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Attendance Analysis (Pt. 3): Market Over-Saturation

To read parts one and two in this series, which discuss Att+ and attendance trends among expansion teams, go here and here.

I get it: it's way too easy to attack the Rays' attendance issues.  I know, I know...we suck, right?  It's been done and said many times before and this article is only the yearly reiteration of the same thing: attendance stinks and the franchise has no hope.  Why do journalists feel the need to be disparaging of the Tampa area?  What the heck, do they have something against us?  Gee golly, it makes me so darn tootin' mad!

Okay, I'm bad at sarcasm.  Anyway, in a refreshing change from the normal attendance dialogue, John Romano raises the question in his recent column of if the Tampa Bay market is oversaturated with sports teams and as a result, if Tampa Bay teams like the Rays are destined for low attendance numbers forever.  The article itself is very civil and Romano goes to lengths to state that he's not attempting to lowball sports fans in the Tampa area:

"So should we be pointing fingers at ourselves as sports fans? ... Absolutely not. I don't buy that many tickets to games, and I have no right to shame anyone else into buying tickets. Every individual has perfectly sound reasons for spending, or not spending, as he sees fit. ... But that doesn't mean we can't take a critical look at the market itself, and question what it will take for adequate support."

Romano is attempting to take a broader look at the Tampa-St. Pete market and although he's still reaching the same conclusion (we may always have bad attendance), he's making a defendable argument and using some facts to back him up.  Even though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion, I have to give him props for attempting to take the dialogue on attendance to a new level of depth.  Actually, his comments touch upon a point I brought up last Sunday: that expansion teams from the 1990s have to compete for fans with established sports teams in their markets, which could make it tough to maintain high attendance figures over time.  With the Rays having the Buccaneers and Lightning to compete with for fans, does this mean they will never be able to have good attendance numbers?  It's a valid question and although it's still implying a problem with the Tampa-St. Pete area, it's a refreshing change from the normal "attendance is low, this area stinks" reaction.

To back up this claim, Romano points to a recent Portfolio.com study  that states there are 18 markets that have too many sports teams to support based on their metropolitan area's financial base, with the worst seven being Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Tampa-St. Pete, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and Denver.  Here's a look at a summary of the study's results:

Star-divide

Metropolitan Area

Total Personal Income (billions)

Number of Sports Teams

Available Personal Income (billions)

Cleveland

 $                     83.23

3

 $               (77.20)

Pittsburgh

 $                   100.67

3

 $               (60.62)

Tampa-St. Pete

 $                   100.92

3

 $               (60.37)

Kansas City

 $                     80.82

3

 $               (57.07)

Milwaukee

 $                     66.68

2

 $               (56.46)

Phoenix

 $                   148.47

4

 $               (49.24)

Denver

 $                   119.09

5

 $               (92.50)

Ouch, that certainly doesn't look good for Tampa.  We've got the fourth worst deficit and Pittsburgh is our most comparable city, and the Pirates aren't exactly known for having a large, faithful fan base.  But before we get depressed, let's take a look at how each of the baseball teams associated with these cities fared last year by Att+ (Attendance Plus, or percent above or below league average attendance):

Team

2009 Att+

Indians

74

Pirates

66

Rays

79

Royals

76

Brewers

90

Diamondbacks

128

Rockies

112

So five teams were below average and two above, although the Rockies had the largest deficit by far and managed to be one of the two teams with above-average attendance.  How does that work?  If Romano's premise is true - that overextended metropolitan areas like Tampa are doomed to low attendances - then there should be a direct relationship between the size of the deficit and a team's Att+.  In fact, using this sample, there is no correlation (r = -.04) between the two variables.

Maybe we're using too small of a sample, though.  Using only seven teams and one year of data is the very definition of a small sample size, so let's expand our analysis to include every team (minus the Nationals, who moved during that time period) and their average Att+ over the past ten years.

Data

The larger sample definition changes things a lot.  The correlation between Available Personal Income (API) and Att+ is now within the range of medium strength (r=.56), meaning that as API increases, so should a team's Att+.  It's not a strong correlation, but it does show that there's at least some relationship between the two and seems to support Romano's claim that the Rays are destined for low attendance figures as long as the Buccs and Lightning are in town.

However, it's not that simple (it never is with attendance data).  Like my intro to psychology teacher drilled into me a million time, correlation does not mean causation.  Saying that two things are related doesn't mean that one causes the other and this correlation isn't strong enough to mean too much unless I tested the relationship with a different statistical test.  Also, it's a weak enough correlation to imply that there are still other variables out there that influence attendance, and that API doesn't doom or bless a team.  For example, look at Colorado again.  Even when we expanded the sample, Colorado still has an Att+ score over 100 despite having the worst deficit of any market.  Cleveland, the team with the second highest API deficit, had a 98 Att+.  Arizona's deficit of $-49 billion still didn't stop them from having a 107 Att+, just as Florida's excess of $39 billion didn't stop them from having a 57 Att+ score.  In other words, having a metropolitan area that is over-extended may hurt your odds of having higher attendance, but it's not the be-all-end-all.

To prove that point, here's something that's more strongly correlated over that ten year time span with Att+ than API: team winning percentage (r=.61).  The more a team won, the higher their attendance was - and that relationship is slightly stronger than the one between API and Att+.  At the same time, the relationship between API and winning percentage is weak, meaning that both variables simultaneously influence attendance but are unrelated to each other. 

That last part may not sound like much, but that's a huge point.  Huge.  If API and winning percentage aren't related, that means that teams have multiple ways to influence their attendance.  A team could move to a less saturated market to increase attendance...or they could start winning.  Therefore, teams aren't doomed with less than league-average attendance numbers if they are in a saturated market; there are teams like Arizona, Colorado, Cleveland, Milwaukee, San Francisco, St. Louis, and even Detroit that are getting by just fine despite that. 

Of course, winning percentage and API are only two of the many variables that go in to influencing attendance numbers.  The way I see it, there are five main variables (and probably plenty of smaller ones) that converge to influence attendance scores:

  • Market size and saturation
  • Team winning percentage, recent and historic
  • Age of franchise
  • Recent playoff history
  • Newness of stadium

I don't pretend to know the relative strengths of each of these variables, but that's what I'm attempting to explore through this series.  Many of these variables are working against the Rays currently - we're a young team with a poor history of winning, a poor stadium, and a saturated market - but each and every year things are getting better and better for us.  Every year that goes by our team gets older, and the more years that we finish in contention for a playoff spot, the longer our tradition of winning.  The more we win, the more people come to believe in the team and the more people attend.  We're in a small market that's saturated with other sports, so we can't expect that we're ever going to have Att+ scores that rival the Yankees or Dodgers; if that's your definition of an "attendance problem", then yes, we'll always have an attendance problem.  But we can expect numbers that are a lot better than what we've had over the past 10 years.  And that's why I can't help but keep looking up.

"Each market has its own unique challenges. Ours is marked by widespread geography and a scarcity of large, corporate headquarters. We can find challenging circumstances in almost every sports market," Rays president Matt Silverman said. "In almost all cases, they are able to overcome those challenges."

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"With the Rays having the Buccaneers and Lightning to compete with for fans, does this mean they will never be able to have good attendance numbers?"

I wonder if the Rays along with all MLB teams will see an increase in attendance starting in 2012?

Because, ya know, there will be no NFL season in 2011. Could that lockout be what swings baseball back to being America’s pastime?

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 21, 2010 12:48 PM EST reply actions  

Along that line

I’m thinking of sending a “Keep up the good work” card to the Glazer boys. With so many people turned off by the Bucs, just as many seat deposits are starting to run their course, I don’t think it’s crazy to think that many people will put that $700 (at a minimum) into season tickets for the Rays. The casual fan would seem to prefer NFL because there are only 8 home games, and they are almost always on Sundays. There needs to be a line of communication that tells those fans that for that same money, they can go to up to 10x the amount of games. If you can’t go then you can always sell or give away the tickets. If you’re an insurance agent or a commercial real estate broker or anything that involves a little customer schmooze, this is a great way to get on someone’s good side. I only hope that your average fan quits with the excuses and comes to more games.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 21, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Has that ever happened before in any city?

Where two pro teams try to poach season ticket holders of the other team? Like put up a billboard in front of RayJ saying something along the lines of what you said, “Spend the same for 10x the games..”

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 21, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Team ownerships are generally pretty friendly toward each other

I know the Rays and Lightning enjoy a good relationship.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jan 21, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The Evil Geniuses at the Rays should be trying to think of a way to capitalize on the impending lockout. Wait a tic--

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Jan 22, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not totally sure how much winning will push the attendance up

The Marlins always had struggles in drawing people and they’ve won a lot including 2 WS titles. Ballpark could be the reason, but we’d need to wait until 2012 to know how much stadiums are gonna help. But the biggest thing that is not discussed that in my opinion is Market Demographics. Florida has a lot of transplants and the age of the population was not very helpful for Rays.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 21, 2010 5:46 PM EST reply actions  

I've been debating about looking into demographics

I’ll see what I can find and I’ll probably bring it up later on in the series. Thanks for the idea.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

If you get a good source for demographics let me know

I’ve gone through years of US Census data (aka the long way) to find this info out (about Midwestern transplants in FL & AZ), so if you find a good resource please share it.

http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 21, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Will do

I’m not sure exactly what I’ll find, but we’ll see. I may end up diving into the census data myself, but we’ll see.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Going through the census data is tedious

I was a Geo/Hist/Poli Sci Major in college, so it’s interesting to me, but still tough. If you take the time you can definitely find some general data about migration from the US Census reports, but you still need to know the TB area personally to make exact conclusions (i.e. that TB has more Midwestern transplants than the Space Coast where NY residents are the majority). One bit of advice is use DMV stats they will publish stats about motor vehicle regs/licenses county by county and where they are transferring their registration from which is helpful in identifying more exact numbers.

http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 21, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Oy, I had a couple friends that were history majors and I just remember them killing themselves with research on a nearly regular basis

I’m doing this willingly, though, and I don’t really know what that says about me…

Good to know, though…I’ll probably start messing around and looking for stuff beginning of next week. I never would have thought of looking at DMV stats. Nifty.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 22, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Per-capita income

I would be willing to bet that the Tampa Bay area is on the lower end of the league median in terms of per-capita income. I would like to see a study of the correlation between the income/cost of living in relation to the average ticket price.

How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...

by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Jan 21, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, in the Marlins case there's a very specific reason they don't attend games.

Every time they put a winning team on the field, it’s get torn up the next year and it’s HOT AS SHIT in an open stadium. Could you imagine going to Rays games in a non-air conditioned environment in the summer? Fuck that noise, I’d stay home and watch it or go to a bar.

by Suttree on Jan 21, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

They've been better about keeping a team around since 2003

Rather than 1997 which was literally FA fest. But yeah the poor stadium conditions is why I’m interested in seeing how their new park does since it looks nice digitally.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 21, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Either Forbes or Fortune Magazine

about five years ago (I can’t remember which) did a study on this, and said that Tampa Bay was easily the most sports oversaturated market of any locale with franchises in the five major leagues (for some reason, they included MLS in the study as well). They also came to the conclusion that five current markets that have baseball teams can’t support them, and that the only two places that could support a new baseball team are New York and San Fernando Valley.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 21, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Also

It’s not surprising that this new study makes things look even more dire, but I guess my point was that the area supposedly can’t sustain a baseball team even in good times, but there really isn’t anywhere else viable to move one.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 21, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

In addition to those two, this study pointed out that Montreal is a huge market

And if you look at how the Expos drew before their team stunk and had no direction, the market there is not nearly as horrible as it was made out to be.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Expos:

1969 – 1990: 101 Att+
1979 – 1983: 139 Att+

Of course, they tanked from 1997 – 2004.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Lots of the English speakers

left Quebec between the early 80’s and now, which probably didn’t help them at all either.

http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 21, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm...demographics again.

Thanks.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahahah

well when you become the blogs specialist in an issue with a thousand variables, you’re going to be led in a lot of tedious directions.

http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 21, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Love it!

Smacks head on desk

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 22, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

That strike really ruined baseball in Canada

Expos in 1994 were like the Rays in 2008-Finally going to prove themselves, but had it taken away. But I doubt another team goes there or maybe even PR unless we’re really desperate.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The older study I'm thinking of came right before the Expos moved

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 21, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Oops

I mean San Bernardino, not San Fernando. Which I guess is the same result this study came to.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 21, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a long process building a fan base

Hope I’m not repeating any previous data:

Rays/Devil Rays attendance since 2001:
2001-16,029
2002-13,157
2003-13,070
2004-16,139
2005-14,232
2006-16,925
2007-17,130
2008-22,259
2009-23,147

10k average increase since 2003.

The trend is positive but can only be sustained if the Rays stay competitive. We could see a downward slide in attendance if the Rays have a similar upcoming season to 2009. Best case average attendance for 2010 will be around 25K average if the Rays come out of the gate early and stay near a playoff position. One good thing or bad thing depending how you look at it is the Rays should draw over 30K each game vs the Yankees during the first weekend series. Some of the folks shutout getting tickets for that weekend series will have to wait till the next weekend series vs Toronto. As always the Rays need help from out of town fans.

by rickrays on Jan 21, 2010 6:01 PM EST reply actions  

Since the new regime has taken over, it's increased every season.

And yeah, 25K definitely seems realistic. I’d say it depends how competitive the Rays end up being – if we’re in first place going into the all-star break like in 2008, I’d expect fans to jump on board a lot sooner than they did in ‘08. But if we’re in third and hanging around the wild card, that’s not quite as sexy.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

We even increased in '09 when even Selig was calling

for impending doom. I have faith in the process and expect the fans to follow.

First place at the All Star Break would be great. Make it so.

on Twitter @CubsStats23

by B Ray on Jan 22, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone else find it interesting

That this study viewed Bradenton as its own MSA? That would have to cut into Tampa Bay a bit.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 21, 2010 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

Very good point.

Venice,Sarasota, Bradenton metro area has about 680k people, and I275 makes the Trop very easy to get to.

by twenty5psi on Jan 21, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

A little known and often overlooked factor

If you have 30 teams, someone will always finish 30th in attendance. So for MLB, the point should be, are the leagues better served having 30 teams, or 25 teams? Or 20 teams? Even if that means carrying some franchises during their down years? Because, even with 16 teams, someone will still finish last.

by nomoredevil on Jan 21, 2010 6:09 PM EST reply actions  

I think I'm missing your point

I don’t think any franchise is in a desperate enough state right now to warrant removing entire teams.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, that is my point

There is a great hue in cry in ahem some publication and media outlets (SPT & ESPN) about this city of that city having awful attendance in comparison with others. But the truth, someone will always be last in attendance. The attendance picture should always be taken as a whole. If 30 teams is the number of teams MLB wants to operate with, where are the best 30 places to put them? Yeah, we’re not Boston. (Thank God.) But to think that there are better places to put a franchise, and declare with any certainty that the new place would draw better, that’s quite a reach. So wouldn’t it be nice if we could just say “hey, we’re not Boston, so what?” and focus instead on the interesting product this FO is putting on the field?

by nomoredevil on Jan 21, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahh, well said.

Couldn’t agree more.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 21, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well there's a big difference between being last in attendance and being down 64% from the league average

as the Marlins were in their 10th season. I think that’s why I really like ATT+. It can really put things in perspective.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 21, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I agree

ATT+ is a much better way of looking at the issue, and 60% below league average is significant. But pundits tend to look at the years that happens in a vacuum. They point out that the Rays are good and still lagging, and they throw up their hands and say "oh, Tampa Bay is a bad market." And they forget the waiting list the Bucs had for ten years, or that the Lightning drew in the top five just a few years ago. Attendance, particularly when you remove the top few markets, fluctuates a lot over time. Remember when Cleveland was selling out the place? Now it’s not. Does that mean Cleveland has become a bad market? I don’t think so.

Now, if a team draws 60% below league average for over a decade, then yeah, that’s an attendance problem and maybe the league should consider other markets. But if a team draws 10% to 20% below league average annually and still struggles to put a legitimate team on the field, I wouldn’t call that an attendance problem; I’d call that a league competition problem. Because some market will always be below average.

And just so we’re clear, my little rant wasn’t really inspired by the ATT+ posts here. The catalyst was a certain writer for a newspaper to be named later who turns his random column generator to "attendance problems" whenever it’s a slow news day. I’ve enjoyed the posts in this series so far.

by nomoredevil on Jan 22, 2010 7:46 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt, I was picking up passion more than vitriol in your comments

It’s pretty simple, if you win, this area will support you.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 22, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Pretty amusing interview with the Upton brothers on MLBN Hot Stove.

Should replay during the 7pm hr.

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 21, 2010 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for the heads up

http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog

by CubFanRaysaddict on Jan 21, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like the Lightning owners are in trouble again

What a joke that ownership is. Sorry but if they can’t make money fold the team. Rays will be a good option for the people here. Sounds mean but business is business:

 http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan/21/211840/lightning-ownership-situation-remains-unsettled/

by rickrays on Jan 21, 2010 8:51 PM EST reply actions  

THe whole NHL is in a financial mess

But I’d not worry too much, they can always sell the team like the Rangers were sold.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 21, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm starting to think that Bill Davidson had a bet with Mike Illitch that the Lightning would win a Stanley Cup

He pulled out all the stops, won it, then sold the team to the Tard Patrol. I miss businessmen in charge of a business.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 21, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

My answer to romano was: Charlie T wrote:
In the State of FL we loose half of our fan base when the Snow Birds go north but still despite the economy, attendance at Rays games has risen each of the past four seasons and the 2009 attendance was 64.2% higher than the year before Stuart Sternberg and Co., took control of the team. With a good start we should see another rise this year. I don’t understand you John. If you are a Rays fan, why not try to support the team with up beat articles instead of this junk. If your not a Rays fan “GET OUT OF TOWN”
Jan 22nd, 2010 9:09 AM

by CharlieRay on Jan 22, 2010 9:43 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

...

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Jan 22, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

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