Sickels Top 20 Rays Prospects...

by td32 on Dec 19, 2010 10:57 PM EST

Nice to see Hellickson rated the top RHP prospect in the minors and Moore the top LHP not named Aroldis. A lot of high grades thrown out there. This system is still top of the line, and with all of the draft picks in 2011, along with whoever the Rays get once they trade a starter, the future is most definitely bright!

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/12/19/1886380/tampa-bay-rays-top-20-prospects-for-2011

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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I hated this list.

Other than the releivers which he was high on, he was down on a lot of players. (Cobb, Torres, Beckham, etc…)

by mr. maniac on Dec 19, 2010 11:25 PM EST reply actions

He has Torres at 7

I wouldn’t call that down. He is being too harsh on Beckham though.

by BaconBits on Dec 20, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions

definitely didn't seem particularly down on Torres

and he was high on alot of the 2010 draftees that I’m not necessarilly as high on. Too low on Beckham in my opinion as well, and a bit dissapointed to see a C+ to Wilking despite the strong peripherals, projectability, and at least fairly polished secondaries to pair with his fastball (when compared to Cruz). Still, I expected 12 to 14 B- or higher types from him, and that is what I got (I have 12, but I grade a touch harder than John I think). A few guys I’d move around, but is about what I expected on the system as a whole. The entire thing is just so deep. Our prospects in the 30s would get top 20 consideration in alot of organizations, and he even acknowledged that.

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 20, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed partially.

High on the newbies and low on Cobb, Cruz, Barnese, and Beckham. I don;t see downgrading Beckham because he hasn’t lived up to expectations.

by mr. maniac on Dec 20, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions

I hated his grade, not his position.

by mr. maniac on Dec 20, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions

some of his grades were low

but he was still singing their praises. He seemed to be saying the reason for the low grade was it being a product of the pitching depth of the Rays system.

by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 19, 2010 11:38 PM EST reply actions

Ryan Brett, not an "A"?

HE TRIES HARD ON EVERY PLAY!

Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.

by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT

by Doug09 on Dec 20, 2010 2:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions

Then E for effort

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 20, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions

as the prophecy predicts, ryan brett will continue to defy the experts on his way to a trunkful of MVP trophies

@thekidpow

by PlayOnWords on Dec 20, 2010 9:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

cynical or not of sickels, he still grades over half of the top 20 as B- or above.

that’s disgusting.

@thekidpow

by PlayOnWords on Dec 20, 2010 9:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions

Very few teams have everyone in their top 20 at C+ or above

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 20, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions

Beckham will still be underage to drink when the AA season starts

He needs to be cut a break, I think it’s way too early to call him a bust but I guess they can’t help themselves when the guy is taken before Posey.

Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?

by joeybw on Dec 20, 2010 9:47 AM EST reply actions

Actually he would of just had his 21st birthday, my bad

But that is very young for Double A

Price, Garza, Shields, Davis, Hellickson is too awesome, Niemann for closer?

by joeybw on Dec 20, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

agreed

by rglass44 on Dec 20, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions

if he starts in AA

by RaysTheRoof on Dec 20, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

If he was a 5th round draft pick

He’d probably be rated even lower than that. The tools aren’t as good as they were when he was drafted, and the skills haven’t developed particularly well either.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 20, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

Why, exactly, do you hate the troops?

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 20, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions

Everyone says the tools aren't as good generally, but I've never seen a first-hand report on it since this time last year when people were complaining about his lower half.

by rglass44 on Dec 20, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

same

i constantly ask for sources. never get any

by daveh33 on Dec 20, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

JJ Cooper basically said what Brick did in his FSL Top 20 chat

J.J. Cooper: Scouts like his bat more than his glove. There was some thought that he was starting to figure it out at the plate in the second half, after a pretty poor first half that saw him flumoxed by even average fastballs. As far as defensively, it’s hard to see him sticking at shortstop long-term as he doesn’t have the hands or the feet for the position, and he’s only an average runner. To be honest, I wouldn’t have had him in a top 30, as one scout put it, if you didn’t know he was a $6 million man, he wouldn’t have stood out.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Dec 20, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions

That is the only first hand report I've seen since last year.

I saw him last spring, and I don’t get the fielding knocks. Footwork is an issue, but so what. That’s something that’s easily fixable.

by rglass44 on Dec 20, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions

I've heard several

And there are mixed feelings, at best. People still seem impressed by his bat speed (though it concerns me that he hasn’t translated that into the ability to actually hit), but the foot speed has really dissipated. I read one scouting report that almost went as far to say he’s not even a prospect anymore, while I’ve seen some others that say he’s still above average for his age, but I haven’t seen a glowing report in a very long time.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 20, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions

And granted

Not all of them have been from professional scouts. But a lot of folks on MiLB have seen him and given their opinions, and there have been a few more professional scouting reports as well.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 20, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions

ok, but names? or reliable sources?

also, even if his range/footwork moves him to 2B, i’m ok with rickie weeks 2.0

by daveh33 on Dec 20, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

That seems like the best case scenario at this point

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 20, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions

What kind of performance in AA do you think would bring him back to top 50 status?

Would .275/.350/.450 do it?

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 20, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think it will be as much stats as it will be people getting a chance to see him

I’m not sure but for some reason it seems like nobody has watched him play. So we will get to find out more about his skill set and how he looks on the field. It is hard when a 20 yr old in A+ ball is viewed and evaluated based on stats and seemingly 2 or 3 people watching him play in 1 or 2 games. I imagine more “experts” will see him play in AA or at least have video on him.

by Dbullsfan on Dec 20, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions

How do you guys know that AA is a guarantee for him?

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Dec 20, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions

he had a worse year in 09 and he got promoted

by daveh33 on Dec 20, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions

Better in what else than OBP?

It was better yes, but it still wasn’t that good for a prospect with his tools. I just think it wouldn’t hurt for him to repeat the level.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Dec 21, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions

there really isn't anyone blocking him and I don't see why they wouldn't want to keep him moving up

by Dbullsfan on Dec 21, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

You guys talk about how they never rush pitching prospects

Well the same should be said for Beckham. I think they would be somewhat rushing him if they put him in AA next season from the start.Besides one month(July), he didn’t exactly dominate A+. Usually when our pitchers go one level at a time, they proved they could beat the level before they were promoted. And you could find someone to man Short in AA. Figueroa played there in college and there are always minor league FAs.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Dec 21, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

I think they evaluate prospects and where they'll play based on a lot more than just statistics.

If he hit league average in A and A+, then he should be ready for AA. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did either, but I think it will be based on things other than filling SS at AA or his batting numbers from A+.

by rglass44 on Dec 21, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions

The not blocking Figueroa point is a good one

if they want Figueroa to try and work on manning short (which I imagine they do with uncertainty, warranted or not, about Beckham’s defense.) then he will probably be doing it in AA I’d imagine. The real question for me is what they do with Bortnick. AA is more age-appropriate for him, but he hasn’t really gone through high A, and if he does stay in A+ ball, do they hurt his defensive development (he should be able to stick at SS) by playing him at 2B and ocassionally in the OF? I think Beckham is third on the list of guys going to AA for the organization behind both Figueroa and Bortnick not because he isn’t ready, but because it gives him an opportunity to play short every day. Of course, there is also Shawn O’Malley to throw a wrench into everything, and he most likely isn’t moving down. Just too many AA-ready SS psuedo-prospects (in the case of O’Malley) to justify moving Beckham along rapidly.

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 21, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

Bortnick was exclusively a 2B pretty much last year, so I'd assume he stays there.

by rglass44 on Dec 21, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

It's not that big of deal.

Although he gave them both a C+. He calls Anderson a bench player. The real key, and the reason why Anderson is even on there, has to be the fact that he probably breaks camp with the team, and if not, at least contributes next year. He says to give Becks one more year, but it’s getting to the point where we need to stop living by scouting reports that came out prior to the draft. His stock has falling hard, and if he wasn’t a number one, he wouldn’t even be on this list.

by ballsdeep187 on Dec 20, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

I know there is upside involved in valuing prospects

but I think there has to be something said about Anderson being a 4th OF/1B. There is a good chance that he gets 100 AB’s this year and what are the chances that most of the prospects ranked 10 on get that much ML time? I think he has Beckham way to low and he should definitely get that experience.

by Dbullsfan on Dec 20, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions