Report: Tampa Bay Rays Have Contacted Designated Hitter Jim Thome
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 17, 2010 4:35 PM EST
Email
PrintThe Rays have always said they're open to anything. This would qualify as anything.
Jim Thome turns 40 in late-August and bats lefty while spending time with the White Sox and Dodgers. There's no need to overstate this: he's a hitter. Either as a DH or substitute bat, Thome goes as his bat does. Despite his age, he can still hit. Over the last three seasons has posted wOBA of .367, .370, and .410 while playing nearly full-time. Against righties his line is .274/.402/.551. Reread that slash line. Those need to be adjusted a bit, since he played in hitter parks and not against the American League East, but that's still pretty impressive.
As best as I can tell, there's four roster layouts the Rays can use:
A. 1 DH, 2 MIF, 12 P
B. 2 DH, 1 MIF, 12 P
C. 2 DH, 2 MIF, 11 P
D. 1 DH, 2 MIF, 11 P, X 1B/COF
(The last layout would include Dan Johnson, or whomever, as the 14th bench player.)
Take Thome versus righties and add it to Burrell versus lefties (.249/.391/.457) and you have one heck of a DH platoon. There are some concerns though.
1. No reserve shortstop
I literally just wrote about this last week. With Thome on board, the Rays would have Ben Zobrist as the back-up shortstop. An injury to Jason Bartlett means Reid Brignac is on the first thing going 60+MPH towards St. Petersburg anyways, but that would prove to be inconvenient on scheduled off-days. This would also make Willy Aybar the reserve first, second, and third baseman.
2. Burrell's salary
You can't really worry about this anymore. If he's on the Rays roster and not traded, then he's getting the money. It's a sunk cost. He's probably going to bounce back, but Thome + Burrell adds more value than Burrell + a back-up shortstop. The 13th positional player on this roster just isn't getting that much time, no matter who it is.
3. Thome's salary
Here's where things get tricky. One has to figure Thome wants a bit more than league minimum. If he were to provide 90% of his .953 OPS through, say, 450 plate appearances, he would be worth nearly two wins offensively. Without breaking out a spreadsheet or calculator, let's just say he probably adds wins 95 and 96, which is insanely valuable in this division. That allows the Rays to pay more than market value for those wins, but frankly I'm not sure they'd have to since nobody else is willing to pay a lot for DH types.
4. Dugout jokes
These are worth something, right?
MANNY ASKED OL JIMMERS IF I WAS GONNA GROW CORNROWS IN HOLLYWOOD BUT I HAVEN'T WORKED ON THE FARM SINCE I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL
WHY IS J.P. HOWELS WARMING UP ON THE ISLAND FROM THE LOSTS?
I LIKE TRIPS TO TAMPA A LOT BETTER SINCE THE DEVIL LEFT TOWN *CHORTLE*
With all the said, having two DH on one roster seems so wasteful and inefficient. But again, the price might be too good to pass up. There are other questions to tackle too. How will Thome's bat translate to the ALE? Is there any reason to believe his lackluster second half is a sign of things to come? Does he still have good bat speed? And so on. If the Rays have some interest, I would trust they've done due diligence.
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There's also an Aybar/Thome version of the platoon with Rodriguez staying.
But I’m not sure how feasible releasing/trading Burrell is.
Trading Burrell is impossible
Think of this, the Red Sox had to eat 9M of Lowell’s salary to trade him to the Rangers for an average prospect. Burrell is dead weight unfortunately since releasing him is bad financial sense.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
I have always dreaded the sight of Thome at bat for the other team
That must mean something.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
Thome and Burrell
are pretty much the exact same type of hitter, only from opposite sides of the plate.
Power hitters who K a ton and walk a ton. What you people like to call “three true outcomes” types.
I love it. Thome's a man's man Get him Andrew
Much of what the Rays are doing is pointing to 11 pitchers, at least at the start
Well
going with an 11 man staff is what most teams should do.
All the credit to the Rays if they do.
RJ speaks of a roster with 2 DH’s being an inefficient roster…a roster with 12 pitchers on it, in my opinion, is an inefficient roster. The role of “lefty specialist” is woefully overrated, and teams would be much better off going for pitchers who can, you know, get both righties and lefties out.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 17, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Specialists are undervalued by the market.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 17, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
And just to add further clarification, a budget-minded team places a heavy priority on undervalued assets.
The concept of Jim Thome signing is a clear manifestation of acquiring an undervalued asset, since Thome appears to be able to hit yet has no takers in the market.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Not quite sure I understand this
how is a type of pitcher who’s only useful against certain hitters “undervalued”?
I’m sure it’s possible, I just don’t see how.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 18, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
They're cheaper than they should be to acquire.
You can find above average hand specialists for nothing. See: Cormier, Swindle, etc.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 18, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
True
my whole problem with the concept is how their use is very limited. I dunno…I’ve never been fond of the lefty specialist concept.
Many relievers in general can come cheap and be above average.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 18, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
From another perspective
Let’s say a left-handed specialist is worth 1$ and you can get him for .50$, does that mean you want him taking up a roster spot over someone worth 5$ who you paid 4$ for just because the percentage discount was greater?
by staplemaniac on Jan 19, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
.336/.252/.588
I suppose one could define that as “sucking”.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 17, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
.336 OBP
.252 SLG
.588 OPS
I apologize for the lack of clarification, but generally a BA/OBP split will not have a -88 BA to OBP differential. That would take an incredible amount of impatience at the plate.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 17, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Burrell didn't have an OPS vs. lefties lower then .950 for the 2005,2006,2007, or 2008 seasons.
Do you think his 2010 performance versus lefties will be more like those four years, or 2009?
If that was the logic we were relying on
Then nobody would be worrying about trading Burrell or finding a platoon partner or anything else. Until last year, he was good. Last year, he was bad. There’s a fear that the drop in performance is real.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
My point has always been that the fear has been greatly exaggerated.
He was projected to fall last year, he’s getting around that age where his performance starts to drop off, and he switched leagues, and he went from playing the field to DH work. But even within the scope of that analysis, his poor performance is still an outlier. Even the most radical of declines don’t see players going from all-stars to afterthoughts overnight.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Ensberg
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jan 18, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Richie Sexson, Mo Vaughn, countless others that you don't remember because they fell off
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Mo Vaughn didn't exactly have the type of form
that was bound to age well.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 18, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Of course, but to say that Morgan Ensberg is the only guy to fall off the map in his early 30's is ruhtarded
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
No
you would be the one that is retarted
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Well, this pretty much decimates my point.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Where did I say that?
Stern was implying Burrell sucked against lefties in 2009.
All I did was provide the numerical proof.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 18, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
The most important one though
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
In 2008 Cliff Floyd was platooned as DH I believe.
Thome could also become the Rays new “veteren leader” type player. Maby he could even straighten out Burrell’s attitude and problems.
Burrell has attitude and problems?
/Shocking
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
He's a cock sucker by most accounts.
That said, Thome is irrelevant to that discussion. Nobody’s going to change Pat Burrell’s attitude in his 30s.
[citation needed]
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jan 17, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
here
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jan 18, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sources inside the clubhouse and inside the front office.
I’d mention the stories, but I’d get the whole,“This isn’t fact thing.”
Thome's bomb off the archway in RF in 08 or 09 was the biggest blast I've seen in person at The Trop
I’d love to add Thome and would prefer option C going with a 6 man bullpen with recycling arms from Durham as needed during the season.
I hope that teams get a 26th roster spot as part of the next collective bargaining agreement.
I'm in for $50...
…for the Sign JimJam Fund.
Is Los on the market...
with PTB to first, DJ as insurance and Thome in at DH? Seems a little far fetched to me. I`m just trying to make sense out of the DJ signing and now this.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Jan 17, 2010 7:04 PM EST reply actions
I can't imagine
that if the Rays approached a team like SF and offered to pay 6 mil of PtB’s contract, they wouldn’t be at least interested. Then we could use the remaining 3 mil on Thome.
That makes some sense
Considering Burrell couldn’t hit one HR off left handed pitching last year you wouldn’t want him around with Thome here. Rays have already paid 2 million of Pats 9 million dollar salary in 2010 so any club would have to take on 7 million. The Rays are going to eat another 4 or 5 million to get rid of Pat. This is just one more reminder what a awful move RFO made signing Burrell. Thank goodness this time next year we won’t be talking Pat the bat rack as I’m sick of it.
Come off it
It was a smart move by RFO that didn’t pan out. Shit happens. Not every move is going to work, but you can’t fault them for the process on that. Maybe it was a slight overpay, but who could have guessed that the bottom would have fallen out of the market a mere couple of weeks later. I’m happy that we didn’t sign Bradley, Giambi, or even Abreu (he refused to DH). I hope that this time next year we’re talking about hopefully being able to re-sign PtB after an incredible season where he carried the team on his back for stretches. I hope he proves me right.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
same player, just hindsight?
Thome’s 2009 .249/.366/.847 looks amazingly similar to PTB 2008 of .250/.367/.875. Granted the price for Thome will be much easier to absorb than the 9m for PTB.
pitching is like real estate . . . .location, location, location
The man's funny
JIMMERS IS VERY AFRAID OF IDENTITY THEFT. WE SPENT A WHOLE SEASON WITH A FAKE JOSE CONTRERAS.
BOBBY JENKS WAS ASKING ABOUT TWATTER BUT I TOLD HIM HE HAD THE NAME WRONG
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Another gem
I WOULD LIKE TO ADMIT TO THE USAGE OF HAM TO HELP ME HIT LOTS OF DINGERS
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Are people sure it's even a legit account?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I've heard several rumors regarding
Miguel Tejada for the 2nd base job…this would be a great acquisition IMO.
by TheFlyingJay on Jan 17, 2010 11:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If by 'great' you mean 'patently stupid', sure.
Too expensive, and he’s a garbage defensive shortstop; he’s not going to be much better at 2B.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Thome @ Trop
2007-09 (source ESPN)
60 PA 12runs 4hrs 11rbi .353b.a.- .450obp 9bbs 15ks
likes the Trop!
Rays play Baltimore two series at beginning and Thome has hit Baltimore pitching really well past 3 years (who hasn’t?)
eat the Burrell loss, get Jimmers
That sample is much too small to glean anything of value
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
ok...Thome @ Trop 1998 to 2009
60 for 188 OAB .319b.a. walked 35 times .426 OBP
40 runs-14hrs-39rbi
didn’t play at the Trop during his NL stint 2003-5
is that a large enough sample? 2007-2009 show that he hammered better as he got older and against better Rays pitching….:-) cheers.
This is bgfour. I've already banned this new account.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
That sample is large enough
for me to poop on
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 19, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Any scenario that reduces or eliminates Pat Burrell's playing time pleases me.
And any scenario involving Jim Thome cranking out 30 HRs as the Rays DH pleases me more!
Anyone who ends a twitter post with "*chortle*" is OK in my book
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 18, 2010 5:56 AM EST reply actions
Why is it less likely
that Burrell will return to form at age 33 than that Thome will crater at age 39?
I don't see it as either or
I’m assuming a case where Thome comes on the cheap in addition to Burrell. Both have risks, and if either/both works out, the Rays would be in good shape. The bench would be thin positionally, but good depth is just a phone call to Durham away.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jan 18, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
i agree
It would be nice to have Thome because if Pat gets hurt and misses time like he did last year, theoretically we wouldn’t lose very much in terms of production
--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..
Get rid of B.J. - Sign Thome for 2 years, no more
Being my first post, I welcome the scouring, misplaced anger, and barrage of bad produce pelting which will ensue from my comments. Oh well.
Having said that, if we want Thome bad enough, which I think we should – we need to find a way to get it DONE instead of just sitting around and moaning about how bad of a deal Pat Burrell was. So freakin’ what? Every team makes mistakes, the deed is done, now what are we to do, suffer MORE because of it? Gawd if I have to spend another season listening to people b*tch and whine about how we aren’t aggressive enough…what is it with Tampa Bay Fans?
With four players having just filed for arbitration, now is the time to cut to the chase. If Desmond Jennings is even 90% ready to go out there, then B.J. needs to go. He has proven erratic of late both on and off the field. I just don’t see the discipline, and something is going on with him personally that he is having a really hard time not bringing onto the field. He’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but of the four up for negotiations – and taking into consideration the possibility that we could actually even have Thome – which we don’t really know yet; who makes enough AND has some issues that just throwing more money at them would at least seem worthy of debate???
Also, we have DJ — and because we’d like to free up some cash, this may be the time for mgmt to actually make a difficult decision and not be so lukewarm. One of the things that has made TB so great in comparison to the rest of MLB historically (yes I know we are relatively new “historically”) is not only our farm system, but our way of making difficult and sometimes misunderstood moves with confidence. Thank goodness those in power don’t give a crud about whether or not the fans and/or critics agree. (My god, if this game were just a popularity contest then the locals alone would be enough to declare us the winners).
So, ANYHOW, bye bye B.J…… That would pretty much free up the money to get Thome, albeit taking a risk that DJ falls flat and doesn’t perform yet. But I just don’t see that happening.
You may disagree, but hey, you hate “your” team 99.9% of the time anyhow, so hey, keep it going.
How near to good is what is wild
by raysbabyrays on Jan 18, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Good luck
ironirec’d
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see BJ's discipline either. But then again, I'm not in the locker room.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Also, you don't really sound THAT bad.
I don’t agree with a majority of your post, but at least it doesn’t read like you’re in 2nd grade. Just keep in mind that this is an internet message board and not “America’s Got Talent”, and you’ll be fine.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
Since when did BJ's money equal Thome's money?
Also, yes, let’s trade a valuable asset with upside for less than possible value…. unless he’s got an enlarged heart, in which case let’s make it a steal now! /Dominick’d
You know, if we could get Succaneers.com up and running, these kinds of posts wouldn't end up hidden.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
In my imagination it's like bacon pasted to titties by peanut butter.
Crunchy!
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 11:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hate "them" 100% of the time, you sonofabitch.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 10:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's "daughterofabitch" to you
How near to good is what is wild
by raysbabyrays on Jan 18, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
If we trade BJ
What do we do about the outfield in 2011, after Crawford’s contract expires? We’d need to spend more money to replace him, as there isn’t another OF available in the system.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I guess my point is that trading BJ probably isn't much of an option
unless the team is willing to commit to extending Crawford, or the team receives a good outfield prospect in return (which seems unlikely to me).
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
There's basically no argument for trading BJ unless Friedman gets a phone call from Brian "The Brain" Sabean.
“Hey there, Andrew! I’m really sick of this Buster Posey guy. I dunno if he’s ever gonna mature… I mean, what man over the age of 12 goes by Buster?!”
Or I guess the third option
Is that the team gets comfortable with moving Zobrist or Rodriguez to the OF long-term
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
The Rays pay me too well to hate them 99% of the time.
I’m black though, so you don’t see my discipline.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 18, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Remember when B.J. yelled at Delmon for being a dumbass?
He was just letting his inner thug out!
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 18, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Phhbt, his inner thug is only putting in extra time every day to fix his hitting stance.
What a lazy bum!
He has been?
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My point was he put in extra time during the season to work on his hitting.
Go tell your Grandma to choke on a broken beer bottle, though I think she has a different phrase for that.
Damn, who stole the summerplum wine from Uncle Winderbluff's burrow, eh, my little hirsutely footed friend?
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
By the shine of a strawberry!
Fetch Master Anderson of Uptonia and his smiting calculator!
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We must seek the counsel of their kinsman.
He of wavering association, the Steedstroker of House Normandin!
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Jan 18, 2010 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
tee hee
::giggle::
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
More Prelude to a Pena Move?
A solid Jim Thome in the lineup would help offset a trade of Pena’s bat. With a combination of Dan Johnson, Willy Aybar and Ryan Shealy to play first base? But I still don’t see Thome coming aboard so long as we have Burrell.
Yeah, and my suggestion to ditch B.J. knowing we have Desmond was CLEARLY racist
How near to good is what is wild
The "Beej is lazy" camp is overloaded with racist, so it's become a meme.
I wouldn’t take it personally.
Pannta on the ground, pants on the ground...
looking like a fool with your pants on the ground.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Jan 18, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
If he were white you could see through him and find his discipline.
His parents aren’t trans, though, and that just screws everything up.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 18, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Upton is a 25 year old
who has been erratic at bat and one of the hardest workers on the team. The notion that people want to jettison a player with his talent and with the evidence that he can fulfill his promise seems to me outlandish. For his defense alone he is worth hanging onto regardless of the arbitration decision, but in addition, on the reasonable chance that his offensive problems are due to injury that should now be healed make it even more urgent the Rays remain committed to keeping him.
I don’t know that he will solve his offensive problems, although I doubt it will be from lack of working at it. But I do think he can be the best player on this team, the type of player you can build around. Given his position, his defense, his plate discipline, power and speed, I think he may become more valuable than Longoria even. He may even learn to be more animated in interviews which is likely the most important single factor in the way many fans view players.
by bobr on Jan 18, 2010 3:46 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
it’s too bad the Rays have been treated to two consecutive injury plagued seasons, but this is no reason to give up on him. Like you said his defense is elite,and his bat can be hit or miss. The Rays are in no position to give up on a player with gold glove defense with his bat possessing the potential to be above avg. at a COF spot. That is not the way a good low budget org is run, even if DJ can perform at above league avg. in CF who fills CC’s shoes when he accepts the inevitable 15 per deal from NY/CHI/LA?
http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 19, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
I need to write a script
to just rec everything bob says.
by staplemaniac on Jan 19, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Joyce
Does anyone think that Matt Joyce could hit well enough vs RHP to split time/platoon with Burrell at DH? I personally don’t think that Joyce can perform with the bat at MLB level but at least this would be some return on the Jackson trade and it would be an in house option versus the aging Thome and his 2010 salary.
by kimo from kauai on Jan 19, 2010 4:02 PM EST reply actions
This thread is not about Edwin Jackson. At all.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
I was wondering if Matt Joyce could be a DH consideration or alternative if indeed Thome is being considered.
by kimo from kauai on Jan 19, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
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