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Daily News and Notes: More Bullpen Problems and Drugs

Another day of the off-season, another bullpen problem for Andrew Friedman to deal with.  Marc Topkin over at the St. Pete Times is reporting that JP Howell's recovery isn't going as swimmingly as many of us had hoped.  I think the optimistic consensus around these parts was that JP would be back to Chiller form come the beginning of the season.  Most hoped he would quickly step back into the late-inning specialist role giving the Rays at least one key reliable cog to work with out of the pen as they look to rebuild the group.

Friedman didn't paint the rosiest picture when updating JP's health:

"He's been incredibly diligent in the rehab process, he is as motivated as he can be to get back, and I think one thing all of us have learned about J.P. is to not bet against him, but it's going to be difficult," Friedman said. "It's going to be something that's hard to predict until he gets back on the mound and starts throwing pitches. I would definitely anticipate him missing some time, but I think it's hard to say whether that's coming back in May or July."

Star-divide

It's always tough to predict how a player will bounce back from injury, especially something that sidelines a player for nearly a year.  Unfortunately, I still have Will Carroll's old quote regarding pitchers and torn labrums in the back of my head, "If pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they'd be destroyed."  I don't want to go overboard on this report, but from someone who was a Giants fan, it's not fun thinking of what happened to Jason Schmidt and Robb Nenn.

As Topkin reports, Howell thinks his missed time will be limited.  I'm hoping he's right.

Yesterday, Matt Eddy of Baseball America tweeted that the Blue Jays have signed Winston Abreu.  Details are scarce on this deal, but assuming he's right, then we have another blow to the bullpen effort.  While Abreu has only had limited time in the Majors recently (6 innings in 2009), he dominated AAA over the past two seasons.

In 55.1 innings last year Abreu posted a 2.28 ERA with a 13.3 K/9 and 3.9 K/BB ratios.  While one has to be skeptical of why a 33 yo with swing-and-miss stuff has still been floating around the minors, your guess is as good as mine.  I can attest, as someone who has seen him pitch on numerous occasions over the past two years, that I'd be happy with him has my 4th man out of the pen.  I was expecting to see him in 2011 with the Rays in that role, but it looks like that's not the case.

One other story that caught my attention was this one.   You might of noticed the blurb in Topkin's piece, and I'm guessing that today it will be the case on a variety of outlets.  But I don't understand how people can read that MLB granted 110 total therapeutic drug use exemptions with 105 being for treatment of ADD, and that 13 of the 15 positive tests for stimulants were for Adderall (meaning these 13 were not granted exemptions) and not think something fishy is going on.  My quick back of the envelope calc comes up with 1280 MLB players (just assuming that everyone on the 40 man roster sees time in the majors, so this should be high).  With 118 known users of Adderall, that is 9.2% of MLBers.  According to the National Institute of Mental Health, 4.1% of adults between the ages of 18-44 are affected by ADHD (of which I'm suspecting much less than that are actually seeking treatment). 

So it appears the fans aren't the only ones who have trouble staying focused through an MLB entire game.

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What is R/A?

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 2, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

R/A!!!

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Damn

that dude looks way to happy.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 2, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Reach Around

Registered trademark of Sandy Kazmir.

by firemangreg on Dec 2, 2010 9:35 AM EST reply actions  

R/A to Sandy Kaz!@!

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 2, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice shooting last night, you creep a bit too much for my taste, but I'm sure it's just getting familiar

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

What game?

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club.

by staplemaniac on Dec 2, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Game's pretty tight

if you’re on XBL hit me up

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club.

by staplemaniac on Dec 2, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't have a big issue with the amphetamine issue

If you want to know why there was a decline in offense across both leagues, I’d look more to that than any perceived advantage that steroids might provide. It’s a long season and getting up is a good way to get over the bumps and bruises and lack of motivation. I honestly wish I had some Adderall 12 hour time release pills right now, I’d get a lot more shit done.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

I think amphetamines help position players a bit more than SPs who pitch once a week.

Unless of course they lose focus on the mound (and then they’re seemingly justified).

by rglass44 on Dec 2, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Labrum quote -- update
August 9, 2008, 01:04 PM ET
Putting the "Death Sentence" to Death


by Will Carroll, Baseball Prospectus

A couple years back, I wrote an article for Slate Magazine in which I said that the labrum tear was the worst injury a pitcher could face. I never called it a "death sentence" (though I would have thought I had before re-reading it) though I wouldn’t argue with that characterization. It’s probably my most quoted work and I’m still proud of it.

But it’s obsolete.

The article from May of 2004 discussed the situation as it existed then, not as it exists now. While a torn labrum isn’t good now, medical science has made huge leaps in fixing this issue. Again, it’s not good to have a torn or even a frayed labrum, but to use a 2004 article to explain it just doesn’t do the situation justice. Things have changed too significantly.

by Jason Collette on Dec 2, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

for the record

I’ve had the surgery JP has had, 2×.

I had it in my head he wouldn’t be back until June since his surgery was 5/19/10. The biggest thing is getting the flexibility back in the joint as much as possible because it will never be 100% again. I cannot even reach behind my back with that arm to put my belt on these days.

by Jason Collette on Dec 2, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Damn, when was the second surgery?

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

We can point to Benoit as a recent example of that working out pretty well and we'll get the upcoming season to get an idea of what to expect from Howell down the road

I don’t expect Pizzle to be a clone of Benoit, but their circumstances are exactly the same and I would probably expect him to be treated the same way if/when he does come back near full capacity, i.e. no more working more than an inning and kid-gloves treatment on back to back days.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

And it looks like Benoit had about 15 months to recuperate from his surgery getting it 1/27/09 and not working until ST, lightly, then his rehab in the minors for a month.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Which brings us all to the question of why J.P. didn't have the surgery at the end of 2009 so that he would be ready to go for 2011

Perhaps they thought rest was all he needed, but once they realized that he didn’t have the same strength, then January 2010 would have sufficed and he’d be on the same schedule as Benoit albeit a year later. I think this is why Maddon and company were most upset with J.P. last year.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

While labrum surgery isn't a death sentence, it still sucks

Before both of my surgeries, we tried PT to strengthen the muscles around the shoulder and such but it just would not work out. If I threw any ball with any kind of effort, my arm would go numb all the way to my fingertips. If I threw a softball, it felt like getting stabbed in the shoulder; the pain was more tolerable throwing a football because if the different throwing mechanics.

by Jason Collette on Dec 2, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I still throw incredibly hard no matter what it is, I almost cut a tree down with snowballs yesterday

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

He was fucking out

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

That would be great

In my limited searching there is so much more info (and test cases) on Tommy John and rotator cuffs.

by Mulva on Dec 2, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't Benoit have a rotator cuff issue, not a labrum?

There is a huge difference between the two.

Bedard is the only pitcher that comes to mind with recent labrum issues… I had hoped to come up with a handful of recent examples and see how long they were out and how effective they were in their first year back, but haven’t had time yet.

by Mulva on Dec 2, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

You're right, my bad

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Labrum?

Damn near killed ’em

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Dec 2, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What an original thought. Certainly not the title of the Will Carroll article originally linked to.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Clemens, Schilling, Chris Carpenter

recent-ish success stories. Much more the exception than the rule, though.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Dec 2, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

No JP, Sori, Benoit, Balfour, Choate, Wheels and probably Cormier

Add to that the retirement of Shouse , Abreu signing with Jays and it looks like Sonny and McGee and hope for lots of CG

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Dec 2, 2010 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

Or we could find the next Benoit, Balfour, Choate, Wheels, and Cormier and get Howell back around mid-season

It shouldn’t be hard to find a guy coming off injury or has a left arm, though finding someone married to family of the broadcaster could be a bit difficult. There’s a dozen free agents that could be had on the cheap looking to reclaim former glory and get a bigger contract next year. Bullpens are not that hard to build.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

They're pretty damn hard to build

I don’t think you’re giving Friedman enough credit. If they weren’t hard to build, most teams would have good bullpens, but they don’t. Friedman just happens to be very good at it.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why I don't view it as that difficult. They know what they're looking for and they go out and get it.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL@Shouse

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 2, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Not new, but nice to see a member of the local media taking a rational view of the upcoming season

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/tampa-bay-rays-may-be-better-off-punting-on-2011-building-for-future/1137659

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

Funny that Andrew talks about JP one day before arbitration decisions have to be made

Any chance the Rays non-tender JP to save the 2.5 million probably owed him. Maybe Andrew was trying to scare off other teams who might be interested in Howell. Perhaps Andrew is attempting to sign JP for fewer dollars.

by rickrays on Dec 2, 2010 10:15 AM EST reply actions  

GDJYB!!!!!!!!

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 2, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

The classic comment from Friedman was

if he can’t get the bullpen the way he would like it, then he’ll try to compensate in another area, and make that stronger to still try to strengthen the team overall. One way or another we will have a good team next year, money be damned.

by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 2, 2010 10:33 AM EST reply actions  

Assuming he's not taken in Rule 5

What are the chances that Aneury Rodriguez ends up in the pen at the start of the season? Also, considering he actually WAS added to the 40-man roster, I expect Dane de la Rosa to get a long, hard look. He’s not on prospect radars because he was a 27 year old in AA, but he actually had a damn fine season (9+ K/9, 3-1 K/BB ratio, less than a hit per inning, ERA under 2).

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2010 4:22 PM EST reply actions  

Lot of SwStk too

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 2, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Jenks time?


Now would be a grst time to offer Bobby Jenks a 2 year deal at 5 million per. Fits the budget, Rays get a hard throwing closer, and the have him secured for at least the next two seasons. Then they can start rebuilding a bullpen leading up to him.

by budman3 on Dec 3, 2010 8:00 AM EST reply actions  

Why would he sign for that? He was released by ChiSox for money reasons, not talent. He should be a hotly chased commodity since

he’s one of the few guys that all you have to do is throw money at him.d

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 3, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

 There are only a few teams that are in need of a closer for next season…the Orioles, Rays, Tigers, Angels, Braves, Phillies, and Astros. Of those only the Braves and Rays could be considered contenders and could guarantee the spot. Angels will probably sign Sori.
If he’s looking for a good team and be given the closer role, the Rays and 2 years and 10 million might be to his liking.

by budman3 on Dec 3, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions  

Umm, on paper, the Tigers, Angels, and Phillies are probably better contenders than the Rays, just because they didn't make a ton of noise last year doesn't mean they're due to repeat the failures.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 4, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

They have closers

Phils(Lidge), Tigers(Velvarde) and Angels(Probably Soriano) are all set for closers. Rays and Braves do not. That’s my point. If Jenks wants a guaranteed closer role those may be the only team looking. With Gonzo going to the Sox(and perhaps Crawford or Beltre) and Lee and or Werth or Crawford going to the Yanks, the Rays are looking weaker and weaker. The only chance they have as far as I can see is to get a shutdown bullpen to be able to compete next season. Their starting rotation, defense and offense will be good enough to win 85 games, IMO. But without a shutdown pen and more importantly a stud closer, you can forget the 8-10 games they will need to make the play-offs. There is money available to sign either a one year or two year deal for a closer this winter. With Gonzo gone to the Red Sox, Bell doesn’t look like an option anymore from the Padres. Jenks,, IMO, is almost a must have at this point if Friedman expects the Rays to be competitive and to not lose
 any more fans from showing up. And make no mistake, that is key right now for this franchise.

by budman3 on Dec 4, 2010 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

Revamp the pen


I would sign Jenks for at least one year at 5-6 million(let him pitch for a big FA deal).
I would sign RH’er Joel Peralta as the 8th inning guy(one year at 2-3 million)..35 but had huge KO/BB numbers. the Benoit for 2011.
Trade Bartlett to the Reds for lefty Billy Bray..27 years old and under control for 3 years..very good v. lefties and decent against righties with good control
Bring back Eckstrom and Wheeler(resign for 2 million)
Keep McGee around as the second lefty who gains more experience as a 1-2 inning guy and possible future closer.
Give Cory Wade a chance to regain form
Add Howell if he gets healthy by May/June

by budman3 on Dec 4, 2010 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

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