If the rumor that KC traded Greinke to Milwaukee is true, is there a chance that Soria is also available?
I also wonder if they are prepared to deal Butler or Kila.
over 1 year ago
bobr
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Greinke demanded a trade from KC. While there's a chance, I'd say it's low.
Moore thinks KC is ‘competitive’ and that Grienke is expendable because he’s not going to be a ‘top-tier ace’.
In other words, check back in 2 months or so when reality sets in and KC has the major’s worst record.
So I should just change my sig to
I hate everyone of color, along with invalids, the old, and the retarded?
by firemangreg on Jul 21, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
*2 months into the season
So I should just change my sig to
I hate everyone of color, along with invalids, the old, and the retarded?
by firemangreg on Jul 21, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think so?
If the deal is what they say, it seems to me he is trying to set KC up to contend when their prospects begin to arrive at the end of this year and to start next. The only one to see AAA last year was Moustakas. He is getting 2 major league regulars known for defense, but neither is an offensive difference maker. And one pitcher is a raw reliever with the upside to become a closer. The other is in the low minors.
In the meantime, he is left with a rotation that not only has no ace but probably doesn’t even have an established #3 starter. How does he expect to contend with Davies, Chen, Hochevar, Mazzaro and O’Sullivan as his starters? Who am I forgetting? Meche is in the bullpen I think; Bannister is gone. So is Bullington. I don’t think any of their prospects is ready to start the year. The top ones were either in AA last year or are probably relievers.
I don’t know their system that well, and who knows what Moore is thinking. But do you think he really expects to contend in 2011? And even so, might not Soria bring him major league talent to improve the team in 2011 and be replaceable by Jeffress &/or Meche?
Actually Chen is gone also.
Vin Mazzaro is the ace of that staff now, that should be enough said. Give me Soria
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Oops, I had forgotten.
So who is their other starter?
Mazzaro, Hocheaver, O'Sullivan, Davies and Meche/AAA arm
Ew
Soria fits the Friedman type move so well. A very effective arm where we need help and no one has even mentioned Soria in trade rumors, it would be an incredible out of no where Friedman move.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Wow. I had not read this before I posted.
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/12/19/the-mexicutioner/
Jason seems to have the same idea.
Also should be mentioned that Greinke was "traded" to the Nats first
But he refused to go to Washington. They had offered Espinosa, Storen and prospects. Hey guys with the really expensive RF’er and the injured ace, we will take a similuar package for Garza. Storen, Norris and….someone should do it.
However, I like Jason’s idea much better. Trading Niemann lets us keep Garza who I sorta think is great, gets us one of the best closers and let’s not forget, a spot for Hellickson.
Make it happen Andrew!
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
Is there anything left of the Brewers farm system?
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Welp, they still have Jeffries
Unless the Royals are just clearing a 40 man spot and he’s the PTBNL, in that case, it’s getting awfully empty down there. Is Gamel still a prospect?
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
I thought he was part of the deal?
7:30am: The Brewers acquired ace righty Zack Greinke from the Royals, confirms ESPN’s Buster Olney. Milwaukee will reportedly send shortstop Alcides Escobar, center fielder Lorenzo Cain, and pitching prospects Jeremy Jeffress and Jake Odorizzi to the Royals for Greinke, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt, and $2MM. Credit Jim Breen of Bernie’s Crew with the scoop last night, with an assist to Andrew Wagner of OnMilwaukee.com.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Rumored to be
He was changed to PTBNL but it may still be him and the Royals need to clear a roster spot first.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
I still think KC values Soria more than most teams because of the saves.
Robinson Tejada might be more likely.
A 3 Way Trade might make everyone happy
Rays ship Garza to Rangers for Tanner Scheppers, Derek Holland, and Chris Davis—as is mentioned here—and the Rays ship them to Royals for Butler and Soria. Royals complete their rebuilding with plenty of MLB-ready players, Rangers get the best pitcher still available, and the Rays get a solid 1B/DH bat, along with a top flight relief arm who has a very cost-controlled and team-friendly contract.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions
If we could get both Butler and Soria for Garza
That would be just great. Help this offense even more and help shore up the pen.
12/8/10- The day Urban Meyer resigned as coach and the day Crawford signed with the Suxs. One of the worst days in sports ever!
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 19, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
and a completely new team in KC...one that would be fun to watch
C: Jason Kendall
1B: Alex Gordon
2B: Mike Aviles
SS: Alcides Escobar
3B: Wilson Betemit
LF: Melky Cabrera
CF: Lorenzo Cain
RF: Jeff Francoeur
DH: Chris Davis
SP: Kyle Davis, Vin Mazzaro (from the David DeJesus trade), Derek Holland, Tanner Scheppers (may need some time in AAA), Sean O’Sullivan
RP: Jake Jeffries and Robinson Tejeda head up their bullpen
This is a nice base to build with, along with their deep minor league system that could help KC compete in the very near future.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
high end minor league pitching prospects, low on hitting
If Gordon and Davis develop this lineup will have plenty of power.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
They just moved Gordon to LF, IIRC
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 19, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
This is a huge if
But IF they have any brains left they will go with an OF of LF Gordon CF Cain RF Blanco
They should just pretend they never signed Cabrera or Francouer.
Escobar and Alives up the middle and soon Motsoukas and Hosmer at the corners. Now that’s a pretty awesome team….once their pitching is ready, anyway.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
I'll have what the National fans are having over there on their board
So they think in the end we will trade a SP and I agree with them. I also think they are one of the most likely destinations for said SP but they want Hellickson.
Good luck Washington Werth’s
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
They cant want all day long
Apparently Storen and Espinosa were in the package they were willing to send KC for Greinke. I like both of those guys – especially Espinosa.
by Jason Collette on Dec 19, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
I love Storen
And while I am a fan of both Desmond and Espinosa, while on the subject, Jordan Zimmmerman also, we really should get a few guys we need in the majors and a prospect or 2. Something like Drew Storen, Derek Norris, Tyler Clippard and I don’t know, some 4th guy for Garza. How’s that? I mean if we’re getting Storen and Norris, I already like it.
Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?
he really held his own in Washington's bullpen last year
and it would be a great move for the Rays to acquire him…and solves Friedman’s woes about not having enough starting pitching depth. Can use Storen in bullpen—possibly as closer competition for McGee and he can always be stretched out to a starter if an injury would happen…same with Sonny and McGee.
Storen, Norris and Clippard sounds like a very good trade to me.
Some really good options out there right now for Garza. Whether a Texas deal, or Washington, or a 3-way netting Butler and Soria, there are some major moves that can happen to upgrade the Rays in 2011 and into the future.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I still prefer the Butler, Soria trade
Then again I bet a lot of people do. But unlike most people I would rather get Butler than Soria.
12/8/10- The day Urban Meyer resigned as coach and the day Crawford signed with the Suxs. One of the worst days in sports ever!
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 19, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
The Drew Storen obsession is disturbing.
Wanting to trade Garza with the big return being a non-elite reliever (or two) is myopic. If you’re totally on board with trading Garza and the main factor is to upgrade the bullpen, then how about just move Niemann to the bullpen and save ourselves the embarrassment of making an awful trade.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 7:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No thanks
Garza has bee worth nearly 10 wins since 2007
Soria has been worth about 8 wins since 2008
Small money difference between the two, I’ll still take Garza. Niemann is a different story
by Jason Collette on Dec 19, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
right cuz Derek Norris is a throw-in
top 50 (and top 30 by some) MLB prospect at a premium position with high-ceiliing potential is worthless. The total package of Norris, Storen and Clippard is a pretty decent return for a pitcher who many on this site say is barely an average to above average starter.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
"A pretty decent return"?
What’s the basis?
Garza isn’t exactly like Dan Haren when the A’s dealt him — Haren was superior and cheaper — but he’s good enough to bring back more than bad Edwin Jackson and busted Scott Kazmir netted.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
On the basis of John Sickels, Keith Law, and Baseball America
Norris is a damn good return in and of himself. Storen and Clippard complete the package, but it centers on him.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Part of me wants this to happen so when Law tore the deal apart you'd realize how awful this propsal is.
The other part of me doesn’t, because I actually enjoy my team making good moves.
If the Nats offer this package, the Rays are better off taking Brett Jackson, the catcher, the shortstop, and the other top prospect from Chicago. That’s a hell of a lot better.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
if you like Chrinos more than Norris, then fine
I’m saying I like Norris’ ceiling potential more than Chirinos, but maybe that’s just me, but Sickels isn’t high on Chirinos. I’m happy for quality over quantity.
I think passing on Norris is a mistake. But of course you know more. Hell, I’m wrong for even disagreeing with you. My bad.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
and Steve just got done reminding us below of a "decent" return being a top 30 prospect
Norris gives us that in and of himself. So if this is a bad move, then Steve and PGP is wrong, yes?
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I do think things have changed slightly since then...at least, the market has.
The SP market is so dry, there’s no reason Friedman shouldn’t hold out for more than his worth. I guess the trick is how high he can realistically shoot.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 19, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad you're getting the new version of this argument out of the way:
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
You clearly have your finger on the pulse of the market.
of course it’s not the best deal he can get
only way CC signs a deal like that is if he is willing to take less to stay. But on the open market he’s not gonna make more than 15 mil a season. There is more evidence that agrees with my assessment than yours at this point. Other than one stat which says what he’s worth, value is better defined by what teams are willing to pay. The odds seem against a team willing to give CC a Beltran/Lee/Soriano type contract.
by raysfaninminnesota
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
ahh, I bow to your superiority
since I’m clearly pointing to my own opinion. Even you didn’t think he’d get 20/season. I don’t know if many did. But because I believe CC wouldn’t bank this much money, or that GMs would start giving out stupid contracts, that clearly means I’m wrong about this because I’m pointing out the value of Norris by what other people have said and not myself.
Yes, this makes sense. And me being wrong makes you right? It doesn’t have anything to do with you. But if you want to tear someone down because God forbid someone have a different opinion than you, go ahead and be a smug ass.
IF the Cubs offer this, then it is a very good package. And it may make it a better package. But don’t give me this bullshit about how Law will tear the Nationals deal to pieces…especially if Shaun Marcum netted Brett Lawrie (Law had Lawrie ranked 47th, Norris 31st). Garza netting Norris seems legit.
So in case you dont’ get this, let me spell it out for you one last time. I’m not saying Washington represents the best deal…because it depends what teams are actually offering. The Washington proposal isn’t bad. It’s just not as good as Chicago. But because I included relievers in the deal, you want to bitch about it.
You like the Chicago deal. That’s fair. IF they offered that, it’s a great return. I respect that. But for some reason, you have to tear my proposal down, even though, by other people’s standards here, it’s legimate. It may not be as good as your deal, but God forbid someone disagree with you.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
And again, didn't say I liked Chirinos more than Norris.
I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, but I like the package of Jackson, the SS, Chirinos, and the other top prospect (that’s one top 50 prospect in Jackson, and perhaps one other top 100 prospect) more than Norris and two relievers. Yet again, I dislike your package because of the non-Norris piece and feel as a whole it’s inferior to the Cubs’ potential offer.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Is this an actual rumored offer by the Cubs or just a package you would like from their system?
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Also, who would we want from the Rangers if they were involved?
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
And I like Norris as a better centerpiece.
I have no problem that you prefer the quality of the package of Chicago. I just don’t understand why you have to bitch about a very reasonable Washington offer. Substitute something else for one or both of the arms in the deal. But having one of those arms as a side piece to the package isn’t a bad thing.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I'm not sure what those links accomplish.
I haven’t 1) frowned at Norris’ inclusion or 2) suggested he’s the problem. He’s a good prospect. Perhaps the Nationals’ second best. It’s the other members of your trade that make no sense.
Two-and-a-half years of Joe Blanton brought back BA’s #76 prospect. In terms of team lists, the A’s got the Phils second and fourth best prospects for Joe Blanton. Matt Garza has the whole perceived upside going for him and an additional half season, along with the branding that “ALCS MVP” and no hitter thrower brings. I don’t think anyone would say they want a package similar to Joe Blanton in exchange for Garza.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think the biggest return factor should be the FA market and availability of SP
Going back to 2008, the market had a larger amount of trade candidates and future FAs. But looking at the 2012 list, there is almost nobody good that will be available or young, or both.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with Friedman dragging this out and making GMs kneel before him before he completes a trade.
With the market as bare as it is, AF should be ready to destroy someone.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 19, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Scary thought
Edwin Jackson may be the best FA SP in 2012. That’s some depressing market.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Since leaving he's been very good.
He’s going to get paid well after the season. Good guy, glad it worked out.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
I can just imagine Scott Boras with him next off-season
HE’S JUST AS GOOD AS CLIFF LEE.
MONIES NOW!
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
He's a lot better than Oliver Perez and Bronson Arroyo.
If the market doesn’t collapse again, he’s getting at least 3/36.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
At least
He’s actually only 28. Most pitchers are 2yrs older or worse or both.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
He's always been okay
Very inconsistent, but with good stuff. He’s only put it together for the first half of 2009.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, he's still been an above average pitcher the last few seasons.
Inconsistent, but overall good. He’s put it together, much to his credit…never thought it would happen watching him throw here.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 19, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe being with the White Sox, he'll finally get it together
They’ve been very successful with SP.
That second half with Detroit to Arizona was pretty brutal.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
When PGP valued Garza at the beginning of the off-season, he pegged Garza's total value around a Top 30 position prospect.
And considering pitching is at a premium right now, we should hope to do better than that.
I don’t know how that package would all add up – it depends on how much you value Norris. I’d have to think about it….ideally, I’d love to get position prospects back as opposed to pitchers, especially relievers. Our bullpen is shaping up already for this upcoming season, so I don’t think we need to keep going out of our way to look for more relievers to trade for.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 19, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
It's not about the relievers
it’s about Norris. Take a look at his minor league numbers. Patience (89 walks), power (21 HR), defense is still good (threw out 52% of runners). Most likely begins this year as a top 25-30 guy, and if he has another year like this one, he’ll rise into top 10-15.
Clippard and Storen add cheap MLB ready contributors to the total package. But Norris is the prize.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think RJ answered this above.
Norris looks great and he’d be fine, but I’m curious why we’d want the relievers instead of other players in the their system.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 19, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Norris+Strasburg please
Strasburg is a great throw-in, he’s injured after all, what a bust lol.
I don’t know why everyone is so high on Storen as some big return. He’s just a RP.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Adam Russell is basically Storen.
And we got him (and more) for Jason Bartlett.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 19, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
BUT THE SAVES
HE DOES NOT HAVE
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Dec 19, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
depends on what is the main piece of the deal
if Storen is part of the deal, nothing wrong with it.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
then substitute someone else then
Norris is the centerpiece. Storen is a cheap MLB-ready arm. But if someone else projects better than by all means, get them instead.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, I like Norris more than any single prospect we've talked about as a possible fit.
The issue is that the rest of Washington’s system is lacking. Unless they give us both Espinosa and Norris, I think I’d rather get the Jackson et al deal from Chicago.
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