Next Years Pen; Fill in the blanks.
The Ray’s bullpen has been discussed at great lengths on this site and on (cringe) local talk radio lately, with many fans expressing concerns about the high leverage relievers in our bullpen.
This is no doubt a reaction to the string of late inning losses over the last few weeks, and that is understandable. Most people watch sports and have a very visceral reaction to a pitcher standing on the mound while the other team hopes around on home plate. This ability to invoke deep positive and negative sentiment in a fan base is what makes sports enjoyable and frankly, profitable.
But as a fan, or at least someone who wants to see there team become/remain competitive, we know that one should hope the managers of an organization act in a completely objective manner. This is not a new mindset for many of the readers and the curators of this site, but it has to be reinforced from time to time. Consider Billy Beane, notorious for having a bad temper, refuses to watch A’s games, fearing it would affect his objectivity. Good for him.
Refusing to react with emotion and whim often puts coaches and management at constant odds with its casual fan base. A typical fan, while slowing becoming more educated, often makes judgments based on observations in situations of high leverage (when it hurts the most), and uses small sample size. Egged on, no doubt, by local sports writers (who do the same), this leads to the types of negative reactions running wild amongst our fellow Rays fans. But they are not the enemy, (Kevin Youkilis and Jerry Bruckheimer are.)
So, my rant, redundant to most who read this site, leads me to the following: As we look forward to the next season, the two big areas that should be evaluated are the catcher and the bullpen. But a good to great bullpen, or at least the foundation for a great bullpen, exists. So after a rough few weeks, here is an update on the overall 2009 picture of guys that will be pitching for us next year:
JP Howell:
WAR: 1.1 WAR Value: $4.9MM FIP: 3.67 K/BB: 2.54
Not doubt, most of our fans see only the 5 losses and 8 blown saves and decide they want to ship Howell back to the Royals and bring in someone like Bobby Jenks or Brian Fuentes. Both, historically, very good relief pitchers, with a lot of saves, but not nearly as valuable as Howell this year, in what some are now calling an awful year.
Jenks: WAR .6 WAR Value: $2.7MM FIP: 4.10
Fuentes: WAR .2 WAR Value: $1.1MM FIP: 4.50
By the way, the list goes on (We could have brought in Fransisco Rodriguez, JJ Putz, Kerry Wood.)
Gant Balfour:
WAR: 1.0 WAR Value: $4.5MM FIP: 3.49 K/BB: 2.07
Grant has been really good this year. In terms of value, certainly in the top 25 for relief pitchers. I’ll take that same pitcher next year. I don’t think anyone expected an FIP of 2.22 again.
WAR: 0.6 WAR Value: $2.8MM FIP: 3.86 K/BB: 1.75
Taking into account his lefty/righty splits, Cormier should be used in more high leverage situations next year. The season he is having this year is not the statistical anomaly one would think when you separate his career relief appearances from his days as a starter/spot starter.
These 3 make a cheap and solid, if not great, foundation to start next year. All who can be still used as a “closer” depending on the situation.
This leave four/five more spots:
- One year we don’t need a LOOGY the next we need 3. The hope is we keep one next year.
-
Thayer should get a look, probably Sonny as well.
Considering salary, who could you see filling 3 spots in our pen via trade or Free Agency?
1 recs |
24 comments
Comments
Also, Broxton is a beast.
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really want to stab anyone in the eye who thinks that Howell isn't any good.
I just might.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
by kericr on Sep 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well you have to pencil Wheeler in there too.
by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not certain he won't be traded.
Teams will be more willing to take on 1 year of Wheeler.
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Talbot, Thayer, LOOGY, Wheeler?
There is no way that CWS don’t pick up Thornton’s option, but I would love that guy on this team. THIS might be the best bang for the buck out of the bullpen among guys past their cost control period.
Matt Thornton lhp
3 years/$3.25M (2007-09), plus 2010-11 club options
* 3 years/$3.25M (2007-09), plus 2010-11 club options
o signed extension with White Sox 4/07, replacing 1 year/$0.425M deal signed 2/07
o 07:$0.55M, 08:$0.875M, 09:$1.325M, 10:$2.25M club option ($0.25M buyout), 11:$3M club option ($0.25M buyout)
* 1 year/$0.355M (2006)
o acquired by White Sox in trade from Seattle 3/06
* 1 year/$0.323M (2005) (Seattle)
* drafted by Seattle 1998 (1-22) (Grand Valley State)
* ML service: 4.129
I also wouldn’t mind throwing 5M at Scott Downs. I think we can bring in all the marginal/fringy guys we want on the cheap in ST and get 1-2 that way, but at some point we need to think about paying 1WAR money for a 1+ WAR reliever. We don’t have many places to improve, but having another great arm in the pen is a good place to start.
Embrace Eternity
by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And to clarify
I would rather overpay for one year on a reliever than to save money with a 3-4 year contract.
Embrace Eternity
by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 9, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what would thay want for him?
Worth 2.1 WAR in 09; 1.9 in ’08.
They absolutly pick up the option.
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, how does WPA differ from WAR?
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WPA is contextual.
So, if Balfour comes in with a 1-0 lead, that situation will count for more (either good or bad) than if he were to enter with a 10-0 lead.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Thanks.
"There is a great need for sarcasm font."
by davelrogers on Sep 9, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless there's a trade for a cost-controlled reliever
I suspect that the holes will be filled in-house. There’s too much talent in AAA not to do so.
That said, there’s still a whole bunch of less good pitchers who are under contract for next year, and this front office has been very loath to give anyone away for free, even if they stink. I wouldn’t be too surprised if a few of those guys are still on the roster to start the year as they try to unload them on someone rather than getting stuck paying their full salaries.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Sep 9, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Talbot + Sonny are two instant bullpen upgrades
Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.
by matthan on Sep 9, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Talbot is healthy
And if he’s as good as some here have touted to be. I have my doubts. His numbers in the minors aren’t really any better than Hammel’s or Stokes’, and while they’ve both eventually turned out to be servicable major leaguers, they both sucked in their early years.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Sep 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this isn't really on topic
but if anyone (Royals?) actually signs Percival is a Type A free agent and Bradford is Type B:)
1. James Shields 2. Wade Davis 3. Matt Garza 4. David Price 5. Jeff Niemann
by joeybw on Sep 9, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Something is wrong with the system if Percy is a Type A
by td32 on Sep 9, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darren Oliver was a Type-A last off-season.
The system depends on stats that most teams don’t value for relievers.
by R.J. Anderson on Sep 9, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot the very obvious issue
I could live with Bradford, I guess but what if offer arby to Percy and he accepts? I never want him on the team again.
1. James Shields 2. Wade Davis 3. Matt Garza 4. David Price 5. Jeff Niemann
by joeybw on Sep 9, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we even offer arbitration to Percival?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Sep 9, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And guarantee him 80% of $4.45 MM for 2010 if he accepts?
Can you see AF doing that?
by nyyfaninlaaland on Sep 10, 2009 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you get this?
I don’t recall the projection showing Percy as an A -and a big part of those ranks is based on playing time over the last 2 seasons. That alone will drop Percival, and possibly Bradford as well.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Sep 10, 2009 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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