Rays Bullpen Begins Taking Form
Bullpen turnover compares well to death, taxes, and mid-term election: inevitable and only mildly interesting. But, every year, Andrew Friedman does his best to turn a mind-numbing soap opera into No Country for Old Men. This year may be his pièce de résistance, as he endeavors to build rebuild the 4th best bullpen in the majors (according to fielding independent pitching, FIP).
The Great Unknown that is Free Agency took Rafael Soriano, Dan Wheeler, Joaquin Benoit, Randy Choate, Grant Balfour, and Lance Cormier. If Rays bullpens usually constitute seven pitchers, then losing six nearly clears the slate. Friedman has taken the challenge with relish, clearly reading DRaysBay and The Process Report every day, searching for the best bargains, poking and prodding each buy-low option like an old lady at the farmer's market.
Well, with J.P. Howell back on our very own DL, with the recent signing of Joel Peralta, and with the the bullpen's empty form has begun shifting and twisting into the seething, heartless monster Dr. Friedmanstein had envisioned all along. Several of our predictions in the UH-FISH-OL Rosterbation Thread (part 1) have come true, while many of us have seen our predictions gone unrealized.
Let us take a moment to peer through the goggles of his brilliant madness and imagine how this 'pen will play out:
Closer: J.P. Howell
Fireman: Jake McGee (Closer in Howell's absence)
Mid-Reliever: Andy Sonnanstine
Mid-Reliever: Cory Wade
ROOGY: Joel Peralta
LOOGY: R.J. Swindle
Long-Man: Mike Ekstrom
Still, there's a chance for more changes: Adam Russell could take Wade's or Ekstrom's spot if mysterious trade for Jason Bartlett ever consumates. Moreover, the Rays still yet may pursue LOOGY Tim Byrdak, sending Swindle back to AAA. Also, as a Type-A free agent, the Rays may be able to bring the ol' STFD Aussie back -- so maybe the Rays tab Balfour for the traditional closer position. It's hard to say.
There's still a lot of time left -- and Spring Training competitions to sort through -- so a lot could yet change. How do you envision the 'pen shaking out over the next few moons? Please post your predictions or hopes below.
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Why not James Shields as the closer. At 4.5 mil this year it would be a bargain. After Barlett gets traded the payroll is down in the low 30’s. This keeps Garza in the rotation. McGee can be the 8th inning guy and the above mentioned relievers can fall into place.
by ta111 on Dec 17, 2010 7:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Is this meant as a joke?
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really want your closer to give up a dinger twice a game?
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Bullpen looks weak at best
My impression is AF will make a profit regardless of team performance. If SP perform, Rays may win 80 games. Otherwise we battle O’s for fifth place. I guess the fan support created this huge dump-too bad. I will not renew my 4 season tickets. I will go to weekend games in better seats below face value.
Umm...with the team the Rays have currently, neglecting any upgrades we still may make, this team is still better than an 80 win club.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
"Fans" like this give the Rays fanbase a bad name.
If you’re posting here you should know better than this.
raysfaninminnesota isn't bad.
I’m sure there’s a couple more, but for the most part they are terrible.
Can we make Gilliss the RUIN police?
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm so far out of the loop on this site
Gainful employment
by GomesSweetGomes on Dec 17, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ya know what?
I’ve been using the term RIUN on here for a while now… and I honestly don’t think I ever knew what it stood for.
Name 4 guys that were in our 08 pen, not named Percy. You're a disease-infested pedophile if you look it up.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Not you, you stupid a-hole
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Kurt Birkins!
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 17, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Wasnt it Kirk?
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Birkins
0.90 ERA in 10 appearances in 2008
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 17, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh, and I remember having a very down day when he got hurt, very down.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
that's quite a couple of comments to follow. I got nothin.
Listen up, doc, your rhyme's worth piss in the pot. You be pickin' the lock, when will it stop? You can never get to the top. Wack emcees make me laugh like my ticklish spot.
The Rays bullpen is taking the form of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree
right before it gets lit up
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Red Sox sign Jenks and Albers to go along with Bard and Papelbon and we
counter with sore armed JP, one year success Peralta and a couple dufuss’s named Caser
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Last year we countered everyone with and injury case and a piece off the scrap heap.
My memory is foggy…how did that turn out?
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
last yethis guy named Sorianoar we had everyone back *probably losing all six now) and we signed
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wow--what happened there^?
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I was trying to decipher it myself. That's a gem even for you.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, keyboard must like Friedman's moves and sabotaged the post
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I think I know where you were going.
I’ll attempt to counter the cryptic message.
I agree we had a few key pieces in place in 2010. However, none of them were what I considered impressive. Remember, in 2009, a lot of folks blamed our bullpen for our shortcomings. We had a good portion of those guys back. Even you had nothing but disdain for Balfour.
Also, our 2008 pen wasn’t supposed to be as good as it was. Most of those guys were just random pieces if memory serves me (I don’t remember how we acquired them).
My point is this, and it has been beaten to death on this site, the bullpen is never a sure thing. Good pieces turn to shit and items no one else wants become gold. The damn deviation of bullpen parts is insane from year to year. Short of a closer, it would be hard to truly find expected mean regression with a pen.
So, while I might not like not that Sori is gone, Benoit is gone, or that Balfour may not return, I am going with some blind trust in AF to do what he does. Do I expect a miracle like last year, no. But I do assume he will be able to put the proper pieces in play such that we are more than serviceable.
Remember, we had JP Howell as a damn closer. Not a power arm, not overly crafty, just hits his spots and gets outs.
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
by wtbudlight on Dec 17, 2010 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And yes, I would have loved to have gotten Jenks.
I’m sure that our FO had a good reason for not taking the plunge. I’m equally sure we’ll never know the real reason.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll be the first to admit that a bullpen is fickle from year to year
That being said look at my post below and i think i ask prudent questions, every Rays fan would like to know
I just don’t see any power arms left for the back end, so unless one of these unknown guys surprises it could be ugly
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I don't disagree with you completely.
But…we went to the WS without a back end power arm.
Granted, 1 year = SSS. But just saying it isn’t and end all, be all.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're forgetting the year Balfour had in '08 and JP
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I was referring to 2008 when JP was our closer and we went to the WS.
Did you mean ’09?
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
when i use the term back end, i don't just mean 9th inning
Balfour was sensational that year, as was Wheels and JP
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Agreed.
No question about it. That was exactly my point.
I guess you could call Balfour the “power arm” out of that mix.
I also won’t disagree that it is nice to have a “power arm” somewhere in 7,8,9.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what Russell is for, fingers crossed.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, you could call the guy throwing in the upper-90s the power arm
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 17, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Couples with talking to himself. Scary man.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"coupled"
shit I can’t type today.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But who's to say no one will be sensational this year?
McGee and Russell are both power arms anyway, and we still have no idea what will happen with the starters. That could put a great arm in the bullpen or stock with a young power arm and other talent. It’s too early for bridge jumping over a bullpen.
This
Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.
by staplemaniac on Dec 17, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, Rockies would like us to resign Balfour and trade him to them
Better be offering something nice if they wanna make this the NBA
Also Edwin Jackson is once again on the trading block. I still wouldn’t mind Mr. fluke No NO in the bull pen.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Sorry, forgot to post my prediction
CL Balfour…it will happen
SU/CL on certain days Jake McGee
MR Joel Perlata
MR Adam Russell
MR Cory Wade….. unless he impresses a lot, he is losing his job when JP comes back
Loogy: One of the Cesar’s vs R.J Swindle…..bleh, I will go with Swindle
LR: Andy Sonnanstine
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
ridiculous assumption?
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that has the earmarks of a bullpen from hell
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Post yours ole wise one
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Can you predict the future? I love the matchups with that pen
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Rauch could slip through the cracks still...
Closer: Jon Rauch
Fireman: Jake McGee
Mid-Reliever: Cesar Ramos
Mid-Reliever: Adam Russell
ROOGY: Joel Peralta
LOOGY: Cesar Cabral
Long-Man: Andy Sonnanstine
when JP returns – drop Ramos to LOOGY
PS. Mike Ekstrom as the long man?
Now that Bartlett deal is done
if Cabral is the PTBNL, pencis in RJ Swindle. Swindle and Ramos can duke it out for LOOGY on JP’s return.
Questions i'd love to ask Andrew and get honest answers to
1- Was Jenks offered a two year deal?
2- Was Adam Miller considered in Rule 5?
3- Was Kerry Wood offered a one year deal and the CL job?
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Wood wouldn't have signed with the Rays for what he did with the Cubs.
That’s called loyalty…he took a smaller contract than he could have gotten otherwise. And anyway, I’d rather look at some of the other names still out there: Balf, Rauch, maybe Dotel.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like I'm the only one who wouldn't mind Dotel at all.
Strikes out a bunch and if he can limit his walks a little he could be more than serviceable.
Dotel is Percy II
His arm is very questionable and unreliable, especially if you pencil him in as a closer. He hasn’t been able to limit his walks..no reason to think that will begin now, IMO.
If he can get back to around 3 BB/9, I'll take it for around 2-3mil.
He’s had over 60 IP the last three years and prior to 2005 he was around 100 a year. If he can be had for a couple million you could really do a lot worse. The guy strikes out a ton of batters.
He's averaged 10.5, 10.8, 12.4, and 12 K/9 the last 4 years.
Percy consistently sat around 7 before we signed him.
Percy health=Dotel health
Just when you are ready to rely on him, they come up lame.
Also, no team took Adam Miller. I think that should say something about him.
He may be much more of a wildcard than many of us are assuming.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
i will keep a close watch on the success of Cabral and Miller this season and report my findings here as needed
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Oh, I
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
...'m sure you will.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
The first two Rule 5ers were from Cleveland's system
I believe a team can only have 2 players taken from it (in the major-league portion, anyway) so Miller was a non-factor after pick #2.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 17, 2010 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, that's true....didn't think of that.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
My thoughts on these questions:
1. I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable giving Jenks 2 years. There just seems to be too much downside.
2. Like slo said. No one took him. The bigger issue to me with the rule 5 is not protecting A-Rod.
3. meh
Steve - The ad looks great. I picked up about 5 of them.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome, thanks! I'm going to run our thank you thread in about an hour.
We’ll have to figure out getting people copies and such.
Where is it in the paper? Just curious.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
Page 23.
Do you know if they put the ads on the online paper? I’ll check
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh they do, forgot...I'll have to check that.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
They do. Look up today's edition. Page T-23
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sweet deal.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
I love the copy!
Eric Calderone, who will graduate Saturday with a bachelor’s degree in music, has drawn more than 450,000 sets of eyeballs to a YouTube video of his metal cover of Bad Romance. It sounds like the Scorpions meets Iron Maiden meets Avenged Sevenfold. Most parents can only dream that their children graduate college with such a marketable skill.
@thekidpow
No names printed with the ad. I assume that was due to space?
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 17, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
The names and a thank you thread are coming up at 9 AM.
But yeah, due to space.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
oic
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 17, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
To be frank, that pen looks like flaming shit.
But its December 17. I can’t doubt that this is the final state of the pen highly enough.
@thekidpow
It doesn't look great but I also think it's better than some people think
I wouldn’t worry quite yet as no one wants Aussie’s Type A or his 3 year demands so he may come back to us, I would still like to put Niemann in there. The wild card to me is how long til JP is healthy because Sonnanstine, Perlata, McGee, Howell, Russell and Balfour is 6 very solid arms. Then you can either find another FA, trade for one, put Niemann in the pen or have Wade, Ekstrom and the 2 Cesar’s fight for who looks most impressive.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
If (when) we trade Garza, I would be very surprised if the return wasn't: high end prospect bat + ML ready relief arm or decent ML bat with upside + ML ready relief arm.
There are just too many moving parts right now to make a statement about the 2011 pen.
This is my least favorite time of year. Rosterbation bores me to death.
@thekidpow
How far can we really be though?
I think everyone was starting to believe in the pen when we were about to sign Jenks and he wasn’t even that great last season. I really think we will be just fine.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
I think you and SF1 were the only people believing in the pen at that point. The only substantiation was a tweet by Craigy Calcs, who I love, but don't ever recall breaking news in the past.
And to answer your question: Bartlett trade, Garza trade (?), FA signings, unknown Friedman-like moves.
Trying to predict Friedman is good when there’s an obvious solution (I’m thinking here of Gregg Zaun and the Benoit thing), but no one predicted Soriano. That situation codified in like, an evening. Bullpens are so fragile and fungible that there’s no point in saying anything until AT LEAST spring training. IMO, at least.
@thekidpow
I don't remember me and SF1 ever agreeing on anything
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Please, please, please POW DO NOT repeat DO MOT
ever lump me in with Joeybw—he drank the kool-aid and it’s now seeped into his brain
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Garza will not return anyone significant with a MLB resume
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if you trade a top of the rotation SP (1-3) for a reliever, shame on you
Rays will get MLB near ready prospects for Garza
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I suggest people read the recent post by our friend R.J. Anderson
at the Process Report before making any dire pronouncements.
you were encouraged by that post? I wasn't, here's why
1-Sori, Balfour, Dotel and Rauch are out of the Rays $1 mil dollar price range
2- The rest of the relievers on there aren’t worth a piece of shit
3- Read RJ’s glowing report on Jenks when he thought we had him, and then his ‘red flag’ comments after he signed with the Sox
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3- Read RJ’s glowing report on Jenks when he thought we had him, and then his ‘red flag’ comments after he signed with the Sox
He does have a point here.
thanks fireman, and thanks for following me on twitter
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You make some assumptions that may be true,
but it is at least equally possible they are mistaken. For example, you seem to assume that the Rays will not sign a reliever for more than $1 million. I don’t think that is true. I think they do want to acquire a bunch of arms at minimum cost so that they can afford to go bigger on someone who has a better resume. I think the real issue for the Rays is to avoid multi-year commitments, and on that score I think it possible some of those whom R.J. lists might be available. In fact, by accumulating a group of inexpensive pitchers, the Rays may be setting themselves up to swoop in when they find the right fit.
Second, assuming that the rest of the relievers are not useful is to ignore the realities of the game. A lot of their performance is based on how they are used and on the ability of a team to maximize the talents they do have or to tweak their pitching so as to bring out their ability. This denigration of any major leaguer ignores the fact that there is always significant talent which got them this far and particularly for relief pitchers it is often accessible to teams. I also think you ignore the still available Qualls and others on his list about whom we may disagree but all of whom could be reasonably seen as solid acquisitions.
I am not sure what I am missing in R.J.‘s reports on Jenks that indicates he red flagged him after the signing. What I see is that he said “Jenks would’ve fit the Rays. He would’ve been welcomed with open arms. Ultimately, the team didn’t close the deal for whatever reasons.” He then notes people may conjecture as they like, but should remain aware there are other options still out there. I don’t think he ever said that Jenks was the only good choice. The fact that he places him behind 4 other pitchers on the list is not red-flagging; it is simply presenting a particular set of data to point out that there are other available pitchers besides Jenks who have performed comparatively well recently.
It seems to me that it is not “drinking the Kool-Aid” to recognize that the Rays do not act precipitously, that they allow the market to work itself out rather then setting the market themselves, and then they move to acquire assets they consider valuable at the price. To jump on them because in December they did not sign someone’s favorite is awfully premature. Of course the available talent is not infinite, but it is also not as limited as narrow vision would have it.
As examples, Benoit was signed on March 4. I don’t expect to find another gem like him, but the point is he was still there after spring training began. Cormier was signed on Jan, 16. Other contributors to the Rays over the past few years include signing Pena on Jan 29, Dan Johnson on Jan 11 and a trade for Aybar on Jan 17.
R/A!!!
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
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by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm trying to stay optimistic
And I know there are still moves to be made. But seeing it in black and white like this does not give me the warm fuzzies.
We're all entitled to our own opinions...if you prefer to be more pessimistic, that's fine.
If you expect Woodrum to not be optimistic, though….I mean, have you read any of his stuff? I think you’re expecting the wrong things from the wrong writer, if that’s the case.
Anyway, I don’t really see him judging the pen, moreso commenting that it’s a work in progress, here’s where it stands, and Fried has done good work in the past.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Haha, nice.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Off-topic but....
Rays/Cubs fan - AnotherCubsBlog.net
Mons
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Thee DH
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've looked into that private business a number of times myself
My privates have also looked into that business.
My business (read: bid-ness) has also looked into there privately.
Rays also let the Sox beat them at their own game
Friedman is usually the master of the minor league signings, but this year saw Andrew Miller and Rich Hill go to Bosyon—two live arms for pretty much nothing
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Don't forget Brandon Duckworth
Signing every POS out there isn’t particularly astute, their just treating the market like Dresden and burning it down
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
For the investment Hill and Miller were no-brainers
Had Friedman signed them DRB would be having multiples
Hell, Joeybw exploded at the Corey Wade deal
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If they rule at life
Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.
by staplemaniac on Dec 17, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I wish Joey would explode, good low-risk moves, for sure, but how many of those guys do you need? Wade, Swindle, Peralta, Howell, De Los Santos, Cabral, the two guys in the Bartlett trade,
and I’m sure I missed a few. Don’t get caught up in the bigger names of an Andrew Miller, a guy that has shown absolutely nothing at any level since he was slinging it for UNC. I actually like the Hill move quite a bit and think that he could be a real stud in the pen, but he finished last year with the team, so it was kind of a no-brainer to bring him back. You can’t praise that approach with one hand and then wave it off with another, just because, in your infinite wisdom, you’ve never heard of these guys before. Who’s to say that Ekstrom, Peralta, and Wade won’t be dynamite against righties, while having a couple of lefties and a guy that can get both helps solidify this pen. I think that’s what gets me the most, who cares about the name of a reliever, Kerry Wood got 2/20 from the Indians because of his name, not his skill. We don’t do that here, and God bless them for it.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
i'm not talking about spending a lot of money, but c'mon
Swindle and Eckstrom are suddenly going to be Mossi and Narleski? (look them up)
Most of the guys you mention we already know what they can do, although i’m anxious to see Matt Bush and Adam Russell
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I don't know what to tell you if you can't imagine Swindle could be effective against lefties.
by firemangreg on Dec 17, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
he's not 22 yo, so why hasn't he stuck somewhere by now?
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Could have said the same thing about Balfour before he came to the Rays.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Grant got hurt before he came to the Rays
He was on his way to sticking in Minny before that.
by nomoredevil on Dec 17, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Going by this, Hill and Miller are awful signings because we know that they're a guaranteed piece of shit, they are a dump in a box, marked guaranteed
If you live by the theory that a breakout season is unpredictable, then bring in as many Swindle’s on minor league contracts that you can.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
You're wrong you stupid fucking hillbilly
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
so in your infinite wisdom you are guaranteeing, 0% chance that Miller and hill are awful????
Then how about you give 1000-1 odds that either of them have a season with a FIP under 4 min 50 IP.
Bump it to 3.75 and 60 innings and you're on.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 18, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
ekstrom on the Ml roster is embarassing
by RaysTheRoof on Dec 17, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I just said that in my comment. Everyone was "horrified". You knew the game was over when he came in, etc
To start a season knowing he’s going to be a key cog in the bullpen would suck. embarrassing may have been the wrong word. I believe in he was just holding a spot for someone in ’10, correct?
with bullpens that fickle, quantity is actually very important
you throw a lot of shit at the wall and hope something sticks. red sox have been doing that very well.
by RaysTheRoof on Dec 17, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I see your reading comprehension is as bad as any take that you've ever made, do better or get the fuck out
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Stevesie, you asked for this
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unleashed the dragons. Oy.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 17, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
fuck you, you got fired from writing for this site remember?
by RaysTheRoof on Dec 17, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For one of the dumbest reasons imaginable. I never claim to be great at playing politics, but as far as proving you wrong, I'm a fucking ace.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 18, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
POS is relative
Didn’t you say the more arms brought in to see what sticks is your approach of choice?
that's exactly what i thought the Rays would do
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
not guys with the resume and ceiling of the two i mentioned
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Andy Miller has done jack squat since he left NCAA, his tombstone will read.
“Part of a deal that brought one of the best hitters of all time to the Detroit Tigers.”
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Miller has been terrible since college.
His Velo is in the dumps now, and he has no idea how to pitch. He’s cooked. Rich Hill is decent, but I’d rather have a Cory Wade. He’s at least shown some promise since his injury.
so you're excited about a Swindle who is how old, but not Miller a 25 yo LHP
who sometimes mature later rather than sooner
look at the career of Sandy Koufax
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
It's not a matter of maturing
Miller’s stuff was a lot better in college. How many pitchers get it back once they lose it?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 17, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
See above
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
SF1, I bet you believe the world is ending in 2012
You act as if our team is garbage and we are doomed. I don’t understand. We have 6 really good starting pitchers, one of the best third baseman in the game and a team that is full of young talent and more importantly heart. We also have a front office that is constantly complimented and respected by the rest of MLB for the moves they make. Do we have holes? Of course we do. We need to find a couple of bats and some bullpen help. AF’s track record suggest that he will get this done. I realize October baseball in 2011 is going to be tough but we are in the ALE, tell me a year in which the road to the post season is not tough. I do know that I will go to every game and watch the Rays play exciting baseball and leave it all on the field. As a fan that is all I can ask for.
"stats are for losers" Raheem Morris
"more importantly heart"--where i stopped reading
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LoL
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Should have said Grit.
Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.
by staplemaniac on Dec 17, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Understandable, I used some big words which I am sure you had difficulty trying to sound out
"stats are for losers" Raheem Morris
i may not understand 'big words', but i do understand reply and when to use it
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess all we can say is, we'll see how the season goes
but i’m sure if it goes poorly and the bullpen is to blame, this thread will be long forgotten
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Same with the reverse.
Shall we go dumpster diving aka digging through the shit you’ve spewed in the past?
Posted this yesterday, but this is my personal favorite sf1 nugget, especially in light of recent threads.
12/04/10 by sternfan1:
As many of you have seen, the off season me, is one of calm and optimism, the in game person becomes very reactionary. So i’ll close with the words ‘In Andrew, we trust’
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/12/4/1854900/adrian-gonzalez-to-red-sox-aka-rays-season-over
till that fuckhead allowed Jenks to go to the Red Sox and Wood to sign for nothing
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Wood isn't very good. You need to worry less about name cache and more about performance.
His FIP has been over 4 the last two years. Why are you acting like a spurned 14 YO girl over a league average reliever?
You do realize that Wood was offered 2 years by the White Sox?
He also would of been with Thorton, Sale and Crain competing to be the closer. He was loyal to the Cubs. No way we would of gotten him for the same deal
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Dear Santa,
Will you please bring SF1 a relief pitcher with a big name for Christmas. His skills can be deminished and he can be below average statisically as long as his name looks good on paper. Cost is not a factor. Thanks
"stats are for losers" Raheem Morris
you mean like Soriano?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
as long as there's a FreeZo, that will never cease
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
FG looks at Peralta/Wood vs. the 3 year contract reliever
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/kerry-wood-joel-peralta-and-the-3-year-reliever-club/
Pretty good stuff, though I would take Bill James projections with a 24 pound block of salt
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions
.
Given the information that we have at our disposal, there’s little separating Wood and Peralta from the three-year reliever club, other than cash and commitment length. Kudos to the Cubs and Rays for adding quality bullpen pieces without paying a premium price over a number of years for a volatile type of free agent.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
One thing people seem to be forgetting about building the bullpen is the fact that we have more arms in our system than anyone east of the Mississipp...
Torres, Cobb, McGee, DLS, etc., etc. We also don’t knwo what’s done with our 6 above average starters.
Rays hate starting arb clocks early, esp for bullpen help.
I’ve got huge doubts about torres being up before roster expansion.
by RaysTheRoof on Dec 17, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'll give my hopefuls for the pen
Bush, Russell, McGee,Peralta, Howell (whenever), and at some point Scuman and Quate
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Our bullpen situation is actually starting to come together
and it’s completed by signing one more guy (Balfour, Rauch, Qualls, etd) and either our 6th starter, or a reliever we acquire as part of a package of trading a starter.
McGee, Russell, Peralta, Sonny, Swindle, Balfour/Rauch, Niemann/Helly or trade pickup
Not flashy, but odds are it will get the job done and then some.
Would really like to see Rauch…although I could get greedy and ask for both. Cost at this point should (hopefully) be going down.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 17, 2010 10:53 AM EST reply actions
We need to get a guy or two that can get out lefties and righties
McGee and Howell might be those guys, but there’s certainly some questions there. We have guys that can get out righties or lefties, but not both, that is where a Balfour is what we should be targeting.
Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 17, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
"We need to get a guy or two that can get out lefties and righties"
This is my biggest concern with the bullpen as it stands. Otherwise I’m really not all that worried, especially if we end up with Russell (assuming he’s healthy and all).
by firemangreg on Dec 17, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Cory Wade is pretty good at that, but he shouldn't be our best guy at that IMO.
Russell may also be that guy.
Closer
I gurantee the Rays opening day roster will include a legit closer who has more than 8 career saves in his career(, Balfour and that does not include Howell (who probably won’t pitch until May).
Big Game James
I tend to agree. I’d have to think that with Niemann, Garza, Price, Helickson, Davis, and Shields battling it out in spring training for a starting spot, Shields will end up being odd man out. He’s going to have to go somewhere, and the pen seems the most reasonable place for him to end up. Dare I say, with Shields numbers last year, the Rays want to get as much quality use out of him especially if the whispered trade rumors were to come to fruition in say June or July. The bullpen offers him enough quality performance opportunities.
I'm not a fan of putting any of our starters in the pen,
but if any of them were go to there, I would prefer it to be Niemann. He has already shown that he can do well coming from the bullpen, and his injury history has me wondering if his arm will ever be strong enough for him to pitch starter’s innings for a whole season.
For all of you who think Cory Wade is the 2nd coming
I was unaware, maybe some of you are too
3/16/2010: Wade will undergo exploratory shoulder surgery Wednesday and be sidelined at least three months, MLB.com reports.
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Bartlett trade finally done
I just creamed my pants when I checked out Gomes’ 2010 AA numbers. He should be pretty nifty in the pen.

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