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Just Call Him Average Willy Aybar

Tampa Bay Rays' Willy Aybar reacts after crossing the plate following a solo home run in the fifth inning of a baseball game against the Los Angeles Angels in St. Petersburg, Fla., Wednesday, June 10, 2009. The Rays won 9-5. (AP Photo/Reinhold Matay)

by Reinhold Matay - AP

5 months ago: Tampa Bay Rays' Willy Aybar reacts after crossing the plate following a solo home run in the fifth inning of a baseball game against the Los Angeles Angels in St. Petersburg, Fla., Wednesday, June 10, 2009. The Rays won 9-5. (AP Photo/Reinhold Matay)

Less than 12 months ago Willy Aybar was crowned by Dave Cameron, as well as many others, the BBIMLB or the best backup in Major League Baseball. And who could really argue with that. At the time Aybar was 25 and coming off a 2008 season in which he hit .253/.327/.410 in 362 PA. He was worth a 1.4 WAR and his production was valued at $6.3 million dollars while earning near league minimum.

Defensively, he filled in admirably at first base when Carlos Pena broke his hand after he was hit by a pitch (Pattern? Trend? ), and then did the same across the diamond at third when Evan Longoria also broke a bone in his arm on a HBP. He even played well in limited time at second base which led some to think out loud about him replacing Akinori Iwamura full-time after this season.

Flash forward to present day and Aybar is no longer regarded at the BBIMLB. In fact, some "casual fans," as Stu Sternberg would say, have even called for Aybar's head. Offensively, Aybar remains steady and has hit .252/.338/.420 in 261 PA. He continues to hit left handed pitching well to the tune of .244/.351/.476. However, it's the defense that has people up in arms about the man acquired for Jeff Ridgway.

Star-divide

Whether you look at the above average numbers of 2008 or the below average numbers of 2009, remember they are both small sample sizes.

2008

G

Innings

UZR

UZR/150

1B

19

155

2.3

19

2B

10

70.2

0.5

11.4

3B

41

358.1

2.4

8.1

 

2009

G

Innings

UZR

UZR/150

1B

11

66

-0.1

-1.7

2B

28

139.1

-3.8

-22.9

3B

15

105

-1.1

-7.9

To get a better understanding, here are his career numbers. Still small sample, but larger compared to the individual seasons

Career

G

Innings

UZR

UZR/150

1B

30

221

2.1

13.2

2B

59

331.2

-1.7

-5.2

3B

137

1093

-0.9

-1

The sample size at third base is almost a full season and Aybar is slightly below average at the hot corner. This leads me to believe that the numbers at first base are probably a good indication of his talent level on that side of the diamond since it is the easier of the two. While the second base sample is still small, the addition of Sean Rodriguez and the emergence of Ben Zobrist makes the Aybar at second base talks unnecessary. Sure, he can still fill in short increments at the keystone, but there's no need to give him extended time given the other (better) options available.

Despite better offensive numbers, Aybar's spotty defense has his WAR at 0.2 this season. With the injury to Pena, I would expect him to get some more burn at first base to end the season. Assuming he will play average defense and hit like he has, he will probably end the season being worth $1.0-1.5 million. With a salary of $975k, Aybar remains a valuable asset. In 2010, his salary jumps to $1.35 million. If Aybar is worth a 0.5-1.0 WAR in 2010, he'll cover that easily. Assuming his experimentation at second base is over and he sticks to playing the corner infield, his defense should not be an issue going forward.

No longer is Aybar baseball's best kept secret. Once Sean Rodriguez gets called up, he most likely won't even be the team's best bench player anymore. But don't be fooled, he is still valuable. TThere is a chance that Gabe Gross won't be around next season. Should that happen, Aybar will gain another distinction; the most average player on the Tampa Bay Rays.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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Should give the same deal to Zobrist.

He might take the financial security since he isn’t even arb1 until after 2010

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Sep 9, 2009 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking about this the other day

It would be nice to get him to a locked in rate, but you still have to have doubts on Zobie. He’s not a 7 WAR guy, but if he settles in around 4-5, with all the position he plays, it could cost us quite a bit in Arb

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea having the extra year of team control helps

You could see how he starts off 2010 and they try and get something done before arbitration or you could just go year to year like Cards are going to do with Ryan Ludwick.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Sep 9, 2009 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Why would they?

He’s cost-controlled through his prime years. then you trade him away when he goes arb2.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know.

I just didn’t know who I should reply to.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DH/RF platoon

In fact wish we had him and Hinske over what our replacements are and look at the payroll

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hindsight is 20/20.

Let’s see your past opinions on Gomes.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love Gomes

But he didn’t do anything in 2007 or 2008 in a platoon role. He’s playing in a hitter friendly park in the NL Central. I’m glad to see him doing well and I hope he gets a full time gig there, but I doubt he puts up the same numbers in the AL East.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Sep 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

You rang?

Because you are a joke?
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 26, 2008 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
taking a username to honor a stiff is laughable
by sternfan1 on Aug 26, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

funny i see you here at every game are you boycotting since Johnny went down?
Has he gone above the ‘mendoza’ at AAA?
by sternfan1 on Aug 26, 2008 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

crickets

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As per usual...

probably get the same response on my post below.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch

Yet people still debate him as if he’s rational and intellectually honest.

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Sep 9, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its a guilty pleasure

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He does make himself a very tempting target

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Sep 9, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, infatuated would mean, he only considered defense

He looks at the total player. You are infatuated with offense.
With a bad defensive team, you would blame the pitching even more

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the ALE you have to score runs CONSISTENTLY

and i was speaking more of the DH rather than position

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, because Boston's awful defense hasn't hurt them one bit.

And Texas & Detroit’s defenses haven’t helped them one bit.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they aren't a bad offensive platoon

since when is .340 woba so horrendous? Its not like Gabe Kapler had some unlucky babip given his average to above-average speed and ridiculous line drive rate…

by Navi's_Navy on Sep 9, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense is cheap.

How can you say a +11/-6 player is more valuable than a +.4/5.5 player?

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

B....but he doesn't walk anybody.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Sep 9, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You complain about our strikeouts all the time.

Once Gomes’ BABIP regresses you won’t miss him one bit.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Rays fan--you learn to live with it

AF doesn’t put a premium on contact hitters

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still not as high as his :)%

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Sep 9, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOVE PENA

Pena’s game has diminished about as quickly
by Raymondo on Aug 2, 2009 2:50 PM PDT on The Rays Offense

For various reasons
by Raymondo on Jul 30, 2009 10:12 AM PDT on Getting Defensive About the Offense on DRaysBay
I’m concerned with Pena, Burrell and Upton ever achieving near career high numbers again

Package Pena and Burrell for anything that walks
by Raymondo on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 AM PDT on Should The Rays Trade Carlos Pena? on DRaysBay

it’s more than two weeks, and i’m very concerned
by Raymondo on Jul 23, 2009 4:37 AM PDT on Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee?
about Upton. Longoria and Pena

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol lol lol

I love this game.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NEVER!!!

I think we scared him off. Facts and accountability usually do.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have fun FreeZo

After RJ leaves DRB will fall quicker than the Rays in September

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except for RJ and FreeZo, there's nobody who's worth reading

i’ll probably monitor and comment on FreeZo’s minor league stuff, but other than that, i’m pretty much going to move on

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't enjoy my comments?

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You stopped defending him

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You stopped posting probably

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be.

He doesn’t even appreciate my comments though?

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be it....

Cent Anni
by Raymondo on Dec 31, 2008 10:26 AM EST on New Year’s Eve Open Thread on DRaysBay

Long live the Rays and this cite glass you are quickly establishing yourself as a top writer on this blog

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lulz

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So lose RJ, but also lose raymondo?

It almost evens itself out.

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Sep 9, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait... what?

“I’m wrong… quick… ummm… I need something… ummm… YOU STINK!”

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait...I'll still be here...

FreeZo and RJ are the heart and soul of DRays Bay
by sternfan1 on Aug 31, 2009 7:40 PM PDT on DRaysBay Community Guidelines on DRaysBay
I may give them some shit from time to time but truly value their insights

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you mean?

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wait... wait

Did you just admit to trolling?

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

banning--what a childish excersize

and what makes it funny, moderators can attack me personally but when i snap back i’m gone

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I been ban'd like 10 times more than you

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you ever have a ban SRO fanpost?

and do you know the post that did it?

after Game 4 of the WS i posted ‘great season, see you in Port Charlotte’

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was a collection of you being a negative nancy

and can you type my name right? Q and O are different sides of the keyboard

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prob not the best day for your schtick

Granted there were others frustrated, but you have built a reputation.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alex in Hudson Valley?

So far so good, I try to remain patient until full season ball.

I’m really enjoying the good seasons by Oliveros and Phillips as retread projects. Love a good underdog story. Ways away from amounting to anything ever, but I’d love to see them become bullpen arms.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 9, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is you do not follow the spirit of the site.

You never argue rationally. You bait. You provide little of import. You do, however, provide SOME entertainment value, and you are generally a good sport. Your act wears thin at times, and that pisses people off. The fact that you haven’t been permabanned is a testament to the patience of the mods and to their respect for your tenure.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i have tried to stay away from GDT

mainly cause i don’t own a laptop

also cause the comments sound pretty lame and OT

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, you have to understand that when freezo and I come at you...

It isn’t personal. It’s because we feel the remarks you make are entirely offbase or contradict things you’ve said in the past.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries mine is personal

(joking)

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think

raymondo/sternfans negativity brings out good arguements from other posters, hes like the resident conservative republican, so in a backwards kind of way hes needed for good arguements sake, i dont post much but i read most posts and mostly the back and forth is hilarious

by Toe Finch on Sep 9, 2009 5:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

"banning--what a childish excersize"

says the master baiter

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Sep 9, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you are a troll from Strongville

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't follow sorry.

Try to stay on topic

Swav or Die (>'-')> <('-')> <('-'<)
For the lulz

by SRQman on Sep 9, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's pretty meh I think.

It’s early, and he could be decent.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the RF platoon is Joyce and Perez

That’s still a + defensive platoon. Long gone are the days of a Norton/Wigginton RF.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Sep 9, 2009 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

In hindsight Gomes would have been preferred over PtB

But then again Aybar taking more DH ABs would have been nice too…

I also still think Aybar should be playing more for Pena against LHP

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Based on results, not processes.

Gomes’ true talent level as a full time player isn’t this high. Burrell’s isn’t this low.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wat

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For one, Gomes is still in his cost control years, so their costs are obviously going to differ.

For two, park-adjusted wRAA over the prior three seasons
Gomes:
-3.1
3.6
-3.6

Burrell
22.2
28.4
22.4

Even if you deduct some runs for AL and DH adjustment, Burrell is still worth about 5-7 million more than Gomes.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, might be more.

-3.1 runs average (not weighted, mind you)
24.3 runs average (again, not weighted)

That’s 27 runs. 2.7 wins, or 12 million more based on bat alone.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately the production of the previous 3 years didn't come close to matching the production of 2009

But I’ll play along… (2006-2008)

Gomes vs LHP .895 OPS
Aybar vs RHP .723 OPS

Burrell vs L/RHP .889

So overall Pat has done a bit better than what that platoon would have done. Never mind the fact that right now we could be using Zobrist/Aki/Gross vs RHP (as some combo of RF/DH/2B) so the platoon DH OPS would even be higher.

Of course PtB is vastly more expensive than that platoon while also being older compared to players around their prime.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not in this case

The players would have other roles; esp Aybar. I’m not sure how you can say Gomes and Aybar compared to PtB and Aybar is much different flexibility wise. It seems to me that they’d both give close to the same flexibility.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also I think the platoon in RF has hurt more than helped this year

Before you bash hear me out….

The players themselves have done just fine in their role. The problem is the roster constraint it has put us in. Numerous times we need a PR or PH in a very very key situation. Instead of doing that we just trotted out our typical guys or allowed a turtle to run the bases.

Now of course if Maddon/Friedman didnt’ carry 234023904239090 pitchers (with 234023904239083 being crappy ones this wouldn’t be much of an issue…

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The platoon is fine.

Carrying two LOOGY is unacceptable and foolish.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Having both is a disaster on the roster

I’m okay with having one ‘inefficient’ type set up because the cumulative result on that particular position can be a net positive. However once you have a couple of those set ups those particular positions may still work out, but there may be a net drain elsewhere on the squad.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

LOOGY is about the most marginal of value that exists on a baseball team.
Platooning two cheap players in RF to make a ~3-4 WAR contribution isn’t a disaster at all.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll repeat what I said;

Having both is a disaster on the roster

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I said having two LOOGY is unacceptable.

This has nothing to do with the platoon. We would carry four outfielders anyway.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The more specialists you have the less flexibility you'll have on the roster

Platoons are fine, as long as you have the roster flexibility. If you had unlimited roster space then you’d platoon virtually everybody in some form. We had too many specialists on this team, which caused problems. I’m all for some specialists, and on this team the RF platoon would have been my #1 choice. However that doesn’t change the fact that we had too many specialists and the RF platoon was certainly a part of that problem.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He wants to platoon DH, but not right field.

So, when Aybar DHs, you need an extra infielder in case Zobrist or Evan or Pena get hurt. But doesn’t want to carry four outfielders because lord forbid you platoon a defensive position.

He didn’t think this one through.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow you are having a major struggle today

When did I say I didn’t want to carry 4 OFers. Of course I’d want to carry 4 OFers. Where did you get that?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus Christ, dude.

If you have no problem carrying 4 OFs, then a RF platoon is not a problem.

by Suttree on Sep 9, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll repeat again...

Having both is a disaster on the roster

The key word is both. Having 4 players play the role of 2 players is a drain on the roster. As I said teams can get by with 2 playing the role of 1, but not 4 playing the role of 2.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is your point?

Of course having two LOOGYS is a dumb idea. Having two sets of specialists is also a dumb idea. As I said, the set I’d get rid of is the LOOGY pair. However that doesn’t change the fact that having two sets severely limits your roster.

What is so hard to understand?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOBODY IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT POINT, YET YOU STILL BRING IT UP.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody was arguing against the Gabe platoon yet you keep bringing it up?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You want a DH platoon...

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want maximum roster flexibility

Platoons that do not take away that flexibility is ideal. It is not different than platooning catchers.

Again what I am talking about is having 2 players take the role of 1 player. Platooning is great, especially when you aren’t in the 2 players for the 1 player role. Gomes and Aybar wouldn’t fit that bill since Aybar could and would still play all over the field. Compare that to the Gabes which is essentially a 2 men for 1 spot deal. I’m not against that as long as you only have 1 such scenario on your roster. Gomes/Aybar doesn’t come close to that because Aybar would still be playing the field quite a bit. Gomes and Burrell as a DH platoon is comparable roster limitation wise to Gross/Kapler. Aybar/Gomes isn’t even similar.

Comprende?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kapler can play LF and CF, your argument is invalid.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are kidding right?

BJ Upton is the full time CF. If you are really comparing Kapler’s playing time in CF for BJ Upton to Aybar playing 3B, 2B, and 1B then I have no idea what to tell you. It is night and day difference.

This is really becoming frustrating. How can you not see having multiple specialized players on one roster could possibly cause flexibility issues? Then somehow you are attempting to use the argument that keeping one of our most flexible players on the roster, Aybar, would also cause that problem.

I mean come on. Why argue for the sake of arguing? I’m just saying the sky is blue and you are trying to argue to say it is red.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are kidding right?

Evan Longoria is the full time 3B. If you are really comparing Aybar’s playing time at 3B for Evan Longoria to Kapler playing LF, CF, and RF then I have no idea what to tell you. It is night and day difference.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to make a guess but I'll predict Aybar has quite a bit more innings at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd than Kapler does in left and center.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pena is our starting 1B.

Zobrist is our starting 2B.

THEY ARE FULL TIME STARTERS, IT IS NIGHT AND DAY

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

Do you feel the need to be a constant troll? It would be nice if you contributed once in awhile.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

God dammit Matthan, I applaud you

DRB troll of the year.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I’m just glad I’m actually aware of the fact that Aybar is used in a slightly more flexible manner than Kapler. I’d rather be hated than be a total idiot.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aybar. 2B.

lol

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Aybar can't play 2B now?

I thought it was DRaysBay contention that he could play 2B pretty competently?

Why do I get the feeling if I said Aybar cant play 2B that I’d get bashed for it?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Career -5 runs at 2B

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our platoon = four outfielders.

With your DH platoon you need another infielder most days. This isn’t hard to understand.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zobrist plays IF and OF. Brignac would also be up.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And this is the LOOGYS fault more than the 4th OF

especially with Zo able to swing out there

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 10, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It has everything to do with the platoon

More specialists = less flexibility

Some specialists are fine, but when you have too many you become way too restricted.

The RF platoon would have been okay if we didn’t have two LOOGYS, just like two LOOGYS would have been far less damaging (still stupid) if we didn’t have the RF platoon. With both we ended up having zero flexibility. We could PH anyone good at the proper time and we had absolutely zero speed off the bench.

And the four OF isn’t comparable to other teams because two of the players essentially make up the exact same player. If you had Kapler PH or PR for someone other than Gross then you are opening yourself up for a severe problem with Gross (or vice versa). This year we used up our entire bench far too often and ended up with matchups that weren’t very great because of it.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't, not could

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And again.

With Aybar/Gomes instead of Burrell, who plays second if Zobrist gets hurt? You lose the DH or someone not trained takes over.

With the RF platoon and Burrell at least you have your bases covered in case of injury.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditch a LOOGY, swap PtB for Gomes, and enter Brignac

Not very hard….

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just by doing this the team would have vastly more flexibility

We’d be able to PR and PH far more effectively.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to get on your high horse then by all means do so.

But you still haven’t addressed the reserve middle infield position when Aybar plays.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus Christ.

NOBODY IS ARGUING WE SHOULD HAVE TWO LOOGY STOP BEING HARD-HEADED AND READ WHAT I SAID.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No wonder people find it absolutely senseless to comment in your threads.

You make up the rules as you go.

You said having two LOOGY is pointless, I agreed. Then you said having two RF and two LOOGY is pointless. I disagreed because you have to carry four OF anyways.

For some reason you went on a rant about Aybar/Gomes at DH instead of Burrell. Does this mean Gomes is your 4th OF? And if so, who is on days he DHs?

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm talking about havnig multiple specialists causing a drain on the roster

It doesn’t matter of the two positions would be RF and LOOGY or RF and 2B or LF and 3B. Having two ‘platoons’ causes a severe strain. That is what I am saying. You are saying that having a platoon can be good. Well no shit. If there were no roster limitations they’d platoon everybody. Unfortunately there ARE roster limitations. At some point having platoons, while it may be good for that particular position, causes other problems on the roster.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I've been saying is a team with multiple specialists causes a drain on the roster

What is so hard to understand about that? I’ve clearly said having 1 platoon can work, but having 2 cannot.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a figure of speech. I'm talking about two players doing the role of 1 roster spot

I don’t care which position.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I know this is a homer blog...but you should be able to take a neutral point of view once in awhile

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This really pisses me off.

I haven’t put in three years for nothing monetary in return so people can trash what I’ve helped build in front of me.

If you hate it so much then leave or take up your issues with me. Otherwise you’re simply being a prick.

Seriously.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate it. Homers exist everywhere.

I’m just not a homer. When the Rays screw up then I’ll say so. If any poster is unable to do that then the issue is with them, not me.

Honestly I’m not sure why you’ve gotten on my case here. I simply said there would have been a better and more efficient way to construct this roster. Then you suddenly bash me for it. What for?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because you aren't reading a damn thing I write.

I’M AGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE LOOGY. You don’t seem to comprehend that.

Then you turn around and start implying I’m dumb or ignorant by AGREEING with you.

Let me steal something from your book

“Social skills…not hard to get.”

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point was simply that I’d never ever have 2 sets of specialists. Simple as that. Yes I’d rather do the RF platoon than the LOOGY thing. However I’d rather do the LOOGY thing than be stuck with both the RF and LOOGY platoon. My point is 1 set of specialists is always superior to two. Of course we’d all want to get rid of the worse of the two.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

Which is why I kept on repeating the “Having BOTH is a disaster”. You kept on bringing up the RF platoon was fine; however that was never my point. My point was always that both was very bad on the roster.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point on the RF platoon is that we were carrying four OFers anyways.

So the platoon had no bearing on what the roster layout looks like.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I was saying that isn't technically the case

Because Gross and Kapler are essentially specialists. You cannot have them both in the game at the same time. So it isn’t like having a traditional 4th OF.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And don't you think that is a major problem?

Gross who cannot hit lefties and Kapler who cannot hit righties in the game at the same time? Don’t you think that causes a bit of a problem?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if they weren't a platoon

You still carry another righty outfielder.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're still not arguing with anyone.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's amazing that he thinks I don't understand what his argument is

So that even when I say I’m agreeing with him, he restates it. Again.

Wow.

My heavens.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Officially worse than sternmondo?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then why did you go off on your RF tangent?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CARRYING FOUR OFERS

WE WERE CARRYING 4, WE ALWAYS CARRY AT LEAST 4

GAAAAAAH

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you realize Gross and Kapler have severe splits?

If a lefty comes up you have to bring in Kapler. If a righty comes up you have to bring in Gross. You are using two roster spots on RF. Neither of them are backing up any other spots because they have to be used for RF every single game. And again that is okay, as long as every other roster spot is extremely flexible.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You realize Zobrist is an emergency OF as well, right?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ding ding ding

(flexible roster spots are good)

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

....k, who plays 2B against Leftires in the Aybar DH scenario?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And shawn riggans!

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well since it is now okay to play Kapler and Gross together we might as well start playing Riggans and Navi together

Heck throw Hernandez in there too. Who cares about splits?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fuck are you talking about?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you condone having a sport for both a L and a R OOGY?

They’re both specialists!

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And honestly this isn't rocket science

Anyone that understands 5th grade math and baseball would know that using multiple roster spots to essentially fill the same ‘position’ is going to cause constraints elsewhere on the roster. This isn’t groundbreaking. I was just pointing out this was a problem with the Rays this year. I’m sure RJ realizes that there is finite space on the roster. It just seems like he is arguing for the sake of arguing.

Afterall if there is no consequence to a platoon then lets just platoon every position. But we all know there is a consequence: the roster spot. I’m not sure why this is a tough concept…

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HE'S NOT ARGUING ABOUT THAT. STOP BEING STUPID.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Sep 9, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really are a pompous asshole.

Congratulations. For the first time in a long while I will not be reading comments on this site tomorrow.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh noes

Embrace Eternity

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We generally have had switch hitting Willie available on the bench to hit

We haven’t needed more than 1 PH and we always had the counter handed Gabe if need be.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Sep 10, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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