload"
With the collapse, the Rays have to wonder what could have been. There is no doubt that this is a talented team that they put together, with both tremendous ability and depth at most positions.

Other than maybe payroll implications, given the above statement, why the pressing need to reload? This is/was a team with the talent to make the playoffs, it just didn’t happen this year. Other than catcher, there is no obvious hole for significant improvement.

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Sep 8, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

First 3/4 of DH production

Though we arent moving PtB unless Al Davis ventures over to the MLB side of things

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

His peripherals bely his actual contribution.

You keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it just never seems to.

by rglass44 on Sep 8, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

.341 Babip with a .274 average against is pretty crazy

4.05 K:BB is pretty awesome, 3.55 FIP on the year is cool, 62.1% LOB explains ERA difference, having actual fielders on the field would be nice for him for once. 11.4% HR/FB is right in line with what you would expect, not sure which shoe you are waiting to drop, but he seems dynamite in front of horrible defenders.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I mean.

He seems like he should be better, but guys score on him. Maybe these guys are just prone to bad innings or something. I don’t know, but sometimes it seems pitchers fare better/worse than the peripherals. Now we wait for the peripherals or the results to change.

by rglass44 on Sep 8, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your Sonny reference makes more sense when you put it like that

I was at a game that he shut us down for 7. I just think a big part is that his defense is pretty terrible all over.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 8, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably.

That ballpark and the NL probably help too, though.

by rglass44 on Sep 8, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rocco for Nolasco!

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Sep 8, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rocco for Howard & Myers!

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Sep 8, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why all the talk about acquiring another starter?

Granted Sonny has pitched his way out of the conversation, but we do have tons of quality depth at the position for years to come.

OTOH my worry is that there is really no place where the team can truly upgrade. I guess we can use a catcher and/or DH. But every other position is pretty darn good. Pitching wise our starting 5 should match up with anyone. Moving any starter is either a marginal upgrade at best or a sacrifice of potential. And of course we have bullpen issues this year, but MLB bullpens have historically been highly volatile. There really is no quick fix for that (esp cheaply).

So I think the only real way we improve next year is by better managing and more consistency. We can’t get swept in a 4 game series against a last place team for example.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

You can always improve.

We have a lot of depth at SP, but no elite talent (at least not yet). I think that is what people are saying we could address, not trying to go out and just get a “good starter.”

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have a solid #2 in Shields

A solid #3 in Garza
A solid #4 in Niemann
A solid #5 in Davis

If Price can live up to his billing and become our ace next year we are in great shape, but it worries me that our “#1” is always facing another teams Ace and so on down the line.

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

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