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Not So Fast My Friend: Why The Rays Should Re-Sign Carlos Pena

Over the winter, the Rays front office, Scott Boras, and Carlos Pena will have to determine what Pena’s value may be on the open market, what his value is to the Rays, and whether or not Pena and the Rays have a strong desire and the economic resources to forge a contract to keep Pena in Tampa. It will not be an easy task for the Rays to replace Pena’s power in the lineup, find a replacement who can provide solid defense, or find anyone more passionate about playing for the Rays organization. On the open market, Pena may get an offer from another organization that would be foolish for the Rays to entertain matching, which is why I would suggest signing Pena within the first five days after the World Series to a two year extension (possibly incentive laden) that would leave all parties satisfied.

In 2010, the Rays hit 160 home runs which was just above the league average of 158 home runs. Carlos Pena (28) and Carl Crawford (19) combined to hit 47 of those home runs and it is a certainty that Carl Crawford will not be back.   The home run may not be the most important part of winning for the Rays, but the five worst home run hitting teams in the AL last year were Baltimore Orioles, Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Royals, Oakland A’s, and the Seattle Mariners.  The overall winning percentage for those teams was .425 with only one team, the Oakland A’s having a .500 record (81-81). If the Rays do not sign Pena, where do the Rays find the 25% of the power they are losing from their 2010 team?

Currently, the pieces are not in place to quickly transition the first base position from Pena to someone from the minor league system, nor do I feel that the Rays have an in-house replacement for the 20-30 home runs that Pena will provide in the 2011 season. Some may suggest an uptick in home runs from Joyce, Zobrist, Upton, Rodriguez, or Longoria, others may believe the power will come from another free agent signing, but I believe that the most certain power uptick may come from a healthy Carlos Pena with something to prove in 2011. Leslie Anderson and Jose Ruiz may be part of the first base solution in the future, but I’d like to have the certainty of Pena in the lineup as Anderson is worked in at DH/1b/LF and Ruiz gets valuable minor league finishing.  The contractual obligations to Anderson (4 years, 3.75 million) and Ruiz (4-year, 4 million [option to be determined by November 15th]) should not make Carlos Pena too rich for the Rays to bring back in 2011. It is my belief that neither Carlos Pena nor the Rays are ready or willing to close the book on his career in Tampa.

A quick look back at the history of first base for the Rays is included below:

Star-divide

Carlos Pena has solidified first base since 2007, the last man to provide such stability was Fred McGriff from 1998 through 2001. Overall, first base has been an area of power, productivity, and stability for the Rays franchise since they began play in 1998. The group of first baseman to appear in over 100 games in a season in team history (including Pena) has averaged 24 home runs and 81 RBI and put up a slash line of .260/.359/.401.

Five men have appeared in 100 games or more and only 9 men who played over 50% of their games at first base have appeared in more than five games in a season. The roll call includes Fred McGriff (1998-2001), Scott McClain (1998), Steve Cox (1998, 1999, 2001-2002), Travis Lee (2003, 2005-2006), Tino Martinez (2004), Eduardo Perez (2005), Dan Johnson (2008), Chris Richard (2009), and Carlos Pena (2006-2010).  Others to appear in at least  10 games at first base includes Paul Sorrento (1998), Herbert Perry (1999), Aubrey Huff (2001 through 2005), Robert Fick (2004), Ty Wiggington (2006 and 2007), Greg Norton (2006), Erik Hinske (2008), Willy Aybar (2008, 2009),  Ben Zobrist and Dan Johnson (2010). The primary first basemen in Rays history are:

  • Fred McGriff (1998-2001) appeared in a total of 577 games, hit 99 Home Runs with 359 RBIs and put up a slash line of .291/.380/.444. McGriff would be traded to the Chicago Cubs (for Manny Aybar and Jason Smith) in July of 2001 after losing much of his playing time to Steve Cox.
  • Steve Cox (2001- 2002) appeared in 256 games, hit 28 home runs with 123 RBI and put up a slash line of .255/.327/.408. Steve Cox would depart Tampa Bay after the 2002 season to play for the Yokohama Bay Stars of the Japan Central League.
  • Travis Lee (2003) appeared in 145 games, hit 19 HR with 70 RBI and put up a slash line of .275/.348/.459. At the end of the 2003 season, Travis Lee signed as a free agent with the New York Yankees.
  • In November of 2003, the Rays would send Evan Rust and John Paul Davis to the St. Louis Cardinals for Tino Martinez.  In 2004, Martinez appeared in 138 games, hit 23 home runs with 76 RBI and put up a slash line of .262/.362/.461. Martinez would depart as a free agent at the end of the 2004 season.
  • In 2005 Travis Lee would return to the Rays via free agency. The Rays would sign Eduardo Perez (2005) to be the right-handed part of the 1b platoon. In 2005, Lee and Perez would combine to hit 23 home runs with 77 RBI and put up a slash line of .267/.324/.446. Eduardo Perez would leave after the 2005 season.
  • In 2006, Travis Lee would see most of the time at first base and hit 11 home runs with 31 RBI and put up a slash line of .224/.312/.364.
  • Carlos Pena (2007-2010) has appeared in 566 games, hit 144 Home Runs with 407 RBI and put up a slash line of .238/.368/.516.

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His number were terrible post all star break

only 10 HR and 30 RBI. That doesn’t seem very hard to replace.

by jso on Oct 30, 2010 9:16 AM EDT reply actions  

How many Rays hit 10 HR post ASG?

Pena also battled a foot injury that just may have impaired him lifting the ball

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to DRB Mr Neg

These are the types of articles one cxan really absorb and digest, and of course iscuss

Ot is imperative for the Rays to let Boras and Pena know that the offer comes off the table after the five day period

I too think Los has something to prove in 2011 and he may ebtertain a one year deal to do just that

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh and as for those 47 HR? As one of our

distinguished writers wrote ’it’s ‘simple’, just slip Desmond Jennings in LF as he’ll surely replicate Crawford’s share

And of course Leslie Anderson will suddenly find a power stroke at age 29 that has eluded him in AA and AAA

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 9:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Wow, you certainly know how to twist words.

Way to take Erik’s quote out of context. He never said or implied that Jennings would replace Pena’s HR power.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Oct 31, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

As for the importance of Pena in the line up

weren’t we like 3 GB the WC in ’09 when Sabathia broke his fingers on a HBP?

And didn’t we lose 13 straight without him and fall completely out of it?

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions  

The Rays were already 7 games back behind Boston for th W/C before that game started

Rays lost the previous three games to Detroit. It was a 11 game losing streak. With Pena or wothout the Rays were toast by the time Pena was injured.

by rickrays on Oct 30, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously the Kazmir trade

was to blame for that losing streak.

Are you concerned about the high mortality rate of your players?
by Ryan Gilliss

by CubFanRaysaddict on Oct 30, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff, Mr. Neg.

I have to wonder, though: Are we sure Pena can give use 28 or more home runs? I don’t think he’s getting any better at age 33+, nor do I think he is as weak as he was in 2010.

And how much do we expect him to sign for? I would love to have him back for $5M, but I doubt that happens. If the market is that low on him, then he’s a 1B who’s proven his worth in the ALE — so why not bring him back? But I imagine Boras will find a nice stack of $10M waiting somewhere for him.

After living through the Pat Burrell debacle, I’m much more inclined towards bringing FAs in whom we know can succeed in the ALE. But at the same time, the Rays can’t overpay.

Side note: I did some formatting changes to your post; I hope you don’t mind.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Oct 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

His HR/FB% was still close to 2009 & higher than 2008

They left the park when he hit them in the air.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Oct 30, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Power is a very limited commodity

very few players are truly mashers, and of the free agents in their price range, maybe Jim Thome and Russell Branyan can fit the bill. What people forget is Pena also gives the Rays a great glove over at 1B.

Think about how many people who hit 28 HR last year. Only 11 players in the AL had more HR than Pena, and only 2 of them are FAs, and only 1 is a 1B (Konerko and Guerrero).

Lance Berkman is probably the only other FA in the Rays range that is a decent rebound candidate and can provide a decent glove at 1B.

We may be tired of Pena’s streakiness, but if the Rays can add a good contact hitter to their lineup elsewhere, Pena’s power may still be what the Rays need.

by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 30, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

I would still advocate the signing of Thome

as a $1.5-2 mil DH

We haven’t had production like he brings from the DH in quite some time, if ever

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

the only concern I'd have is he has to slow down at some point, right?

Turns 41 next season…but he’s one of the best bats available vs RHP…and probably the cheapest.

by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 30, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

No we need a bat at DH, so we can avoid the likes of Aybar

Baldelli and Kapler simply because they’re RH

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 30, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

With respect to the DH position, I consider us beggars, not choosers.

Besides, Jim Thome has a career 104 wRC+ verse lefties. I’d just trot him out there every day, because 107 wRC+ sure beats what we got in 2010 vs both hands..

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Oct 30, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need a RHB.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 30, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be willing to nab Thome for ~$2M and 2 years.

Some might object to the 2 years, but I doubt the second year happens if Thome looks lost at the plate. I imagine he’d just retire, given his age.

However, paying much over $2M really pushes it. He hasn’t put his body to the test lately — the last time he had 600 PAs was when he was a spry, young 38 year old.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Oct 30, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not gonna happen

Twins won’t let him walk for that much

by benderbrodriguez on Oct 30, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way he comes that cheap

He’s older, but he obliterated the ball last year and if he’s slowing down it isn’t showing. The man still has great bat speed when he needs it.

Even if he decides he doesn’t need that much more money he’ll likely want to stay in the Midwest and/or Twins.

by Daniel Berlyn on Oct 31, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure why you folks above me are fawning over this article.

Listing the number of home runs (and passingly mentioning plus defense) for an aging player that will be hoping to make more money than he made last season (as is the goal of all players) without any real analysis is hardly great writing. What do you predict he will do next year? His GB% was through the roof, and I’m not exactly sure how a bum foot is to blame for his swing completely changing in that regard. He’s not going to all of a sudden learn how to hit lefties. We need good hitters, not guys that hit a bunch of homers. The former usually includes the latter, but the Pena era needs to come to a close. He will hit well in the occasional streak against weak righties. I think we can do better for comparable money.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 30, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Man you really are a prick

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "To be the best, you have to beat the best…"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Oct 30, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The fuck did I do?

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 30, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

disagreed that Pena is worth keeping

sorry, he’s done. the bum foot is a smoke screen – his swing was crap long before he hurt his foot.

the last 2 years we’ve seen a few good streaks from Pena at the plate, and A LOT of bad streaks. risk/reward seems to point to re-signing his as VERY risky. Unless he’s willing to take $1 million and a lot of incentives, I don’t see value.

I appreciate Los’ attitude, and all the good that he’s done for the Rays. But we’ve just seen two horrible years at the plate from him, and a good offensive team just cannot sustain the long periods where he is virtually an automatic out.

by tampa_edski on Oct 31, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Improve the DH and 1st base spot

Pena’s defense regressed as well in 2010. Time to let him go because sub .200 doesn’t cut it even if he hits 40 HR’s. Rays need power so, find it cheaper at DH. Let Dan Johnson and sign Marcus Thames(for way less than Pena…maybe 2-3 million) split the DH spot and let them hit .250+ with 30-35 HR’s. Thome isn’t going to leave Minny and certainly not for 1-2 million.

 Then find a good hitting/fielding 1st baseman via tade (James Loney) or free agent(Berkman who doesn’t KO for 2-3 million).)

by budman3 on Oct 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

it's not yes or no, it's the value

I would love to see CP re-sign at the right price, but seriously doubt if Boras will even consider $4-5m plus incentives. He’ll get someone to pay something stupid, but not AF. Personally I think he will bounce back some (2010 BABIP was only .222) and he is one of the few guys we have left to add life to the clubhouse (seems like there were several times this year when we need Gomes running from the outfield and tackling an opponent to light a spark under the team). That said, he he has a negative UZR for 2 straight years and swinging and missing while trying to pull those outside pitches really drives me up a wall after a while.

Does anybody really think Boras would do a deal for $5m or less?

pitching is like real estate . . . .location, location, location

by changeup31 on Oct 30, 2010 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

You say someone

Yet look at last year’s free agent market. Guys like Dye got rude awakenings with that mindset. Does Boras want less than 5 mil? Oh course not, but please show me one team right now that has a need at 1B that is willing and able to spend that for Carlos Pena.

by Karandrs on Oct 30, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

market is thin

I agree that the market has been tough on 2nd tier vets the last few years. Maybe a team like Toronto? Overbay says he wants a raise (nearly $8m in ‘10) and will test the market. He hits for better avg than Pena (but doesn’t everyone?), but not near the power. I don’t disagree with you, I just worry about Boris. If we can get for true WAR value (1.0 wins in 2010) I vote a big yes. We will need to take some chances offensively next year if we are going to compete until the end and he still has upside.

pitching is like real estate . . . .location, location, location

by changeup31 on Oct 30, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

More like 4 years

But that’s not the point. Dye is a case in someone who is over evaluating himself in the free agent market. I was in no way shape or form comparing them on a playing basis.

by Karandrs on Oct 30, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotcha

Hmm it’s mysterious how the market will shake out

by benderbrodriguez on Oct 30, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it's anything like the last 2 years

It’ll be ugly for any non-premium FAs unless they come to realize the new shift in baseball in terms of contracts.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Oct 31, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pena in Baltimore

He’ll hit 35 out with them and in that park half the season.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 31, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re-Tooling

I think that most agree that nailing down the Bullpen is the biggest issue, by far, for the Rays this Off-Season. There is plenty of reason to believe that Leslie Anderson/Dan Johnson can fill the bulk of the DH/1st Base role pretty well. IMO, the greatest value that Carlos has is as a Team Leader. He fills that naturally far better than Evan does trying.

But no team can have one player eating up 20% of the payroll, unless his name is Albert Pujols, without creating discontent. Particularly a team that is losing a perennial All-Star, largely due to resources.

Carlos HR’s and RBI’s can easily be covered with addl. playing time for Sean, Reid, Matt & DJ and the added bat of Leslie. And his 200 K’s won’t be missed. Whether these guys can make up for losing Both Carlos AND Carl, we’ll have to see.

Jaso needs to start regularly. Kelly Shoppach will likely still be here, by virtue: Who could we possibly find who would take him off our hands? The Braves seem to still have an interest in BJ. My opinion, if they’ll give up a couple of their young Bullpen Guys for him…jump at it! Even if it means keeping Jason one more year. But I think this is a good time to get a bunch of young talent for him as well. We’ve got good enough starting pitching to be a force next year without trying to find that “Big Bat.” Just play the “Little Bats” who actually Bat, instead of the ones who don’t simply because we went out and spent money on them.

by bimbobrandi on Oct 31, 2010 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Food for thought

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/contract-crowdsourcing-results-first-baseman/

The Fangraphs readership seems to think he’ll be getting something more like 2/16. I think it’s possible and that we’re undervaluing him due to the familiarity of the situation. If he’s able to secure a deal like that then it won’t be with us.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 31, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting that his 7th highest familiarity score is your boy Milton

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp_bat.cgi?I=overbly01:Lyle%20Overbay&st=career&compage=&age=

He’ll probably be under-valued in this market due to the idea that he lacks power. He had 37 double and 20 dingers last year in a year of offensive explosion in Toronto. He had a Babip of .285 while his career is .317. A career line of .274/.358/.447 could really come in handy even with a bit of age-related decline. Additionally, he appears to be a competent fielder. Lastly, he has a .362 wOBA over his career against righties while batting .309 wOBA against lefties. He’s never seemed to be an ego-driven player, so perhaps he would be a good fit as far as a guy that is humble enough to sit against the best lefties.

With him playing the majority of 1B, perhaps someone like Zobrist could work a platoon with 1B and 2B. Against righties we could see Zobrist at 2B and Overbay at 1B. Against lefties we could see like Zobrist at 1B and Roddy at 2B. I’m going to make a post about this so look for more at DockoftheRays.com.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 31, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Billy Butler


Trade Matt Moore and Kyle Lobstein to the Royals for Billy Butler.

by budman3 on Oct 31, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Butler has a ton of offensive potential

He’s already very good, he could soon become a monster. He is just getting into his arb years. As much potential as Moore has, Butler is something the Royals desperately need- production, and production now. There’s more left there, too.

by Daniel Berlyn on Oct 31, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

.300+ hitters don't grow on trees

I agree he is a below average 1st baseman but there is always the DH. He is a pure hitter and while only 24, will be pushed by Hosmer and Moustakas within the next year or two and they still have Billy Butler. Royals time frame is still 2 or 3 years off, so his value may be at it’s highest now.

by budman3 on Oct 31, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

ooops...

I meant they still have Alex Gordon to hope for.

by budman3 on Oct 31, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure he'll get more money than that

He got more than that after having an injury-plagued season where his OPS was 50 points lower and league OPS was 50 points higher. Why would he sign for less money after 2010?

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Nov 3, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got 5.5 with a 1 mil buyout, so yes, 6.5 is his total

Maybe he ends up with the White Sox for more cash, but he now will be playing the DH musical chairs game, and there are so many chairs. If other big-market clubs decide to chase Dunn and Ramirez, then Vlad could be left on the outside looking in.

People are also concerned about his drop in production in the second half of the season, and his OPS dropped by over 100 points.

by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 3, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

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